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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » relapse in fall

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Author Topic: relapse in fall
ilovedogs
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Hi All
This is the second fall in a row I have relapsed. Thankfully, this year is not as bad as last. I do the exercise requirement, watch my diet, etc. I have had lots of stress and try to manage it as best I can. Apparently not enough however.

Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts. I'm thankful for you all!

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Bartenderbonnie
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Oh I feel your pain, ilovedogs.

I am petrified when September arrives.
I get so sick that it takes months to feel half normal.

I ve never found a researched article on why this happens.
Allergies, mold, barometric pressure, stress all play a part.

I just recieved my 1st low dose immunology shot.
No noticeable inprovements yet. Researched data suggests 2 or 3 injections in 2 month intervals provide marked improvements. My LLMD seems to think this is caused by seasonal allergies. I will update my progress.

Maybe this might be of use:

http://www.autoimmunemom.com/environment/cold-weather-impact-autoimmune-disease-flares.html

I hope you feel better. It's horrible to feel so sick and take so long to get better. No way to live, for sure. We deserve better.

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ilovedogs
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Thanks. i'm so happy to hear you're back to work! Big progress. Ive been working 40 hours, working out, living life for the most part. Then in fall I backslide. I need to figure out what the heck is going on.

I will read that article for sure-thanks for the support.

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Bartenderbonnie
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Wow ilovedogs. . . 40 hour work week !
You are one furious doggie. 🐶
So very, very, very, very happy for you. [Smile]

My realistic goal is a 20 hour work week, at this point in time.

Keep up the good work. So proud of you. 💚

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sixgoofykids
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I don't know why that is, but it seems pretty common.

One thought ... the full moons are more powerful in the fall. Most of the country doesn't realize it, they just think the moon looks bigger ... however, the tides are affected more this time of year by the full moon than at other times. They call it the "King Tide".

If it affects the tides so much, it's bound to affect the body as well.

--------------------
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ilovedogs
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Thank you. It's crazy what affects our bodies.

Bonnie-I was very sick like you years ago. I started back at 8 hours, to 16, etc. Slowly working up. You will get there too. Really-you will.

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Charles12
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quote:
Originally posted by ilovedogs:
Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts. I'm thankful for you all!

Lack of sunlight?
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unsure445
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A friend of mine with horses has said that they always relapse in the fall.

I relapse in late spring every single year. Tried to avoid it as best as I possibly could this year but symptoms kicked up.

I think I feel so good by late winter that I go gangbusters with high intensity exercise and taking on too much and it plays a role. This year I got the flu in March and there were some stressful events too.

Any chance you are overdoing it all summer with the longer days and its catching up to you?

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unsure445

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ilovedogs
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That's a possibility-I have been working a lot, working out, etc. But i've been symptom free so guess I thought I could go for it. I'll have to start thinking twice about that.

How long do your relapses last?

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Charles12
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quote:
Originally posted by ilovedogs:
That's a possibility-I have been working a lot, working out, etc. But i've been symptom free so guess I thought I could go for it. I'll have to start thinking twice about that.

How long do your relapses last?

Cardio will depress the immune system for a short period, less than 24 hours, but your immune system rebounds after that and it will be stronger than before.

As the light fades in the fall, you are getting less and less sunlight, therefore less vitamin D. That would certainly impair your immune system.

Most Americans are more active in the summer, and get more sunlight in the summer, and so I would expect most Lyme patients would do better in the summer months.

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ukcarry
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I am usually worse during autumn/fall in UK and tend to associate it with increased mould/fungal spores in the atmosphere. Less light and increased dampness is part of the picture.

Before I knew that I had Lyme (years ago), I noticed that I always had these 'viral' periods in the autumn and to a lesser extent when winter moves into early spring.

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ilovedogs
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thanks all! So next question-how do we prevent a relapse? Is there anything we can do?
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terv
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I was doing great until this spring. Then all my symptoms reappeared. I thought I had been bit again. I didn't think of a relapse.

How do you know the difference between relapse and new tick bite?

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unsure445
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If you are on herbs and you get back to symptom free, stay on the herbs anyway, for at least a year. How long were you symptom free before your llmd said to stop them?

