LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter



Tax deductible

The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.
In the United States, your donations are tax deductible.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Is fat consumption causing diabetes?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Is fat consumption causing diabetes?
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/11/17/fat-is-the-cause-of-type-2-diabetes/


https://ucdintegrativemedicine.com/2016/09/diet-diabetes-saturated-fats-real-enemy/#gs.GNs5MGuL
----------------------------------------

https://www.masteringdiabetes.org/fruit-for-diabetes/

Fruits help to prevent diabetes type 2 and helps in many other types of diseases.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
We will likely never agree, yet for others who might want a wider range of material to consider as they ponder the best approach for their own bodies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CHGiid6N9Q&feature=youtu.be

Nina Teicholz at TEDxEast: The Big Fat Surprise

20-minute TED TALKS presentation

The data in her book:

https://thebigfatsurprise.com/

THE BIG FAT SURPRISE
Why Butter, Meat & Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet

by Nina Teicholz

shines light on some of the old "studies" or tricks of new claims about fat, in general. And which are good and which are dangerous.

She also teaches us HOW to figure out the veracity of typical "studies" to trace the credibility of authors, see who is paying them to say what, etc.

Actually, she explains why good fats are good for humans. She spent ten years just on researching the data for the book.

And, no, good fats do not cause diabetes (though in the presence of too much sugar, the sugar can damage).

Too much sugar, even from fruit, can cause damage. It's the amount that matter most here. A half-cup or one cup a day of dark berries can work for some, but not for all. Beyond that, it's important to test glucose levels to keep on top of that.


The book: The Big Fat Surprise by Nina Teicholz is an excellent place to see the data in her ten years of researching this. She has many presentations as well.

She discusses the difference in fats that matter. Industrialized vegetables oils (from some such as corn, canola) can be very dangerous. However, fat from animals can help in so many ways.

Other researchers suggest: Even better from grass pastured ruminant animals not fed corn. but if all one can afford is the typical meat, when sugars are low in the diet, many medical markers improve.

The myth about animal / saturated fats was just that: a myth to see margarine, etc.

And, even the liver does well with animal fats, avocados, etc.

And, for those who prefer vegetarian diet, tips are offered by many of those from the links set -- what to avoid, what helps.

The work of Gary Taubes regarding how carbs work (or which ones don't) also goes hand in hand.

It's important to consider what both Taubes and Teicholz bring to the table. My posts cannot do their work justice.

Again: I do hope people will consider the links set above and get a glucose testing kit so they can see for themselves, in their own bodies, how they do with certain foods regarding glucose levels.

For a good foundation to health , nothing really matters more than glucose stability for it affects everything else. Everything. Again, I suggest the lectures of "Ivor Cummins" at YouTube. He explains why I say this far better than I can.

Even better to add: the works of Prof. Timothy Noakes. He was a high carb runner who developed diabetes. He saw the terrible drawn out death his father had with diabetes and he studied and started low carb high fat approach.

He reversed his own diabetes.

https://thenoakesfoundation.org/

The Noakes Foundation - Educational resources / data
-

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Each person's response to certain foods can vary. Best to get a glucose test kit so see for one's self.


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuJ11OJynsvHMsN48LG18Ag

Dr. Richard K. Bernstein - a video guide to normal blood sugars


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_odM7TZwtM

Q18: Should Diabetics Eat Fruit?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6LL92Zs5L0

Dr. Gary Fettke - YouTube "Is Fruit Good or Bad ?" 22:42

(my words) orthopedist who got tired of doing amputations on his diabetic patients and turned to low carb / high fat plans and has seen diabetes reverse for many.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESL3_7sdCwU

Dr. Sarah Hallberg "How Food Affects Blood Sugar"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEoYRvAdwaw

What about Fruit on a LCHF Diet?

[my words: even if one is not on LCHF food plan, detail here is still important about how fruit sugars affect many with glucose metabolism issues]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-gRrYm0EGg

Gary Taubes - The Quality of Calories - Oct. 2018


If we are not diabetic, there are ways to avoid the damage of that . . . mostly by limiting our sugars (carbohydrates) . Type 2 Diabetes is very often preventable.

And if we have insulin resistance, pre-diabetes or diabetes, there are ways to reverse this. Exploring the Virta Health website is a good start to one's personal research on how food affects our blood glucose levels:

https://www.virtahealth.com/

Virta Health


How government "food pyramids / guidelines" got it so very wrong:

https://www.nutritioncoalition.us/the-issue

Nutrition Coalition

For Dietary Policy Based on Rigorous Science

3-minute video with Nina Teicholz, nutrition researcher
-

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://youtu.be/fRZduVxlP_U

A very easy 5 minute video about how fat causes insuline resistance in a few hours!

the doctor mentions exactly keto diet causing that.

the whole mechanism that happens intracellular is clearly shown.

it's good we show both side of the coin. People are big enough to decide on their own.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
My own experience is opposite of this. Fat stabilizes my blood glucose. A ketogenic diet absolutely does not raise blood glucose, not when being done correctly.

