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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Nutritional Ketosis?

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Author Topic: Nutritional Ketosis?
lightfoot
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Is anyone else using a Keto way of eating to support Lyme treatment?

--------------------
Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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bcb1200
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A well known LLMD in CT (Dr. M) believes a Ketogenic diet is the key to wellness as it likely burns up the biofilm.

Betterhealthguy has a write up from one of his conferences where Dr. M discusses this.

See this link http://www.betterhealthguy.com/ilads-2015

Search for "Ketogenic" on the page. You will find it in Dr. M's talk.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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gz
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"Nutritional ketosis" refers to maintaining the blood ketones above a certain level by manipulating dietary macros. The consumption of real whole foods (not processed or powdered nutrition) is usually emphasized.

Nutritional ketosis is very anti-inflammatory. It can make the environment of the body very conducive to healing many different types of issues.

My diet has been low carb since 2009. Dropping grains and going low carb was so helpful to my body that I thought it was my missing puzzle piece (had lyme sx long before diet change). I got more vector exposure and went on to develop new sets of sx and others worsened with time.

I don't feel I have issues with yeast and attribute this to low carb. I feel it continues to support my health in the way that is best for me. I also feel if the macronutrient ratios are not right for someone then micronutrient availability will be greatly hindered.

I've dabbled with nutritional ketosis, but I enjoy eating too much and find that to stay in true nutritional ketosis (NK) requires me to be more restrictive than I care for. The only way to realize if you are in NK is by testing for blood ketones and the strips are very pricey. Urine ketones are not indicative of blood ketone level.

I believe that Jimmy Moore, author of Keto Clarity, was a speaker at the recently aired chronic lyme disease summit.

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Lymetoo
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Great link, bcb!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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bcb1200
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You can also read about Terry Wahl in the Wahl's Diet book. She had MS and was in a wheelchair and healed herself through a ketogenic diet.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

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WPinVA
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Interesting! A close family member is on the keto diet for diabetes. It is VERY restrictive. The part I dislike the most is that he is severely restricted in how many (and what kind) of veggies he can eat.

The diet really emphasizes fats and protein.

So my question would be - what about the nutritional aspect of this diet?

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by bcb1200:
You can also read about Terry Wahl in the Wahl's Diet book. She had MS and was in a wheelchair and healed herself through a ketogenic diet.

-
She also took antibiotics and other drugs. It was not all through diet. I found that by googling it many years ago. Makes me think she may have had Lyme or some other infection.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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faithful777
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There are numerous studies showing that not only is a ketogenic way of life safe, but very healthy.

Read up on studies from Volek, Phinney, Westman, etc. Carbs are not necessary at all.

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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TxCoord
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"The part I dislike the most is that he is severely restricted in how many (and what kind) of veggies he can eat.

The diet really emphasizes fats and protein."

WPinVA: Both Silver and I are on the low carb lifestyle(which is ketogenic as I burn fat instead of carbs)
The restrictions are not really that much, especially in the veggies dept. You avoid peas, carrots, and corn (all are very high in sugar and having been on this lifestyle since Apr 2014, our A1C's are excellent [my most recent was 5.6 and Silver's was 5.8] and blood pressure is under control).

The reason for the fats is that your body will burn more fat than you intake. My last BMI I had lost 10 pounds. But the chart recorded over 12 pounds in fat lost. I replaced fat with muscle.

Also, your brain is fat. If you are on low or no fat you are depriving your brain.

The diet, I believe, does not focus on proteins as much as it focuses on balance. "X" amount of veggies and "X" amount of protein. And the veggie amount far outweighs the protein.

It may be that your friend is modifying or doing something different to accommodate themselves and tastes.

70+ pounds loss in 2 years for me with more than that being fat. Inches on waist lost. Inches on neck lost.

Silver is down many pounds and sizes and her doc is ecstatic.

The focus should be on what you can have - bacon, butter, salt, fatty meats, rather than lamenting what you can't.

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I have a good time wherever I go!

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faithful777
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I get plenty of vegetables. I eat veggies that grow above ground while losing and monitor starchy ones when I am just trying to maintain.

I eat salads every day. I love greens!!

You will not be depriving your brain because you will be in nutritional ketosis and the brain can function on ketones. I have zero brain fog now that I eat this way.

You don't have to eat all your fats from meats. there are plenty of good fats from plants. I eat avocados every day and coconut oil.

What is amazing is how this way of eating prevents disease.

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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TxCoord
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You're right Faithful!!! Good fats from avocados, butter, olives, and from fish (if you don't like doing red meats)!

And don't forget some nuts! Be careful with the carb counts, though.

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I have a good time wherever I go!

