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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Mild Hyperbaric Treatment (Page 48)

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Author Topic: Mild Hyperbaric Treatment
Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
quote:

Have you tried NAC on an empty stomach a couple hours before a Coffee enema?

No, I have tried NAC years ago alone but not with a CE. I’m kinda afraid to take things on an empty stomach though. It doesn’t like that. I end up really nauseated. [/QB]
I take it on an empty stomach because it absorbs better ( I think) that way
NAC is a precurser to glutathione and combining that with a CE (I find) increases glutathione
I feel pretty good when I do this and it helps with dieoff
I am not sure how that would work using NAC with food and then doing the CE
Maybe someone else can comment on this

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Kaibyrd
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My naturopath had me on glutathione before I started mHBOT but she went out of business. I still have some but was afraid to finish it. NAC is better?

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KB

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carbokitty
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KB-
Glutathione is not very shelf stable and if you’ve had it awhile, it’s probably even less effective. NAC is shelf stable and therefore is thought ultimately to work better. It is converted to glutathione in the body and is not affected by exposure.

Hope this helps.

Carbokitty

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks Carbokitty!

What is it we’re not supposed to take while treating with mHBOT?

--------------------
KB

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Digby
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Kaibyrd...You basically want to avoid strong antioxidants. The thinking is that because one of the beneficial actions of mHBOT is to upregulate endogenous antioxidant activity within the cell, taking antioxidants could blunt that response.
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Kaibyrd
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Thanks Digby!
And Hominahomina for bringing this up and your advice!

--------------------
KB

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Kaibyrd
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One more question; avoid strong antioxidants in supplemental form, right?

Is there any food we should be careful of, in that regard?

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KB

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
My naturopath had me on glutathione before I started mHBOT but she went out of business. I still have some but was afraid to finish it. NAC is better?

Like Carbokitty said
NAC is a precursor to glutathione
When I take it on an empty stomach it absorbs well I think Then I do a CE and feel quite good for an hour or two because I think it raises up glutathione
quite a bit. It does not last very long unfortunately but it may give you relief from the herx.

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Phoiph
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Kaibyrd,

It is actually best to get your antioxidants (and other nutrients) from whole foods as much as possible.

Antioxidants (especially high doses) taken in isolation don't always have the same effects.

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks y’all!

--------------------
KB

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Digby
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I just want to clarify, by strong antioxidants I mean, supplemental glutathione, Super Oxide Dismutase, Catalase, CoQ10, Pycnogenol, Vitamin E, etc.

I agree with Phoiph...best way to get antioxidants is through food and mHBOT. I do still use them for occasional, specific, purposes like fighting off a virus. Of course then I will use high doses which in the case of Vitamin C becomes an oxidant.

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Digby:
Kaibyrd...You basically want to avoid strong antioxidants. The thinking is that because one of the beneficial actions of mHBOT is to upregulate endogenous antioxidant activity within the cell, taking antioxidants could blunt that response.

That is interesting Can you share some reference material on that Thanks
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Digby
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Hominahomina, Can you be more specific, please?
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Phoiph
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Homina~

Oxidative stress is fundamental to hyperbaric oxygen therapy, by Stephen R. Thom. Journal of Applied Physi9ology 106:988-995, 2009: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2660252/

Achieving the Balance between ROS and Antioxidants: When to Use the Synthetic Antioxidants: http://www.hindawi.com/journals/omcl/2013/956792/

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Hominahomina
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Okay specifically Digby

Something That states taking synthetic antioxidants like NAC can blunt increased antioxidants produced by mHBOT

I read over the articles that phoiph supplied Neither of them as far as I can see addressed that

Thanks

[ 02-20-2020, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Hominahomina ]

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Phoiph
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Homina,

You are probably not going to have the luxury of finding specific studies, but you can connect the dots and make reasonable deductions from the information in the above articles.

Let us know if you find anything more specific!

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Kaibyrd
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So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

--------------------
KB

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

I don't think anyone here can answer those questions with authority we can share our research and personal experience but we are not Doctors versed in mHBOT as far as I know

(If there are any here please comment)

Do you have a Doctor you can talk to about these matters?
Those are good question so I am going to try to talk to a couple Doctors who consult at the Hbot center where I started. I will report back if I find anything out

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Kaibyrd
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Thank you Homina. I’m not really looking for an authoritative answer, just someone who can help me interpret these studies. I literally cannot read them and absorb what I’m reading any more. I used to be able to but no more.

