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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Alpha Lipoic acid and chelation?

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Author Topic: Alpha Lipoic acid and chelation?
6Hypnone
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I just recently was told I can up my dose of ALA to 600-1000.
But then also just read that ALA is a chelation agent...and it could help move metals out, but that means moving them around and may be harmful if you have a metal issue? Which I dont know if I have yet.

Then, I found this:

"Metal Chelation
Lipoic acid may also protect the body against toxic metal contaminants found in the environment and food supply. This multifunctional agent works by chelating these dangerous agents, such as arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury and rendering them inactive so that they can be removed by the body. In animal studies, lipoic acid has been shown to provide protection against arsenic poisoning and to safeguard the liver against the effects of cadmium exposure. Another study also showed that lipoic acid helped protect the delicate nervous system against the harmful effects of mercury poisoning."
over on stopthelymelies.com

Which seems to say it makes them inactive, not move them around. So I'm confused.
Is it safe to take ALA then? Or yet another question I have to bother my doc about? Though I'd think they'd know this already.
I'm hoping, along w/other things, it will help my nerve pain, but if the nerve pain is caused by metals (which i dont know), I dont want to make it worse by moving the metals in my brain or whatever.

Also read that RLA is more potent and could be even worse in this respect.

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Brussels
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dr. K. recommends it a bit later in chelation therapies, not at first.

Don't take it without other binders (such as chlorella, for example).

Reason? It can move metals to difficult places (like the brain). If you take other binders, it is not a big problem.

I find some slides from dr. K here, explaining that ALA is a weak chelator (meaning, it doesn't bind strongly to heavy metals, so that they may get loose in the middle of transport):
----------------------

Alpha Lipoic Acid


- Extends life of other free radical scavengers
in the body by replenishing their missing
electrons, which were lost by previous radical
scavenging activity

- Alpha lipoic acid neutralizes both hydroxyl
and singlet oxygen radicals. It can be
converted in the body to dihydrolipoic acid, as
it is effective in neutralizing peroxyl and
peroxynitrite


- Aids in detoxification of heavy metals, but
most effective in removing mold mycotoxins

- builds and regenerates glutathione levels in cells

- A potent free radical scavenger that regenerates other antioxidants, such as vitamins C and E, and coenzyme Q10.

- Is protective for cells against neurotoxicity and hepatoxicity of other agents

- Weak heavy metal detoxifier and may mobilize mercury stores in body only to relocate them in other tissues

Should be used only as an adjunct to other chelators.


- Limit dosage to antioxidant and insulin receptor
enhancing functions. 600mg/day

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Brussels
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Some tips for helping metal detox.

http://cinak.com/home.php?id=articles/neurotoxin_elimination_english

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6Hypnone
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Well I'm not trying to detox the metal now. I asked at my last in person appt if I should test for heavy metals.My LL said itd be dangerous, as it may go into my brain. She didnt say what test she meant, but after researching, I'm guessing she meant the 6 hr urine challenge test.

So that's why a red flag went up when I read about the ALA. The info above says its a weak chelator so maybe I have nothing to worry about? And I dont take that binding agent. I take charcoal at night tho, 1.5 hours away from food and meds/supps. I dunno if that counts.

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Brussels
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A weak chelator means it will still pull heavy metals off places but the chelator may lose it in the middle of the way.

That means: weak chelator is more dangerous than strong chelator agents like chlorella, or the traditional EDTA, DMPS whatever.

When it is lost in the middle of transport, it will be simply sent somewhere else.

The body has little means to deal with heavy metals because these were inside the earth before recently, mankind decided to dig them out and throw them in the environment (and in cosmetics, food, dentistry, cars, telephones, computers etc).

Had we evolved with loads of heavy metals, that wouldn't be a problem. But we haven't. The solution would be 'take binders with your ALA', then you may have less problems.

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6Hypnone
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So then the answer would be to take the ALA or RLA (I hear RLA is better/stronger, from my reading--thoughts?) together w/the chlorella?
Then I will def ask my doc about this. ALA seems like such a good supp otherwise, I really wanted to see if it could work for me.

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johnbarret
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Well, the problem with chelation it´s that it´s an old way to get toxic metals out, and minerals help with detoxification too.So, anyone that want faster results should use detoxifiers with minerals and vitamins of high absorption rates For example, you need Magnesium, Trace Minerals ( 72 complete minerals formula) and Selenium with a multivitamin and a detoxifier. That´s real quelation, and it´s better than the normal treatment because it´s dialy and it doesn´t have secundary bad effects. Think about that if you are looking for some Real solution! and you should eat spirulina of chlorella (spirulina it´s better) with the tratment because it have lot´s of minerals and it helps in the detoxification process.

