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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Biofilm

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Author Topic: Biofilm
GiGi
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Biofilm

A healthy biofilm assures the proper transport and absorption of nutrients and a well functioning immune and nervous system in the wall of the bowel.

Repeated use of antibiotics in the treatment of Lyme Disease, the extensive use of supplements containing magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide allows pathogenic bacteria, molds and viruses to form a different pathologic biofilm, which is nearly indestructible by our own defenses.

It persists, acts as a culture medium and training school for pathogenic microbes, blocks absorption of critical micronutrients, protects parasites, yeasts and bacteria from the reach of the host's patrolling white cells and is a major cause of chronic illness.

Some remedials: NaEDTA with biofilm braking enzymes, antimicrobials, freeze dried garlic. Clean up bowel wall and decrease ammonia: Chlorella, Ecklonia Cava, charcoal, pectin, clay, fibers. Fermented foods: Kombucha, chitosan, Lectin Lock. Restoring the natural biofilm with sauerkraut, okra, eating the grated lightly browned apple in the morning (my favorite - been doing it for years - all helpful.

This was a subject much discussed at Dr. K.'s "Healing the Brain" Seminar several months ago. Thought you might be interested.

Take care

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kelmo
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quote:
Repeated use of antibiotics in the treatment of Lyme Disease, the extensive use of supplements containing magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide allows pathogenic bacteria, molds and viruses to form a different pathologic biofilm, which is nearly indestructible by our own defenses.
Pretty cool, Gigi. When I brought this up two years ago, I was about stoned off the board!
My LLMD has been saying that bartonella uses magnesium to create a biofilm for years.

By the way...my daughter never supplemented and has never had low magnesium.

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ByronSBell 2007
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this is why I am going on heparin in less than a week [Smile]
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sparkle7
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I thought heparin was a blood thinner?

I love all these inexpensive simple remedies like saurkraut, grated apples gone alittle brown, etc. Even I can afford that!

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Rianna
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NAC decreases Biofilm of many bacteria and has many supportive clinical studies and trials, here is one of many
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1855497

I know heparin has many properties and boulouke is used to break down the fibrogen layers that get deposited on the capillary walls, and obviously is a blood thinner.

Both of these actions enable better delivery of antibiotics and of course breaking down the layer upon layer of fibrogen enables hidden lyme to be exposed and treated by the antibiotic -

ALTHOUGH I am very unsure if Heparin prevents Biofilm and would like to see some studies on this if available.

Rianna

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adamm
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Wait--antibiotic use can make the biofilm problem worse?
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aliyalex
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In addition to the garlic which I had stopped, but now restarted due to GiGi's prompting, and NAC and many other protocols ordered by Dr K, I started drinking a quart of green smoothies daily. They consist of a rotation of greens such as kale, chard, romaine, parsley, etc. and bananas, apples, mango, etc.

Overnight the edema in my feet got better and I see all these white things in my feces. Wish I had a microscope. here were other positive changes as well. Anybody do this? Maybe I will post a separate topic. Will talk to Dr K about it in July. It will be interesting to see how my ART testing changes.

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kelmo
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I don't think the antibiotics do it, it's only the magnesium.
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lymster
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GIGI, thanks for all your advise.
Questions:
-what is the: "grated lightly browned apple in the morning"?
-how does the okra need to be prepared to be eficient?

aliyalex:
- hoe do you prepare quart of green smoothies daily?

Thank you,
lymster in WA

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mrpotto
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This is so complicated. For instance: I have bartonella so I'm taking levaquin so... I need to take magnesium or my tendons will rupture but apparently magnesium helps the bartonella thrive within the biofilm?

I'm not taking heparin but take baby aspirin and omega oils to thin the blood. Also is heparin available in pill form or does it have to be injected? I had a blood clot a few years back and was on rat poison, er I mean coumadin and had to inject heparin initially. I really wish I could thin my blood the old fashion way-by downing a six pack! Probably not a great idea considering how toxic levaquin is though.

Chris

--------------------
dx in Dec 2003
tested 2x positive for bart
Lightly Chelating
3 weeks off abx and 1 week on:

10 day course a month: Plaq/Ceftin/Rifampin/Biaxin with Tindamax on last two days

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kelmo
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My doc says that heparin is important because it keeps the organisms from sticking to the red blood cell. Both bartonella and babesia cling to the RBC.

