If you please, I have a question for anyone who may be able to help.

I am house sitting for 2 dogs while owners are out of the country for 2 months. One of the dogs, a black Lab (56 pounds) was diagnosed May 1st with what the vet said was cancer. The vet said the dog is going to die from this cancer and has given her 4 months to live from the time of diagnosis (the vet also said this is the average with this kind of cancer)- which means September 1st.

The vet originally sent the dog (which is about 3-4 years old), after seeing an xray that was not normal, to have a biopsy of the bone in the lame back leg.

They convinced the owners that this would confirm the diagnosis of cancer. BUT... the biopsy results came back and it was inconclusive.

They sent the dog AGAIN for another bone biopsy and the owners were told that this time it definately would confirm the diagnosis of cancer.... and again it was inconclusive.

At this point.. I think about $1,500.00 has been spent to reach the conclusion that nothing can be done for the dog.

The vet told me this week that they (the surgeon who did the biopsy and this vet) were 99.9 percent sure it was cancer, even though the tests didn't show conclusive for cancer. They just felt that it was.

They told me this type of cancer isn't "typical" for labs to get.. normally it is other big breeds of dogs who get it... but still... they are sure that is what it is anyhow... and they are trying to prepare for the worst.

Since the dog was biopsied the second time, it has been on 2 antibiotics (for a month now)... cephalaxin and another antibiotic similar to Cipro (starts with an "O".. can't remember the name) and in MY opinion.. since being on the antibiotics, the dog seems better... quite a bit better actually.

It is still limping on the bad leg here and there... but the health in general seems much better. The dog is running 1/2 mile at a time, swimming, eating fine, jumping, smiling, etc. She has a "bad day" here and there and someone noticed she gets tired fairly easily, but with this heat.. ain't we all worn out if running and playing?

I asked the vet about bacterial infections after they explained it was cancer and nothing could be done. I asked if the tiny .1 percent chance they left out of their prediction.. well.. could the dogs problems be caused by Lyme or other co-infection. Of course they don't think so.

Supposedly they tested for Lyme at some point (blood) and it was negative.

(Keep in mind I am NOT the dog owner... and have been NOT involved in it's history or health care till this week when I was asked to drive the dog to the vet. I've never seen the xrays, blood work, etc. and don't know if that would be ok to do?)

I did ask... and found out they didn't check for Bartonella or Babesiosis.. which are very BIG around here. This dog lives on a farm where EVERYONE has Lyme.. and the vet happens to live near by... and the vet even had Lyme. (The vet looked as if they might be sick with Lyme still... and Bartonella... but I only spent a few minutes with the doc... so I may be dreaming that?)

Anyhow... After my questions/suggestions the vet decided to try doxycycline to "cover the bases" in case it might be an infection.

The dog started 300 mg doxy a day (started it yesterday)... which seems like a really HIGH dose??? The dog weighs only 56 pounds.

Any thoughts on that dose for a dog?

They thought they had given the dog doxy already.. but when they reviewed the chart while I was standing there... the vet realized they hadn't.

The vet seemed "fairly" up on Lyme (enough to say it wasn't Lyme, the standard reply around here from doctors)...

But not enough to know about it affecting the bones..

B the vet was totally NOT in tune with co-infections. (Thought Babesiosis was treated with antibiotics only, acted as if they didn't know anything about Bartonella, etc.)

Soooooo... my questions are...

Can anyone share any advise?

I just don't think this dog looks like it will die in 6 weeks.. but of course I always hope for the best. Maybe I am kidding myself?

Do dogs herx? I have only noticed they get better after a few days... I've never observed a herx in a dog... never really thought about it.

Do they make acidophulis for dogs? What about yeast control.

I am sorry to bother you all with these questions. I don't have the ability to research all I need to know about dogs/cancer/Lyme right now.. and any help would be appreciated.

I would hope the dog would be healthy when the owners arrive home in late August... and that is my goal for now.. IF it can happen.

Before the owners left, they showed me where the dog is to be buried when it passes away, because that is what they are expecting and were told to expect by the vets... sooooooo...

Is there anything we can try at this point?

What have we got to loose?

Thanks for ANY suggestions!!

His wife stopped by on Monday night and chatted about the lady that runs the govt. tick lab at Aberdeen. They are friends and also told me that about 1/4 of all cats seen by them have bartonella. Many dogs also now have lyme. I said why aren't the medical doc's very literate..she shook her head and said well, my husband was a non-believer for a long time but not any more. He may be able to give some advise..

He is off of 136 in Whiteford, Md. Northern Harford County. It would be about an hour and a half from your part of the shore or so. About that long from "Sudsville". Actually a spit away from Jean G.