[ 02-09-2017, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]

--------------------
John Barret

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Brussels
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John, if it were that easy to pull metals off, I would be a happy person!!

Thanks anyway for the ideas.

----------------------


What binders can we use?



Cholestyramine: A prescription binder, generally used for mold die-off and Lyme disease. This binder is very expensive and may cause digestive discomfort, so I don’t use it quite as often.

Activated charcoal and Takesumi charcoal: Charcoal binds toxins in the stomach and intestines, and is best for someone with looser stools rather than constipation. Charcoal is easily accessible, inexpensive and can be taken as a capsule or mixed in with water or milk/almond milk.


Pectin (apple pectin or modified citrus pectin): Pectin binds toxins in the small and large intestine. This binder adds bulk to the stools and makes them softer and is therefore better for someone experiencing constipation.


Bentonite clay: Clay is a very porous sponge that absorbs water in the digestive tract and draws toxins into the clay for excretion via the bowels. Clay is very safe and has little taste. Clay should be taken with a glass of water to facilitate expansion of the clay. Often clay is paired with psyllium husk fiber.


Zeolite: Zeolite is another type of clay binder. Zeolite does work as a binder in the gastrointestinal tract, however a portion of zeolite is also absorbed into the blood stream and must be eliminated via the kidneys. Because of this, careful dosing is important so as to not place stress on the kidneys. Care should also be taken to not inhale zeolite powder as it has carcinogenic effects on the lungs. Bentonite clay or charcoal are safer options.


Diatomaceous Earth: DE is a silica-based binder derived from fossilized algae. Because of the gentle abrasive effects of silica, DE is great for breaking down biofilms and destroying parasites. DE should be mixed with water and taken on an empty stomach. DE typically has little or no taste, and is easily tolerated.

Chlorella: Chlorella is a green algae that can be used for gentle detox from bio-toxins, and is better suited for a patient with constipation as it largely comprised of soluble fibre. Chlorella also contains insoluble fibre that binds to and absorbs bio-toxins. Chlorella does not deplete minerals and can be taken with or without food. This algae is a very safe option, however it is not as effective of a bio-toxin binder as some of the others.

from
http://draylawilson.com/binders-for-biotoxins/

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Brussels
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What I meant is that if you are still lucky to be able to take MULTI vitamins, MULTI mineral or any MULTI supplements without having a collapse, consider yourself a HAPPY PERSON.

Many of us cannot touch more than one NEW supplement at a time, MONO SUPPLEMENT, I mean, and still suffer to add that supplement for weeks, months or years, literally.

I'm still working on different kinds of zinc supplements, and still haven't found the final solution.

-----------------------------------------

From the list of the dr above, I know zeolite is a hard supplement for many people (myself included).

Even chlorella, that is simply a plant, is a tough one, sometimes.

I do NOT agree with the dr above who said it fits people with constipation. It also fits people with loose stools, it's really a great supplement if you tolerate it.


Charcoal is an easy supplement, but also binds good minerals. So I wouldn't take that more than a week or so (give pauses in between).

Clay, very easy, but I usually feel not much from it.

DE, I never felt anything in the past, but now I do feel something.


But for me, I swear by chlorella, MSM (very good binder, strong), and bear garlic, my 3 favorite binders.

-------------------------
ALA is indeed a good supplement (my opinion), so try to add some type of binder to it.

Read about symptoms of metal intoxication, so that you can recognize if you are taking too much of ALA or not enough binders.

Anything involving moving heavy metals should be done with GREAT care.

I swear that intoxication symptoms are one of the WORST symptoms I ever had.

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Brussels
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16470637

even green tea has some chelation properties.


Green tea catechins as brain-permeable, natural iron chelators-antioxidants for the treatment of neurodegenerative disorders.


Tea flavonoids (catechins) have been reported to possess divalent metal chelating, antioxidant, and anti-inflammatory activities,

to penetrate the brain barrier and to protect neuronal death in a wide array of cellular and animal models of neurological diseases.


This review aims to shed light on the multipharmacological neuroprotective activities of green tea catechins with special emphasis on their brain-permeable, n

ontoxic, transitional metal (iron and copper)-chelatable/radical scavenger properties.