There is a lozenge form, but I hear the injections aren't bad and they're much cheaper.

As for the leviquan and magnesium. That may be why my LLMD does not prescribe leviquan.

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Cass A
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Dear Chris,

On magnesium, the original post says MAGNESIUM STEARATE is what causes the problem, which is a common binder in pills. I have never seen a magnesium supplement with that form of magnesium in it.

Second, why not try systemic enzymes like Rechts Regulat (really does thin the blood out!!) or Vitalzyme? If you're very serious about getting fibrin out of the capillaries, you could take lumbrokinase (it's very expensive).

Best,

Cass A

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Lymetoo
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Aspirin does not clear fibrin.

--------------------
 -
oops!
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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tosho
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Is it safe to take Rechts-regulat while on Levaquin ? (few hours away, of course)

I have some bottles of Rechts-Regulat left but I really like to be sure of possible interactions with Levaquin.

Thanks [Smile]

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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mrpotto
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Where can I get Rechts-regulat? At a vitamin's store?

Thanks for the info.

--------------------
dx in Dec 2003
tested 2x positive for bart
Lightly Chelating
3 weeks off abx and 1 week on:

10 day course a month: Plaq/Ceftin/Rifampin/Biaxin with Tindamax on last two days

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sixgoofykids
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What about Serrapeptase? Will it do what Heparin does?

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

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aliyalex
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Lymster:

Blend the green smoothie. It is superior to juicing.
http://www.seekeronline.org/journals/y2005/nov05.html

Others:

Sorry for the digression.

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GiGi
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Here are some more of my notes on biofilm; don't have time to clean them up:

Take a look at the fine print on all the supplement bottles - magnesium stearate in almost all of them. It is a "flowing" agent.

Fibrin recently talked about is an aspect of the biofilm problem, but it isn't the whole story.. Magnesium stearate feeds the bug, and the more supplement we take, the more we are feeding the biofilm. We need to shift to supplements that do not contain mag stearate.

(Titanium oxide is completely catastrophic because it causes autoimmune diseases. Read the fine print on your supplement containers.)

The information originally came from Bob Jones (scientist researcher, inventor of Cavitat)) who evaluated why cavitations after surgery of the jaw often don't heal and why and how bacteria and molds and viruses establish themselves in a system that has a very effective immune system - we have one of the best immune systems on the planet - how come that we can get chronic infections? The answer is Biofilm.

Biofilm is a trick microbes use that build communities that viruses and bacteria and the secrete a jell-like substance that is full of toxic substances that is not toxic to them, but toxic to our immune system. Biofilm can be on any membrane in the body. Those who do tooth whitening - what you are actually whitening is cleaning off the biofilm on the tooth - a whitened tooth is the tooth minus the biofilm that grows on there.

But you get biofilm inside the inner lining of the blood vessels. You get biofilm along the fascia plains of the body and the worst biofilm is the one in the gut. We know now for sure that the biofilm in the gut is one of the major problems - at least in autistic children.

The science on that is new, but it is pretty clear that the biofilm in the gut first of all is established most of you that have Lyme Disease or think you do - most of your Lyme bugs do not live in the brain, --- 99 percent of them live in the bowels and in the gut; if you have a chronic mycoplasma infection, 99 percent live in the gut - not in your brain and in the places where the symptoms come from. This is their homebase from which they patrol out and try to conquer new colonies - the bugs consider us their planet and they try conquering new territory and are overpopulating it when they can, Microcosm of the Greater World.

What does the biofilm do to us? First of all, the pathological biofilm prevents the absorption of nutrients. That's the basic thing of why we got into the new vitamin craze in the last 40 years. The reason we take vitamins, is the biofilm. It's not that we are really that deficient in nutrition - in general our nutrition is better now than a hundred years ago -- We get through the winter - we don't just eat potatoes in the winter - we criticize and doubt the mineral content in the food - which is an issue - I do think people should take minerals. The biofilm is getting more nutrition and the bugs are forming more solid inner tube - like the inner tube of a car tire - that doesn't let anything go through.