No I don’t have a doctor to talk to, not really. I have a good doctor but I only get to see her for a few minutes every 4 to 6 months. My next appointment isn’t until May. If I want a Lyme literate doctor, I have to pay $500 a visit and they want me there once a month. I’ve tried 2 in my area. They did more harm than good.

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Kaibird,

I understand!

Digby is very knowledgeable re supplements. I'm sure he will help answer your questions.

I personally believe in keeping it as simple as possible, and getting as many nutrients as you can through whole foods, especially when you are trying to heal your gut.

I was unable to take supplements when I began mHBOT, and I believe it was for the best. I could only handle 5 or 6 foods, how could I expect to handle concentrated pills?

IMO, many supplements are too complex for the body to process when the digestive system is impaired.

I do believe a liquid magnesium is helpful.

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Kaibyrd
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Thank you Phoiph!

Do you know of a liquid magnesium that has several different types (malate, citrate, ascorbate, etc)? That’s what I take in capsule since some types alone upset my tummy. I must take these supplements I listed above just to help me get through my day. Without them or something similar, my issues get worse so I really hope they aren’t interfering with what the mHBOT is supposed to be doing. I’ve worried about them since I read the beginning of this thread but I couldn’t find an answer and don’t know what else to do without them.

My diet is pretty varied and I don’t find much that bothers me food wise except processed foods and sugar which can make my joint pain really bad. I stick to organic as much as I can which is a good bit except for those days when cooking is just beyond me. Some days, getting out of bed is beyond what I’m capable of. 🤷🏻‍♀️

--------------------
KB

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carbokitty
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Hi all~

Does anyone here track their heart rate? I have a fitbit that I wear. I found that last year and the year before when I was in the moldy condo that my heart rate went up. I could feel it and I could see the difference in numbers on the tracker.

I recently started having a back-slide-an increase in looser stools. After a particularly bad morning like I haven't had since late October, I went back over my spreadsheet where I track my dives, sleep, stools, changes in supplements and food and I was really surprised that there was a subtle but obvious decline in my stools when I started using my chamber in our current airbnb. For 2 weeks prior, I went to a clinic 4 days a week and before that, I'd had surgery/anesthesia and before that the car accident and before that driving for 8-9 days and no diving. Throughout it all and until diving in my own chamber again at this new location, my stools were formed. Hmmm.

Then I started looking at the info collected by the fitbit and I noticed that my heart rate had started to climb again, also after using my chamber here. One of the nice benefits I enjoyed from diving was a slowing of my heart rate and my heart rate had been pretty stable for quite a few months.

So now I'm worried that there is something ambient that I'm breathing in in this airbnb even though I/we can't smell any mold. I'm not really having other symptoms (sleep problems, increased urination). I am having some mild depression but I've attributed that to the accident, being on crutches, not being able to do the things I had planned and dreamed of doing while I am here. I am also not getting exercise and that always helps my mood.

I skipped diving the day before yesterday. Yesterday and today I dove without the mask on but with O2 coming into the chamber. I have now just ordered a new mask to see if maybe something has grown in the tubing. Just wondering if anyone else tracks their heart rate and what they experience.

Have a great dive today!

Carbokitty

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Kaibyrd
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Carbokitty,
How long has it been since the surgery? I’m just remembering my last surgeries, it took me months to get my anxiety under control, which affected my entire system; loose stools, heart rate, appetite, etc. The anesthesia was the trigger both times. Just a thought.

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Kaibyrd~

I add ReMag magnesium and Concentrace minerals to my filtered drinking water. They are both liquid.

You must follow the directions and work up gradually to the desired amount.

Please remind me, are you are off of gluten and grains? Do you do bone broth regularly? Are you eating good fats?

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dbpei
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I know we have had a lot of discussion recently about oxidative stress. The doctor who runs the MBHOT clinic where I was first oriented to it, wants me to take a month off after having done 40 dives. He is going to have me take a urine test to measure either anti-oxidants or some measure of telling whether I need more.

I am willing to do this, but hope by taking a month off, it will not set back any progress I've made. I have read that mild HBOT does not have the same effect as full pressure HBOT with regard to oxidative stress.

Has anyone here had to take time off and resume diving? And if so, did you have to start slow again with regard to duration and the O2 mask?

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
Okay specifically Digby

Something That states taking synthetic antioxidants like NAC can blunt increased antioxidants produced by mHBOT

I read over the articles that phoiph supplied Neither of them as far as I can see addressed that

Thanks

Homina~

The first article illustrates that oxidation (free radicals, or ROS/reactive oxygen species) produced by HBOT is a necessary and beneficial mechanism of the therapy.