See the work of THE CHARLIE FOUNDATION
-

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
https://foodrevolution.org/blog/how-to-eat-to-prevent-diabetes/

"Red and Processed Meats

At first glance, it may seem like the dietary effects on diabetes would be only relevant to carbohydrate-containing foods.

The more low-carbohydrate, high-protein foods in your diet, the better; those foods don’t directly raise blood glucose.

However, that is a too simplistic view of the development of type 2 diabetes.

Type 2 diabetes is not only driven by elevated glucose levels, but also by CHRONIC INFLAMMATION, OXIDATIVE stress, and alterations in CIRCULATING LIPIDS (fats).

Many diabetics have come to believe that if sugar and refined grains and other high-glycemic foods raise blood sugar and triglycerides, they should avoid them and eat more animal protein to keep their blood glucose levels in check.

However, SEVERAL STUDIES have now confirmed that HIGH INTAKE OF MEAT increases the risk of diabetes.

A META-analysis of 12 STUDIES concluded that high total meat intake increased type 2 diabetes risk 17% above low intake, high red meat intake increased risk 21%, and high processed meat intake increased risk 41%."

----------------
Here is the meta study (just abstract).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19662376

Meta study study based on 12 studies on meat consumption increasing the risk of diabetes.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
The Nina Teicholz book and lectures also shine a light on the Red Meat theories that have been debunked and how that all got so out of hand in the first place.


For three years now, the VIRTA HEALTH low carb / high fat / ketogenic approach for hundreds of patients also

see that carefully selected kinds of fats in a set amount stabilizes blood glucose.

These patients are all on continuous glucose monitors linked to their smart phones so the doctors can track, and trace back each minute of each day.

With a fat based diet (moderate protein, mostly of meat / fish. . . and low carb) their blood glucose is holding steady. When someone varies from the plan, it can show in the meter graph - as a teaching moment.

https://www.virtahealth.com/research

Virta Health - Research / Data
-

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If high intake of meat increases the risk of diabetes to even 41%, and diabetes is also linked to high inflammation, more oxidative stress, even to cardio-vascular diseases, well, read then:

high meat intake will also contribute to increase inflammation and oxidative stress.

Which is logic, because meats are extremely acidic, and pathogens thrive on acidic milieu.

Inflammation also increases in acidic milieu.

We, people who got lyme or chronic infections, know what oxidative stress is.

I think at least 90% of our symptoms are due to oxidative stress.

I have been a meat consumer (I still am) my whole life. Only sometimes, I lower the amount of meat.

Now I'm on an extreme low meat consumption.
Barely any. I'm just trying the theory to see if it works for me.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Virta health study is just a one year study, Keebler.

After going grain free, low processed foods, people will improve, of course.

You gotta see that in 5 years, 10 years from now, if their liver will support that.

------------

Of course, if you don't eat sugar, they won't find sugar in the blood. How can they find?

But that does NOT correct insulin resistance.


Add sugar and see what happens. If the sugar levels fall after a couple of hours, it means insulin is working.

It means that diabetes is then healing / healed.

that's what happened on the high fruit Chinese study above.

I doubt this will happen on high fat, high meat (I mean, that people heal from insulin resistance).

Diabetes is not exactly high blood sugar: we all have peaks of sugar.

Diabetes mean insulin resistance, that insulin can't make sugar enter the cells anymore.

If you don't find sugar because you don't eat any sugar, it means nothing to diabetes.

if you don't find sugar in the blood after eating sugar (wait some time for insulin to work) , it means EVERYTHING to diabetes healing.

These guys on the Chinese study were followed for 7 years. They were eating low fat, low salt, high fruit, high veggie.

It means, they were eating LOADS of sugars, but their blood sugar was low. It means, they have less insulin resistance.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Virta Health is in their third year. For the most current data, see the various presentations / interviews at YouTube with "Dr. Sarah Hallberg"

They also follow what some doctors successfully suggested for diabetes over a hundred years ago with the BANTING DIET

Duke University's Dr. Eric Westman has been using this approach - successfully for many - for over ten years (maybe 20, I forget).

The LCHF approach is not HIGH meat, but MODERATE protein. Yet, yes, people are reversing insulin resistance and even diabetes with low carb / high fat / moderate protein.

The "high" is about percentage compared to the other foods - measured in GRAMS - though, people are not sitting down to big bowls of ghee.
-

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MattH
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 30846

Icon 1 posted      Profile for MattH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Chiming in with my own experiences on this topic. There are numerous studies underway since the Keto diet has had significant success.

From the post above ....

"These guys on the Chinese study were followed for 7 years. They were eating low fat, low salt, high fruit, high veggie.