A Lyme patient taking many antibiotics will have a thick biofilm that is at least 2-3 mm thick - a big membrane that is building inside the gut. And one has to take more and more refined additional supplements to get enough for your body - it is a losing battle because the biofilm will grow faster than you benefit.
The biofilm will outgrow what we can do. So it has become one of the primary issues in treating autistic children and anyone with a brain disorder if you want to get any nutrients into the brain and you don't have the opportunity to inject them every day

We also have biofilm growing in the inner lining of the blood vessels and we have biofilm on the blood brain barrier. Biofilm everywhere.

To break through all this, the solution that is very clear from science: (A.Usman.)
Crack biofilm with enzymes (Lumbrokin.) - it takes the protection away, but the bugs are still there. And then you need to kill the bugs. We do this with different herbals. Or with Garlic.. etc/ You also have to clean the bowel wall of biotoxins, dead bodies. High dose of chlorella. Next favorite is grated apple in the morning.

Grate the apple coarsely, let it brown slightly.
What happens: the injured apple defends itself against a hostile invasion of something and thereby releases many antioxidative enzymes - if you had to by these in a vitamin shop for lots money. Combine it with apple pectin, lots of chlorella, the new kid on the block is Ecklonia cava, ( brown algae, etc. extract(also used for weight loss) deeper healing agent than EDTA.

**************************************************
Rechtsregulat is a great blood thinner. To my knowledge, it does not interfer with any meds. There is an English and Germany booklet available (about 100 pages) describing
it. You might want to google it. There is a lot of talk here and some content of the booklet on this board if you do a search on Rechtsregulat.

**************************************************Vitalzyme contains Titanium Dioxide unless you get Vitalzyme X that they now sell also because of the danger of Titanium dioxide (autimmune problems and cancer)

**************************************************


Take care.

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yanivnaced
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Interesting about the intestinal lining of biofilm.

I wonder if a salt water flush would dissolve it.

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djf2005
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is anyone currently doing this? (clearing biofilm)

so is it my understanding that lumbrokinase will effectively break down the biofilm wall?

im currently using abx and herbs in my lyme px so that should kill them, then i use burbur and parsley, chlorella, and questran and that should clean it out...

any thoughts? scott, gigi,?

this seems like a BIG part in healing, and it does seem like my body absorbs stuff alot less then it used to...

thanks in advance

-derek

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

djfemailbox@yahoo.com

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djf2005
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bump for me [Smile]

thanks!

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

djfemailbox@yahoo.com

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mojo
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I just started taking Serrapeptase with the full Cowden a couple of weeks ago. It is supposed to deal with the fibrin issue - I hope it does!
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lymie_in_md
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Is the following "Wonder Labratories" product a biofilm destroyer? They are selling EDTA with the following and they state highly resistent to stomach acid:

Dietary Supplement
Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Capsule

Amount Per Serving

EDTA(as Ethylenediaminetetraacetic Acid) 625 mg*

*Daily Value not established

Other ingredients: Gelatin, vegetable cellulose, vegetable magnesium sterate, silica.

--------------------
Bob

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djf2005
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BOB-

what is the name of the product and where did you get it?

thanks

-d

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

djfemailbox@yahoo.com

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lymie_in_md
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This is the link, but I'm not sure of it. I'm hoping wiser lymers might have an idea about it.

This is the link:

http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=9762

--------------------
Bob

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GiGi
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"Repeated use of antibiotics in the treatment of Lyme Disease, the extensive use of supplements containing magnesium stearate and titanium dioxide allows pathogenic bacteria, molds and viruses to form a different pathologic biofilm, which is nearly indestructible by our own defenses."

From my first post on biofilm. Read it carefully.

Please note that the EDTA that you are quoting contains again magnesium stearate.

A long time ago I did a check on every single bottle of supplements that I have on shelves, nearly every single one contains mag stearate. They are all going to do dump when I have time to sort things through.

Most Dr. K. people are down to chlorella, cilantro, rizole oils and herbal tinctures%2

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lymie_in_md
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I did notice it on the capsule. In my case I'll start removing any supplement containing and replace it. Is there a good NaEDTA that is an acceptable supplement for removing the biofilm?

