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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Found cause of my stomach pain!!! Rutozym

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Author Topic: Found cause of my stomach pain!!! Rutozym
Lymetoo
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RUTOZYM. It's one of those systemic enzymes used for heart health and hypercoagulation. I was taking it instead of heparin.

I've been taking it for several YEARS and just figured out that is the cause of my stomach pain. [not the bile duct issue... but stomach pain]

It contains willow bark, which is what ASPIRIN is derived from!

NO WONDER I'm having gut problems!!! [shake]

Just giving a heads up to others in case you are taking this or another Wobenzyme product.

http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/economicbotany/Salix/

I think I may actually have an ulcer. Will see LLMD Tuesday.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94232 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bettyg
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tutu, uffda; so glad you found the culprit! and hope you get back to your old self again soo toots. [group hug] [kiss]


may i sugget you put the name of this med in subject line so folks do NOT overlook it since we get so MANY posts? [Smile]

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Geneal
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Aren't you just Sherlock Holmes??? [Big Grin]

I am glad you found the culprit for pain.

Aren't ulcers caused by a virus?

I hope you have a great visit tomorrow.

Tell your LLMD "Hi" and "Thanks" from all of the patients in Louisiana. [Smile]

Hugs,

Geneal

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Lymetoo
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Believe it or not, it took a lot of sleuthing! My bio-cranial dr was blaming my prescription meds... and it wasn't!

H.pylori causes ulcers, but not all ulcers. Aspirin and ibuprofen cause their share.

Will say hi to doc for you!

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94232 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
canefan17
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Lymetoo,

So what did you do to treat the ulcer or the inflamation?

i'm in a similar situation.

Either abx's or garlic have caused me some stomach swelling.

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Nutmeg
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Good job figuring that out! I hope the damage repairs itself quickly now that you've stopped taking it.

I actually believe that a lot of those systemic enzyme products and other supplements for inflammation and hypercoagulation that we take on an empty stomach can cause GI distress, gastritis, and erode the esophagus and stomach lining.

I had some trouble when I took high doses of curcumin. Now I've started to notice some burning/discomfort when I take the first few bites of a meal or snack. I take a LOT of enzymes and stuff, trying to knock back the very high CRP levels.

Hard to say what's worse--the systemic inflammation/hypercoagulation or the stomach distress from taking the remedy.

Take care,
Nutmeg

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Lymetoo
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Wow... that was 2 yrs ago!

I was finally put on Nexium instead of wimpy Prilosec. That did the trick.

However, I've been taking a baby aspirin everyday now for a year and a half due to my A-fib. For the past 2 months, it's been taking a toll on my stomach.

I'm trying to stick it out since my heart is more important than my stomach...???

I'm still on Nexium. Does anyone know if another med would be any better?

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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rks
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I've had GI issues for quite a few years, but LLMD (just recently started seeing) put me on L-Glutamine along with probiotics and tells me to eat something when I take my antibiotics.

After a couple months, I have started to notice a difference.

Here is something I found on it and there is much more if you do a google search on "L-glutamine benefits".

MAINTAINS HEALTH /FUNCTIONING OF THE LINING OF THE GUT

Glutamine increases the growth & absorptive capacity & is the main fuel source for the cells lining the intestinal tract. It is critical for the maintenance of proper gut metabolism, structure & function. The cells lining the small intestines consume Glutamine at a voracious rate, using up to 30% of the circulatory pool. Glutamine deficiency results in hypoplasia of the intestinal absorptive lining & dysfunction of the intestinal immune system. It helps maintain normal Secretory IgA an immune substance in the gut.

Studies show that Glutamine helps promote healing of impaired gut mucosa , such as with ulcers, ulcerative colitis, & Crohn's Disease. It enhances bowel function when there has been partial removal of the intestines & improves overall survival in gut originated severe infection.

Certain bacteria, fungi, & parasites can also impair the intestinal lining disrupting the optimal intestinal barrier functioning, & causing increased intestinal permeability ( the leaky gut syndrome). With increased permeability there can be increased allergy reactions to foods, & increased predisposition to autoimmune problems.

Also, the bacteria which live in the GI tract can cross the disrupted mucosal barrier to infect other organs in a process called bacterial translocation, so Glutamine can help prevent this serious process.

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canefan17
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thanks rks

I take a product called glutagenics every morning before breakfast


Do you know if it's better to take glutamine with or without meals?

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rks
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I was told to take it with meals.

The brand name was Pure Encapsulation and it was L-glutamine in powder form. I would take one scoop in the morning and one scoop in the evening.

I believe it says you can take up to four or six scoops a day, but can't remember now. I just took mine with a little bit of water.

It last quite a long time as the scoops are not huge and it's not too expensive.

If you're having really bad problems you might want to start with one scoop, then push it up to two scoops two times a day.

I'm not a doctor, but I can say it seems to be helping me. After the container was finished, I stopped taking it and wasn't told to continue.

But, if my stomach starts up again, I will start taking again.

Hope you are feeling better soon.

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Lymetoo
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I thought L-glutamine was to be taken between meals?? I used to take it but finally gave it up since I couldn't tell any difference.