The second article discusses how supplemental antioxidants can be ineffective or counterproductive to the oxidation process.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

"...6.2. Increased “Antioxidative Stress”
Inappropriate antioxidative intake may cause increased “antioxidative stress.” Antioxidants can neutralize ROS and decrease oxidative stress; however, this is not always beneficial with respect to the development of a disease and its progression (e.g., cancer) or for delaying aging [32] since antioxidants cannot distinguish among the radicals with a beneficial physiological role and those that cause oxidative damage to biomolecules.
Individuals who overdose antioxidant supplements could enter the status of “antioxidative” stress (Figure 3). If administration of antioxidant supplements decreases the level of free radicals, it may interfere with the immune system to fight bacteria and essential defensive mechanisms for removal of damaged cells, including those that are precancerous and cancerous [84]. Thus, antioxidant supplement overtake may cause harm [35, 36, 56, 85, 86]. When large amounts of antioxidant nutrients are taken, they can also act as prooxidants by increasing oxidative stress [87, 88]. Pro- and antioxidant effects of antioxidants (e.g., vitamin C) are dose dependent, and thus, more is not necessarily better. Our diets typically contain safe levels of vitamins; therefore, high-level antioxidant supplements may upset this important physiological balance between the ROS formation and neutralization."

And...

"...Presently, the use of supplemental antioxidants could be advised only in cases of well-known conditions, where the depletion of antioxidants is known and can be predicted. Daily use of synthetic supplements has not been proven as beneficial, and excessive use may be harmful. Balanced food still seems to be the best option..."

I hope this helps clarify my point.

Also, as Digby has suggested, you can research "Hormesis". This may further illustrate this process.

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Phoiph
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dbpei~

The link to the article above also discusses the problems associated with testing oxidative and antioxidative status.

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Phoiph
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dbpei~

Speaking from my own experience, if I had taken a month off after only 40 dives, I would have had to start over.

Consistency was key for me. I dove daily for 2.5 years (except when I had a flu or fever), and cut back after that time.

Also, some sources suggest that it takes at least 80 sessions before positive changes start to become permanent.

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dbpei
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Thank you, Phoiph. Those articles give me pause about adding any more antioxidants to my regimen! My gut feeling is that I should not stop also. I have to decide what to do. I feel some improvement already and hate to disrupt things.
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Digby
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quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
Okay specifically Digby

Something That states taking synthetic antioxidants like NAC can blunt increased antioxidants produced by mHBOT

I read over the articles that phoiph supplied Neither of them as far as I can see addressed that

Thanks

First I want to say that I agree with Phoiph's reply regarding the links she sent.

Unfortunately I can't find a study that specifically addresses your concern, so I have nothing definitive. Here are a couple of studies that may help you to come to a conclusion on this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15147832

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320504002863

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002934380905094

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2610268

My take away is that exogenous antioxidants (AO) do affect the reactive oxygen species (ROS) produced by HBOT at least in high doses. It is also mentioned that endogenous AO work better. We do know that mild HBOT increases ROS and subsequently increases endogenous AO.

So, I would conclude by saying that taking high dose exogenous AO may interfere with the AO upregulation that occurs with mHBOT. You may come to a different conclusion. If so, please share.

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Digby
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

KB, I shouldn't have use the phrase, "strong antioxidants" in my post as that won't help your searching. Perhaps "powerful" or "potent" would be a better search term????

Of the supplements you listed, only Ashwagandha has a lot of antioxidant activity, however I don't know what "PSP" is. You can probably still take the Ashwagandha but perhaps, dose it away from when you dive. Hope that helps.

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carbokitty
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From KB:

Carbokitty,
How long has it been since the surgery? I’m just remembering my last surgeries, it took me months to get my anxiety under control, which affected my entire system; loose stools, heart rate, appetite, etc. The anesthesia was the trigger both times. Just a thought.

It's been 5 weeks since surgery, 6 weeks since the accident. I would have thought the same ~ although if that's the case with me, it's all been a delayed reaction. My stools remained good after the accident, after the surgery and anesthesia and during my taking of ibuprofen to manage the rib pain. It was also all good during the 8 dives I took at a local clinic. My heart rate had started to go back down to what I feel is a comfortable level. As soon as I started in my own chamber again in this rental house, my stools started to get loose and my heart rate started to climb.

