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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Stachybotrys sp. mold found in home

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Author Topic: Stachybotrys sp. mold found in home
cantgiveupyet
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I just got my tape lift analysis back today. This was found in the area of the home I live in :-(

I suspected it might be here because of the symptoms I get. I just dont know if it is causing all my symptoms. They recommend remediation.

The lab only mentioned lung symptoms in mice, nothing else was noted. Such as the symptoms in mold warriors.

Anyone have any luck remediating this stuff?

[ 15. April 2008, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: cantgiveupyet ]

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Lymetoo
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[shake] Bummer....just what you needed!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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bettyg
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can't so sorry to read this! [group hug] [kiss]

up for wed. morning readers...

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heiwalove
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i'm so sorry.

can i ask, how did you suspect there was toxic mold in your home? ie, are you sicker at home than in other environments?

i hope someone will come along with some helpful advice for you..

hang in there.

[group hug]

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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achey
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Hi
We had toxic mold in our house. attic, basement, window frames, bathroom walls, sills under the doors, and a few windows too.

We did 30k worth of mold abatement.... got the house healthy. It was very stressful, but worth it.

We consulted w/ a couple of indoor environmental specailists and made a decision abt what needed to be done and how.

We have an architect in the family who learned a lot that school and the industry never taught and is designing safer buildings now.

Be glad to help with resources.

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cantgiveupyet
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I suspected it because I havent been well since we moved here 8 years ago, but I also was bit by a tick around that time and started a new job sitting under a vent(for 6 years sat under a vent)

Also, certain days there is a bad odor and I sometimes get dizzy in one of the rooms. I do often feel better outside of the home , but not significantly better.

I suspect the whole house is ruined, there was a bad flood before we moved in, everything was saturated.

I think Im just going to move, dont have the money to remediate.

How do you tell what symptoms are mold though? I seem to be the only one affected this badly, although I am on the top level of the home.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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cantgiveupyet
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Also, how can I prevent moving into another moldy place?

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Lymetoo
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Boy, that would be the hardest thing to know!!

Can you get this same person to come and test the new place?

There should be home testing kits.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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stormton
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I would start by getting yourself a nice organic vapor respirator(2 filter mask). Get some nice rubber nitrile gloves and a bottle of bleach and go around all the window areas and start wiping that stuff up and throw it outside in the garbage. Heating/cooling companies could be hired to clean out the airducts. And the bathroom could have some lurking under or behind the tub. You will have to look around. But I have always seen mold in the area between the two windows. Something to do with the condensation that builds up there.
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cantgiveupyet
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our roof leaks (no money to fix) and NO roofer will just patch it up for me.

Lymetoo- i used a home test kit, and took a tape lift of the area on the bottom of the drywall closest to the floor. I saw a streak of black, and sure enough that was the mold!! It came right off the drywall.

I just think there would be too much to repair here, leaky porch roof too. Its a very very very old house! Im sure the windows are harboring mold, heck they harbour leaves!!!

The month before I got sick, i was looking at a new place to live. Its just frustrating the timing of this all :-(

Dr have told me IC/bladder symptoms arent from mold but from TBD's, but who knows.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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bettyg
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cant, suggestion

pm TROUTSCOUT ... click on directory at top, and then type his name where it asks for names which iwll bring up his profile, and you can send him a pm from there.

they moved out of their mold house; into an apt. and THAT TOO HAD MOLD.

perhaps he can tell you what he learned 1st hand!~ best wishes! [group hug] [kiss]

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WildCondor
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Wow. This is a very dangerous mold and you need to get far far away from it!
My friend had this in her house and it was so bad they had to rip the entire house down. The remediation was so hard and long the mold was so strong it came back! Be VERY careful this mold kills people!!

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cantgiveupyet
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well, ive been feeling like im dying since 2005, but I moved in here in 1999.

Its odd because I do , or used to have some better days. Now , im in a never ending flare up of sorts.

Wildcondor, I wish i could get out of here tonite, but I cant afford to move until this is sold.