Maybe he fell into you arms at just the right moment..

I can tell you my experience with Lyme and dogs.

We had one diagnosed with cancer a few years back (before I knew about Lyme) and in retrospect, it too was a "vague" diagnosis.

He had a stomach cancer diagnosis and he passed away..but near the end he had bone involvement..limp legs. He was diagnosed with Lyme the year before and only treated for two weeks. I really feel strongly that Grendel died of Lyme.

My dog now (Miles, named after Miles Davis ..an American Bulldog) has been with me as I am now Lyme-Literate..

He has had multiple atatchments..and he got "droopy" and had what Docs identified as skin rashes. He also leaked.

He went on fourteen days of I think the Cephalaxin, and he, too..just started getting better all around..personality wise as well.

It cleared up the "allergies", but he also was peppier and more responsive, perked up.

I went back in talking all about Lyme and co's..because when he stopped abx ..he got droopy again.

He knew of Lyme, but swore the dog tests were very accurate, and Miles' was negative.

He knew a little about co-infections, but didn't test for them. He said there were some PCR's available, but expensive.

I know the tests are better than humans, but still don't trust them. I told him that and pushed for Doxy.

Doxy will cover all but Babesia in dogs (I think)..this would be a different treatment. There are articles in veterinary literature on that one. (can learn allot about human Babs reading those)

He prescribed 28 days of Doxy at 2 or 300 mgs, I can't remember..split in two doses, and Miles recovered fully. He didn't herx. He was a little more tired for a couple of days, and then just got better and better..

I would try the longer course of Doxy and watch response. If he is getting better with abx..Bingo..some dogs may need longer than 28 days, or repeated courses.

If he gets notably better on abx, as he already seems to have, welp..you've got an infection there..

The acidophilus..vet said just to give the human kind..pour capsules over food.

I would give a heafty dose for a child his weight..or half the human generous dose. He can't OD on acidophilus..

I gave it 2hrs away from abx but with food. They do need it.

Since then I have also been giving Miles Transfer factor to keep immune strong. I will self administer Doxy if he has more bites and looks sick and watch response.

If my vet doesn't go along with me a second time..

Mo

He is an expert in Lyme treatment, having seen hundreds, if not thousands of cases.

There is a site you can type a 'story' to him.

Don't know if this will help...hope so!

One was a 3 year old Komondor and the other a 9 year old Lab/Shepherd mix. I always thought it had to be something else... What are the chances of two dogs coming up with bone cancer at the exact some time.

I asked my vet if it could be lyme as I had recently lost a horse to Lyme. His answer was no. We had to put them to sleep the same day. It was awful.

In 2001 another one of our Komondok contracted lyme. She could not walk. She was treated and never the same. Vet kept saying she was getting old...

Well when I finally hit rock bottom - I noticed some of our symptoms were the same... I finally started researching Lyme after a fluke phone call in June 03 and knew I was infected. I also figured out Tess was still infected.

She went back on meds about the same time I was diagnosed with babs/bart/lyme and continued treatment until October 31st. She was a different dog. Even her allergies went away.

She relapsed in April and resumed treatment. Her allergies came back during her downward spiral and the hair around her eyes was once again turning to the ugly rust color.

Yes dogs do herx and I can tell when Tess is herxing. Dogs are just like us with this disease. You can tell even in their eyes.

Shortly after I was diagnosed my other two Koms got deathly ill. They were infected also and we had no idea. We lost Hunni and Hanna almost died.

She started clotting and her platelets were extremely low. Her test results were equivocal but luckily our vet knew she was infected.

This happened in August 03 and Hanna stopped treatment the same day as Tess. I had also stupidly had them vaccinated for lyme after Tess originally got ill in 2000.

I was so worried about both of them after they stopped treatment and even took them in for checkups because I thought they were slowly declining but everyone else thought they were fine. Oh yea, Hanna resumed treatment about 3 weeks ago.

I have always feared a co-infection... So this time the vet did test for co-infections and she is positive for bartonella. I am still waiting for the Babesia results.

I have felt like a hypochondriac for worrying like I have but my gut has been right on everything so far including mama and Michael.

Anyway, where I am going with this... I always thought it was impossible for two dogs to come up with bone cancer at the exact same time. How can that possibly happen? I often think it could of have been lyme or a co-infection.

Maybe I am crazy... but with all of the dogs, loosing the horse, plus the cat was real sick but never diagnosed, my husband, mama and myself being infected with TBD's it does make you wonder.

Not to mention another Kom we had to put down because he could not walk anymore. My moms Kom died the same way after Bentley and she was treated for Lyme a couple years before.

