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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Erythema Multiforme???? Anyone??

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Author Topic: Erythema Multiforme???? Anyone??
lightfoot
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Anyone experience erythema multiforme During the course of having Lyme/Coinfections??

I had it in my mouth a few years ago and now I have it on my face, neck, ears, eyes and anus. There are so many factors at work for me now, I haven't been able to pin down any cause.

When I had it before I found a couple abstracts that connect it to Lyme.

From what I have read, it is a cousin to Steven's Johnson syndrome.

Treatment??? I don't plan on taking steroids.

[ 01-05-2019, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: lightfoot ]

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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lightfoot
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That's not the official dx.....which is seborrhea. Still don't know the trigger....It's been over a month now!!! Yikes!

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Lymetoo
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OUCH .. sounds awful!! Have you had any changes in meds or foods lately?

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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lightfoot
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Thankfully it doesn't go beyond my face but it feels like I have a tight beauty mask on all the time....it's the dry type. I think the bottom line is an immune response.

The chelation is my first priority and the worst thing is I'm off all treatment.....we have no idea what the trigger is.

Thanks for your response!!!

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Keebler
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Oxalates in certain veggies / fruit - or nuts ? Certain spices, culinary herbs, too.

Turmeric, for example is high oxalate (but not its extract: curcumin - that's somewhere in one of Sally Norton's presentations).

Smoothies, especially can be to the moon in oxalates and the crystals can cause all kinds of pain and torture.

Have you touched any plants lately?

Check your lip balm / personal care products even if they've done well for you before, some ingredients could be contributing. I found a lip balm to be at fault for half my face revolting for a long time. Sigh.

Any new textiles in your home (though, that's not an oxalate connection, though chemcial irritants could be on fabrics)?

No need to reply, just for the check list.

While perhaps not (though maybe) the direct link, the main cause (though it could be) - yet even if a contributor - you might check your diet for foods that contain even moderate oxalates and avoid them for a couple weeks.

And take magnesium CITRATE.

Oxalate reactions can express in all kinds of issues in and on the body. I've just been watching a bunch of lectures on this so it comes to mind.

There are various "High" and "Low" Oxalate lists out there though some conflict so it can take a while to sort it all out but it's well worth the effort.

Those with "Leaky Gut" (from infections, etc.) are more likely to have trouble with oxalates even when in "moderate" range and might need to go very low.
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[ 01-18-2019, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Ideally, I hope you can stream YouTube to your TV and stretch back and watch in comfort. While some of these are very long - there is so much great detail here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=i7ArmIYGH0s

Lost Seasonality and Overconsumption of Plants: Risking Oxalate Toxicity

Sally Norton, MPH - AHS 2017 - 38:43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqriDbkhlU0

RealFat Radio -VIDEO podcast EP 0013 - 1:52:42

Sally Norton, MPH talks with us about oxalates, plant toxins . . .

- here they get into some of the skin reactions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdRBFiBWQZQ

Little Shop of Horrors? The Risks and Benefits of Eating Plants - Georgia Ede MD

AHS 2012 - 29:58


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnjX3cZ4q84

Plant Food Toxins in an Evolutionary Context

George Diggs, Ph.D. - AHS 2014 - 47:28
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[ 01-18-2019, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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Any lip balm / other skin products that contain mint or even some other "natural" ingredients can cause trouble. It took me a long time to figure this out.

Rosemary, a good natural preservative and good antioxidant & delicious culinary herb, can be terribly irritating to some lips / skin / mouths / stomachs.

Just yesterday, this caught my eye.

While I shy far away from petroleum products, I was forced to use a Vaseline lip therapy for months to resolve my face problem.

Everything (literally dozens over time) I tried "natural" really irritated me. In light now of the oxalate detail, that might make more sense as I continue to unravel the connections.

Also of help, though, months on a very low carbohydrate, high healthy fat and moderate protein diet. I was able to follow blood glucose with a friend's monitor and test strips she gave me. Keeping blood sugar below 100, even after a meal, seems to really help my skin.

back to the lip balm possibility:

Although peppermint is low oxalate (at least according to one chart I consulted) in lip balm, lotions, its oil can be too strong.

Diet, along with avoiding possible skin irritants might both need to be part of a plan to see how it might improve.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chapped-lips-balm-chapstick_n_5c3cfd2fe4b01c93e00ca914

5 Things That Can Make Chapped [or Irritated] Lips Worse, According To Dermatologists

You may not like what dermatologists have to say about your flavored lip balm.