Betty-thanks for that tip I will try emailing trout, havent seen him post in a long time.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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bettyg
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here's a post TODAY from troutscout i presented to him on a post HE made....


troutscott
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Member # 3121
posted 14-05-2008 10:48 pm
-----------------
Hey Folks,


Mold...never buy a house with a finished basement...******************************


ask all of the neighbors about water in the house you are looking at.
***************************


Buy books on mold remediation....study them and then apply that knowledge to your house shopping.
************************************************


Kilz.....does NOT stop the mold...it only kills that which it stops.************************


If the home owner feels they MUST perfume up the house for open house days....they are hiding something...********************************


always wait for a rain storm...then go house hunting.**************************************

Its late.....Love Ya'll Trout

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oxygenbabe
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Why shouldn't you buy a house with a finished basement? I have been househunting and found a nice house with a really nice finished basement that didn't seem to have any water intrusion.

Whether finished or not, if a basement has water intrusion that's the issue, right?

Do you know why he said this?

And yes a lot of owners who had pets, and/or mold, put scented candles or glade air freshener out. I leave those homes immediately.

I think there is mold in my apartment, in fact I'm sure of it I just haven't dealt with it yet. It is a definite factor in my problems.

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cantgiveupyet
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thanks Bettyg,

Good idea trout about asking neighbors. I live across the street from yeat another moldy home, the roof leaked, ceilings collapsed, no remediation done, and I woman lives there now.

Asking neighbors is very smart.

What about mobile homes, I know the ones in New Orleans were bad, but are they less moldy in general.

Something is going on with me again, no stamina, weight loss, im just worn out from trying to figure it all out.

Also, good idea about the scented candles, I usually can smell mold in a basement as soon as that basement door opens in a home.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Keebler
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-

Since you say you can't move, can you find the least affected room and put up a nylon tent and rest and sleep in that? You would not want a canvas tent, but a slick material that would not absorb any mold spores.

then work on getting one room fixed, move into that.

I agree with Wild Condor, though, this is very serious. Is there ANYWHERE you can go for a while at least.

You also might have some legal recourse if you had a particular kind of particle board siding on your house. Years ago a bad product caused this kind of mold in many homes and there were many lawsuits.

Call your American Lung Association and learn more about this truly deadly s.b. mold. so sorry, but, hey, you might feel so much better in a new environment.

Also, sad to say, remediation might need to be documented for the sale of your home. Keep all your records, even photos, of the process. If you do it yourself, document that you have followed the prescribed procedures to the letter. It may be required to have an inspector come out when you are finished to document that so you have a certificate of completion.

It is that serious.

And, if you do it yourself, please take the best precautions for your safety. You would still need EXPERT advice. Be sure they are licensed for this kind of advice, too. Again, the American Lung Association can help you with this.

So sorry for this situation. Best of luck to you and may you find some miracles of convenience opening up for you now.

-

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Keebler
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-
One thought, if materials used in your home were involved in lawsuits, your home-owner's policy might provide for temporary housing.

you asked: " . . . What about mobile homes, I know the ones in New Orleans were bad, but are they less moldy in general. . . "

NO, NO, NO . . .unless specifically manufactured with special materials, all new mobile homes are TOXIC, especially to folks with immune stuff going on already - and as we move into the heat of summer. The particle boards and carpet and plastics all emit gasses such as formaldehyde, etc.

Also, some "green" building materials are toxic. "Green" can mean good for energy bills, but not always good for someone's lungs.

An older model of mobile home might work if off-gassed w no new carpeting. However, if there is one leak, mold, too, can be a problem there. Even if older model, you'd want plenty of insulation and I'd remover any gas canister for the stove, and use outdoor cooking - or cook only with windows open.

You might google "KATRINA COTTAGE" or see what LOWELLS or is it LOWES home center has. They have a few models for do it yourself installation.

KATRINA COTTAGES are cute, not toxic, and built to withstand high winds and water.