It means, they were eating LOADS of sugars, but their blood sugar was low. It means, they have less insulin resistance."

To me that is not what it means. I do not believe they were eating loads of sugar. It means they were eating what they were eating. What is the actual sugar content or amount in grams of the meals or per day? Were they burning up the carbs with work and exercise? Is it broken down by simple and complex sugar, most bodies treat the two differently. I have spent the last couple of years working to bring my blood sugar down because I am pre-diabetic.

I have no history of it in my family and think the Lyme disease and all the antibiotics and higher sugar diet (lots of simple carbs) is the reason. Since I have lowered my sugar intake and increased my good fats I am doing much better.

I have listened to 100s pod casts on the topic and an now doing intermittent fasting. I follow a more Keto diet during the week. I have listened to numerous MDs and PhD's including Dr. Westmann with his having phenomenal success at Duke and he lectures around the world. His clinic was not getting the results before he changed the diet protocol. Numerous world class athletes are using this approach because the body has more energy reserves from fats than from sugar stores. So endurance racers can use fat for energy longer than the sugar reserves.

There are so many current treatment and success stories by Dr. Jason Fung, Dr. Westmann, Dr. Adam Nally and numerous others that helped patients improve insulin resistance with very low sugar, medium protein, and high fat, intermittent fasting, sleep, and exercise that it is hard "for me" to believe the opposite when my personal life experiences and personal research do not support that approach.

However I may be metabolically different. For a real surprise look what introducing lots of carbs has done to the Pima Indians of Arizona, pretty sad results. We are definitely not all the same metabolic types.

So for me clearly the high fat (meat and coconut oil), moderate protein, and low or no simple carbs is working for me!!

All the Best, MattH

Posts: 605 | From Houston Texas | Registered: Mar 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The main tendency out there is to fuel fats and animal (or plant) proteins to everybody - the keto or paleo type of diet.

I agree this is the LATEST trend.

As Keebler said, these 'long' studies are STARTING year 3 now.

What are 2 years of study in chronic disease?

All these diets are still in testing phase (as I said, these are the latest fads).

It doesn't mean the latest, the best.

These keto-paleo diets ALSO cut on processed foods, gluten or grains, increased veggies which alone can show some improvements in health (compared to a full SAD diet).

If fats were all we need, why adding bits of fruits here and there? You theoretically do not need any fruit sugar in this theory. Zero, right?

All you need were carbs present in veggies.

Why adding then fruits?

To get some of the anti oxidant effects that are LARGELY lacking in a pure veggie + fat + protein diet.

That's my opinion.
----------------------------------------

If you haven't checked how insulin resistance appears, you may be missing a very important link.

Are your food allergies /sensitivities disappearing?

Are minerals going where they are supposed to go?

Or are you guys still with the MTHF gene defect, HPU/ KPU defect like I was?

Look, this is the 1st year in the last 25 years that I had NO FOOD allergy (I mean, fruit allergy).

Until last year, I was afraid I was going to be get still another disease label: MCAD label. Yes, food allergies just kept growing.

Also for my daughter. My husband used to be the healthiest of all. He hasn't bought into the veggie + high fruit consumption + low fat + low protein yet.

His allergies do not budge, but increase with the years.

I feel now on a safer ground than all the previous decade (that I was already lyme free).

The worst for me is to be suffering with all these sensitivities, not being able to eat anything, I was losing weight (slow but surely), my skin looked bad with spider veins and super thick veins on my hands that scared children away.

Gone, gone, gone. I'm slowly stabilizing my weight, my thick veins on hands are 90% gone (that alone convinced my 14 year old daughter to join me), and the amazing thing are food allergies: I think they are ALL gone!

It's really unbelievable. I got tested for fructose intolerance, which was showing just before this new high fruit low fat diet. Indeed, eating fruits made me feel uneasy.

Now I know why? Excess of fats in the blood. I'll try to look for the video of the guy 'becoming' diabetic in 6 hours. Just give me some time, I have to go out now.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
While you guys concentrate on eating high fat, high protein (specially if on animal protein), you'll be making your body acidic.

Fats and animal protein are OXIDATIVE to the body.

They contribute cell damage, early cell death, they are acidic-forming foods that make the blood acidic, you tissues acid.

Whatever studies you guys show, there will be always the contrary showing the opposite.


I prefer to use my own head and my body's reaction to decide what is good for me.


Knowing that multiple infections cannot be targeted one by one due to complexity, synergy between pathogens and low immunity, and also pathogen resistance to most treatments, I would choose an approach that makes my body stronger:

- more anti oxidants, to reinforce immune cells (fruits and veggies abound from anti oxidants, while fats and animal protein are oxidative).