By Julia Brucculieri - Huffington Post - Jan. 16, 2019
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lightfoot
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This is an interesting configuration. There is a line of demarkation on the edge of my hairline and under my chin to just a small bit of neck. It also goes just a tad under my ears.

It looks like a sunburn. It is way beyond dry and the skin peels and sheds. It is swollen which gives it a stretched feeling. Luckily the lips, mouth and eyes are not be affected.

However the anus and vagina are affected. That was what tipped to the idea of Erythrema Multiforme which I had in 2014. Steven Johnson's Syndrome is part of the same spectrum. This would be a mild case if that's the case. Some cases are life threatening so I'm lucky.

I think it could be the DMSA. I'll look at the links, Keebler.

I do think it's an inside job. I'm pretty careful about external exposures and food. The main thing that's new and different is the DMSA.

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Lymetoo
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I would sure try leaving it out for awhile. If that doesn't work, look into salicylates. Many of us have a sals sensitivity.

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lightfoot
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tutu, I've been off of everything for over a month and I just finished a three day water fast.

Worst thing is.....my treatment is at a standstill, Rocephin, chelation for high mercury and lead and a six week parasite protocol.

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Keebler
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I do not write about DMSA. That's for heavy metals and I had a really bad experience with it.

What I did write about earlier in the thread was oxalate (salt /crystals) toxicity. Thas nothing to do with DMSA whatsoever.

However, a water fast can make heavy metals come out at a speed that has risk

Back to oxalate toxicity - If that is on board a 3-day water fast could make it much worse actually for reasons in the links above.

Low oxalate foods are important but going without any food can be risky. Meats, cooked to the very tender & moist point are good / with good fats, including animal fats (best from grass pastured / eggs - as are veggies that are on the low oxalate lists.

Cauliflower, cabbage family, mushrooms all on the good low list..

The links above give detail for how to gradually embark on going low - and which supplements to help - calcium citrate in certain porportion to magnesium citrate and K citrate.

Unless you have been on a ketogenic diet and are fat adapted, a water fast also risks hypoglycemia. Even then, a water fast can be very dangerous. Bone broth with sea salt - and other key elements such as potassium in just the right amount & frequency - is important to help with mineral and electrolyte balance.

I hope things do start going better for you.
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Keebler
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Personally, I think full on fasting, especially a days long water fast - for a very ill person can be very dangerous and not worth the torture at all. It's going to put undo stress on the heart -- adrenals / create high cortisol stress on the body. And that corisol is toxic, too, in excess.

This is regarding those who have been ketogenic for some time and are "fat adapted" - that is the body has been used to burning fat from diet / body. Still,. some of the risks to consider with fasting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1r8ffLDFcE&feature=youtu.be

Dr. Stephen Phinney - 'Metabolic Effects of Fasting: A Two-Edged Sword'

20:05 - from Conference: Low Carb Breck 2018 at Breckenridge, Colorado
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Keebler
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http://www.thevpfoundation.org/

The Vulvar Pain Foundation

- a wealth of detail here about the oxalate toxicity connection and what to do about it

The audio interviews in posts above with Sally K. Norton discuss in length the vulvondynia issues, skin issues and all other symptoms you describe, too.
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lightfoot
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Keebler....I don't have any pain or symptoms listed on the website, Vulvar Pain Foundation.

I eat little to zero foods listed as high oxalate.

Although I am a great fan of Phinney, I don't agree that fasting is dangerous. I have experienced nothing but benefits. This last three day fast was to give my system a needed rest. It also definitely eliminates food as the trigger.

I am back to an immune response. I also think it was while in coming. Perhaps I need to get back to the IVIG.

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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Keebler
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You posted yesterday: " . . . There is a line of demarkation on the edge of my hairline and under my chin to just a small bit of neck. It also goes just a tad under my ears.

It looks like a sunburn. It is way beyond dry and the skin peels and sheds. It is swollen which gives it a stretched feeling. . ." &

" . . . however the anus and vagina are affected. . . . " did I misinterpret that?

All of those things - skin troubles anywhere - can be signs of oxalate toxicity.

In the talks with Sally Norton - and Sallie Godwin in the RealFat video talks about her trouble with "skin peels and sheds" For what it's worth.
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lightfoot
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Thanks for your posts and help!

As luck would have it.....this evening the condition seems to be resolving in the same order it appeared.

With the vagina and anus.....it's the mucous membrane. I'm not in any ongoing pain.

Since my diet has been low in oxalates and salicylates for many moons, I don't think I am affected by either.

I'll keep you updated on the situation.

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Healing Smiles.....lightfoot [Smile] [Smile] [Smile]

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