TINY HOMES, too, if I recall the name, are cute cabin trailers that can be hauled and placed in a backyard, even.

If you put one in your backyard, you might need to check with your local building codes.

================================

http://katrinacottagehousing.org/

The Katrina Cottage A dignified alternative to the FEMA trailer. Safe and affordable homes designed to be more than shelter, Katrina Cottages build ...

----

http://tinyurl.com/vn536 Lowe's home: www.lowes.com

The Lowe's Katrina Cottage Series

--
A Google search will have many other articles and photos available for Katrina Cottages.

==================

TUMBLEWEED HOUSES - very cute, can travel, too.

Building custom-designed small dwellings. Includes photographs, floor plans, delivery charges, prices and FAQs.

www.tumbleweedhouses.com

-

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cantgiveupyet
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thanks for the American lung association tip.

I have nowhere else to go, and to me the whole house is contaminated.

Since we moved in we all used to get fatigued at certain times of the year that was back in 2000 also the time i was bit by a tick.

It appears Im the one affected the most.

I got very ill late 2005.

Im not even touching the mold, im going to sell it as is if I can.

But moving and finding another non moldy houses isnt going to be so easy.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Keebler
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-

I know you want to sell the house as it and get on with your life.

I'm not sure but this is my understanding. It may not be legal to sell until mold remediation (sp?) is complete. By law, at the least IF you can sell it as it, you would have to declare the situation and the new owner would have to sign a waiver to protect you from them coming back and suing you. Even a waiver, though, may not protect you from a lawsuit.

Be sure to get expert legal advice on how to proceed and read all the fine print in your county and state rules on such matters.

It is complicated but, again, someone at the American Lung Association might have some great contact numbers for you.

=

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cantgiveupyet
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good point,

the roof leaks, so that would be declared, i will have to check about the mold.

by the time all is said and done, i will most likely keep getting sicker....its just too complex and overwhelming.

Im so exhausted from dr not knowing what direction to go, is it bart, mold, etc, etc.

I will see what the american lung association has to offer about the legality of all of this.

I know it wasnt delcared on my neighbors house, the leaky roof was, the mold wasnt.

I wonder if the mold, causes my increased appetite, and this weight loss. Its so sad to think a house could be making me this ill.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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bettyg
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oxygen, email trout/kent with a PM; i have no knowledge. he was kind enough to answer my post when i was thinking about can'ts situation, on the post he started.


he's rarely here; pm would work the best.

keebler, i agree; i met a man last year parking car/valet; he has mold in his home, and can NOT MOVE OR SELL IT!! he was 70-75 and he had other major things going on too; so sad! [group hug]

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oxygenbabe
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I'm pretty sure I have bad mold behind my tiles in my sheetrock in my bathroom and it comes out into the grout of the tile every so often, and I just have to get my act together to take pictures, tell management, call the buildings dept etc. Someone else in our building did it. But I don't trust remediation and I would want to move all my belongings out while they do it, I'm so afraid of the contamination of spores that everyone talks about. It has to be done by very good people.

In any case I can only assume Trout thinks mold is behind walls in finished basements and you can't see.

From my research, before you buy a house, make sure all walls have been moisture tested. You'll find any moisture and therefore any hidden leaks. This is not customary with house inspections but I'm going to insist. In the main bathroom of this house I was very annoyed to see that the ceiling vent had cobwebs on it meaning the idiot people living in the house take shower without venting. But I still didn't detect any mold issues or discoloration. However while I was in the nice basement room of this house I felt comfortable and usually I can tell if there's a mold issue in a house when I walk in. Anyway, moisture testing will reveal any water intrusion anywhere, along with a visual inspection. Panelling however is not good as that covers up walls.

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Keebler
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-

You might check the contract with the most recent roofer. Was there a guarantee or warranty ? Even if not, if the wrong materials might have been used, you may have grounds for their setting this right.