- more alkaline blood values, to discourage pathogen growth (only fruits and veggies do that, no matter what you guys say)

- more blood fluidity (fats clog your blood and arteries, not allowing white blood cells, red blood cells to circulate, and also block nutrient flow)

- clogging red blood cells to move around with high fats = less oxygen floating!!! = more pathogens thrive on oxygen poor environment

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Please do not misquote me and twist my words: I did not say this:

you say: "As Keebler said, these 'long' studies are STARTING year 3 now.

What are 2 years of study in chronic disease? " (end quote)


I said that Virta Health in into year three of their program. Not at all the same thing.

There is over a hundred years' research on this, I mentioned the BANTING diet that was used before insulin was created and the Banting diet worked well.

There are also so many other studies beyond the 3 year program at Virta Health. And others are doing the studies, too, not just Virta. There is ongoing research to explore as well as the past, and shifting out what was wrong about past papers, too.


Again, the low carb / high fat approach is NOT high protein. It is moderate protein.

And fat does not raise glucose. Fat - yes, even saturated, especially saturated fats are good for us. Nina Teicholz' book and lectures explain that. Read the links.

She explains the differences between good & bad fats and the best meats for the nutritional density (ruminants).

Dr. Peter Ballerstadt (sp?) has in many lectures also explained just how ruminants & grazing animals can transform grass into nutritional density.

I've seen hundreds of presentations and gone over many papers and books. I know what I'm talking about but there is a disadvantage in being forced to defend impressions.

See the links. There are explanations there - and this is not a fade or trend. It's people - and doctors - doing a course corrections and lessening pain and saving lives of those who deal with insulin & glucose problems.

By the way, in some posts above a "low salt" diet was mentioned. Other than for those with certain issues, a low salt diet can be dangerous and harm the kidneys and adrenals.

Sea Salt, rather than process table salt is best and - for those following the LCHF approach, at least 5 grams of sea salt a day is usually needed, along with magnesium and potassium, etc.

Dr. Eric Westman & Dr. Stephen Phinney are just two of the top doctors reminding patients of the "Well Formulated" LCHF or Ketogenic food plans.

Prof. Timothy Noates, with the Noates Foundation - his work / their work is stellar, just stellar. A very good place to learn.

The "well formulated" part of all this requires a good bit of homework and best with medical guidance especially for those on glucose Rx . . . yet this is not new, not new at all.

It is not for everyone, of course, yet for many, this is saving lives.
-.

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Charlie Fitzgerald
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 50657

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Charlie Fitzgerald     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The blame on fats and meat has been going on for decades and there's many, I mean many Americans still falling for it.

"50 Years Ago, Sugar Industry Quietly Paid Scientists To Point Blame At Fat"

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/09/13/493739074/50-years-ago-sugar-industry-quietly-paid-scientists-to-point-blame-at-fat

Just like how IDSA/CDC Doctors and Scientists were lobbied and paid off by Big Pharma and Health Insurance companies to put propaganda out on Lyme Disease. Processed food companies like Coca Cola are still putting out propaganda to shift the blame on fat instead of carbs and sugar.

Look at most the foods in your Grocery store, everything is loaded with carbs, and laced with sugar. Everything!!!!

While food fried in high saturated oils can't be good for you, if you eat baked chicken, fish or pan fry foods like steak in a healthier oil like olive oil you'll be just fine.

It's hilarious when I still see this blame on fats, while people that have gone on Vegan diets, Vegetarian diets... These same people are still woofing down soy ice cream, processed foods, and foods high in carbs. They are still over weight!

This isn't rocket science folks, eat whole foods, eat baked meats and vegetables, cut out the carbs and sugars, and you'll see the pounds melt off.

Posts: 101 | From US | Registered: Jul 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745

Icon 1 posted      Profile for bcb1200     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I was just about to post that article. I sugar is the enemy. Not fat.

--------------------
Bite date ?
2/10 symptoms began
5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors

IgM Igenex +/CDC +
+ 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93

Currently on:

Currently at around 80% +/- most days.

Posts: 3087 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Charlie Fitzgerald
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 50657

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Charlie Fitzgerald     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by bcb1200:
I was just about to post that article. I sugar is the enemy. Not fat.

There's just so much propaganda to confuse people, you have to question some of these studies, especially knowing the history of lyme and how easily doctors and scientists can get bought off and influenced by corporations. I still see people walking around worried about calories, fat, etc...

Your body needs fat!!!!

Your brain is 60% fat. The cholesterol from fat makes testosterone.

Healthy fatty foods can easily be burned off versus processed foods loaded with carbs and sugar.

The part that confuses people and they start demonizing meat and fats is when they're buying and eating nothing but processed meat from fast food and grocery stores like the chicken and fish battered in flour, which is just loaded with carbs. Then these people end up frying this same battered chicken, making it even worse, this is where the unhealthy fats play a role.

People get this idea that meat is unhealthy. Yes, if you fry anything it will be unhealthy and load it up with carbs. I know plenty of people that can't eat meat without loading it up with flour and frying it.

