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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Phospholipids for Mitochondrial Dysfunction

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Author Topic: Phospholipids for Mitochondrial Dysfunction
kj15
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Hello all,

As many of you likely know, most Lyme, Chronic Fatigue, etc. patients have some degree of mitochondrial dysfunction which causes fatigue, nerve and cognitive issues, etc.

I had been taking the product ATP Fuel by Researched Nutritionals, which contains the popular patented phospholipid formula ‘NT Factor’ that is recommended by many LLMDs.

From my knowledge, Nutricology and Allergy Research Products also sell products containing NT Factor.

It provides dramatic relief for me with fatigue, cognitive dysfunction, and nerve issues. Up until now it had been the difference between getting out of bed and minimally functioning or not.

The problem I have run into is I recently developed a very severe and a stubborn case of SIBO (Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth) that I’m slowly working on treating with a functional GI doc.

The ATP Fuel/NT Factor Formulas from all of the 3 aforementioned companies unfortunately have a lot of other substances added to them, in particular FOS (Fructo Oligosaccharides) which is a pre-biotic that is known for flaring GI issues in SIBO.

Since it now causes me a bad GI reaction (bloating, constipation, and all that wonderful stuff) needless to say I have had to discontinue and am now stuck back in bed.

I was wondering if anyone has a suggestion or experience with an alternative oral phospholipid product that does not contain all these extra ingredients, particularly the FOS.

I did a quick search on Amazon and saw a few other products that have no extra added ingredients but don’t typically try anything that doesn’t come recommended to me from someone who has tried it or is from a brand I am not familiar with/trust the quality.

My LLMD unfortunately did not have a suggestion on an alternative and told me this is something I will have to research.

Thanks in advance for anyone who is able to help!

~KJ

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here.)

[ 07-06-2019, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

--------------------
SICK AUG 2010 / DIAGNOSED AUG 2011
LYME IGENEX WB CDC POSITIVE IGM: 31++ 34IND 39+ 41+ 83-93+
CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS: Bartonella and Babesia
REMISSION MAY 2012-DEC 2014
SEVERE RELAPSE JAN 2015
STILL WORKING SLOWLY TOWARD REMISSION AGAIN IN 2019

Posts: 39 | From N. Illinois | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TX Lyme Mom
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I trust this website for anything to do with phospholipids because I've heard the founder of this company speak at medical conferences in the past and I've seen the before and after photos of some of her patients.

https://bodybio.com/blog/pc/?utm_campaign=Newsletter%20&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=72058444&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9njoXVjAQrMqr-xr65CroXzCLDGWY6yU1TP-FE9zSzpr7LBUVh3 p8nSHYftl18JK_U8RSHHfuVn-2ybmMFDs5hE2gxRQ&_hsmi=72058444&known=true

Dr. Patricia Kane, PhD who runs the company is a biochemist who has specialized in nutritional supplementation for severely ill children and children with developmental delay. That's why I trust anything on this website to be top quality.

You might be able to find a similar product for a lower cost elsewhere. I know that I also trust Throne Research products, which are available at iherb.com. It has some very nice reviews on this website.
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Thorne-Research-Phosphatidyl-Choline-60-Gelcaps/18687

I give PC to my husband to help with wound healing. It must be working, but I'm giving him so many supplements that it's hard to be sure what is helping him the most.

Posts: 4498 | From TX | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin123
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You could try contacting some gut experts - Donna Gates, Josh Axe and Jill Carnahan.
Posts: 12717 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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Liposomal Vitamins have a lot of phospholipids.

I make my own without soy - most phospholipids are made from soy lecitin, which could be the cause of the bloating problem, i suspect.

I make my liposomal supplements using sunflower lecithin. They never caused me any bloating: on the contrary, I find that they help me in many ways.

If you'd like more info, I have FB running on how to make your own liposomes, for very low cost, and of high quality (as you choose the ingredients you'd like).

Here is some info on liposomes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liposome


My FB page is called Liposomal Supplements and Vitamins. I'm not selling anything, it's just informative, with recipes.

Posts: 5998 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MichaelTampa
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The phosph-choline product might be similar.

https://biopureus.com/product-category/nutrient-therapy/

Posts: 1922 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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The problem is that most products come from soy lecithin (Biopure too)...

I would avoid that due to GMO problem and due to cross pollination with GMOs (even if organic).

Lecithin is rich in phospholipids, you can just buy sunflower lecithin, and I swear you get already a good supplement with it.

Posts: 5998 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
MichaelTampa
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Biopure actually has one product from soy, and another from sunflower. How much different or better or worse it is from sunflower lecithin, I wouldn't have any idea.
Posts: 1922 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
kj15
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Greetings all,

Thank you so much as always for all of your great recommendations that I explored. After reviewing all of the information posted here, I decided to email the BodyBio company to obtain more specific information on how their Liposomal Phosphatidylcholine product works relative to the NT Factor competitor (created by Garth Nicholson) that I have had great success with in the past, but temporarily can’t take while I’m working through SIBO due to some of the added ingredients like FOS (a no no when working on SIBO).

