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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Lyme disease and the menstrual cycle

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Author Topic: Lyme disease and the menstrual cycle
Marnie
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This is a new finding (for me)...our reactions to the infection plotted to the female menstrual cycle here:

http://www.lymenet.de/symptoms/cycles/models.htm

See PGE2 mentioned in the PICTURE?

PGE2... I remember reading about norepinephrine (= noradrenaline) and how it relates to lyme. It's buried in my files. I'll try to find it.

PGE2 upregulates the IL-23 RECEPTOR = IL-23R.

http://jem.rupress.org/content/206/3/535.full

Bb has a protein that triggers IL-23.

It is called

NapA

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/art.23972/pdf


So now we have Bb triggering a interleukin protein and our defense system triggers a receptor for that protein.

IL-23 and IL-23R.

Meanwhile...

now this:

PGE2 ***inhibits the release of noradrenaline***

from sympathetic nerve terminals. (Wiki)

Both physiologic and pharmacologic dose NE

***suppressed wound macrophage phagocytic*** efficiency.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17689682

BUT...this is what norepinephrine = noradrenaline ALSO does...

Norepinephrine also underlies the fight-or-flight response, along with epinephrine, directly increasing heart rate, triggering the release of glucose from energy stores, and increasing blood flow to skeletal muscle. It increases the brain's oxygen supply. (Wiki)

And...

Prostaglandin E2 (PGE2) inhibits glucose-induced insulin secretion, and inhibitors of PGE2 *synthesis* augment this event.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/36/9/1047.full.pdf

Berberine has been shown previously to

inhibit the production of PGE2

***in response to LPS-induced inflammation.***

http://repository.lib.ncsu.edu/ir/bitstream/1840.16/7221/1/etd.pdf

M2 (normally anti-inflammatory macrophages) convert to pro-inflammatory macrophages because they take up ox-LDL (oxidized LDL).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167486

Berberine looks to trigger their (macrophage) cell death. They aren't working/finishing their job and are secreting inflammatory cytokines. There is a chance they may have become HeLa like cells i.e., immortal.


Heads up!!!

There is a possibility that those macrophages contain CWD spirochetes and we are still reacting to the remaining particles. In other words, lipoproteins (cell wall Osp(s) are gone, but

LPS...Lipopolysaccharides remain (which are components of the bacterial cell membrane).

"Lipopolysaccharides are found in the outer membrane of Gram-negative bacteria, and elicit strong immune responses in animals. It is an endotoxin."(Wiki)

"Role of berberine in anti-bacterial as a high-affinity

***LPS antagonist***

binding to TLR4/MD-2 receptor

Berberine can act as a LPS antagonist and block the LPS/TLR4 signaling from the source,

resulting in the anti-bacterial action."

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/14/89

That makes berberine an endotoxin (LPS) antagonist.

Remember we thought restoring the vitamin D binding protein was a good thing and would be beneficial for the macrophages?

Well...

DBP = (vitamin)D Binding Protein

"Thus, we inferred that high levels of DBP were

adverse to recovery.

In conclusion, here we observed upregulated DBP in the cerebrospinal fluid could serve as a specific diagnostic biomarker for the

progression of multiple sclerosis.

Next, we demonstrate the vital function of increased levels of free vitamin D metabolites for multiple sclerosis treatment.

Finally, vitamin D supplements may be particularly beneficial for SPMS patients."

Secondary progressive multiple sclerosis (SPMS)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23339019

So...Vitamin D supplements ARE beneficial, but DBP (high levels) may not be a good thing.

Doctors...we need help with the dosage and timing of Berberine Chloride and need to know if adding Diflucan will work in synergy.

[ 04-15-2014, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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LisaK
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wow! You caught my eye with your heading, but this is way too technical for my today with my tick brain in its 4 week flair!

haha. can you please say it in a short phrase with plain wordage? Sorry! [Smile]

--------------------
Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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pointermom
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Is early menopause common in Lymies?

