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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Vitamin D, Please

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Author Topic: Vitamin D, Please
nonna05
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Hi ! Can anybody fill me in on the vitamin D ordeal????
Told am low on regular test. But on Hydroxy am little high.. One doc says if 2nd is high it means kidney's are turning D into a basic form of steroid ... So that's way bad for these infections.


Other doc's say take D ,one is 50,000 units 1-2 x's a week, other is 10,000 OTC, drops per day..
[confused] [confused] [dizzy] Nonna

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miles2go
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All I can tell you is that my vitamin D level was very low (people with lyme have low Vit D levels) and my doctor gave me 50,000 I,U Vitamin D once a week for six weeks and then OTC 1,000 I.U. Vitamin D (1 per day) from then on. It really improved my anxiety for one thing.
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nonna05
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Good to know. Have been more anxious lately. Probably a symptom, side effect , and who wouldn't be after reading a 100 posting's. [spinning smile]
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Dave6002
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Vitamin D actually a hormone
SCIENCENETWORK WA
THURSDAY, 23 APRIL 2009


Expensive supplements and sun exposure
may actually be counterproductive to our
body's vitamin D production.
Image: iStockphoto
According to Professor Trevor G. Marshall, the increase of vitamin D in our modern diets is based on a common belief he states is a misconception with potential consequences.
Prof Marshall from the School of Biological Sciences and Biotechnology at Murdoch University in Western Australia has recently confirmed several astounding aspects about vitamin D that will surprise you.
What we have confirmed with our recent research says the Professor, is that vitamin D isnt a vitamin at all, its a hormone that is made by the body itself.
Prof Marshall goes on to explode another long held belief about this secosteriod previously known as vitamin D.
You dont have to ingest any vitamin D in order to be perfectly healthy.
So no more need for expensive supplements, no more basking in the sun to put us in a better mood? And what about the thinking that suggests vitamin D is vital in the production of serotonin, an essential element linked to helping maintaining normal brain chemical function?
What weve shown is that all forms of vitamin D from outside the body are counterproductive to the bodys own ability to regulate its own internal production.
This conclusion doesnt mean a dramatic change of lifestyle where we must all suddenly shun the sun but Prof Marshall does acknowledge that people have only been at risk of vitamin D overexposure from about the same time as when bikinis made an appearance.
Historically the amount of sunshine which people have typically been getting was adequate, certainly up until the mid twentieth century when we started to do silly things like sunbathing and wearing bikinis, and before that time people were already sourcing enough vitamin D from everyday foods like fish, mushrooms and eggs.
It seems modern living has much to answer for according to Prof Marshall, who also points out that society quickly exacerbated the vitamin D issue by supplementing the food chain and encouraging people to subscribe to a vitamin regime in their pursuit of a healthier lifestyle.
At this point says Prof Marshall, our bodies hormonal control system was being overwhelmed by the amount of external vitamin D.
So what are the risks of too much vitamin D? Prof Marshalls concern is that after decades of vitamin D consumption from external sources, we have become even more susceptible to chronic diseases. Our bodies attempt to suppress the excess levels of vitamin D has been making our immune systems vulnerable.

The good news counters Prof Marshall, is that we now understand far more closely what causes chronic disease and can work to produce a therapy.

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James1979
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quote:
You dont have to ingest any vitamin D in order to be perfectly healthy.
So no more need for expensive supplements, no more basking in the sun to put us in a better mood?

This is absolutely ridiculous. On a scale of 1 to 10, I put it at a 10 for stupidity.

If you don't get enough sun exposure, or don't take enough D supplements, your serum levels will drop. When they are low, your immune system is weakened.

When you start taking supplements, the numbers go up and your immune system is strengthened. These are simple things here.

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James1979
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Forgot to mention:
Dave - forgive me for my harsh reply. My "harshness" was not directed towards you. I was just saying that I disagree with the article. I hope I didn't offend you.

But I do agree with what you said that vitamin D is a hormone.

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FYRECRACKER
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I tested at a 40 for Vit D levels a few months ago

Last test was at 49, I was taking in 16,000 IU's a day of a liquid form.

I'm bumping up to 20,000 IU's per day. It takes a long time to build your D levels up again, especially when you're body is simultaneously using up what you take it.

9 points in 3-4 months isn't bad.

--------------------
www.mylymechronicle.wordpress.com

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by James1979:
quote:
You dont have to ingest any vitamin D in order to be perfectly healthy.
So no more need for expensive supplements, no more basking in the sun to put us in a better mood?

This is absolutely ridiculous. On a scale of 1 to 10, I put it at a 10 for stupidity.