I've switched out the pillows I use in the chamber and I dove without the mask on, but O2 streaming into the chamber. I've noticed a bit of improvement, but its only been 2 dives. Time will tell. And then we will pack up and head home on March 16.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am very open to ideas or experiences others have.

Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Digby, I think Kaibyrd's supplement is P-five-P (active form of B-6).

carbokitty,

When I was first becoming ill, my heartrate would soar after eating. I believe it was due to food proteins escaping into my bloodstream via leaky gut.

I am wondering if the anesthesia, surgery, emotional and physical stress from the accident, different living environments, and all the other changes you have experienced lately have put stress on your system, and altered your gut landscape.

It may take awhile for the gut biome to be unbalanced enough to experience symptoms.

Your symptoms could be intermittent because of a forward and back response (i.e., your body gains a little ground, then loses it depending on stressors).

Maybe it is not just one thing (e.g., possible mold), as you also state that you are not experiencing the other symptoms you usually have with mold exposure.

Hopefully getting back to routine and consistency will help. I know that I didn't change anything in my environment when I was recovering (which was not difficult at first, because I was homebound), and then for a long period after I had become well to avoid "rocking the boat".

IMO, It is easy to underestimate how challenging these visible and invisible stressors can be to a body that is healing and trying to establish equilibrium.

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Kaibyrd
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quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
Kaibyrd~

I add ReMag magnesium and Concentrace minerals to my filtered drinking water. They are both liquid.

You must follow the directions and work up gradually to the desired amount.

Please remind me, are you are off of gluten and grains? Do you do bone broth regularly? Are you eating good fats?

Thanks for the recommendation, Phoiph! I’ll look into those products.

I eat good fats but not as much as I used to before menopause.

I’m not completely off grains but I eat mostly sprouted which does still have gluten but it’s much easier to digest. I’ve gone gluten free for months before with no discernible difference.

I get bone broth from my Amish farmer and use it in soups a lot but not every day.

--------------------
KB

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Kaibyrd
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quote:
Originally posted by Digby:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

KB, I shouldn't have use the phrase, "strong antioxidants" in my post as that won't help your searching. Perhaps "powerful" or "potent" would be a better search term????

Of the supplements you listed, only Ashwagandha has a lot of antioxidant activity, however I don't know what "PSP" is. You can probably still take the Ashwagandha but perhaps, dose it away from when you dive. Hope that helps.

Digby, p5p is activated vitamin B6. My Doc put me on it before I started mHBOT and she’s always happy with my blood work now. In my experience, blood work only tells a tiny bit of the story though.

--------------------
KB

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quote:
Originally posted by carbokitty:


It's been 5 weeks since surgery, 6 weeks since the accident. I would have thought the same ~ although if that's the case with me, it's all been a delayed reaction. My stools remained good after the accident, after the surgery and anesthesia and during my taking of ibuprofen to manage the rib pain. It was also all good during the 8 dives I took at a local clinic. My heart rate had started to go back down to what I feel is a comfortable level. As soon as I started in my own chamber again in this rental house, my stools started to get loose and my heart rate started to climb.

I've switched out the pillows I use in the chamber and I dove without the mask on, but O2 streaming into the chamber. I've noticed a bit of improvement, but its only been 2 dives. Time will tell. And then we will pack up and head home on March 16.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am very open to ideas or experiences others have.

Carbokitty

Carbokitty,

I agree with Phoiph above ☝🏻 And I think perhaps all those stressors are just now kicking in.

That’s what I end up having to do when I start feeling bad again is take off the mask.

What are you doing for detox? All those meds (pain and anesthesia) may be still causing issues. They definitely do for me.

--------------------
KB

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Digby
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KB, Oops sorry, I was rushing through and thought it said PSP. My bad.

I don't know of any studies suggesting P5P is contraindicated to take with mHBOT.

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

Kalbyrd
I presented the question about the use of supplemental antioxidants and HBOT to Dr Jason Sonners He has a clinic in New Jersey and uses Hyperbaric Oxygen in his practice and has several years experience with HBOT
I was surprised that he responded at all

https://oxygennj.com/


His response was supplemental antioxidant are not an issue when using mHBOT (mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy)and could be preferable. But the answer could be different when going to high oxygen high pressure (HBOT)

He also said he does phone consults and you can contact him via email and take it from there. He seems like a nice guy and he might help you out with a little expert advice as he helped me

I will send you a private message with my email address. If you send me your email I will forward Dr Sonner's comments and his email

Also Here is a Facebook group on mHBOT
https://www.facebook.com/groups/515147305319202/
I am not sure of how competent the members there are because I just joined but it could be another resource and a place to get a more comprehensive answer to your questions
With non experts like us here and on facebook do your due diligence and vet the responses you get

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Kaibyrd
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quote:
Originally posted by Digby:
KB, Oops sorry, I was rushing through and thought it said PSP. My bad.