I was in my early 30's when I started have migraines, depression, IBS and "atypical" arthritis (whatever that means).

Doctors called it "para-menopause" Actual menopause followed within a few years and the migraines stopped.

Now that I've been diagnosed with Lyme and RMSF, I wonder if I had Lyme that long ago.

That was a time when I began working in the woods and landfills, could easily have been bitten by ticks.

Is early menopause also a symptom of Lyme?

Anybody else have similar experience?

--------------------
One day closer to being cured.....

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LisaK
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I was told- when I started with full blown symptoms about 10 years ago- that I was in peri-menopause by 4 different Drs.

I did NOT have peri-menopause! I had LYME. since treatment this past year my cycle is regular again and migraines are going away it seems.

I was checked during this long undiagnosed time of mine, for HEMOCHROMATOSIS. You may look into that. Maybe you high iron stores???

http://www.hemochromatosis.org/

They found I am a carrier

--------------------
Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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Marnie
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Ya want the *bottom line*, right?

It appears Bb is camped out in our macrophages (think of them as pac -men trying to gobble up Bb). Those macrophages may have become "immortal"...resistant to death.

Bb appears to have no problem occupying other immortal cells too (HeLa...cancer cells).

When we have oxidized Bb's lipoproteins (cell wall components) we are left to deal with CWD (cell WALL deficient) forms.

What then remains is

a bacterial cell membrane that contains LPS (think of it as a "sugary" protein) which is

an endotoxin.

That is what we are reacting to...bigtime!

Bb's cell membrane - LPS = an endotoxin.

Berberine is a LPS antagonist which is attributed to its anti-bacterial function.

Helpful explanation?

Lisa, I remember Tincup saying she too has your problem and feels so much better when tubes and tubes of blood are withdrawn for testing.

Blood letting is one approach.

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LisaK
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yes, that helps much, thanks!

interesting.

I love information, it's just so difficult now for me to handle it all sometimes.

--------------------
Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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TF
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pointermom, lyme disease can cause a false menopause. It caused it in me. I went to numerous gyns trying to get some relief from my terrible sympoms. They all said I was in menopause.

My ovaries became very, very small. They shut down. My hormones were zero.

But, in reality, I had lyme disease, babesiosis, and bartonella.

I eventually went to a very smart endocrinologist who said my symptoms were not from menopause (the menopause from hell) but likely lyme disease. He tested me and I was positive.

Once I got good lyme treatment (but not for my 2 years of lousy lyme treatment), my so-called menopause went away and I became pre-menopause again.

I had been on hormone replacement for 7 years by this time. But, once I got good lyme treatment, my periods came back, all of my gynecological symptoms reversed, and I no longer needed hormone replacement. I became totally normal.

A few years later I went through the real menopause.

I have met other women whose periods stopped or became irregular with lyme disease. So, it is not rare. But, I don't really know the statistics on how often it happens.

If you look at the symptom list in the Burrascano Lyme Treatment Guidelines, you will see "unexplained menstrual irregularity." So, that is where he is listing this false menopause or peri-menopause as a symptom of lyme.

See page 10:

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

You will see other gynecological symptoms listed around that symptom. You can have some or all of them or others that are not listed.

The danger of such an early menopause (whether lyme-induced or not) is that loss of estrogen at such an early age will make you more likely to have osteopenia and then osteoporosis later on.

So, I would do all I can to get well treated for lyme in the hopes that your ovaries will begin producing estrogen again. Estrogen protects your bones. Be willing to supplement with estrogen to prevent osteoporosis, known as the silent killer of women.

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desertwind
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I think it causes early menopause. Is early 40's considered early? My Mom was 55 when she went through it so I was about 13 years younger then her.

I had lost weight so that could have had something to do with it..hard to tell if it was the weight loss, lyme or both but since my early 40's I have been done. Here one day and gone the next - no slow transition - just a welcome to the other side.

Now I am in my late 40's and I do not think I will ever get it back. I really do not have any symptoms of menopause though so its kinda weird.