Then after they get a stroke, heart attack, they all of a sudden go from one extreme to the next, like Kevin Smith did https://youtu.be/0FO_Hr1JaKA

Chances of Kevin getting enough healthy fats, healthy cholesterol and protein from just eating vegetables isn't practical.


Again, bake your chicken, bake your fish... Just use seasoning to flavor your food.

And of course complementing the meat with your choice of vegetables on the side.

It's absolutely amazing and sad how many people are struggling with their diets these days, the CDC says by 2050 1 in 3 will be diabetic.


Eat whole foods, no processed foods. If you want to put sugar on something like sweet potatoes, use Stevia.

If you want something to munch on, eat some nuts and fruits. There's people who take even fruits to the extreme with some of these stupid juice machines. First of all, a juicer strips you of all the pulp and fiber, then just leaves you with a lot of fructose.


But hey, I do not blame the people. There's so much propaganda, lies, commercials, obstacles, the fact that 80-90% of the food in grocery stores is processed garbage. I wish the best for everyone, but having an unregulated free market where you let corporations do anything isn't working out for human beings or this planet.


Watch these documentaries, maybe this will help you understand that problem of obesity and diabetes is carbs and sugar

Fed Up - https://youtu.be/aCUbvOwwfWM
That Sugar Film - https://youtu.be/6uaWekLrilY

Posts: 101 | From US | Registered: Jul 2017  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
Leading excerpt:

". . . Calorically, that breaks down to 10 percent or fewer calories from carbohydrates, 10-20 percent from protein, and 70 percent from fat. . . .")

Re: Reversing Type 2 Diabetes & other tough issues with

Low Carb High Fat / Nutritional Ketosis (Ketogenic Diet)

Only three slight misinterpretations here in the food lists. Especially, the portrayal of "all you can eat" in the article - is more accurately guided as: eat until full & satisfied.

While many of the green veggies might be seemingly unlimited, berries are still absolutely limited, though, to 1/4 - 1/3 cup occasionally.

Any question is cleared up by Virta Health program guides and by other doctors who use this approach. Virta Health's program is in year three and still doing very well.

Overall, excellent reporting.

http://www.startribune.com/the-risk-reversal-diet/506242362/

The risk-reversal diet

Errant beliefs about food and health engineered a diabetes crisis, and a simple, sustainable way of eating can end it.

By Paul John Scott - The Minneapolis Star-Tribune - Feb. 22, 2019

Excerpts:

. . . According to dozens of peer-reviewed findings

— the most persuasive being a recent long-term controlled dietary trial out of Indiana —

it has become apparent that shifting diabetic patients toward a calorically-unrestricted low-carbohydrate, high-fat dietary pattern known as “nutritional ketosis” can safely and sustainably reverse diabetes.

As reported last year in the journal Diabetes Therapy by lead investigator

Sarah J. Hallberg of Indiana University Health and the dietary coaching firm Virta Health, the physician-directed, app-delivered LCHF intervention reversed diabetes in 60 percent of patients.

That’s not a typo. At a one-year mark in the venture capital-funded study, 60 percent of 262 rural, obese, long-term diabetic patients who were coached on how to eat LCHF dropped and remained below the diagnostic threshold for diabetes.

[Interjection by poster: Virta is now in year three, and the results for most are still going strong] (end interjection)

They ate as many calories as they wanted.

Thanks to dietary coaching based on digital monitoring of the ketone blood markers confirming the absence of dietary carbohydrates,

they likely ate a lot of once-forbidden foods like eggs, cheese, butter, full-fat dairy and yogurt.

The subjects were coached to eat only a normal amount of protein, but all the non-starchy vegetables, greens, berries and dietary fat they desired.

Calorically, that breaks down to 10 percent or fewer calories from carbohydrates, 10-20 percent from protein, and 70 percent from fat.

Though it may give some pause, the fats helpful in this quest include unlimited amounts of coconut and olive oil, dairy fat and the most marbled cuts of meat — every kind of fat except for that which is used to hold together carbohydrates.

This allowed the participants to feel full while keeping their total daily carbohydrate intake under 30 grams a day, or roughly the amount of three slices of bread. . . .

. . . More importantly, by following close medical guidance, they rapidly titrated downward their diabetes drugs, and by necessity at that,

since an acceptable dose of glucose-lowering medications and insulin can quickly become dangerous in the absence of dietary carbohydrates.

By the end of one year, 57 percent of the study subjects had all of their prescriptions discontinued save for the drug metformin, with drug costs halved for the entire group

and the use of insulin, a medication currently the subject of shortages and price gouging, either eliminated or halved.

The vast majority were able to stick to the LCHF program. There were no adverse events attributable to the change in diet.

The intervention improved biomarkers for heart disease, hypertension, kidney disease, liver disease and cancer. It was an unqualified success. . . .