--------------------
Bob

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lymie_in_md
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I just found the following in removing biofilm a product recommend is detoxamin the link is in the summary:

full article : http://www.immed.org/treatment%20considerations/MorgellonsDis%5B1%5D.revised2.rtf

Summary:

NOTES ON MORGELLONS SYNDROME (DISEASE)

Revised Patient Information (Updated 7/16/07) from

The Institute for Molecular Medicine and
The Morgellons Research Foundation
.
.
.
9. Reduction in biofilm is important. MD is associated with the production of biofilm that can harbor bacteria, increase chronic bacterial infections and interfere with normal tissue processes. Biofilm is also important in cardiovascular disease. We recommend using Detoxamin EDTA chelation suppositories (World Health Products, www.detoxamin.com) to safely remove divalent metals that hold together biofilm. Start slowly with one overnight suppository per week and slowly increase to every other day. You may notice a Herxheimer-like reaction when bacteria are released from biofilm as it is mobilized. Detoxamin is usually taken with antibiotics to kill associated bacteria that are released when biofilm is solubilized. A vitamin-mineral supplement should also be taken each day while on Detoxamin.

--------------------
Bob

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djf2005
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gigi-

nearly every supplement made including high grade probiotics such as theralac and ultra flora have magnesium stearate.

i do agree we should avoid it whenever possible but its not likely to not consume it ever again.

my question is what is the most effective way to remove or break down the biofilm?

i can not afford IV edta etc so will something like lumbrokinase suffice to break down biofilm?

thanks!

d

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

djfemailbox@yahoo.com

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SForsgren
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In my understanding, Lumbrokinase alone will not break down the biofilm. The protocol I have seen is Disodium EDTA orally with SPS-30 (not Lumbrokinase though in theory it would be similar). When I did this, I used EDTA and SPS-30. I had to stop as the EDTA at the time was adding a lot of stress to my body but the time will come that I will likely reintroduce it. Best

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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SForsgren
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http://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=9762

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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lymie_in_md
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Thanks Scott, I'll post a link for the sps-30.

http://www.functionalhealthsolutions.com/product_info.php/products_id/276

I think the biofilm is one of the main issues I've still to conquer. I'll be using MMS and few other anti-microbials as the means to kill flushed out pathogens, I can't handle ABX.

Thanks Gigi for all the information about biofilm.

--------------------
Bob

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lymie_in_md
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I found the following information fascinating and thought pass it on and lymies have biofilm too:

******

True Health Medical Center:
"Potential Implication of Biofilm Formation in Patients with ASD",
Presented to the Defeat Autism Now Think Tank, Oct. 11, 2007

I presented a theory about the implications of biofilm production by resistant
strains of bacteria/fungus in our ASD patients who have persistent dysbiosis.
The literature search that I conducted with the help of Teresa Conrick, MS and
Sonja Hintz, RN was quite convincing. The abnormal production of biofilm by
resistant strains of microorganisms may be a possible etiology of why many of
our patients who do not have positive stool cultures for yeast or pathogenic
bacteria do well when placed on antifungals and antibiotics, yet relapse when
they stop. The biofilm produced by these resistant organisms can only be seen
by electron microscopy and makes it difficult to culture these bugs. This theory
might also explain subtypes of our ASD subpopulation who have abnormal
behaviors, such as head banging or agitation, that seem to be gut pain related,
yet again have negative studies. The third subset that this seems relevant for
is the group of children that have recurrent strep
infections, OCD, perseverative, or repetitive behaviors who get worse in the
spring and fall, yet may not test positive for strep.

Why do so many of our ASD kids have persistent dysbiosis? This is my theory.
We all know that the quality of our air, water and food is not ideal and
contains numerous toxins and pollutants. Our children have a genetic
susceptibility in their ability to handle this toxic burden. Research shows us
that resistant organisms tend to grow in toxic, hostile environments, and after
numerous rounds of antibiotics. They maintain their viability by producing a
polysaccharide matrix that protects them from the hostile environment in which
they are trying to survive. This extracellular matrix is called biofilm. Our
normal flora also produce a natural biofilm, but resistant organisms produce
their own biofilm which then takes over, preventing the normal flora from
flourishing. Experiments done in vitro show that this polysaccharide matrix is
negatively charged, and that it is held together by positively charged ions such
as Ca, Mg, and Fe. Iron seems to play a big role in how
these bacteria evade the immune system. Further work on VRSA/MRSA and
pseudomonas biofilms in vitro indicate that this biofilm may be penetrated by
using a combination of EDTA and an antibiotic; the studies used Vancomycin for
Staph and Gentamicin for Pseudomonas.