-
Consider the source: Trevor Marshall

--------------------
 -

--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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t9im
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Hi nonna:

Without a doubt the expert on Vitamin D3 is Dr. Hollick in Boston.

I started my research after my daugher was diagnosed with CFS from a strep infection (yes the IDSA was a putz but I didn't know that at the time).

My research on Chronic Fatigue and reading Hollicks work with the elderly - D3 and how their fatigue aleviated with D3 supplementaton started my path to finding out my daugher had Lyme (and BABS), not CFS.

Note Vitamin D3 (not D2) is created from the suns rays hitting our skin it goes into the blood to the liver and then the liver converts it to hydroxy 125 (this is the "hormone"). It is the hydroxy 125 levels measured in the blood.

Levels under 30 are deficient and while 50 is what most recommend it actually should be in the 80 to 100 range (Dr Davis of the Heart Scan and Track your Plaque Blog I think is at 60 to 70).

Once we reach 40 yrs. old our bodies ablility to produce D3 decreases considerably. Then if you live above North Carolina then you won't produce any during the fall - spring.

From memory, 3/4 of Americans are deficient (under 30).

The Marshall protocol indicates to not take D3 with the premise it helps the lyme spirochete produce.

I don't agree with this, not so much that it may help the spirochete (no one really knows) but it is proven scientifically hydroxy 125 is beneficial for your immune antibody production (besides its other benefits with bone, prostate, fatigue, etc..

When our daugher was first tested she was under 20.

I supplement with 5,000 units a day (gel). It needs to be gel or liquid as the powder pill is not digested into our system. We supplement our daugher at 4 to 6 thousand units a day (my wife is afraid of giving too much).

It is not the amount of units one takes but ones ablility to convert the D3 to hydroxy 125 (some people can be 2,000 units some can be 15,000 units / day, we are all different).

You don't want to have your levels exceed 120, it can be toxic and some consider this too high). All study positve results are from levels over 60.

The medical recommended supplement is now 600 units / day (up from 200 then to 400). IMO this is way too low.

Some links for your reading pleasure.

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/how-much-vitamin-d-should-i-take.html

http://heartscanblog.blogspot.com/2008/08/vitamin-d-and-hdl.html

http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/

Hope this helps.

--------------------
Tim

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t9im
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HI nonna:

On being anxious. This can be related to thyroid levels so be sure to have it checked.

Sleep anxiety and anxious were symptoms my daugher had (yes after 2+ years these have been gone for a few months). We now fear a set back.

--------------------
Tim

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Dave6002
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James, no problem. I don't agree with him either, but just wanted to point out that vitamin D is a hormone and is different from other vitamins in this sense.
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Dave6002
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Vitamin D and cancer
The connection between vitamin D deficiency and cancer was first made by Drs. Frank and Cedric Garland of the University of California, San Diego. After finding that the incidence of colon cancer was nearly three times higher in New York than in New Mexico, the Garland brothers hypothesized lack of sun exposure (resulting in a lack of vitamin D) played a role. They published their hypothesis, entitled Do sunlight and vitamin D reduce the likelihood of colon cancer? in 1980 in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

In 2006, the journal re-published the paper in its original form, followed by a set of commentaries on the importance of this seminal paper.

Top 10 facts about vitamin D and cancer

Many studies have found solar ultraviolet-B (UVB) vitamin D associated with reduced risk of breast, colon, and rectal cancer.

A randomized controlled trial with 1100 IU/day vitamin D3 plus 1450 mg/day calcium found a 77% reduction in all-cancer incidence.

Geographical studies have found reduced risk in mortality rates for 15-20 types of cancer in regions of higher solar UVB doses.

Observational studies found risk of breast, colon, and rectal cancer falls as vitamin D blood levels rise to over 40 ng/mL (100 nmol/L).

Mechanisms have been proposed to explain how vitamin D acts to reduce the risk of cancer from starting, growing, and spreading.

Those who develop nonmelanoma skin cancer may have produced enough vitamin D to reduce their risk of internal cancers.

Those with higher vitamin D blood levels at time of cancer diagnosis had nearly twice the survival rate of those with the lowest levels.

African-Americans have an increased risk of cancer in part due to lower vitamin D blood levels because of darker skin.

Higher UVB exposure early in life has been found associated with reduced risk of breast and prostate cancer.