My dogs weigh 120lbs and take 400mg of doxy. Human probiotics are fine. I also give them Optimum Omega and glucosamine made by Now Foods (Labeled - Joint Support Powder). My vet said it is also ok to give them magnesium. I think Igenex will test dogs blood, I know Bowen will as I called last week.

I disagree about giving the dog human food to make it happy. I used to give mine scraps and they get nothing like that now. I try to keep them as healthy as possible. I have always feed them good food but no more chips or leftovers. They do get an occasional piece of steak, broccoli... but that is rare.

I honestly believe that many dogs are not as well as people think after treatment. I may be 3 hours late for work every single day but I still go, I cook dinner most of the time, clean house... and feel like total #%it.

How do we know if a dog has a headache, head pressure, nausea, flushing, shooting pains, numbness, ringing ears, eye pain, vibrations, jaw pain, bladder pain, neck pian, fatigue...................we don't.
Stacey

[This message has been edited by bel1268 (edited 16 July 2004).]

Finally got back to the computer. It has been a boatload of a day around here... sorry.

I wanted to respond to each one of you individually and thank you for taking time to address my concerns.. however..

I hope you will understand if for now I give an all around THANK YOU to all.

I have read each response several times.. and the sites also. Everything posted has helped me in a very special way.. EVERYTHING!

Please forgive me... I am plum tuckered out.. and tomorrow is one of the biggest days coming up for me that I have had in a LONG time. My "little one" has taken a step up in his job and will be leaving the area to go about 1,000 miles away to live.

Tomorrow will be the last time I see him for a LONG time. I am wrapped up in sad and excited too.. and I am sure many of you know that feeling.

So please forgive me for not responding to every post individually... and know that I will be back after the weekend to reread and respond more.

I am already taking the good advise here and will be using your ideas to make a plan of action.

Thanks for providing both the brain ammunition AND the comfort.

You are the greatest!

Keep your fingers crossed that we can help this sweet dog. I now have the world's best info from wonderful folks who CARE!

She did say that it wasn't that uncommon for bone cancer in dogs of just a few years.

She also said that their is no really good dog test for lyme disease.

You may want to check out the dog lover's
post in General. Maybe you can consult with
this vet.

I just wanted to pop in and say that just last month the vet told my sister she had to put her dog down due to cancer in his back leg, he had a open sore that he kept picking at then he started limping.

I begged her to come to my vet for a second opinion. She did, they put him on abx for 2 weeks and he is doing wonderful they think it was a spider bite. They did have to extend the abx for 2 more weeks but he is running around now.

Wish I had something else to help you with.

I didn't read thru all the responses.

My boyfriend from Harford County lost three labs in 18 months with no real explaination. This was just before I started dating him and picked up ticks in his yard.

Recently, after questioning him, I realize the dogs probably had lyme.

I don't herx a lot. My llmd says it's because I'm active. So maybe this is the case with dogs.

My dog doesn't seem to herx, he's active, now. Two years ago he had amox for bladder/kidney issues. All his arthritis was gone after the month of abx.

My llmd suggested the dog take tetra, like the rest of us. He is doing great. I expect he will take tetra to the end of his days, he's 10 mow.

It's kind of cute, but sad. Everyone lines up for the 6am abx!

I hope this helps.

I am still optimistic and am hoping things get better here.

This is a one week report after starting doxycycline. I have not started the acidophulis yet.. but if she does well through the weekend I will start it Monday. I didn't want to do several things at once in case there was a reaction.. bad OR good.

I will also look into glucosomine (spelling) and the other supplements too... soon.

Here is what I have noticed so far...

I have been taking the dog swimming in the pool every day for exercise. She swims.. and I stand nearby to be sprayed repeatedly with all the doggie water she shakes off each time she gets out of the pool.

The dog had 2 days that didn't seem to be good ones... then a fairly good day.. then a not so good day. Then she started feeling more energetic than we have seen in a LONG time.. and this has lasted several days now.

She is eating better... and more.... and looking forward to eating.

She is doing that annoying jumping up on me when I come near her again... and she shakes her tail and lays on her back playfully kicking her legs... like a puppy would.

She jumps up and down when she goes outside and runs like the wind. She is tackling the older dog and knocking it over because she is playing ruff... which she hasn't done in a LONG while.

HA! Ya know that commercial on TV where the mom gives the little kid some medicine and he feels better and then starts chasing his sister and her friends around again and being the annoying little brother... and the sister is mad cause the kid now feels better... and the mom holds up the medicine box and says, "Sorry honey, I HAD to give it to him". hehehe

That is what the older dog is thinking about when he looks at me! Just like the sister saying... WHY did you give her that medicine?!