I don't know of any studies suggesting P5P is contraindicated to take with mHBOT.

Thank you Digby!!!

--------------------
KB

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Kaibyrd
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quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

Kalbyrd
I presented the question about the use of supplemental antioxidants and HBOT to Dr Jason Sonners He has a clinic in New Jersey and uses Hyperbaric Oxygen in his practice and has several years experience with HBOT
I was surprised that he responded at all

https://oxygennj.com/


His response was supplemental antioxidant are not an issue when using mHBOT (mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy)and could be preferable. But the answer could be different when going to high oxygen high pressure (HBOT)

He also said he does phone consults and you can contact him via email and take it from there. He seems like a nice guy and he might help you out with a little expert advice as he helped me

I will send you a private message with my email address. If you send me your email I will forward Dr Sonner's comments and his email

Also Here is a Facebook group on mHBOT
https://www.facebook.com/groups/515147305319202/
I am not sure of how competent the members there are because I just joined but it could be another resource and a place to get a more comprehensive answer to your questions
With non experts like us here and on facebook do your due diligence and vet the responses you get

Thank Homina!

I’m already a member of the Facebook group. It’s ok but there are so many different issues being treated on there that it’s hard to get advice specific to Lyme.

I will look into this doctor though, thanks!

--------------------
KB

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
So my takeaway from this is to not use NAC and definitely don’t use glutathione. Am I getting it?

I’m sorry, my brain fog has become so bad that I can’t grasp things easily and studies are just a jumble of words for me now. I need a “Dummies’ guide”. 😝

I tried googling “strong antioxidants” but couldn’t get a good list but I’m only taking magnesium (low blood levels), Pharma GABA (helps with anxiety and mood), P5P (doc recommended because I’m low), ashwagandha (for menopause help) and vitamin D. Am I taking anything I shouldn’t be taking?

Kalbyrd
I presented the question about the use of supplemental antioxidants and HBOT to Dr Jason Sonners He has a clinic in New Jersey and uses Hyperbaric Oxygen in his practice and has several years experience with HBOT
I was surprised that he responded at all

https://oxygennj.com/


His response was supplemental antioxidant are not an issue when using mHBOT (mild hyperbaric oxygen therapy)and could be preferable. But the answer could be different when going to high oxygen high pressure (HBOT)

He also said he does phone consults and you can contact him via email and take it from there. He seems like a nice guy and he might help you out with a little expert advice as he helped me

I will send you a private message with my email address. If you send me your email I will forward Dr Sonner's comments and his email

Also Here is a Facebook group on mHBOT
https://www.facebook.com/groups/515147305319202/
I am not sure of how competent the members there are because I just joined but it could be another resource and a place to get a more comprehensive answer to your questions
With non experts like us here and on facebook do your due diligence and vet the responses you get

Thank Homina!

I’m already a member of the Facebook group. It’s ok but there are so many different issues being treated on there that it’s hard to get advice specific to Lyme.

I will look into this doctor though, thanks!

That is a good point
Hope Dr Sonners can help

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Phoiph:
quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
Okay specifically Digby

Something That states taking synthetic antioxidants like NAC can blunt increased antioxidants produced by mHBOT

I read over the articles that phoiph supplied Neither of them as far as I can see addressed that

Thanks

Homina~

The first article illustrates that oxidation (free radicals, or ROS/reactive oxygen species) produced by HBOT is a necessary and beneficial mechanism of the therapy.