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unsure445

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ilovedogs
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I stayed on herbs for about 4 months I think. But I will take your advice! Once i'm back to better functioning I'm staying on them. Thank you

Hoping it passes quickly. I've heard that each relapse is quicker than the one before but I don't know if that's true. Im definitely doing better this time around as opposed to last year but I got right back on herbs much quicker too. Herxing but not as dreadfully.

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Brussels
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It's difficult to know if it's a new infection or a relapse, in my opinion.

New infection is usually very aggressive (in my case). But my daughter had very strong relapses, very fast too. So I guess, no fixed rules?

I ALWAYS get ill when COLD weather starts. It's been more than 20 years!!!

Like an annual clock!

I get CANDIDA activated in autumn. Before, it was not systematic in autumn, but anytime, on and off. Then slowly, it became my cold spell: every single year for the last 20 years, well, candida activates and makes my life a hell.

I tried all sorts of things, but nothing really worked, except treating active candida the way people usually do.

It made life livable. Vit D3 helps a bit, eating well helps, exercising etc.

Just recently, I'm trying a new technique: diet.

I'm making a thread on raw diet + animal protein diet. I'm still KNOCKING on wood, but my candida is fully STATIONARY!!!!

Cold is here, usually, the color of my hands change, and candida comes, causes inflammation on skin, fingers, toes, joints... It's awful, painful, I get tired, foggy etc.

I have no visible signs of inflammation! It's a miracle for me. But only winter will be the proof, so I'll keep doing that diet, because I'm FED UP of candida.

What the food is doing is the following: it is reactivating my detox pathways. I'm even able to eat apples (that I couldn't due to allergy).

My lymph works so well, my urine is very toxic despite all the water I'm drinking (due to juicing, coconut water, soups...).

I'm betting on this diet now. I also added kimchi, that is the best probiotic for me (as there are many veggies inside it, including garlic and ginger).

I'll only know if this works by the end of February, when usually, my candida stops bothering me.

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ilovedogs
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Hoping this works for you Brussels. Your posts are always so helpful to me!!
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Badtick
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I second staying on the herbs. When I first recovered from a bad case of Lyme, I went 10 years in remission. A continuing herbal protocol is what kept me that way.
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Brussels
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I would add raw garlic, if you stand that. Or garlic pills (freeze garlic ones are the strongest).

Propolis drops daily, whole winter, always helped us.

Vit D3 is a must, in my opinion. Then Magnesium. And for us, chlorella + MSM, to keep clean.

Keep astragalus ON (Buhner suggestion), exercise, eat clean.

I'm recently using the old type of Hulda Clark zapper (that had been in a box for ages), and I did feel effects.

Kimchi kills pretty much everything too (due to garlic + ginger, both raw, and probiotics).

The Chinese say: almost ALL diseases in come from COLD in TCM.

They do not recommend doing the raw diet, like I do, because it still makes the body cold. I'm adding soups and animal protein.

Yesterday, I decided to drink pure coconut milk. Wow. This is very nourishing....

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Bartenderbonnie
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I have been trying everything possible to find a solution and get answers as to why sickness hits so hard in fall.

I started with mainstream allergist and immunologist.
He diagnosised with CVID in January '17.

I went through over 40 allergens skin tests in my back.
All negative.
I went through 7 small needle allergens in upper arm.
All negative.

LLMD also tested me with over 15 small needle allergens in my upper and lower arm.
I had to take pictures of injection sites everyday for 3 days.
She started me on low dose immunology.
I just recieved 2nd shot (every other month).

Haven't noticed any remarkable improvement.
Been sufferring with sinus crap since fall. Now tinnititus and fluid in ears. This is a big problem for me in getting well.

LLMD also told me to buy mattress and box spring cloth covers for mite prevention. I went 1 step further and sprayed everything with Listerine mint mouthwash diluted with water.

I haven't noticed any new bites of any kind so new infection is not likely. Symptoms are still located in head.

Failure is not an option.

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Bartenderbonnie
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Update;

Unfortunately LDI did not work for me.
No noticeable improvements what so ever.
In fact, noticeable decline.

Does this mean I can rule out allergens as catalyst for my decline in progress since Fall ? Common sense would say yes. I have been tested for a lot of different allergens, all negative. So in process of elimination, I'm putting allergies on back burner. .

But looking in my journal, a steady recovery was celebrated daily until late September and then all hell broke loose with supposed allergies.

What else circulates in Fall ? Viruses !