For those who are interested, here is the email response I receiced from the Research Director at BodyBio, highlighting the differences between BodyBio PC AND NT Factor. From his explanation, the BodyBio PC Phospholipid Products seems to be superior in some ways to NT Factor. Being satisfied with the answers I was given, I went ahead and ordered a small bottle of the BodyBio PC on Amazon to try and see if I get the same benefits as the NT Factor Energy/ATP Fuel. I know from experience that working with phospholipids can take a couple months to feel the full benefits, I will come back and share my experience with the product at a later time.

If for some reason I don’t tolerate this product either, I will reach out to Brussels for more info on how to make my own.

~KJ

*****************************************************************

Monday, July 8, 2019 9:09AM
From: twnorowski@bodybio.com
RE: BodyBio PC Questions

NT Factor is not a liposomal phosphatidylcholine product, but is triple lecithin, packed in oil, that naturally contains all the phospholipid fractions you list, except the two DG’s. Mixing NT Factor with plain water in a blender will make an amorphous blob. Mixing BodyBio PC (or PhosChol or Nutrasol) with water in a blender will make a liposome of uniform color and consistency, ready to be taken in by the body’s cellular membranes. The DG’s are added to NT’s formulation for whatever purpose the originator (Garth Nicolson) intended, usually as a fat replacement and energy enhancer.

BodyBio PC complex contains PE and PI as ancillary phospholipids. In the body, the ethanolamine head of PE is swapped for a serine head to make PS, a signaling molecule that also supports blood clotting and heralds the imminence of apoptosis (cell death). Taking PS by itself for a long enough time is believed by some to have the potential to hasten apoptosis after it has served its signaling purpose. Made endogenously, by the body, only that PS needed at the time is manufactured, performing the restorative feats for which it is known. Whatever PS is unneeded reverts to PE and then to PC.

The forte of NT Factor is the contribution of choline to make acetylcholine, the neurotransmitter that stimulates the nervous and muscular systems. This comes from the breakdown of triple lecithin PC in the digestive tract, an activity that does not occur with phospholipid PC. Liposomal PC, as both a structural and functional molecule, passes through the intestinal wall intact, offering choline only after all cell membranes are restored to optimal function.

Phospholipid PC modulates inflammation, stabilizes coagulation, lowers serum cholesterol, acts as a signaler, is prophylactic to fat embolisms, facilitates absorption of fat-soluble nutrients, serves as a lung surfactant, and reduces tumor necrosis factor-alpha. NT Factor does not have the capacity to do that.

You can learn more about phospholipid PC by reading the two specific bulletins on this page: https://bodybio.com/our-research/?known=false

The suggested dose of BodyBio PC is on the label. The FDA forbids the association of a supplement with a disorder, so any recommendation given for a specific reason is prohibited. In the end, you have to do what you deem the best for yourself.

Regards.

Dr. Thomas M. Wnorowski, BCIM, CNCC
Research Director
BodyBio, Inc.
45 Reese Rd.
Millville, NJ 08332
twnorowski@bodybio.net

--------------------
SICK AUG 2010 / DIAGNOSED AUG 2011
LYME IGENEX WB CDC POSITIVE IGM: 31++ 34IND 39+ 41+ 83-93+
CLINICAL DIAGNOSIS: Bartonella and Babesia
REMISSION MAY 2012-DEC 2014
SEVERE RELAPSE JAN 2015
STILL WORKING SLOWLY TOWARD REMISSION AGAIN IN 2019

Posts: 39 | From N. Illinois | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Brussels
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https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/pharmacology-toxicology-and-pharmaceutical-science/lecithin

"Pharmacodynamics

Lecithin (phosphatidylcholine) is a precursor for choline.

As such, it is involved in the synthesis of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, and levels of lecithin correlate with levels of choline and acetylcholine.

Consequently, one presumed mechanism of action of lecithin is the increase in the synthesis, release, and availability of acetylcholine.

However, lecithin is also involved in complex intracellular processes, including the regulation of cellular membrane permeability.

As discussed above, patients with bipolar disorder reveal altered membrane phospholipid metabolism, and low choline levels within the orbital frontal gray matter have been found in patients with manic symptoms.

Thus, supplementation with lecithin apparently stabilizes the membrane and changes action potential."

-----------------
Thanks for posting the email. It sounds interesting...

But as you can see above, lecithin alone can do quite a lot of things on its own.

And it's so cheap that it's almost for free...
But I wouldn't buy GMO, from soy...

I immediately feel better by taking any liposomal product I make at home (with sunflower lecithin).

Anything mixed with lecithin will do what the 'magic' product above is claimed to do: it won't become an 'amorphous blob' but it WILL be uniform, because lecithin is an emulsifier.

I just did a garlic product with lecithin now, and it gets really homogeneous, as described.


Only blending it a bit in the blender will NOT make liposomes, unfortunately.

The person who wrote that does not know about liposomes, I suspect.

It takes much more time in a blender, and you got to control the temperature very carefully (just read this site qualityliposomalc.com that is based on a liposomal patent).

there are quite a few patents of liposomes in the internet, and it is not as simple as simply blending it fast (that will only create an emulsion, but not liposomes).

The people who wrote liposomal patents have to prove that by using the microscope, to check whether liposomes are formed or not...

anyway, if not made of soy, why not give it a try?

then please come tell us what you think of the product!!! Thanks!

Posts: 5998 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
terv
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Look into MitoQ.

https://www.mitoq.com/

Posts: 685 | From Somewhere | Registered: Nov 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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