The second article discusses how supplemental antioxidants can be ineffective or counterproductive to the oxidation process.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

"...6.2. Increased “Antioxidative Stress”
Inappropriate antioxidative intake may cause increased “antioxidative stress.” Antioxidants can neutralize ROS and decrease oxidative stress; however, this is not always beneficial with respect to the development of a disease and its progression (e.g., cancer) or for delaying aging [32] since antioxidants cannot distinguish among the radicals with a beneficial physiological role and those that cause oxidative damage to biomolecules.
Individuals who overdose antioxidant supplements could enter the status of “antioxidative” stress (Figure 3). If administration of antioxidant supplements decreases the level of free radicals, it may interfere with the immune system to fight bacteria and essential defensive mechanisms for removal of damaged cells, including those that are precancerous and cancerous [84]. Thus, antioxidant supplement overtake may cause harm [35, 36, 56, 85, 86]. When large amounts of antioxidant nutrients are taken, they can also act as prooxidants by increasing oxidative stress [87, 88]. Pro- and antioxidant effects of antioxidants (e.g., vitamin C) are dose dependent, and thus, more is not necessarily better. Our diets typically contain safe levels of vitamins; therefore, high-level antioxidant supplements may upset this important physiological balance between the ROS formation and neutralization."

And...

"...Presently, the use of supplemental antioxidants could be advised only in cases of well-known conditions, where the depletion of antioxidants is known and can be predicted. Daily use of synthetic supplements has not been proven as beneficial, and excessive use may be harmful. Balanced food still seems to be the best option..."

I hope this helps clarify my point.

Also, as Digby has suggested, you can research "Hormesis". This may further illustrate this process.

Phoiph
I appreciate your response Those articles take a lot of work to plow through

What it boils down to I think is what do I do then?
These articles don't give personal advice considering our age state of health the type of Hbot we are doing diet etc. We each have to decide how we will use the information according to our needs and decide if it applies to our situation at all.

A good Doctor versed in this field can help I think
Thanks

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Digby:
quote:
Originally posted by Hominahomina:
Okay specifically Digby

Something That states taking synthetic antioxidants like NAC can blunt increased antioxidants produced by mHBOT

I read over the articles that phoiph supplied Neither of them as far as I can see addressed that

Thanks

First I want to say that I agree with Phoiph's reply regarding the links she sent.

Unfortunately I can't find a study that specifically addresses your concern, so I have nothing definitive. Here are a couple of studies that may help you to come to a conclusion on this.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15147832

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0024320504002863

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0002934380905094

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2610268

My take away is that exogenous antioxidants (AO) do affect the reactive oxygen species (ROS) produced by HBOT at least in high doses. It is also mentioned that endogenous AO work better. We do know that mild HBOT increases ROS and subsequently increases endogenous AO.

So, I would conclude by saying that taking high dose exogenous AO may interfere with the AO upregulation that occurs with mHBOT. You may come to a different conclusion. If so, please share.

Thanks for your response Digby
I don't seem to have a problem with mHBOT and antioxident supplements specifically NAC (as far as I can tell) at 1200 mg on an empty stomach prior to a CE I find benefit actually This is my experience.

[ 02-22-2020, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Hominahomina ]

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Phoiph
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Homina~

I think you might have answered your own question.

I'm sure Dr. Sonners is a great chiropractor, but keep in mind, there are few true experts in the field of mHBOT, and you have to do your own due diligence and make your own informed decisions. It is a relatively new field, and is even more recent in its long term use for Lyme Disease and chronic illness.

(You might want to go to Dr. Harch's website: HBOT.com, as he is one of the founders of mild hyperbaric and has been using it successfully with patients for years, although not necessarily with Lyme.)

Also, I wouldn't underestimate this group's power of combined experience. Even though those here aren't necessarily doctors (although there are health practitioners and naturopaths here), we do our research and have the benefit of first hand years of experiences to share.

It might surprise (or scare) you that doctors have come to some of us for education and experience on mild hyperbaric, and refer their patients to us for information.

That said, I think you are wise to gather information from all sources, and make an informed personal decision.

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Hominahomina
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For Sale
One year old Newtowne Chamber with concentrator 4k

573 714 3883 text Vince not me

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Hominahomina
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Here's another

Very slightly used Newtowne 34 inch chamber used two days has 2 year warranty 4995.00

512-789-2788 Michelle
just saw it on facebook group

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Kaibyrd
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Questions about detoxing and mild exercise.

I just can’t seem to get it right. I feel better for a couple of days then crash hard and can’t figure out the best routines.

When you started exercising, did you have to push yourself through crashes for a while or did you tend to listen to your body and ease up during crashes. Am I easing up too much, I guess is my question. What was your routine to begin with? I get a few days of relief from the crushing fatigue so I walk a bit on the treadmill then pause a day then walk again then crash for a week.

When is the best time to detox? How often? I find my infrared sauna to be my best form of detox but I’m not sure if that’s causing the crashes as well.

I’m sorry, I know these questions have been asked and answered many times but finding those posts in this huge thread is just beyond me right now. Thanks, y’all!