Could this be the culprit that affects so many of us ?
Making us ill. . . Keeping us ill. . . Chasing an invisible demon ?

It sounds and feels like a viable option.
It's brutal living life while chronically ill.
More work to be done, unfortunately.

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Brussels
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Sorry to know you are still fighting this, Bonnie.

I ALWAYS have a problem exactly at the end of fall, when colder temperatures come.

Always = at least 20 years, like clockwork, candida returns by October, November to stay until March, April every SINGLE year, not a single break.

30 years ago, it was not like clockwork, but it slowly became. Fall is when all starts.

This year I tried a different diet (first fasting, then raw only), which seemed to keep my immune system super active, because my body started on a FULL detox mode.

Then cold came, and I felt like I needed to eat cooked again (mixed with raw), which I did (and do).

The trick came when I discovered that milk triggered my symptoms (any milk product, like butter, cream, goat cheese, sheep cheese, etc).

so I stopped it, things got much better, but not 100%.

then I read EGGS fed viruses. So I decided to stop eggs too (that I was eating A LOT).

Wow. Another big improvement. Candida down to zero.

Then came Xmas, let's say, Xmas cakes!!! [Big Grin]

And pralines, Belgian chocolate, some gluten in cakes etc.

Bad bad. [tsk]

Some of the inflammation started to appear again in January. I guess I need to cut chocolate for good. I buy it vegan organic now. No milk, but still there is a bit of sugar.

Plus I'm taking stuff to detox heavy metals, and my candida ALWAYS loves heavy metals! They get dislodged and then candida does party.

But it's only about 10% of what it usually is, so it's still fine. ONly light fog, barely any fatigue.

I hate cold weather.

I guess sauna could help us a bit?

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ilovedogs
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I believe, for me, candida is what's holding me back. Like brussels, I tend to relapse every fall. When I saw my llmd in Oct, she thought clinically my symptoms all pointed to candida. Blood work confirmed this.

Still fighting this, but feeling overall good. Constantly trying to tweak my diet. I know that, for me, I need to clean up my diet.

You'll find your answer Bonnie. It takes lots of trial and error. It did for me anyway.

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Bartenderbonnie
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I finally found my answer, seasonal mold spores.

I have not found the solution to fix this. I have been sick for 2 weeks and getting worse. Extreme fatigue, joint pains, sinus congestion, ears clicking, chest rattling, hot/cold, now feels like full-blown influenza.

Tried mucinex nasal spray, Afrin, Flonase, azelastine, Sillercillin, echinacea, red clover, high dose Vit C, Claritin, Ricola throat drops, nystatin and homemade ginger, cinnamon, honey, green tea.

Is it time to consider an antibiotic? I don't think it would work on mold spores in sinus ?

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Keebler
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-
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=031228;p=0

STINGING NETTLE LEAF (not root) - Links set

The herb, STINGING NETTLE may serve to compensate for the reaction by calming the the cytokine storm that is often part of a herx reaction -- and involved with mold issues as well.
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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/115457?#000000

OLE Links - Olive Leaf Extract - so very valuable in so many ways, especially when symptoms flare for any reason.
-

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Keebler
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Not as a substitute for Nettle Leaf, yet also good to have on the defense team to supply key NUTRIENTS:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/3/36235?#000000

Chlorella & Spirulina - Information Links
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Bartenderbonnie
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Thanks Keebler

Any and all suggestions welcome.
Every year tougher and tougher.
Reeking chaos through-out body.

P.S. To ilovedogs. . . How are you holding up this Fall season?

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Bartenderbonnie
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Would love to know how ilovedogs is doing.

I am very sick now. Went to primary last week. Explained I no longer can afford to see LLMD. Asked if he could order me as many main-stream blood work-ups as possible and I would take it from there, as he is Lyme friendly but not Lyme knowledgable. He's a keeper, ordered 10 tubes of blood and urine samples.

Symptoms;
Fatigue
Tinnititus
Legs give out
Night and day sweats
Bad body ordor
Extreme muscle pain(worst symptoms)
Brain fog
Sore throat
Crying jags
Anxiety and fear

Sure sounds like Lyme.

Blood work shows only band 41 on western blot (good)
EBV sky high
M Pneumoniae ski high
Low Vit D
Low Protein
Low MVP
Low T4
Babesia Microti. Not detected.