Today the dog barely limped at all. Normally the back leg has been useless or not used while walking or running. Today, for the first time, the back leg seemed to be used quite a bit. Not 100 percent.. but a good 60-70 percent!!! That beats 5-10 percent of the time using the leg.

Her eyes look like she feels better. She seems to be saying something to me when she looks at me now.. and like she is smiling inside. Before she seemed to have a "hopeless" look in her eyes... a "DO SOMETHING" look.

Now her eyes are bright and happier. (Hard to explain.. just an observation basically).

She is snuggling up against me when I sit down... trying to jump up in my lap... and acting "loving" instead of "stuffy" and unconcerned. She wants to be involved in what is going on and seems like an active participant in life instead of a by-stander waiting for time to pass her by.

Two other people who know the dog reported the dog seems better than it has been in a LONG time.

Soooooo... things are looking good for now. I hope the dog continues to improve. Please share any more thoughts you have. And thanks for ALL the advise and information and sharing! I am using your advise!

I will report back again so others in this situation can have something to see as far as progress and a time line go. Maybe it will help them if this turns out well?

Thanks again to all!

I am SO thrilled to read that the pooch is doing better!

Bless you!

I have a load of info on canine LD, so, if you would like, I can forward this stuff on to you. I don't know if it will be helpful or not...just depends on how much time you have to dig through it?

Let me know...
Love, M

I have not been on a while...and missed this

Dogs who have lyme, usually respond to treatment that is 6 weeks in duration for late lyme. They may relapse which would note the need for additional antibitic therapy.
Lameness, personality change, teeth/mouth issues are the most common, along with a "hunched" look as they walk, and walking on egg shells as though their feet hurt (which they probably do).

Only the dogs with peronality changes seem to show a significant "fog" which passes quickly, and signs of recovery are relatively quick.

Co-infections of babesia are usually fatal in a dog.
Erlichiosis- also is severe and usually fatal.

the other co-infections I do not know about. Nothing in my literature about those.

If the dog is presently on Doxy, and SMZ-960 the dosing of 100 mg/100 # is standard on the doxy, and 1 tablet(960 mg) /100 # is the standard for SMZ960.

Duration for the SMZ would be three7 day courses back to back. I dont believe we have ever gone more than this due to potential issues.

Very few dogs will have yeast problems, as their diets are high acidity diets with relatively little sugar or starch. However it should not hurt the dog, to use oral probitotics. These can be found in your farm store (in the cattle section) as a paste in a tube. Often used for young cattle to fight scours.

Best wishes for this dog's speedy recovery.

quote:

---

Originally posted by cawpo:
Can canine lyme cause recuring eye infections?
Cheryl

---

I will try to make this short... I now know Hanna our 8 year old Komondor originally contracted lyme in 2002. We did not figure out she was infected until she almost died in August 2003.

After researching lyme I realized her swollen hot hind leg was not an injury from jumping down our 6 foot retaining wall...

I missed this symptom as I knew nothing about TBD's back then and when Tess originally got sick in 2001 she could not walk.

Hanna started clotting all over her body in August 03 and her platelets were extremely low. This happened a month after I was diagnosed... She almost died and vet gave steroids which I was not happy about. They told me she would die w/o them.

I think another another medication caused a severe herxheimer reaction as our older Kom (Huni) died two days after Hanna got sick that took the same med. Tess never took this med.

Hanna's lyme test was equivocal (RMSP, Ehrlichia negative) but our vet did put her on doxy. She was doing very well by October and both Tess and Hanna stopped treatment on Oct. 31st 03 against my better judgment. But what would I know...

Anyway, I was very concerned about her and Tess and even took them in for checkups a couple months later. But again, what do I know... They assured me everything was fine. Then Tess totally relapsed in April 04 and Hanna followed in June.

The sad thing is I know these dogs and I think the vet thinks I am over reacting. I had a bad feeling a co-infection was involved since I have Lyme, Babesia and Bartonella and asked our vet to test for co-infections. I gave him some information about Bowen but he decided to use NC College of Vet Med.

Hanna is positive for Bartonella Henselae/cat scratch fever and my vet is telling me there has only been one other case according the North Carolina State University College of Veterinary Medicine that ran the blood work.

Basically he is saying dogs do not get Bartonella Henselae and he has never heard of a tick carrying this which floored me. He said that dogs only get Bartonella Vinsonii. I am getting our cat tested too.

He went on to say that the other case of a dog having Bart. Henselae had a very compromised immune system... and wanted to know if my LLMD had mentioned having the cat tested...