--------------------
KB

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Hominahomina
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Podcast with Dr Jason Sonners on Hyperbaric Oxygen

https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/podcast/recovery-podcasts/hyperbaric-oxygen-therapy/?fbclid=IwAR0ClYIiVTjLB4kTlK6rPb6gJGYdXfV64porBggHIXadUQawPdbjEqn8ufI

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
Questions about detoxing and mild exercise.

I just can’t seem to get it right. I feel better for a couple of days then crash hard and can’t figure out the best routines.

When you started exercising, did you have to push yourself through crashes for a while or did you tend to listen to your body and ease up during crashes. Am I easing up too much, I guess is my question. What was your routine to begin with? I get a few days of relief from the crushing fatigue so I walk a bit on the treadmill then pause a day then walk again then crash for a week.

When is the best time to detox? How often? I find my infrared sauna to be my best form of detox but I’m not sure if that’s causing the crashes as well.

I’m sorry, I know these questions have been asked and answered many times but finding those posts in this huge thread is just beyond me right now. Thanks, y’all!

I don't know what others here do

I can't exercise like I want to
I try to get a light swim and a little weight training two days a week

I try to be regular when I am really tired I adjust and do less
When I am really really tired I skip

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Kaibyrd
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Homina, that’s pretty much what I do for exercise too.

How often do you detox?

--------------------
KB

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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
Homina, that’s pretty much what I do for exercise too.

How often do you detox?

I don't know if this qualifies as detox but I do coffee enemas daily and when at the gym I do the sauna
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Phoiph
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Kaibyrd,

If you're crashing from walking on the treadmill, then you're doing too much.

I would stick to gentle yoga for now. It was a very important part of my recovery, and its benefits are often underestimated.

There will be time for more vigorous exercise later, but for now, your body is telling you it needs the energy for basic functioning and healing.

I will also PM you the contact info for a doctor that can figure out genetically where your detox blocks are, and give you a targeted, individual plan to go around those. The information will also be useful for determining what supplements are right for you, which you asked about previously. He is also mHBOT friendly.

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Kaibyrd
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Thanks Homina!

Thanks so much Phoiph!
I was walking because yoga felt more strenuous for me.
I’ll give it another try.

--------------------
KB

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carbokitty
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KB-
Once I found gentle yoga, I never looked back. There is also “therapeutic” yoga and chair yoga. I personally don’t enjoy yoga where there is a requirement to do the poses exactly right. I have found gentle classes in a number of locations that are very supportive of the student being wherever they are and doing what they can. I hope you can find something similar.

Carbokitty

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Kaibyrd
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Thank you Carbokitty,

I need something I can do at home. I’ll keep looking for gentle yoga videos.

--------------------
KB

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kgg
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I personally, am not a fan of yoga. For the 2 plus years I did my treatment dives, I practiced Tai Chi. I specifically practice Dr. Paul Lam's Tai Chi for Health. It is the Sun (pronounced soon) form. This form has less impact and less low forms. So it is easier on the body. My favorites are the Arthritis and Diabetes forms.

Since feeling better, I have in the last year started water aerobics. Yes, aerobics! I can now raise my heart rate to aerobic levels and not have PEM. Yay!! I started with once a week. A year later I am doing 3, 2 hour water aerobic sessions. Definitely has something to do with the water pressure that makes is doable. I still pay if I push it too much on land.

I don't do anything formal for detox except make sure that I am drinking plenty of water and not constipated. =)

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Kaibyrd
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My husband suggested Tai Chi so I’m lookin into that as well. Thanks for the info!

--------------------
KB

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Digby
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Tai Chi is a great option, just be cautious as it is more intense than it looks. :^)
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Hominahomina
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quote:
Originally posted by kgg:
I personally, am not a fan of yoga. For the 2 plus years I did my treatment dives, I practiced Tai Chi. I specifically practice Dr. Paul Lam's Tai Chi for Health. It is the Sun (pronounced soon) form. This form has less impact and less low forms. So it is easier on the body. My favorites are the Arthritis and Diabetes forms.

Since feeling better, I have in the last year started water aerobics. Yes, aerobics! I can now raise my heart rate to aerobic levels and not have PEM. Yay!! I started with once a week. A year later I am doing 3, 2 hour water aerobic sessions. Definitely has something to do with the water pressure that makes is doable. I still pay if I push it too much on land.


I don't do anything formal for detox except make sure that I am drinking plenty of water and not constipated. =)

Being able to do that much exercise is impressive
I wonder if anyone has improved enough to run something very hard like a triathalon?