So it looks like I was on the right track about viruses being a major factor in my relapses every fall.

Does anyone know of a main-stream doc that would treat me?

I added echinacea supplements plus oil I rubb on my throat nightly. Added nettle leaf, no noticeable inprovements. Juicing, garlic, onions, ginger, green tea, lemons, infusing tree tree oil and cinnamon, herbal cough drops, Epsom salt bath, high dose Vit C (3000mg daily).

Losing the battle. Again.

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duncan
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If you're looking at Babesia, you may wish to test for Babesia duncani. While I would be busy doing that, I'd have a look at my RBCs and Platelets and MCV.

Just some thoughts...BTW, you can test for babesia 10 times, and test negative eigth or nine of the ten, even if you've been infected.

Also, since roughly 25% of infected babesia patients remain asymptomatic, there is an argument that as long as you don't have classic babesia symptoms, you may want to leave sleeping dogs lie. Not sure I subscribe to that gameplan, but I know some researchers who do.

First time I tested positive, I did not treat. Second time, all bets were off, and I am treating.

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kidsgotlyme
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Bartender, sorry you are so sick! I wish I had an answer for you. If I were to get into a situation where I couldn't see my LLMD, I would try the Cowden Protocol. It just seems easy because they have put it all together and all of it is simple to follow and laid out nicely for you.

I have a hard time going from one thing to the next just trying to piece things together for myself. I like the order of Cowden. My LLMD has had some folks who have had some success with it. I hope you find something...anything, that helps you!!

--------------------
symptoms since 1993 that I can remember. 9/2018 diagnosed with Borellia, Babesia Duncani, and Bartonella Hensalae thru DNA Connections.

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Keebler
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-
AIR FLUSH - REFRESH the air in your home

CHECK GAS FITTINGS

For anyone with gas supply to the home / garage for any purpose, whether just one or more (water heater, stove, oven, laundry, house-hold heat)

be sure to always do a full home air flush each day, involving opening cross breeze windows, door & upper level rooms as well.

It need not be so long as to let walls, furniture, textiles get cold yet a real good - literal - flush / exchange of fresh air is vital -- even if all the pipes, tubes or gadgets that bring in the gas to the home or garage are in good shape.

Call your gas provider / check with the non-emergency number for your local fire station for how to arrange a visit to check to be sure there are no leaks. They have special ways to do this.

Also, when operating a gas stove top - just BEFORE turning on the gas, turn on high speed the EXHAUST fan connected to your stove or above it. After it's on and adjusted the fan can be turned down or off.

Repeat this process immediately before turning the burner off, too. Even with the best units and fittings, a small amount of gas usually escapes at the turn on / turn off times. The exhaust will help capture that.

Also take in a good breath of air before turning on / off so that you aren't just whiffing up that bit.

Gas will rise to the higher levels. This is why all rooms, all levels should get a good air flush each day.

And - really - even for home not supplied with gas. There is a lot of off-gassing from carpets, vinyl floors, textiles, cooking (though avoid teflon / plastic coated cookware).

The air in your home matters as much as the air outside. And bring in some of that outdoor air every day (here's wishing it's good, of course. Wood smoke & that particulate matter in many neighborhoods is another matter, sigh).

For those with open electric baseboards, be sure to vacuum, wipe down before turning on heat for season and then each week.

Those with full home air circulation vents, check your equipment guide for anything beyond vacuuming off the air vests. Change filters, etc. to be sure you have a good supply of incoming air.
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Bartenderbonnie
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Mono.
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Lyme248
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Have you tried oregano oil? I think it kills a lot of different things.

Lomatium is supposed to be good for viruses, but I know there is a risk of an allergic reaction. Monolaurin I think is used for viruses, but I can't quite remember.

Have you tried azithromycin for the M. Pnemoniae?

I hope you feel better soon. Viruses are not nice to have.

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chronic Lyme/Bartonella

Inside every sick person is a well person waiting to be freed

Posts: 229 | From new england | Registered: Nov 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bocalyme
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Hi, Bartenderbonnie,

I live in Florida also-- from my name you can guess where-- and am suffering a relapse now that sounds just like yours and also believe our high mold count here in SoFla is the culprit. Anything helping you, yet?

I am on antibiotics and probably all supplements known to mankind-- I see an LLMD in NJ and will have to call her soon. . .

