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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Great new info chronic lyme& coinfections

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Author Topic: Great new info chronic lyme& coinfections
Nancy L
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This is German doctor information translated into English.

It is amazing.

Lyme is a rampant epidemic in Germany, and they have researched it longer than the US.

It explains the mechanisms operating in chronic lyme in layman’s terms, very thorough but understandable, with symptoms and their treatments.

Towards the bottom, it gives their treatment protocols for chronic lyme and the coinfections!

I don’t know much about the coinfections, but the chronic lyme info was enlightening.

This is the link:

http://www.borreliose-nachrichten.de/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Chronic_persistent_Lyme-Disease_or_chronic_Borreliosis.pdf

Does anyone do these treatments for lyme or coinfections now? Or is it a lot different from your US treatments?

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Kudzuslipper
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Great article Nancy. Thanks.
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poppy
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Wondering how they arrived at the conclusion that 9 out of 10 people bitten by a tick and getting lyme could fight it off with their own immune system. How could anyone know this? If this happened, no one would know they were ever infected.
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Nancy L
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Welc

I just cut/pasted this part on one of the German parts of the chronic lyme treatments:

"Tinidazole (as a very effective co-treatment together with Tetracyclines and Macrolides). Very recent studies (Profs E.S.and A.M., Conn, 2011)
have shown its high efficacy against INTRACELLULAR persister forms and BIOFILMS as well as against the spirochetal Borrelia."
(my caps)

I just looked up "intracellular on wiki, and it said it means "within the cells". Whoo Hoo!

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Nancy L
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Good question, poppy!

Maybe the delay factor? Can be up to 8years to show itself I understand.

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dbpei
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Wow. This is a great article! Thanks for sharing.
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Tincup
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Poppy,

You said.. "Wondering how they arrived at the conclusion that 9 out of 10 people bitten by a tick and getting lyme could fight it off with their own immune system. How could anyone know this?"

Early on, especially in the areas covered by this wonderful report, forest rangers and various outdoor workers were subjected to regular Lyme testing in areas where Lyme was showing up.

Of the rangers tested, many had positive blood tests, but no symptoms, indicating they were exposed, but their system was fighting it off. They called it "occupational exposure" and said it required no treatment.

The other option is the IDiot ducks said it to make people think they don't need treatment or there is no such thing as chronic Lyme, and the 9/10 figure is just being repeated here without any scientific support.

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Tincup
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And thank you Nancy for sharing this good info!

[Big Grin]

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Nancy L
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You guys are so welcome.

I am so grateful I found it! It references a 2011 study, so it was written after that and who knows how long after that it was translated. Should be very up-to-date German treatments/knowledge.

I just googled "artemisinin blebs" and this was on page 2!

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Nancy L
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I am on day 4 of using artemisinin, that the German info pdf recommends for parasites as one non-prescription alternatives.

Below is info from several research sources that I found helpful about artemisinin, and thought might be interesting to those members using or considering artemisinin.

Artemisinin should be taken with fatty foods. Using an essential fatty acid (flax oil, cod liver oil, lecithin, wheat germ oil) will help absorption, as will CLA. The effectiveness of artemisinin is reduced by catalase, dithiothreitol and alpha tocopherol.

About twelve years ago, Dr. L.G. and Dr. H B. worked together in New York and began using artemisinin as a broad spectrum antiparasitic agent.
"Artemisinin is a powerful oxidant. I have used it orally to treat small bowel bacterial overgrowth, Clostridial overgrowth and (along with other herbal extracts, such as berberine, grapefruit seed extract and oregano oil) as a treatment for intestinal parasites.” L G. MD.

Artemisinin reacts with a high concentration of iron (ferrous compounds), something found in high concentrations in the malaria parasite. When artemisinin meets up with this high iron concentration, a chemical reaction occurs creating free radicals that attack cell membranes, breaking them apart and killing them.

(Nancy’s note: Bb also has an affinity to iron, why it is attracted to or infects red-blood cells, and the mechanism by which artemisinin kills the Bb blebs or other forms when stuck in/on the red blood cells, is the same as malaria, my understanding of it)

Because of artemisinin’s activity, because it attacks using free radicals to destroy the cell membranes of cells carrying iron, it is not recommended to take antioxidants with artemisinin. (my note: however it says that oxygenation therapies are fine with artemisinin.)

High doses are neurotoxic (bad for the brain)
1. Do not take artemisinin or any derivates within 20 days of radiation therapy. Radiation spreads iron (leaks) to surrounding tissues. 2. If iron levels are low, supplementing iron for a few days prior to starting this treatment is recommended. 3.Laboratory tests should be used to monitor the progress of this therapy:

(my note: the bottle warning says if you take this for more than 30 days straight, you must do liver tests) The treatment pattern I have seen most is 5 days on, 2 days off, for 3 weeks, then a week off.)

Studies show artemisinin is effective against a wide variety of cancers, but is not a stand-alone therapy.

I hope this info will prove useful 

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'Kete-tracker
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Wonderful, Nancy!
I figgered there *must* be some multi-page document out there (over in Germany), written for the health care professionals, which would be similar to Dr. B's Guidelines.

I just printed out a copy & intend to give it to my PCP, who was appreciative of the copy of 'Dr. B's' that I gave him way back in 2006.

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Nancy L
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Wish my PCP would treat me for lyme.

She says that is not her field (she is holistic mostly),that she is not qualified to treat lyme, and insists on my finding a lyme specialist for treatment.

This area has some, but not very much lyme yet.

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Nancy L
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There is some new research on how the blebs turn into cysts within 48 hours with all the DNA in them, and then (unless threatened to stay as cysts probably) after 9 days, they open and new spirochetes come out.

Will send more on that as I can.

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sk8ter
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Nancy do you have a link for the blebs info? TY
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Lymedin2010
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Good article, thanks!
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CD57
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where is the stuff about coinfections?
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Beverly
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Wow, good info thanks for sharing. [Wink]

--------------------
God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion.

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Nancy L
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sk8ter, on the blebs info:

http://scielo.isciii.es/scielo.php?pid=S1139-67092004000200009&script=sci_arttext

This one shows how tinidazole/tindamax stays in the system for 48+ hours:

http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/00365528509088853

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Nancy L
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CD57, I just checked the German paper again. You are right, not many references to coinfections; maybe another better name for the thread [Smile]

I kept seeing some of the co-infection names as I was looking for Bb info for me, here are the ones I found in quick scan:
P 6: if irritation of the throat and coughing and shortness of breath when minor walking, symptoms usually have Bb with co-infection with Chlamgdophila Pneumonia or Mycoplasma Pneumonia.
P18 Tindamax helpful for giardia/Lambia
p13 Dark Field Microscopy shows other pathogens like Chlamydia and Yersinia.
p27 LTT Melissa tests for several listed co-infections including Babesia and Bart

But you are right, CD, not much on co-infections.

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