As we are approaching summer break for student of high school and college, I wonder if you had a contractor licensed in remediation of Stachybotrys sp. if a volunteer crew could be gathered.

This could be a valuable training session for others and perhaps someone would underwrite it - or simply volunteer.

there may be some organizations in existence that help people in this situation.

Molds are not good, of course, but certain molds are much more serious. Stachybotrys sp is one one those.

I do hope you can easily find an organization to offer suggestions and practical help.


-

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cantgiveupyet
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Keebler, excellent idea,

Only thing is I dont know where i would go during remediation. Nowhere to go. And like oxygenbabe, i just worry about all the spores.

What happend is the previous owners(now both deceased) had a roof put on, they were elderly and we suspect that the roofers took advantage of them.

There is one whole section that was never replaced, and thus is now leaking.

I just wish I knew about all this mold stuff, i never would have moved into this dump. It had a massive leak the month I moved in before I even went to settlement, but I bought it as is.

My parents live here too, but of course they dont really believe the mold is making me ill....nor can they stay while i live elsewhere. It's just such a mess all around, really.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Keebler
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-

The American Red Cross has a fund for those displaced by natural disasters. You might ask them if this might apply. If not, they may have an idea.

You said your house had been flooded before you moved it - and that your roof leak may be the cause. Both/either of those might fit some guidelines for help.

If you have a college near you, some campuses rent out rooms during the summer. You might ask if they would be in the position of just taking whatever the utilities would cost.

you might see if there is an Abbey or monastery near you that provided retreats of a week or so - and ask about a sliding scale.

What about a convent? they may not be using all the rooms.

Putting a page up on church or synagog bulletin boards might connect you with people willing - and happy - of offer a room or two in their home for you to work through this process.

For remediation, you may be able to stay in the home, but not the part being worked on. My friend did, with precautions.

If you stay at someone's home, you might have to travel very light and have clothes that have not been sitting in the closet, but you can get advice on that, again, from remediation specialist as it if that is necessary. Suitcases, etc. that may be affected would need attention.

Overwhelming, sure. But there may be a way to do this. Assume others will be HAPPY to do this, with setting up a system to help others as well. It's time for community the way it is intended to be.

-

[ 15. May 2008, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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TerryK
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Hey Cantgiveup,
Could you get something to bind the mycotoxins and get them out of your body like cholestyramine until you can get out of there?

That should help you avoid getting any sicker and will help you drain the toxins from your body, perhaps even making you feel better. Important since that is supposedly what makes people feel sick - the mycotoxins.

The fact that you are sicker since moving in could mean that you don't make enough of the necessary antibodies to rid yourself of the toxins. Or maybe you aren't able to get rid of the toxins fast enough. In any case, please strongly consider asking your doctor to help you figure out how to bind the toxins and remove them.

Check out Dr. S's neurotoxin protocol. He is the Doctor who wrote mold warriors.

Don't remove any mold without reading carefully about how to avoid spreading the spores around. At the very least, you need to wet the area before attempting any clean up since they will become airborne if you don't.

Wall boards that have been contaminated must be replaced since mold has tendrils that go inside the wall and nothing you use on the surface will kill them.

Less pourous surfaces might be able to be cleaned to get rid of the mold but bleach is not a very good killer from what I've read. You need an EPA approved mold killer.

Sorry you have to deal with this awful situation. I hope you can get out of there soon.

Terry

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SoSublyme
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So sorry to hear about your mold problem--we had to do a major mold remedition after a contractor working in our basement accidentally released stachybotrys spores thru our a/c system into the rest of our home.

I realize you are in a terrible situation right now and are stuck where you are. But I hope you can have an indoor air sampling done for mold.

A certified mold testing lab or remediator should take timed samples of both your indoor and outdoor air for comparison.

Unfortunately for us that's how we found out that we did have a significant amount of stachy spores in our indoor air and had to evacuate to a friend's house for a couple of weeks.

We were able to move back in for the rest of the remediation after we cleared the air, sealed off a living area and kept the a/c off.