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pointermom
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Lisa, odd that you mention hemachromatosis!

my (deceased) brother's kids have it and my sister-in-law keeps insisting that, in order for her kids to have it, my brother must have also. She insists that my family should be tested also!

Boy, there sure are some smart people here!!

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One day closer to being cured.....

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LisaK
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TF, you are so fortunate to have had that dr realize that for you! I wish I had that. wow.

pointermom, yes, they told me since I am a carrier I should have my kids tested once in a while. When I had my irregularities with my non peri-menopause, I was getting my period twice a month!

I had so much iron stored I guess my body wanted to get rid of it. and they suggested to donate blood once in a while which I did and now feel so bad about - spreading my babs! [Frown]

SOrry your brother died young (I am assuming). Maybe he did have it. If I remember correctly, they told me that my husband would have to also be a carrier or have it himself, so that does make sense.

I had a genetic test for it.

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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TF
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LisaK, well it took 10 years of sickness and innumerable doctors for me to have the good fortune to go to that endo who tested me for lyme disease.
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LisaK
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I went 16+ undiagnosed, so I got you beat [Wink]

ha. I wish I lost that competition! haha

...and I pretty much figured it out on my own. this is why I have a trust issue with all drs. 40+ drs and , well, I think it was written on every chart- "PROBLEM PATIENT!"

I never have good fortune. even cars and appliances I buy new are lemons.

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Be thankful in all things- even difficult times and sickness and trials - because there is something GOOD to be seen

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OtterJ
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TF, pm me about who your endo is. I am still having pituitary problems. I will travel for the right person.
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Marnie
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Bones need: Ca, Mg, boron and vitamin D3 et al.

I have a neighbor whose vit.D3 level is VERY low (as is the vitamin D levels of both of her 2 teenage daughters). Massive doses of D3 over 3 months only raised it slightly. Her doc is sending her and her girls to Tampa for genetic testing because he has never seen this. My neighbor has had cancer...once, so far...as did HER mother.

Can you say genetically estrogen dominant?

D3/K2 maybe helpful (that is a combination).

Research the "2" form of vitamin K.

"Clearly, even a mild deficiency in magnesium can radically affect bone health. Studies bear this out.

A comprehensive literature review showed that chronically low intakes of magnesium, vitamin D, boron, vitamins K, B12, B6, and folic acid lead to osteoporosis—as does a chronically high intake of protein, salt, alcohol, and caffeine."

http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/calcium-magnesium-supplement

Curious that B12, B6 and folic acid (B9) are playing a part in bone health too because they are also critical in the remethylation and transsulfuration pathway to lower homocysteine (which comes from methionine which comes from protein in our diets).

Estrogen dominance and methylation = simply transferring or removing "methyl" groups i.e., CH3 on proteins = 3 hydrogens bonded to one carbon.

IMPORTANT:

"Methylate

Every woman should know this word. The ability to use certain nutrients, like B vitamins, plays a large role in estrogen metabolism.

***Inability to methylate results in estrogen dominance***

and increased risk for breast cancer.

Methylation capacity can be tested, helping you and your doctor establish a thorough understanding of hormone metabolism, detoxification and nutrient status."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tasneem-bhatia-md/breast-cancer-prevention_b_4027003.html

One process of methylation turns on and off genes, this means it affects your DNA (genetic code).

The ability to methylate helps you process toxins

and hormones.

For example, estrogen… you make it in your body, and you also get it from xenobiotics (chemicals in shampoos, pesticides, herbicides, plastics and more)

if you can’t break down estrogen and get it OUT of your body, you could develop all sorts of disorders.

http://www.dearpharmacist.com/2013/08/08/2394/ GREAT link!!!


My son is on DMAE for methyl (and acetylcholine) support and his sister had to have progesterone shots to prevent premature labor...in her case undermethylated-high histamine (she has allergies - getting worse) and is very likely "estrogen dominant".

[ 04-18-2014, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: Marnie ]

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