The protocol that my staff and I developed was presented in its infancy at the
October 2007 Think Tank. The Defeat Autism Now Think Tank is usually a forum
where ideas are presented for discussion and further research. This protocol
was not discussed in great detail (15 minutes was allotted for this discussion),
and it was not meant for wide distribution at this time. However, Dr.
Bradstreet presented it in his talk on New Advancements and clinicians and
patients from all over the world are now asking for our protocol.

However, let me start with a few caveats. First of all, this is brand new.
We have used this approach on about 60 patients. The first two were Teresa's
and Sonja's children - one with ASD/self injurious behavior and one with
colitis, no ASD. Both initial patients are doing well. However, this treatment
has to be individualized for each patient's unique constitution and ability to
handle both die-off and detox type reactions. From our other patients we are
seeing a variety of responses from decreased hyperactivity and stimming, to
increased agitation, to no response. Of course we may have a few bumps along our
journey to recovery. The big bumps with this approach are related to awakening
the immune system to these organisms which it has not been recognizing. The
body finally sees the bacteria or the candida that has been there creating other
types of havoc all along. Acutely, patients may experience vomiting, diarrhea,
high temps. Rashes may appear, especially if
the die off is sudden. The other theoretical issue is that the biofilm may be
holding on to toxic metals such as aluminum and lead. As this toxic biofilm
degrades heavy metals may be released into the gastrointestinal tract for
excretion. Our protocol was developed to address this possibility.

I urge all of you to have patience and wait for us to gather more data on this
approach so that you are presented with the safest, most effective protocol.
Remember, your doctor should implement this approach gradually with the unique
needs of your child in mind. Because of the possibility for negative side
effects, and the need to closely monitor the patients, and the possible use of
pharmaceuticals, this treatment plan should be implemented only with the help of
your physician.


True Health Gut Biofilm Protocol

Step One: Lysis and Detachment of the Polysaccharide Matrix
(empty stomach, 30-60 min prior to Step 2)
-Use of specific enzymes. (these are being refined and developed, as the
enzymes we have available at this moment are not ideal)
-Use of a chelator that can grab hold of minerals in the Matrix. (if not
implemented appropriately this may cause mineral depletion in the body - do not
attempt chelation without proper medical supervision)

Step Two: Target the Microbe
- Consider using antibiotics, herbals, or homeopathics. (our office has had
extensive experience with all three modalities, and have found that the choice
"depends upon the kid". We are also researching a fourth modality that looks
quite promising for eradicating these pesty organisms.

Step Three: Clean Up
(This is the most crucial of all the steps. DO NOT SKIP!!! Give 1-2 hrs
after Step 2 if possible or at night)
-Here we use anything that can bind up the matrix (mucus), by products of die
off, and potential metals in the gut.
Products include activated charcoal, alginate, clays, algaes, zeolites,.... we
like pectin the best. Sometimes we use all of the above.

Other important factors
-Probiotics, of course.
-Anti-inflammatory agents such as EFA's, antioxidants, curcumin...
-Natural fermented foods such as kefir, kombucha...
-Healthful, non toxic foods (hormone- free, antibiotic-free, organic)

This is a short-term treatment plan, we are using it for about 2-3 months.

This protocol is still being developed and is not fully defined. We have only
been using this for about 6 months in a specific subgroup of our patients.
Remember, our ultimate goal is to restore the normal flora and the normal
biofilm. This takes time and the process is slow. It took years for some our
patients to reach this point, it may take time to reverse.

With hope for a better future for our kids and grandkids,

Dr. Anju Usman
Medical Director
True Health Medical Center
603 E. Diehl Rd. Suite 135
Naperville, Illinois

True Health Medical Center, June 2007

--------------------
Bob

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sparkle7
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Is there any way to test for this biofilm? Are there ways to self-test or some indications that it's an issue?

It all sounds good in theory but I don't like to treat something unless I really know it's a problem for me.

I spent so much money & time on stuff that either did nothing or I couldn't tell the difference. I decided that if I take a drug or supplement & I don't feel any different after a month or 2 - it's not worth taking.

I might be wrong but it's just crazy to spend thousands of dollars on stuff & not feel any different. Many of the things we take seem good in theory but do they actually work?

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djf2005
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i agree sparkle. frustrating huh?