----------------------------------------
From all types of green tea I took, I find Sencha one of the best. It has to be organic though.

I can't tolerate it in great amounts, but a cup a day is fine. Not a strong binder though, but I do feel some light effect from it.

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6Hypnone
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Due to my genetics, I should not have green tea.
I do take charcoal, and my doc wants me to take it everyday. And I take it away from food and supps. I am def. more prone to loose stools.

But for ALA, you need to take the binder WITH it? So that means the binder will not take away from the effectiveness of the ALA, like charcoal would?

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6Hypnone
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I talked w/my lyme doc, and she said yes it moves them around, but it doesn't bind, so therefore didnt have an issue w/my taking it.
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Brussels
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I would read about ALA still, on my own.

Few doctors know about chelation.

Maybe you detox well and don't need binders?

I'm the exact opposite, and will be MORE SICK from toxins (heavy metals) than with infections, without doubt.

I no longer have lyme, but just to add MINERALS to my diet will give me fever, joint pain, tummy pain, headaches, air hunger, heart symptoms, just to mention some of my problems with heavy metals.

If you ask your doctor about adding minerals as supplements, s/he 'll probably say minerals do not chelate, and that you need no binding support.

It's a matter of experience, i guess.

As I told you, dr. K. started treating heavy metals LONG before any lyme doctor even existed (lyme doctors are recent).

He said, ALA is a problem for some patients.

But I guess, as with everything, only when trouble comes, drs and patients may recognize there was a problem.

But it is usually the sickest patients that get most of the trouble. If you are taking loads of antioxidants, you may not feel anything, I suppose?

Charcoal will bind some of the trash, for sure, but it can't be taken for long periods.

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Brussels
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The danger with ALA is that it opens the BBB (blood brain barrier).

Dr. K. spoke about that long ago.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18798293

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16888025


The ALA equation danger is:

weak chelator + open the BBB = ALA may bring heavy metals to the brain through the broken BBB.

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6Hypnone
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Well she didnt deny that it's a chelator. But she said it didnt bind to the metals.
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing, thats just what she told me.
I'll provide a list of what I'm currently on:

Meds:
*Nasonex nasal spray (1 spray once/day)
*Prozac 30 mg
*Allegra 60mg
*Xanax ½ .25
*Liothyronine 5 mcg 1x/day
*Armour thyroid 15 mg
*Nystatin, 50000 IU 3 tabs/day
*Lamisil 250 mg
*BEG spray for marcons (have not started yet as of 2/12)

*Will add cbd oil, slowing increasing dose.
*Thought of adding Low Dose Nalt. But may use cbd instead; both are for nerve pain

Supplements:
*Banderol drops – increasing by one drop every 6 days/alt days (going to stop)
*Activated hydroxy B12 sublingual
*Samento –increasing by one drop every 6 days/alt days (stopped)
*Pinella drops – 10 drops/day
*Vit D 5000 mg
*Selenium (100 mcg/day) (stopped)
*Milk Thistle, 175 mg, and 120 mg Blessed Thistle
*Orthodigest, 1 cap, b4 eating [Dig enzyme] 2x/day
*Alpha-GPC (L-alpha-glycerophosphatidycholine) 300mg 2x/day—going to stop
*Fish oil (I take about 3000 mg)
*Calm G
*Yucca root, 500 mg 2x/day
*Immuwell, 1 cap
*Probiotic (Klaire), 1 cap 2x/day now once/day (as of around 8/13/16)
*Trace minerals, 1 cap (w/molobdenum)
*Zinc Carnosine 37.5 mg (I take about half this)
*Zinc Citrate 30 mg
*Magnesium Threonate, 300 mg (I take 150); 2000 mg magtein
*Magnesium Citrate, 200 mg 2x/day
*Lithium Oronate, 5 mg
*Alpha Lipoic Acid 300 mg, divided—may increase to 600
*NAC, 5 mg—going to stop
*NADH, 5mg
*Japanese Knotweed, 500 mg 3x/day
*Tumeric, 500 mg/day; (upped to 1000 mg as of 1/22)
*Activated charcoal—1.5 hours after supp/med/food
**topical Gluathione as oxycell, 1 pump


I'm stopping some due to she didnt think they were doing much, and in relation to my genetic readouts.

I do take the charcoal everyday, since dec; they told me it was ok to keep taking.

Posts: 176 | From sw suburbs of chicago, Illinois | Registered: Mar 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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