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Kaibyrd
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Good question, Homina.

Digby I agree.

I did a gentle yoga video today that I found on YouTube. (There are many.) I guess tomorrow will tell me if it’s right but it felt more strenuous than the treadmill hike I did last week.

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Kaibyrd…

You might consider beginning "Yin" yoga.

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Kaibyrd
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I’ll look into it, thanks Phoiph.

--------------------
KB

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Hominahomina
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Hello All

It looks like I have to ship my chamber to the company I bought it from for repair

Foe those of you that have had to do this did you find an inexpensive way to ship?

Thanks

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Phoiph
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Homina,

What company did you buy it from?

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Hominahomina
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Newtowne
It is a slight tear in the zipper area that does not affect the chamber's ability to pressurize. Marie believes it could get worse and she is offering to fix it even though I am a month out of warranty
Shipping is over one hundred dollars which seems very high

[ 03-04-2020, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Hominahomina ]

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kgg
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I know it sounds like a lot, but it is about what I paid through UPS
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Phoiph
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Homina~

I'm sure you know that you just send the "bladder" (bag), not anything else.

It usually runs about $80.00 including insurance via FedEx (depending on distance), but make sure you insure it for whatever amount Marie suggests.

You can call FedEx and get an estimate based on weight/size of box, zip code, and amount to be insured.

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Hominahomina
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Shipping via UPS from Caifornia to Maryland Chamber or Bladder about 125.00
Greyhound station to station is about 80.00
Fedex was about the same as UPS

I could not find better pricing than that

Thanks

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Phoiph
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If you haven't already heard, home/soft chambers have recently been outlawed in Canada.

IMO, their "rationale" for banning them is so weak and inaccurate, it screams "ulterior motive".

I truly hope we are not next, but I have been wondering about this for some time, as mHBOT gains popularity in its success. (Remember, oxygen can't be patented!)

In any case, I feel we need to be aware of the situation, and prepared for the possibility.

Here's the statement from Health Canada:

https://www.healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2019/71413a-eng.php

Here is a very angry rebuttal/rant by a concerned citizen:

http://therapiehyperbare.com/en/articles/Medical_tyranny_against_therapies_for_Autism_and_Cerebral_Palsy_dec27_2019.pdf

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dbpei
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This is so disturbing. I am amazed at the lies and deception (fear tactics) that are so blatant! I thought that Canadians didn't have the corruption we do! But it looks like I may have been wrong.

I am at over 50 dives now and had hoped to take my chamber with me to our summer cottage (in Canada) and now may want to rethink this. I wonder if they would have the right to confiscate it at the border when I go through Customs!

If I don't take it with me, it would mean several weeks without mHBOT. I don't know how much that would set me back. I feel that I am making slow and steady progress.

Thanks for the heads' up on this, Phoiph. I hope it won't happen here in the US, but anything is possible.

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Bartenderbonnie
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Thanks for posting Pholph.
Unbelievable!!!

I feel so sorry for our Canadian neighbors to the north.
NO ONE WILL HELP THEM AND NO LLMD'S ON CANADIAN SOIL. . . . . .

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Hominahomina
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Any rumblings of this happening in the states at all?
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Phoiph
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Hyperbaric Application to Corvid19

https://hbot.com/hyperbaric-application-to-covid-19-pulmonary-infection/

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carbokitty
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Cleaning suggestions?

I just returned from being at an airbnb in California. As incredibly lovely as it was in so many ways (beautiful views! Lots of wild/animal life to watch! Sunny and warm!), I was apparently and obviously (to me) reacting to something in the house (I'm a mold sensitive person). I got sicker and sicker as I starting diving in my own chamber in the house.

My tube just arrived via UPS. I am looking for suggestions about how to best wipe it down. I'm not sure if everything is irreversibly contaminated. I want to give it my best attempt at being able to use everything again. Your thoughts?

Thank you.

Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Hi Carbokitty,

The recommended solution for cleaning the chamber is 50:50 hydrogen peroxide (3%) and water solution, mixed in a spray bottle. Wipe down well.

I have a call in to Oxyhealth and am waiting for an answer on whether UV light would be another option, or if it would eventually compromise the urethane/seals of the chamber.

Reportedly, they have used ozone to disinfect, but it is only used on an individual chamber once for a short time when absolutely necessary, as it could degrade the materials if used more frequently.

Also, remember to clean the filter in your oxygen concentrator.

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