Here is the part I do not understand. He wants to take both of the girls off doxy and see what happens. I told him there is no way I am taking Tess off doxy as she just got to the point where you can see a big difference in her. She had a positive lyme test in 2001... and Hanna still needs medication...

I have not seen much improvement in Hanna but it has only been a month. He feels Hanna does not have an active infection but has just been exposed to Bart. H. and no longer has Lyme.

I do not agree with this as something is making her sick. I asked what the standard treatment would be for bart and he said Amox and cipro. My feeling is to treat her for the Bart. H and then see what happens. Not take her off meds completely and see what happens.

He says we could be missing something else that is compromising her immune system but all of her lab results are fine. I do not understand his view on this.

He is pretty adamant about his decision regarding Hanna but did agree to keep Tess on doxy another month. I do not think another month will do it. She was on it for 4 months last time.

I asked him in July if we could follow up with Flagyl and he said we will see. I need help and do not know where to turn. Do any you know anything about this or a vet that is literate and close to Maryland? Any info you have is greatly appreciated.
Stacey

[This message has been edited by bel1268 (edited 27 July 2004).]

[This message has been edited by bel1268 (edited 27 July 2004).]

I appreciate the time and effort! VERY MUCH!

I am saving this post for the owners when they return and hopefully we can add some stories for the local vets so they will be more aware. Rest assured they WILL hear from me.

It can still be cancer.. like they said a 99.9 percent chance.. but when antibiotics make a complete turn around in the way a dog feels... isn't it wise to keep trying and hoping?

REPORT- Two weeks after starting doxy...

About the same... not worse.. not much better. But how could she be better really? She seems back to normal nearly. If she fixed me an omlett this morning for breakfast... that would indicate "better". hehehe

She continues to be very active... loving... happy... running... etc.

Has some stiffness or slowness when getting up from laying down and sleeping... but does MUCH better than me and MUCH better than she has been!

She is using the leg more and more... and her eyes look clear and not so sad.

I have noticed the other dog is not acting quite right for the past couple of weeks. She had a temper problem the other day trying to get at the sick dogs food.

Also she has that "sad" look.. and seems to have slowed down movements (seems sluggish) and it appears as if the dog feels lazy, "achy" and not "into" life at this time. I don't know if she is coming down with something... or it is just because the other dog is now doing so well and it just looks like it?

I am quite concerned about having to put the tick stuff on her again this month. This stuff can't be all too healthy for animals... can it?

I know I get sick when I have to put bug repellent on ME for even one afternoon. I can't imagine... especially on a sick animal with a weak immune system.. that this is 100 percent safe.

But.. this is needed I guess because the dogs are roaming through all sorts of stuff.

Thanks again for all the replies. I keep on praying and hoping this works.

May have to repeat.

I'm not kidding.

This combo. produces hydrogen.

Exercise...even a little = CoQ10 which carries hydrogen into the cells.

If you can get hydrogen INTO the cells...you can cure ANYTHING.

P.S. Dog food is "healthier" than ours...not joking. Much higher in Mg and Ca...to the benefit of the animals. Geeze...I'm wracking my brain...about 2 years ago someone on the boards put their animal on an unusual herb/supplement to treat cancer. I'll try to find it. At the time, we were wondering if it would help with lyme.

The vet I told you about explained it very well but I cannot remember what she said. Give her a call... she is very nice and she will explain it.

I used to only use it a couple times per year fearing its toxicity but we now use it faithfully.

My moms friend uses it on herself and has for years which I do believe is crazy and so does a friend of my brother in laws. Can you imagine...

Anyway, moms friend is pushing about 70 and a very active lady, still riding her horses...

Marnie,
If you do find that article - please post. Thanks...
Stacey

[This message has been edited by bel1268 (edited 31 July 2004).]

If she's forgotten...tell her it starts with "acem"...and it's curiously in a common product.

I am sorry I missed the newest posts. I have now read them and will follow through. Thanks so much!!! It is good information. And it is also nice to know others will come here later to find it and it will help them too!

And..

Thank you ALL for the great stories you shared. I hurt for the ones who didn't make it.. but their stories will help others... for sure.

Your information will be passed along to the dogs owners... who...

RETURNED LAST NIGHT!!!

YIPPEE!!!!!

They arrived home to find the dog jumping up and down and VERY active and loving and playful once again. They genuinely seemed moved and pleased.. especially since they had left detailed burial instructions.

They are really THRILLED about the dogs condition and can't believe how much better she is.

I explained to them that ALL the gang here at Lyme Net had input about her care.. and I will give them the information you all shared to use as they see fit.

They have already decided.. without a second thought.. that the vet is NO good... and they won't go back to that vet or listen to the vet again.