[Smile]

-d

--------------------
"Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."

djfemailbox@yahoo.com

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lymie_in_md
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I doubt there is a test for biofilm, its is probably a soup of bacteria friendly proteins that cloak the bacteria from the immune system.

And yeah, I'm frustated with the endless drain of dollars and never knowing the value of what I'm putting in me.

As far as biofilm, I would assume we all have it. Bacteria are kind of like birds building a nest to protect themselves.

As we age and there is more pathogenic bacteria in our bodies the nests get bigger. Add lyme, add a parasite, add viruses, add an increase in toxins and we get more and more biofilm in our bodies. Add in all the magnesium stearate from all the supplements. At least that is was I've read on the internet and here. I'm just trying to look at it logically we have biofilm, we just don't know how much. And if we try to correct the situation with NaEDTA and others, we have to assess it ourselves.

Maybe someone knowledgeable about ART could tell us if it tests for biofilm and levels.

Sparkle this would have been a good question for le-machine in Chia Pet's thread. Maybe the machine picks it up.

--------------------
Bob

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SForsgren
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I am not aware of a specific test in ART for biofilms. I will inquire further. I know one can do direct resonance testing for mag stearate or you can see if the body wants EDTA or SPS-30, etc. but I don't know of a "biofilm" test specifically.

--------------------
Be well,
Scott

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sparkle7
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lymie in md - re: "Sparkle this would have been a good question for le-machine in Chia Pet's thread. Maybe the machine picks it up."

Chia Pet must have removed the thread... it's gone!

That was something I was really interested in... Don't know why it was removed.

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lymie_in_md
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Sparkle I tried to find it as well and couldn't and agree it was a good thread.

As far as biofilm, I looked at logically as this. We all have biofilm because of pathogenic bacteria. It is simply a matter of degree. At least from the limited review of internet threads.

I really believe biofilm is new territory for science. Science only understands biofilm because it contaminate catheters and other medical equipment. So the've devised ways and products to combat it.

If pathogenic bacteria are to survive they need protection, biofilm on catheters or in our bodies. The degree of problems or symptoms is probably body burden of pathogens (bacteria, parasites, and viruses). In looking generically at all our situations is lyme increases all other pathogens. The pathogens create nests like birds to shelter and protect themselves. So logically a lymie has more viruses/bacteria and parasites -- add in toxins and age.

If we treat with antibiotics the biofilm is still there. There is no relieve until the biofilm is removed.

As far as testing, we would be are own guinea pigs on this. We could use detoxatrim and sps-30 and find out.

Scott noticed he couldn't do too much of it because it was too hard to do at this point in his treatment. We know Gigi got better by attacking. And we know a good number of the alternative doctors find it very important to treat in autistic patients.

We're not much different then those who are autistic. We have an unexplained set of symptoms relative to body burden.

I've order the products and I'll give it a shot and let you know what I find.

--------------------
Bob

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GiGi
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Pardon the finer details:

When I did "Arise and Shine" a couple of years before I got really sick, after a week or two of that parasite/cleansing program, I "delivered" a piece of material that was over an inch wide and 4-5 inches long that looked exactly like a piece of the mudd flap of a truck that had come off. I tried to cut it with a razor blade - I couldn't. That was two years before I had the insect bite that took me to the ground and nearly destroyed me and my family.

I keep thinking that this is a part of what Biofilm looks like and why Dr. K. was so emphatic when he started to talk about it at a recent "Healing the Brain" seminar. He is now at the point where the "sacks of vitamin and other supplements" patients bring in for testing are out, using only the very therapeutic ones.
Eat good foods.

But I am absolutely certain that
all improvement starts with a cleansing of the gut. Look at the Dr. Natura program, much talked about here, or any of the others. Arise and Shine is tops, but it is more difficult/a bit more restrictive than the others.

Take good care and make it a great day.

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tosho
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Is it possible to use Arise&Shine while on antibiotics ?

--------------------
[Bb WB igm+] [B.henselae PCR+] [Chlamydia pneum.igm+igg+] [EBV igm-igg+]

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GiGi
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Tosho, I am not sure. I would call the "Arise and Shine" people or ask your doctor --if he believes in intestinal cleanses.