. . . Carbohydrate-rich foods like bread, pastry, pasta, potatoes, juices and sugar send glucose into the bloodstream.

The arrival of this glucose triggers the body to release insulin, our hormone for clearing excess glucose and storing it for later use within fat cells.

But that energy cannot be used as long as insulin remains in the bloodstream, and with insulin high, dietary energy is locked away, leading to endless cycles of carbohydrates followed by hunger.

In this way, carbohydrates make patients simultaneously fatter, disregulated and malnourished.

The more refined the carbohydrate, the more insulin is released, but even high-fiber, so-called “healthy carbs” like brown rice, grains, fruit and whole-grain breads will cause insulin to enter the bloodstream.

Protein, for its part, causes only a modest release of insulin, while dietary fat causes virtually no insulin to enter the bloodstream.

But there’s no need to take this on faith. By monitoring blood sugar with continuous glucose monitors, diabetic patients can now see their glucose rising after differing meals in real time, . . . .

. . . Though profitable for drugmakers, chain dialysis firms, blood labs and endocrinology wards, the standard of care places diabetic patients in remission just 0.1 percent of the time. Which is to say, never.

As if to confirm this story of unmet expectations, during the Indiana trial, an 87-person control group received the standard of care.

They experienced no reversal of diabetes, no reduction in medication, no loss of weight. For some, use of insulin went up. . . .

. . . Schoolchildren are advised to eat diabetes-promoting foods like dinner rolls, unbuttered produce, skinless chicken and low-fat milk.

The halls of our hospitals are lined with diabetes-promoting candy, soda and juice machines, even as savvy doctors have learned to push the kaiser roll to the side.

These are just the easy targets. After all, you don’t have to be dining on Skittles to develop type 2 diabetes.

The founder of Virta Health, a 30-something tech billionaire and endurance athlete, was racing in triathlons when he learned that his blood glucose had reached the level designating him as prediabetic. He was the picture of health.

He was also drinking fruit smoothies and eating five bowls of oatmeal a day.


https://www.virtahealth.com/research

Virta Health - Research links
-

[ 02-24-2019, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
yanivnaced
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 13212

Icon 1 posted      Profile for yanivnaced     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brussels:
https://youtu.be/fRZduVxlP_U

A very easy 5 minute video about how fat causes insuline resistance in a few hours!

the doctor mentions exactly keto diet causing that.

the whole mechanism that happens intracellular is clearly shown.

it's good we show both side of the coin. People are big enough to decide on their own.

Good video, explains the mechanism for non-scientists. It makes intuitive sense that blood fats can gum up the body's cells and inhibit them from using up the free floating insulin.

Dr. McDougal has been preaching this for decades but most people don't want to hear it because lowfat is not a convenient dietary lifestyle. Most people still think the answer is high protein + high fat!

Posts: 654 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
While trans fats and hydrogenated / industrialized vegetables oils bottled corn, canola & "seed" oils and such can cause damage and should be totally avoided . . .

Dietary fats from real foods does not cause fat to "gum up" the blood vessels. That theory by Ancil Keys in the '70s has been rebuked. Their data was forged, basically.

Regarding Type 2 Diabetes . . . Type 1 has major differences.

The Virta Health links - and other links - all address this matter. (such as meats, certain plants like olive oil - though not corn as it's highly processed with chemicals)

Nina Teicholz' works show this, too. She's got reviews of studies going back a hundred years in her book "The Big Fat Surprise"

Dr, McDougal has all his patients just eat higher & higher carbs and increase their doses of diabetes Rx / insulin. Insulin, in excess can destroy the body, in various ways. It also contributes highly to the storage of body fat.

His plan does not reverse diabetes, it just makes it worse, requiring more meds that in the end cause more harm.

From the Minneapolis Star-Tribune article posted above from just a few days ago, the Virta Health program in its' third year uses this basic approach:

". . . Calorically, that breaks down to 10 percent or fewer calories from carbohydrates, 10-20 percent from protein, and 70 percent from fat. . . .")

you can see the breakdown of all the metabolic markers of those in the study at the Virta Health website.

Dr. Westman and many others, around the globe, are getting the same kind of results. All the markers are generally good.

Yet the ability to actually reverse diabetes (or improve) for most in these programs is just remarkable - with 70 percent fat in the diet and with all other tests looking good.

It's the sugars, even from whole fruits, starchy veg & other "whole" carbohydrates, that - in someone who is insulin resistant -

these sugars increase not just glucose but also insulin secretion and that insulin prevents sugar from being used and then is stored as visceral fat. From there all kinds of damage happens. Gary Taubes' work explains this better.
-

[ 02-27-2019, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
There are fats and fats, sugars and sugars.

I'm certainly not promoting rancid fats, fried food OR white / brown sugar here.

Both these things are bad: fried rancid fats and sugar / added sugar.

When you guys say 'fats are good' you are NOT including rancid fats or fried oils in the equation.