OH.. I didn't mention. The meds ran out this past weekend.. just before the owners were due home.

I called Monday morning to get refills for the doxy and pain meds. They said NO to the doxy.... and yes to the pain meds. They NEVER even asked HOW the dog was doing... just a big fat NO!!

So I asked them to ask the vet about a refill while I was on the phone. When I got there I spoke to person number two... and she said NO to doxy also. So I asked her to ask the vet. Keep in mind I NEVER mentioned the word Lyme or tick borne disease at any time.

The vet's reply was..

"Lyme disease only gets a certain amount of antibiotics and that has been given, so no more."

Keep in mind they still insist she has cancer and NOT Lyme or any tick borne infections.

They gladly refilled the pain meds... and not even at that point were they asking HOW the dog was doing.

Anyhow.. what a success story!

Thank you ALL so much for everything!

True.. she may have cancer.. we will see. BUT.. this dog is as happy as I have ever seen her.. and feels sooooo much better.

Thanks to YOU!

I smile for all the work we did to get a dog back from the grave and for giving the owners a chance to see her feeling well once again.

By the way...

According to the vet.. this dog will die within the next 10 days...

IF her cancer diagnosis was right.

And YES.. I am giving the owners time to see what they want to do.. but you can bet your bippy I will be IN THEIR FACE (the vets office) about this...

And they WON'T forget it when I am done with them.

Imagine how many others have fallen because of this GARBAGE! It is tragic.

E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N

Please keep spreading the word.

And bless you all.. I REALLY mean it. It was such a help to me...

Now I can relax.

"They are anxious to know more about what you all have shared... and so happy to have their little girl back and doing so well."

Obviously, I was wrong.

I just got a call and was told they put the dog down this morning.

Why they called me at THIS point to tell me that... is beyond me. Why they didn't share the fact the dog was so bad any sooner.. or ask for any help.. is beyond me.

Once they returned from vacation the dog continued on Doxy and was doing great.

Then they took her out of state on a hunting trip.

The owner decided (which I didn't know about at the time) not to continue the doxy.

The dog .. as would be expected.. got worse.

Instead of starting the doxy again (see report below which I shared with them).. and they had plenty of doxy there to use... they still didn't give her any more.

I do NOT know why they didn't re-start the doxy... and instead they choose to watch her go down hill and suffer... it is WAY beyond my ability to figure that out... and I don't want to speculate because I am so angry right now.

Anyhow.. the dog is gone now... and I didn't get to say good bye.

Taking her off the doxy allowed what ever it was to return and make her worse. That is from a medical stand point.

From a personal standpoint...

My heart breaks. I am very angry this happened. I am confused.

I have lost faith in people today.

Scientists find way to 'turn off' cancer -

Antibiotic halts aggressive tumours in mice
Tim Radford, Science Editor, Monday October 11, 2004, The Guardian

Scientists in California have found a way to "turn off" a gene that makes cancerous cells lethal.

They eliminated aggressive, incurable liver tumours in laboratory mice in four weeks, they report in an advance paper in Nature today. The study, based on a gene called Myc, could lead to new ways of treating cancer.

Cancer Research UK scientists in Glasgow, working with colleagues in Seattle, last year worked out the details of how Myc cranks up the rate of growth of dividing cancer cells by sending one of
the cell's factories into overdrive.

In cancer, cells divide uncontrollably.
The California team based their studies on mice with genetically modified liver cells. The type of cell that becomes cancerous is called an epithelial cell, and these form cancers in breast, colon and prostate. So the same approach might work in all of them. Liver cancer is common and
difficult to treat.

"This is a terrible cancer. Anything that is encouraging in liver cancer may be important," said Dean Felsher of Stanford University, who led the research. "The exciting thing is that you can
turn cancer cells into something that appears to be normal."

The mice under study had a mutated Myc gene that was constantly on. It produced a Myc protein that served as a kind of conductor, sending a signal to cells to divide. Cancer cells produce too much Myc protein all the time, and are constantly dividing.

Dr Felsher and his colleagues fed the
mice an antibiotic called doxycycline, which turned the gene off, and stopped the protein flow.

As long as the mice had the antibiotic diet, they remained healthy. Once the antibiotic was withheld, they developed aggressive liver cancer in 12 weeks. When they were put back on the diet, all of them showed rapid regression: the liver cancer was eliminated, and liver cells seemed to behave normally.

In effect, the scientists turned the Myc gene on and off like a tap, and turned cancer on and off at the same time.

They also found that some of the apparently normal cells retained the ability to become
cancerous, which could explain why cancers often recur after chemotherapy. Cancer hits one person in three, and kills one in five. In recent years, researchers have concentrated on a number of new approaches.