Those diagnosed with breast, colon and prostate cancer in summer in Norway had higher survival rates than those diagnosed in winter.
Page last edited: 21 September 2011

*These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. The products and inform

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James1979
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Since we're talking about vitamin D and the benefits from the sun, please note that most sunscreens are carcinogenic.
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DoctorLuddite
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To clarify, our endogenous vitamin D is produced when cholesterol in our subcutaneous fat undergoes a chemical conformation change when said cholesterol is irradiated by light in the ultraviolet range, UV-B. The new molecule is known as cholecalciferol (calcium bearer of bile). Hindrances to this would include sunscreen, melanin (nature's sunscreen), and anything that inhibits UV-B from reaching the skin (clouds, air pollution).

Cholecalciferol will then travel into the blood, via the lymphatic circulation, and once in the blood, it will make its way to the liver, where one of the liver's detox enzymes will hydroxylate it into 25 hydroxy cholecalciferol, or calcidiol. Any impairement in liver function can disturb this process, so avoid toxic agents, like alcohol, heavy metals, new to nature molecules (lots of these in hair dye chemicals and other cosmetics), and eat lots of fiber and drink lots of water...

This change makes it slightly more water soluble, and this form is the one that should be tested for to determine ones vitamin D status.

The 25 hydroxy form is metabolically active, but the kidneys have an enzyme that will convert it into an even more potent form, known as 1,25 dihydroxy cholecalciferol, or calcitriol. Any impairment in kidney function can slow this process down, so once again, drink lots of water to help the kidneys carry away waste products.

There is a receptor in the cytoplasm of most cells in the body that calcitriol will bind to, and when this happens, the vitamin D-receptor complex moves into the nucleus of the cell and stimulates DNA transcription.

Each cell of our millions of cells has one or many duties to perform, duties which depend on DNA transcription for the production of proteins or other compounds (like serotonin, a neurotransmitter, cathelicidin, a potent antibacterial and antiviral compound produced by certain immune cells, or many other things) and they generally do that job on schedule and under budget when vitamin D is present in sufficient quantity.

There are exceptions to this general rule. If there is rampant inflammation in the body, macrophages, a specialized type of white blood cell, actually can produce the enzyme that converts calcidiol into calcitriol, and this will cause immune cells in the immediate vicinity to become more active, produce more calcitriol, and attract more immune cells. On testing, the calcidiol will be low, and remain so in the face of supplementation, and calcitriol will be abnormally high.

In this situation, and others like it (ex: Sarcoidosis) calcidiol will be consumed as fast as it is produced, and converted into calcitriol, which will over activate certain parts of the immune system. This is rare, but such individuals may benefit from the Marshall perspective.

The scourge of the 19th century, tuberculosis, was an example of this. TB was a devastating disease in the sense that the mycobacterium tuberculi could invade any tissue in the body and wreak havoc, but one of the classic findings in tissues was the presence of caseating granulomas around the TB organisms.


The organism stimulated an immune reaction, macrophages moved in to surround the organisms, but the consumption of vitamin D in this process left insufficient quantities to produce cathelicidin, and the mycobacterium would not be killed, but more macrophages would be attracted to the area, and the granulomas would get larger.

If one wanted to be cured or to feel better, they would be more likely to do so if they moved to an area with a sunnier climate. Not all who did so got better. Vitamin D was not discovered until the 1920's, but its effects on the body did not change due to its discovery.

Vitamin D supplementation should be considered by anyone with immune stress or immune dysfunction, and the response to supplementation monitored carefully by a thoughtful physician, a rare entity in todays industrialized medicine.

The 50,000 IU prescription vitamin D is not D3, and should not be used unless one is simultaneously supplementing with lots of D3.

D3 (cholecalciferol) is an oil in it's natural state, so it should be ingested as an oil. Inflammation of the intestinal lining will impair the absorption of vitamin D, and people with this problem should consider the limited use of tanning beds.

With each decade of our lives, our skin gets thinner as the subcutaneous fat diminishes; the precursor to vitamin D is in this fat, hence we make less vitamin D per minute at age 40 than at 30, at age 50 than at 40, and so on, so older people need more oral vitamin D than younger ones.

Magnesium is present in the vitamin D receptor, and should be added to the protocol if testing reveals a very low vitamin D, or if muscle cramps or constipation develop in the process.

If your skin is starting to get red, go in the shade, don't put sunscreen on. We will see more skin cancers in the coming decade in avid sunscreen users who will regret not using enough when they should kick themselves for using too much.

[ 10-03-2011, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]

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METALLlC BLUE
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Vitamin D makes me feel sick, and so does Fish Oil. I've tried different brands and done each independently. All of them cause the same worsening of symptoms which never gets better, even 6-12 months later.

--------------------
I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.

E-mail: sbauzys@comcast.net

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James1979
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DoctorLuddite: [bow] WE'RE NOT WORTHY!! [bow]
[Smile]
Thanks for the great info.

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