Maybe it was helping the mucosal lining though.. I don't know.

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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lyme in Putnam
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Don't know much about this, but glad you are feeling better.

--------------------
He took u to it, He'll you through

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elley0531
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yikes didn't know that the enzyome products could have that effect on the stomach.

I've never used willowbark personally but have used bromelain in the past.

One thing that is soothing is slippery elm tea but you have to take it an hour or two away from meals. It coats the stomach and intestines.

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Keebler
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L-Glutamine can help with the stomach lining but be careful if anxiety or central nervous system irritation occur. Anyone with a seizure disorder should avoid this (as as sole supplement), unless in small amounts as part of a balanced formula.

Glutamine can convert to glutamic acid in the brain and that can create further toxicity & irritation to brain/nerve cells for those with neurological illness and a compromised blood brain barrier (as with lyme):
-------------

www.itmonline.org/arts/glutamine.htm

AMINO ACID SUPPLEMENTS I: GLUTAMINE - with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate

-by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.

Excerpt, half way down the article:

. . . Glutamate in Neurological Diseases

The other concern about glutamate is related to its essential role as a neurotransmitter. The levels of glutamate in the central nervous system (brain and spinal cord) are highly regulated, since the neurons have sensitive receptors for the compound.

* In some neurological diseases, it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology. This can occur, for example, if the rate of degradation of glutamate is slowed by an impairment of the enzymes that are involved.

* Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS.

* Glutamate levels in the central nervous system can also increase when the blood brain barrier is substantially weakened, as occurs after neurological surgery.

* The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; at high enough levels, the nerves exposed to glutamate can be completely and permanently damaged, so that they are no longer capable of transmitting signals.

* Thus, while glutamate is a major component of the body, and an essential part of the nervous system, high levels localized in the nerve cells can be quite toxic, and this is readily demonstrated in animal models.

* Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.

* In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).

Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20).

* One of the means by which a stroke (causing blockage of blood circulation to the brain) results in brain damage is through an increase in glutamate levels in the brain cells (of course, oxygen deprivation and other effects are also contributors). These findings point to local glutamate excess as an important factor in brain diseases.

* Since glutamine is converted to glutamate, supplementing glutamine at very high levels in persons who have such neurological disorders may be contraindicated.

. . . . - Full article at link above.
-

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Keebler
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If someone has a reaction to L-Glutamine, this is of interest as it addresses glutamate neurotoxicity:
----------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12602515

Metab Brain Dis. 2002 Dec;17(4):389-97.

Prevention of ammonia and glutamate neurotoxicity by carnitine: molecular mechanisms.

Llansola M,
Erceg S,
Hernandez-Viadel M,
Felipo V.

Laboratory of Neurobiology, Instituto de Investigaciones Citologicas, FVIB, Valencia, Spain.

Carnitine has beneficial effects in different pathologies and prevents acute ammonia toxicity (ammonia-induced death of animals).

Acute ammonia toxicity is mediated by excessive activation of the NMDA-type of glutamate receptors, which mediates glutamate neurotoxicity.

We showed that carnitine prevents glutamate neurotoxicity in primary cultures of cerebellar neurons. This supports the idea that the protective effect of carnitine against ammonia toxicity is due to the protective effect against glutamate neurotoxicity.

We are studying the mechanism by which carnitine protects against glutamate neurotoxicity. Carnitine increases the binding affinity of glutamate for metabotropic glutamate receptors. The protective effect of carnitine is lost if metabotropic glutamate receptors are blocked with specific antagonists.

Moreover, activation of metabotropic glutamate receptors by specific agonists also prevents glutamate neurotoxicity. This indicates that the protective effect of carnitine against glutamate neurotoxicity is mediated by activation of metabotropic glutamate receptors. The molecule of carnitine has a trimethylamine group.

Different compounds containing a trimethylamine group (carbachol, betaine, etc.) also prevent ammonia-induced animal death and glutamate-induced neuronal death.

Moreover, metabotropic glutamate receptor antagonists also prevent the protective effect of most of these compounds. We summarize here some studies aimed to identify the mechanism and the molecular target that are responsible for the protective effect of carnitine against ammonia and glutamate neurotoxicity.

Finally it is also shown that carnitine inhibits the hydrolysis of inositol phospholipids induced by activation of different types of metabotropic receptors, but this effect seems not responsible for its protective effects.

PMID: 12602515 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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pingpong
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Check literature on 'Rutin' regarding ulcers, and/or bleeding.

--------------------
pingpong

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Lymetoo
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WOW! I'm going to try that!!

found this:

http://www.vitacost.com/Country-Life-Rutin

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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I'd never heard of it, directly but have heard of Quercetin. Just for start, here's an annotated bibliography for RUTIN:

http://www.raysahelian.com/rutin.html

Excerpt:

Rutin (Quercetin rutinoside):

Quercetin and rutin are used in many countries as medications for blood vessel protection and are ingredients of numerous multivitamin preparations and herbal remedies. Rutin is also called rutoside. . . .

. . . Rutin is found in buckwheat seed, fruits and fruit rinds, especially citrus fruits (orange, grapefruit, lemon, lime) and berries such as mulberry. . . .
-

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