They have tried to cut off the blood supply to tumours, to halt their growth. They have tested search-and-destroy toxins, designed to make for and eliminate only cancerous cells. They have experimented with scalpels made of ultrasound, and they have tried
to "burn" cancerous cells with infrared radiation.

But cancer is, above all, a disease of the DNA, and British researchers have launched a cancer genome project to collect all the genetic mutations involved in the making of a cancer.

There are more than 100. But the Myc protein seems to play a role in many cases of the disease.

The Glasgow study immediately suggested that it would be a good target. If researchers could find a drug that blocked the action of Myc, they could study its effect on cancer cases.

The Stanford study shows that they were right.

But what works in mice may not work so well in humans. The next step is to hunt for a drug that would be safe for human patients, and yet have the same impact.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Int J Cancer. 2004 Jun 20;110(3):336-42.

Reversible lymphomagenesis in conditionally c-MYC expressing mice.

Marinkovic D, Marinkovic T, Mahr B, Hess J, Wirth T.

Department of Physiological Chemistry, Ulm University, Ulm, Germany.

It is well documented that deregulation of MYC leads to tumor development, yet
many aspects of this process are only partially understood. We have established a
transgenic mouse model in which c-MYC is conditionally expressed in lymphoid
cells using the tetracycline-regulated system of gene regulation. Mice with
continuously expressed transgenic c-MYC died of invasive T- or B-cell lymphomas
within 4 months. Lymphomas developing in transgenic mice were c-MYC dependent
since doxycycline treatment led to tumor regression. Using transplantation of
established tumor cell lines labeled with GFP, we followed the fate of neoplastic cells
in recipients upon MYC inactivation. This approach allowed us to elucidate both
apoptosis and differentiation as mechanisms of tumor elimination. Comparative
genomic hybridization (CGH) and FISH analyses were performed in order to analyze
possible chromosomal aberrations induced by c-MYC. We observed that
overexpression of c-MYC is sufficient to induce recurrent patterns of genomic
instability. The main observation was a gain of genomic material that corresponded
to chromosome 15 in several T-cell tumors, which could be identified as trisomy.
Copyright 2004 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 15095297 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Virology. 1999 Jan 20;253(2):193-207.

Conditional cell transformation by doxycycline-controlled expression
of the MC29 v-myc allele.

Oberst C, Hartl M, Weiskirchen R, Bister K.

Institute of Biochemistry, University of Innsbruck, Peter-Mayr-Str. 1a, Innsbruck,
A-6020, Austria.

To investigate the molecular basis of oncogenesis induced by the v-myc oncogene of
avian myelocytomatosis virus MC29, we developed a conditional cell transformation
system in which expression of the MC29 v-myc allele is dependent on a
doxycycline-sensitive transactivator (tTA). Clonal lines of quail embryo fibroblasts
transformed by doxycycline-controlled v-myc revert to the normal phenotype and lose
their ability to grow in soft agar after the addition of doxycycline. Repression of
v-myc causes the cells to withdraw from the cell cycle, and long-term survival in
culture requires reexpression of v-myc. Although complete repression of v-myc
mRNA and v-Myc protein in these cells occurs within 14 h after the addition of
doxycycline, the first morphological alterations are observed after 24 h, and after 3
days, the morphology changed entirely from small rounded cells showing a typical
myc-transformed phenotype to large flat cells resembling normal fibroblasts. Cells
exposed to doxycycline for 3 days reexpressed v-myc within 24 h after withdrawal of
the drug from the culture medium, partial retransformation occurred after 2 days, and
complete morphological transformation was reestablished after 6 days. Analogous
results were obtained with a cell line in which expression of the v-myc allele is
dependent on a reverse transactivator (rtTA) that is activated by doxycycline. The
striking differential expression of known transformation-sensitive genes and of new
candidate v-myc target genes revealed the tightness of the doxycycline-controlled
v-myc expression system. The data also indicate that expression of v-myc in these
cells is indispensable for enhanced proliferation, transformation, and
immortalization. Copyright 1999 Academic Press.

PMID: 9918878 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I am SO sorry that you lost your furry friend.

I know that there isn't anything I can say to comfort you right now...
But I DO hope that you will keep in mind that you did your very best to help.

My dog has Lyme and sounds exactly like the dog you described in every way. I have to keep him on doxy to keep him well and happy.

I brought him to the vet a couple of years ago suspecting Lyme but I didn't mention it because I thought maybe I was projecting my disease onto him or something... the vet actually SUGGESTED Lyme and decided to test. I asked for doxy right away (because I was pessimistic that the test would be positive and of course it was negative.) My dog responded to the doxy immediately and was no longer lame, stopped vomiting and was more alert. The negative test didn't dissuade me... the vet's uncoerced suspicion of Lyme reinforced my suspicion that it was Lyme.