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Abxnomore
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Totally agree with the two posts above and including good fats in your diet keeps you feeling full much longer and eliminates cravings for junk food and sweets.
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lightfoot
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Nutritional Ketosis

This is one of my favorite topics.....food as medicine.

I am not speaking of KETOACIDOSIS which is a serious condition which applies only to Type 1 diabetics.

Whole organic foods, clean (pastured) sources of protein & good fats are mainstays. It's a paradigm shift and counter to the food practices of our culture.

It is a highly anti-inflammatory way of eating.

My personal benefits with the ketogenic lifestyle:

1) Mental clarity (my brain loves ketones)
2) Food cravings gone, no gnawing hunger anytime
3) Appetite regulated
4) Joint, muscle and bone pain reduced
5) Weight loss, especially belly (first normal weight in 50 years)
6) Strength, stamina and endurance increased greatly
7) Body composition improved (Percent body fat reduced)

I have had chronic Lyme for almost 60 years. I realized many years ago, prior to having the Lyme dx, that food was a major determining factor in my health.

I think for Lyme it is imperative. For me it makes the difference of day and night. I've been into real food for years so it wasn't too big a leap...nothing processed.

I had been Paleo for about three years when I discovered Keto through my Functional Medicine doctor. Paleo had some of the same benefits but Keto has brought me up a few more notches since January of 2015, the result of Nutritional Ketosis.

As Faithful says above, one does not need carbohydrates at all. I am learning at a gut level that FOOD is FUEL and the benefits of the Keto way of life are very powerful teachers!!!!

Adventures in Diet
Part 1 By Vilhjalmur Stefansson
http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Stefansson's account and one year supervised experiment on Inuit diet:
http://www.drbass.com/stefansson1.html

The body can be fueled by glucose (carbs) or fat. 

When fueled by glucose, the body requires frequent feeding because we can only store about 2,000 calories of glucose for fuel. The fluctuations in blood sugar are responsible for the erratic mental, physical and emotional roller coaster.

When carbohydrates are restricted the body responds by going into ketosis and begins burning fat. Even a lean person has thousands of calories of fat to draw from. The body/brain have an uninterrupted and consistent source of energy.

Once in nutritional ketosis, it takes from three to six weeks to become totally KETO adapted and realize the full benefit. The blood meter is the most accurate method of measuring ketones in the body.

Testing is not necessary when carbs are kept at 20 grams or less.

Neuroprotective and disease-modifying effects of the ketogenic diet
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367001/

ALS
http://www.drperlmutter.com/study/a-ketogenic-diet-as-a-potential-novel-therapeutic-intervention-in-amyotrophic-lateral-sclerosis/

Your research can provide information, studies etc on the ketogenic diet for: depression, cancer, migraine, ALS, Lyme, MS, epilepsy, autism, brain disorders, Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes, High cholesterol, Alzheimers and Parkinson's.

There are many groups on the web. I recommend the group that has helped me the most with information, science and support. It is a group using a Facebook platform. Although it is a closed group, click the join button to be added.

It is primarily for weight loss but there are many participating with various diseases, conditions and maintenance. The admins are very helpful.

Here is the link if you are interested:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/ketogenicdieters/

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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faithful777
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Lightfoot, the last link is to a group that does not follow the true ketogenic way of life. They have adapted it for their group.

They say they follow the ways of Phinney and Volk which is high fat, moderate protein and low carb. What they do follow is high protein, moderate fat and low carb.

This is the group I like the best.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketodietplan/

[ 04-20-2016, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: faithful777 ]

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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WPinVA
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"WPinVA: Both Silver and I are on the low carb lifestyle(which is ketogenic as I burn fat instead of carbs)
The restrictions are not really that much, especially in the veggies dept. You avoid peas, carrots, and corn (all are very high in sugar and having been on this lifestyle since Apr 2014, our A1C's are excellent [my most recent was 5.6 and Silver's was 5.8] and blood pressure is under control)."

Your diet sounds different from what my husband is doing. My husband is on a closely-medically supervised true ketogenic diet, which is very different from a low-carb lifestyle. In order to get into ketosis he is restricted to 20 carbs or less per day! He has strict restrictions on veggies far beyond what you describe. He even has restrictions on the amounts of permissible veggies he can eat. I really hate that part because I don't see how he can get all his nutrients long term this way.

"It may be that your friend is modifying or doing something different to accommodate themselves and tastes."

Nope - see above - following doctor's instructions to the T!

"The focus should be on what you can have - bacon, butter, salt, fatty meats, rather than lamenting what you can't. [/QB][/QUOTE]"

Again this is different from what my family member is doing on his doctor's orders.