If you read through the "Lyme Disease: A Look Beyond Antibiotics" -- it is clear that this type of cleansing is most important - Dr. K. puts it ahead of much else. If the gut is contaminated, and parasites take away your nutrients before you can have the benefit of them, everything else is sort of a waste of time and money, especially if you have been at the Lyme treatment for a while, such as you have, if I remember correctly.

Maybe you should research this a bit.

Good luck and be well.

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adamm
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Wait--Gigi--so if the abx aren't clearing up our sx, should

we just

go off and cut our losses so we at least minimize biofilm

development? (5 months

of treatment has done nothing for me.)

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GiGi
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Adamm, I don't dare answer this truthfully. I probably would stop and change gear.
If you see no improvement, you would probably not test positive for the same abx with any energetic testing. If you did test positive with energetic testing, you should have seen some improvement after six months. My doctor would have probably long gone to "do what works". Most likely something more important is being overlooked.

Are you metal free in the mouth? Do you still have your wisdom teeth or old wisdom teeth sites that are not clean? (usually they are not)
Are you exposed to toxins? at work or hobbies?
Are you exposed to mold?
Is your digestion in order?
Do you have allergic reactions to some food?
Are you exposed to electromagnetism at home, your sleeping location, IPod (very bad), microwave towers near your home?

Do some searching and maybe you can find someone who does ART or other good muscle testing. You might be surprised.

Good luck!

Do some searching - abx does not have any positives for the few I listed.

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adamm
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no exposure to molds, fillings, food allergies, digestive/yeast

issues, or higher levels of

exposure to EM radiation than anyone else. tis weird.

I was able to get y wisdom teeth extracted last fall

with no problems.

maybe babs?

[ 09. May 2008, 12:47 AM: Message edited by: adamm ]

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Cass A
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Dear Friends,

The biofilm issue is one that is tackled directly by Trevor Marshall. He has many posts about it, with links to scientific articles by others, if you care to read them.

You can search "biofilm" as a topic at http://www.marshallprotocol.com

Whether or not you want to DO the MP, this is valuable data, in my opinion.

Best,

Cass A

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heiwalove
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GiGi - this might be a little off topic, but given that you brought up parasite cleanses, please see my most recent post about possible c diff? i'm having lots of intestinal symptoms after a stomach flu a couple months ago, symptoms that had been clearing up with TBD, etc, treatment, and i'm not sure what's going on. A.R. is having me stop all supplements and herbs for the moment and work on healing my gut - l-glutamine, slippery elm, aloe, etc. she also suggested freeze-dried garlic with kefir 20 minutes before meals, as well as finding a doc here to do stool cultures.

it might be parasites, i know, but if it's c diff (and the symptoms are certainly c diff-like and more acute than anything i've experienced before) it's recommended NOT to do parasite/colon cleanses. i have colonix waiting for me but am too afraid to try it when i'm this symptomatic in the GI area. wish i had A.R. to ART test me right this minute. sigh. she'll be back next month i believe but until then it's all guesswork.

anyway, i would greatly, greatly appreciate any insight you might have.

thanks so much,
heather.

--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/violinexplosion

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lymie_in_md
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Heather, one explanation for your loose bowels could be dehydration and toxins. We can be dehydrated due to many things. Do a little research on this and see if it matches to what your body is telling you. Loose bowels is a definite symptom. If your mouth or skin are dry these are other indicators.

A stomach flu or just the flu will cause a certain amount of dehydration as your body is trying to use fluids to remove the invaders.

If your drinking just water you might want to switch to drinks with electrolytes for a while.

A home remedy I found is to use maybe a tablespoon of organic molasses for the potassium a 1/4 teaspoon of unrefined sea salt and a 1/4 teaspoon of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) with a little organic honey in 32 oz of water. Drink that as your drink during the day.

If it is dehydration then it might only take 2 to 3 days to correct. For the toxins just get some activated charcoal.

Sorry you had the flu, you sure didn't need that to derail your progress.

--------------------
Bob

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GiGi
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Heather, My husband fell - some years ago and was in rehab for a fractured back. Dr. K. visited him - made him walk a few steps and told the rehab doctor to have him tested for C. diff. It was positive. 2-3 weeks of Flagyl took care of it. No problem in years.

Any of the zeolites (Destroxin) work well for loose stool, etc.

Have AR teach you your own arm length testing. It's easy and you can often help yourself with more minor things. Of course, using common sense is very important at all times!

Be kind to yourself - and take good care.

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