I'm not including doughnut sugars or white flour and a heap of grains in my plead for high carb / high sugars either.

High quality carbs / sugars are, for instance, leafy greens, potato, squash, beets, carrots, tomatos and fruits.

These are the group I'm 'promoting' as healthy.
I'm not including industrial isolated sugars and grains here.


As most of lymenet and lyme patients are following the latest trend on eating - meaning keto / paleo - and people are STILL sick, I'm just posting an alternative that works well for me, if I am allowed.


Brainy doctors and researchers do point for 2 culprits of disease: added sugars + excess of flour / 'dead' carbs AND excess of oily cooked foods and rancid oils.


And other smarter guys point to the fact that ALONE these things (either healthy sugar alone or healthy fat alone) do not cause a lot of damage, but when eaten COMBINED (fats + sugars), then the big real problem starts.


Combine EVEN healthy fats (such as FRESHLY PRESSED olive oil) with healthy sugars (such as from fruits) and there will be STILL problems.

Fats need high acids from stomach, heavy bile production, digestion happens mainly in the stomach, not the gut.

pH must be very acid to break fats.

Just see how lions eat: they simply put a whole chunk inside and let the stomach do the digestion, no need of a lot of chewing, slow eating etc.

Fast is good, as the 'teeth' to grind / digest is the stomach with its potent acids.

Natural sugars (from fruits / lettuce) digestion starts in the mouth, the more you chew the best, somehow skip the stomach (or they pass fast there to reach the gut), and finish in the gut with other types of bile composition.

It's there in the gut that most of the digestion of starches / sugars occur.

These sugars need a basic environment, somehow, less (or practically no) stomach acids, other type of bile and probiotics are also involved (because, for example, fibers are not our food, but the food of 'good' bacteria).

I would say that either healthy sugar / health carb diets with low fat AND healthy fats with low carbs / sugars are MUCH BETTER than anything that mixes fats and sugars in the same meal.

It's there that most problems start, I believe.


I know that oils go rancid when in contact with air. So the moment you press the oil, and it touches oxygen, it starts getting rancid.

So bottled oils you buy are already rancid.

Instead of oils, I would then take an avocado or sesame seed as an alternative.

Now as for our need of fats for the brain, drop that argument.

Not only us have a functioning brain, but vegetarian animals also have brains. They do get their fats from their veggies: they don't have to consume pure oils to have functioning brains.

they get all they need through veggies / fruits.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hey, I'm not a vegetarian. I also consume meat and like some of it. Specially fish.

I'm just trying now an alternative to what I always ate to see if I get off the cycle of disease.

I know I thrive on raw food - meaning purely fruits and veggies, no restriction (so no grains!, no meats).

Raw food eating stopped my lyme when nothing else did.

But then winter came, and I felt too cold to continue, so I started again on cooked foods.

But in my experience, nothing compares to raw food.

Of course, some of you guys don't even have probiotics in your gut to digest many foods.

It takes quite some time to build these probiotics so that you don't bloat and feel fine after eating raw.

Or you are very allergic to most raw frutis / veggies, so you need cooking.

I understand that.

When I re-started eating normally again, cooked, animal protein, etc, my health issues returned.

Then food allergies started increasing at a frightening speed.

Even if lyme is long gone.


Well, I must say that now I can eat both raw and cooked, and not only all my food allergies seem to have vanished.

All that due to my high quality carb / high fruit diet (of course I eat gluten free, avoid most grains, do not touch any milk product anymore, no more eggs, very little animal protein, loads of raw foods, and loads of fruits, dry or fresh).

I'm also reintroducing some fats too, like avocado (but just one small per day), that I try to eat separate from the rest.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler         Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
What are your blood glucose readings one and two after meals with lots of fruit? Do you have a home glucose meter to test?

You may well have good readings yet it would be good to know.

You may not at all have glucose issues. But many others certainly do and any suggestion that lots of fruit would be good for anyone with glucose issues could cause them harm.

IMO, every home should have a glucose test kit. And, when testing, prior to meal and then, again, one and also two hours after completing a meal is a good way to see how the particular food is or is not working for you.

If readings are much over a hundred (by most U.S. testing methods - European meters may have difference measures)

test every so often until they come down. If readings are high, that's a clue that the meal was too high in sugars.

Liver monitoring with doctor's visits and lab test also a good idea as lots of fruit can cause fatty liver disease for some people. Half of the sugar in fruit is fructose and that can only be processed by the liver.

Again, your body may well be able to handle high sugars (and all carbs turn to sugars) but there are many others who cannot. It's a good idea to check, no matter what one's weight may be.

I have never been diagnosed diabetic, though may have certainly been in that ball park but no doctor ever suggested testing after a meal.

Certainly insulin resistant, though, after starting a ketogenic diet last summer for seizure management, I needed some way to tell if my blood glucose levels were good to be sure I was on track.