Now people doing the ketogenic diet for Lyme purposes probably don't have to be as strict as someone doing it to control diabetes - as my husband is doing. So perhaps for others, the lack of nutrition can be overcome.

My point to others is that the true ketogenic diet is VERY restrictive. Please only do it under a doctor's supervision.

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faithful777
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I don't agree that everyone needs to be under a doctor's supervision.

I eat under 20 carbs a day and don't feel deprived at all. Fat is very satiating and I feel 100% better eating this way. I pretty much still eat the same kind of veggies.

I eliminated starchy everything during Lyme treatment. I got fat during treatment. Eliminating starches helped me start to lose weight before I started eating this way.

It is suggested that you take a multi vitamin while doing this way of eating if you are true ketogenic.

Certainly, if you feel you need your doctor to monitor you, then do that. I check ketones a few times a week with a blood ketone monitor.

I have been Ketogenic since last summer and my primary doctor is thrilled. My blood work is stellar.

--------------------
Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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lightfoot
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Faithful, is it possible that you posted an incorrect link to your preferred group? It looked like a commercial site?

--------------------
Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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faithful777
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Yes, it is the wrong link. Here is the correct one.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/Ketodietplan/

They are doing a 60 day challenge right now to help people stay on tract.

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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lightfoot
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If you are worried about not getting the nutrients one needs for good health, read these accounts. The one year controlled study is quite convincing.

Adventures in Diet
Part 1 By Vilhjalmur Stefansson
http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson1.htm

Stefansson's account and one year supervised experiment on Inuit diet:
http://www.drbass.com/stefansson1.html

--------------------
Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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lightfoot
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Thanks. Faithful.....I'll check it out! [Smile]

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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terv
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I have eaten a low carb diet for many years. Mostly because I was on abx. I have no idea if I was ever in ketosis.

During that time I had two Genova stool tests done that (among other things) evaluated my GI Microbiome. Both tests showed that my SCFAs were really out of range. This was probably largely due to the abx.

I looked for studies regarding the effect of the ketogenic diet on the microbiome but couldn't fine anything.

So has anyone had a GI Stool test done while on the ketogenic diet? If so were your microbiome numbers in range?

Or does anyone know of any studies looking at the effect of the ketogenic diet and the microbiome?

I am trying to figure out if this diet would be good in rebuilding the gut.

Thanks

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Nula
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Been there, done that. I was on a ketogenic diet for a few months because my gut couldn't tolerate most carbs. The diet did help my gut, but didn't help my Lyme symptoms.

I haven't read all responses, but a very low-carb diet (i.e. ketogenic) can increase cortisol levels and mess up hormones (especially in women). It did mess up mine ...

http://chriskresser.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-ruining-your-health/

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I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ...

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faithful777
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If you look at the studies, the opposite is true. Hormones, blood sugar, cortisol, all look great on labs, but it takes more than two months on this way of eating to see a dramatic change in someone who has Lyme.

Athletes are eating keto to improve performance. The link to the article was written by someone who hasn't really read the studies. I have experienced this first hand.

Just remember, as sick as Lyme patients are, any change in their meds or diet isn't going to provide a miracle in a short period of time. It takes time to improve all functions including the immune system.

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Faithful

Just sharing my experience, I am not a doctor.

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lightfoot
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Ditto to what Faithful says above. One big reason the KETO diet is recommended for so many diseases and conditions is because it does control cortisol levels.

Sometimes our labs show something that is a coincidence and related to one of the other factors in our life.

Here is just one link on controlling cortisol....there are many if you do a search.

http://www.stop-being-tired.com/how-a-ketogenic-diet-can-help-manage-cortisol-levels

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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lightfoot
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Just a few comments...

The link I provided is a ketogenic way of life. It has been adapted for weight loss as research from Phinney and Volek progressed over the years. It is adapted to affect the body composition and preserve lean muscle mass with weight loss.

There is scientific evidence that protein does not convert to sugar. Gluconeogenesis: http://ketogains.com/2016/04/gluconeogenesis-wont-kick-you-out-ketosis/

I started out with the medical model myself for weight loss...LCHF. I gained weight and did not enjoy the benefits I enjoy now. Being in ketosis does not guarantee weight loss and high fat is not what puts one into ketosis.

With what I've been doing, once maintenance is reached, fat consumption goes up and protein goes down.

I am always amused when I hear....check with your doctor.

1) Considering what is taught in medical school, I wouldn't depend on what I was told unless the doctor had the interest and extra training to be knowledgeable.

2) Who checks with their doctor on what they are eating now and have been eating in the past???

I believe we have to educate ourselves in all health issues as well as Lyme/CO and be our own advocates.

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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