Posts: 42 | From Florida | Registered: Jun 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bartenderbonnie
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Lyme248

Thanks for commenting.
I have been on oil of oregano for 2years. I just discontinued it, it no longer works. I wanted azith for m.pneumonia but primary ordered Amox. I always feel better on azith. Nothing for the high EBV, said it will run its course. Maybe it does in the healthy population, but we have chronic illnesses with dysfunctional immune systems.

I have been sick 2 months now. Lost 5 pounds, muscle and collegen loss.
Each year, same time, harder to treat, lasts longer, more severe.

Bocalyme
Sorry about relapse, life is put on hold again. I believe viruses are what is making many people sick. I have been reading a book by the late Norman Gratz, a pioneer in epidemic public health illnesses;

https://www.amazon.com/Vector-Rodent-Borne-Diseases-Europe-America/dp/0521854474

I have added mondaurin, olive leaf, ashwagandha, basil, rhodola, eleuthero, Asian ginseng, artemisinin, clove, berberine, andrographis, and citrus. I supplement with 100mg pantotheric acid, which is suppose to increase permeability. No noticeable effects, good or bad. I just located some acyclovir(antiviral) which I might start if I don't show some improvement.

I have also doubled up on Claritin.

Hope you feel better soon.

Posts: 1769 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ilovedogs
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Hi All
I've been having a hard time logging on but am back!!

So sorry to hear of these relapses. This is the first fall in many I have not relapsed. Yet anyway! I feel as though my relapses have been due to candida. I have been working hard to eat no sugar and I have exercised regularly. No relapse!!

Relapses are SO frustrating. I am hopeful you will all get through these quickly.
Di

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Bartenderbonnie
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Great news ilovedogs ! 💚
Posts: 1769 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bartenderbonnie
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Day 73 of my Fall relapse.

Spend up to 20 hours a day in bed, severe fatigue, wide-spread pain, teeth, throat and eye pain, canker sore, tinnitis, crying jags, weight loss, just a mess.

4 Doc's and antibiotics.

But. . .

Tonight I'm going to sleep with cut onion in socks. Forgot all about this;

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/136231#000000

Don't count me out just yet. Bartenders are always the last ones standing.

Posts: 1769 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
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-
You say that: "Tonight I'm going to sleep with cut onion in socks. "

You must have leather skin. If I get any onion juice on my hands when chopping onion, it's so miserably irritated for a week or two - it can really burn skin. Be careful.
-

Posts: 47815 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bartenderbonnie
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Thanks.
I just cut the onion, have in bowl near bedside.

Put 2 slices of onion in another pair of socks so it will go over socks I already have on. Might throw a clove of garlic in.

I have really putrid onion smelling body odor already. Agh.

Posts: 1769 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bartenderbonnie
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Update;

It took 8 months to crawl out of this relapse!!!!!

To say I'm scared of this coming September is an understatement.

The reason I'm writing is because I was on Marty Ross's webinar on Thursday. I asked why do I always suffer a relapse in September, after good health and remissions in summer?

His 10 second reply was " Gez, Bonnie, I don't know."

Posts: 1769 | From Florida | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
marie
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I always had panic with the sunlight in the windows and especially at the end of summer.I had read in a biology book that some organisms are more active with changes in season. Also, the sun is at a sharper angle when the seasons change.
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gardenoflyme
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Anyone consider hyper coagulation? Blood will naturally get thicker pre cold weather. If you are already thick- blooded it would get worse. However, I see plenty of people using garlic which does thin the blood.

Just asking because my LLMD has had me on a herbal “warfarin-light” supplement for so many years. I used to hate the mid-late fall as always felt worse too but last two years haven’t seen a change. I’ve been on herbals for that time but each time we try and wean or change then wean, I notice an uptick in minor symptoms.

Just wanted to throw a different slant on the situation.

Fall starts in several weeks. Let’s see how this one goes

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Charles12
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles12:
[QB] Cardio will depress the immune system for a short period, less than 24 hours, but your immune system rebounds after that and it will be stronger than before.

I should correct myself.

Science has changed their mind.

The dip in the immune cells is apparently not actually a dip.

Exercise simply moves those cells out of the blood stream, and into other compartments of the body.

There is no downside to exercise.

Posts: 72 | From Virginia | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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