It was actually kind of fun to do 50 tests in Nov. and Dec. Really good detail and some surprises in both good and bad ways. But I could then know which foods shot my glucose to the moon and which foods kept me nice and steady.

One surprise was just 20 grams (of carbohydrates) of butternut squash that shot BG up 50 points and it took about 6 + hours to come back down. So that's off my option list.

Whereas, 1/3 cup of blueberries & 1/3 c plain full fat Greek yogurt combined stayed steady. Cranberries on a different day, 1/3 cup also did okay (very tart, though).

Separate tests with ghee, tallow, bacon fat (no sugar was in the bacon) and extra virgin olive oil all had ho rise at all in blood glucose from any of those fats at either one or two hours after meal. And the next morning's reading also fine..

Meats just a little rise of 5-10 points that soon came down at about two hours and a cup or two of certain green veggies, again, just a modest rise of maybe 5-10 points that soon came back down.

If everyone could do such tests and gather their own personal data, it could be so helpful to know how then to plan optimum meals for their blood glucose stability. Each person may respond differently.

Dr. Robert K Bernstein, who has written a excellent book on diabetes and the ramifications of elevated BG (also at YouTube) says that even one blackberry sends his BG up 7 points. So he dare not even go for a serving.

T1D is different than T2D, of course and much tighter BG control is required. He cannot afford jumps in BG at all.

The tests done at doctors' office just can't determine how certain food affect glucose levels.

What's really cool are the new CGM, continuous glucose monitors (used in Virta Health's program).

I've seen a few YouTube videos with mostly T1D patients. It's a disc attached to the arm and then, anytime at all, they just scan with a little device or their smart phone.

And those keep a graph 24/7 where one can look back and - if a spike or drop - one can see exactly when and correlate it to food consumed at that time.
-

[ 02-28-2019, 01:46 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 47472 | From Tranquil Tree House in my dreams | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Brussels     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My parents have that glucose device, as they eat what the doctors recommend and never healed, only get worse with the decades....

They measure blood levels at least 2x a day, for the last 10 years or more.

They are fully diabetic for more than 40 years, eating proteins, fats, low carbs, low fruits.

My 4 grandparents died all from heart / brain / cardio vascular diseases, and the one I knew had also a bad diabetes for the last 30 years of her life.

All my brothers are going to the high blood pressure diabetes way, all of them on drugs for decades.

I'm the only one without blood pressure issues (only during lyme, I had that, but went down when herxes went down...) and the only one that is not diabetic.

The only one 100% drug free in my whole family (even extended family, including uncles, cousins, aunts - from blood line).


Peak of sugars seem not to be the problem. The problem is when glucose takes too long to go down, as far as I understood.

They take too long because of insulin resistance, as you said.


Eating carbs and fruits will necessarily make the blood sugar go high.

But then if you don't have insulin resistance and your body still produces enough insulin, these peaks should go down fast, as insulin pushes sugars INTO the cells, where they are needed.

Sugar levels in the blood vary, like water levels vary, oxygen levels vary, blood pressure varies. If measured in different times of the day, they will be different.

Variation is NOT a problem.

In the past, doctors usually measured blood pressure just once and already labeled patients hypertense.


Today, they do several readings, because they also know that just being anxious about talking to a doctor may raise blood pressure.

Just by walking into the office will raise blood pressure.


Same as with glucose.

Of course, if you don't eat any, or barely any, you won't see it rising.

Next time I'll be with my parents, I'll try to measure my glucose. I hate needles, but it could be fun.

Their diet (the one recommended by 99% of MDs) is certainly NOT the one that will heal them, as 5 members of my family (both parents and 3 brothers) are fully medicated for blood pressure and diabetes.

And they only follow MDs advice.

One of my brothers who is less than 50 is now diagnose with pre-fatty liver.

Another member of the family died of liver cirrhosis and she never drank any alcohol.


Anyway, eating the way I'm eating is causing changes in my body. I wish I had a crystal ball to see the future.

I'll continue my experience.
My sleep is very deep, dreaming quite often, my electrosensitivity is the lowest ever since lyme disease, I feel my muscles are much more relaxed, all my food allergies seem to have disappeared.

I'm enjoying all apples again, all oranges and tangerines, kiwi, cherries, pomegranate, pineapple...

I was allergic to all these things not too long ago!!! My apple allergy dates more than 5 years.
Gone!

I need though to eat often, and that is bothersome. With animal proteins and fats, I only need to eat once a day practically, with a bit of a breakfast...

Anyway, I see some positive changes that seem to be hard to believe, so I'm definitively continuing on my high fruit / high GOOD QUALITY carb to see where it takes me.

Next time I visit my parents, I'll ask to use their glucose device for fun.

Posts: 5929 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

© 1993-2019 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to the Terms and Conditions.

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


Home | Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Webmaster