I ran out of the doxy quickly because they only gave me about 10 days I think but I found out I could order doxy from the UK without a script. I did so and kept treating for months. I stopped the treatment to see how he would do. He relapsed in a few weeks. I put him back on and he was back to normal. I think I tried to stop them a few months later but after another relapse it just wasn't worth it to stop ever again.

I have cut back his dose to a maintenance dose because of the expense but he is doing fine on the lower dose. I ran out at one point and was waiting for the order to come and he starting vomiting again (the most obvious symptom he has... he vomits bile yellow stuff). I have been told that I could use a much higher dose for him but I really think he was infected for so long that I would never really be able to eradicate it completely anyway. He is an older dog now but is doing well except for the arthritis he has had for years from the Lyme. He is able to do the stairs and walk around and doesn't seem to be in pain all the time so that's what is important to me.

I'm sorry the owners got suckered by the vets. It's such a horrible shame. You gave that dog some quality of life for a while longer than he would have had though. You should feel good about that.

We get sick together, and take meds together. He feels almost instantly better after only one dose of 200 mg doxy!!! Not sure what the protocol is for lyme tx in canine, but seems to be as crappy for us 2 legged creatures as well.

My senior golden can no longer get up on the bed or up into the Jeep. He doesn't seem to mind being hoisted! I just know I have given him the best life a recycled dog could have. He is a rescue golden, and I have had him for almost 7 years. (I call him my recycled dog)

I am sorry for your loss. Please know that you contributed to a better quality of life, I just know you did.

I am so sorry. You did your best for her.

Ashame her "parents" couldn't care as much as you did.

I am not a vet, but I have a dog who has chronic Ehrlichia, so I've done much research on treatments for tick diseases in dogs over the past year. Maybe some of what I've learned will help others who have dogs with tick diseaes. What I'm posting only applies to Lyme and Ehrlichia. Treatment protocols for Babesia and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever are different.

For Lyme and Ehrlichia, standard protocol is Doxycycline, 5mg/kg every 12 hours for a month. However, many vets have found that 10mg/kg every 12 hours for 2 months works best and has the best chance of preventing a relapse. Some dogs, however, can't tolerate the higher dose. You can always start with the high dose and if the dog doesn't tolerate it, back down to the lower dose.

I would also run a complete blood chemistry panel to make sure the dog doesn't have any underlying kidney or liver problems that might make the higher dose dangerous. I feel that a complete blood count and blood chemistry panel should always be run anyway, regardless of dosage.

To help prevent stomach upset, give the Doxy with a meal. Also give the dog a "chaser" of a treat or a small bit of food to make sure the pill goes down all the way, as they can cause a lot of irritation to the esophagus. Tablets are better than capsules, in preventing irritation.

If the dog still vomits even if the Doxy is given with a meal, you can divide the Doxy dosage up into 3 portions (or as close as you can get without splitting or crushing the tablet), and give 1/3 every 8 hours, or even split into 4 portions and give 1/4 every 6 hours. My own dog tolerates it better if split into 3 portions.

Pepcid AC can also be given to a dog to reduce stomach upset. It should be separated from the Doxy by 2-3 hours. I give Pepcid AC only if the dog can't tolerate the medicine without it. Do not give other human medicine for stomach upset. Although Pepcid AC is safe for dogs, many others aren't. Ask your vet what dosage of Pepcid AC is appropriate for your dog's weight.

Probiotics should also be given. A multiple probiotic is better than just acidophilus. You can give human probiotics to dogs. The probiotic should also be separated from the Doxy by 2-3 hours.

I'm so sorry about the pups passing. Some people don't have the same priorities about animals as others do. It just shows that you're a warm and caring person.

To add to doggiemom's post, my "recycled" Keeshond has never been tested for Ehrlichia but has always had to drink and pee more than usual. One of her blood tests early on stated "possible rickettsial disease" but that was it.

I brought it up after spending about $1500 on tests and they gave me 1 month of doxy. She stopped peeing in the house and only had to go out a couple of times at night instead of every hour.

After the month was up, she relapsed to the way she was pre tx. 2 weeks later got another month of doxy but it never got good again.

I had some tetracycline of my own left over after switching my tx and tried that. She started getting better within a few days. She's been taking it for a couple of months now and is doing great.

She now has her own rx and she gets 500mg 2 x's a day on an empty stomach. The normal dosage is 22mg/kg three times a day on an empty stomach.

Just a little more info on treating dogs with TBDs.