Your problem seems a bit more widespread than ours and I'm worried about what you might be breathing in--it really is toxic stuff.

You may already have had the air testing done--I just wanted to make sure.

Also, a couple of books you may be interested in, "The Mold Survival Guide:For Your Health" and "My House Is Killing Me!, both by Jeffrey C. May. Best of luck to you.

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cantgiveupyet
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I only had the tapelift done not an air sample,

I will ask my LLMD what to do in the meantime, but they basically said I need to get out of there, and Dr S's protocol doesnt work.

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TerryK
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Cantgiveup - just to clarify - are you saying that your LLMD has said that Dr. S's protocol doesn't work?

That's the first I've heard anyone say that. I wonder why they are saying that, do you know?

I've been on the protocol for over 2 years and when I miss a few doses, I can usually tell because I feel worse.

If you haven't tried it, perhaps you can talk them in to allowing you to try it or maybe take something else that you can buy over the counter to bind toxins?


Terry

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asus
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I think whether Dr. S protocol works depends on how long you have been exposed to the mold, what your genetics are, and how able you are to get away from it (incl all your possesisions that have mold in them). And thats just to get the mold part dealt with. I think if you have secondary infections from the mold induced immune supression, you have to treat those too.... I don't think its as simple as he makes it out to be in his book.

Also, you asked:

Also, how can I prevent moving into another moldy place?

Check out:

http://www.biotoxin.info/shoemakerblog/viewtopic.php?t=22

asus

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
In any case I can only assume Trout thinks mold is behind walls in finished basements and you can't see.

I think that's what he meant.

Also.. I do know that he and his family took very little with them. They threw out most clothes and bedding.

I couldn't understand why washing and drying the clothes wouldn't fix the problem??

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--Lymetutu--
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oxygenbabe
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That link to "ERMI" sounds suspicious to me. Its a company promoting itself. Besides, from what I understand, stachy, the really bad one, only periodically sends out spores, not continually.

I think supposedly mold toxins are not destroyed by washing and drying. Who knows...this is an evolving science, and I read that at least for pillows (which within 3 months of use get lots of dust mites and fungi), washing, and then drying for an hour on high, will 'refresh' them.

I think the moisture testing idea is better. Moisture test all the walls. If you discover dampness in a wall, then open it up and see if there is a leak you didn't know about. You can't have mold without water.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
I think supposedly mold toxins are not destroyed by washing and drying.

OH... That makes sense.

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--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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cantgiveupyet
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I heard exposing items to the sunlight might kill the mold.

The LLMD, just said that Dr S's protocol isnt so simple and doesnt always work, its not the answer. Your guess is as good as mine.

Not sure if I could tolerate the constipating affects.

Interestingly I was on part of the kane protocol where they use PC photelsetelcholine(i spelled it wrong) and my vision test improved on that, and I did feel a little better. It irritates my bladder though if i take it for too many days. Im going to try it again.

the stress from knowing that the mold is here, really is too much for me to handle it really is.

I think up here, it is not in my bedroom, as the leak is in my TV room and the closet, mostly the closet...so, might not be as bad as i thought.

How do you water test a wall?

--------------------
"Say it straight simple and with a smile."

"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet,
But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."

-Schopenhauer

pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg

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Keebler
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-

Ed MacMahon (Johnny Carson's side-kick) and the real Erin Brocavich (sp?) (the film about chromium in the water in Calif.) both had this in their homes and become very ill.

One of the three major networks - on a magazine program such as 60 minutes, 20/20 or one the NBC programs - did a feature about them several years ago. In both their cases, it was the wall board or the siding with cellulose fiber that was the big attraction for the s.b.

-
Oh, while new motor homes have lots to off-gas, maybe you could rent an older one that has off-gassed and has no new carpet, etc., for a while and either sit in your drive way or go to a campground for while.

-

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Terminator
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cantgiveupyet if you're still around, what company did you buy the test strips from, and which lab evaluated the strips?

--------------------
We will win

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