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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Oral magnesium bad???

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Author Topic: Oral magnesium bad???
improver
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I saw someone else post about this but I don't know what the outcome was.

I was reading Dr K's 2008 lyme treatment guidelines and he mentions that oral mag feeds spirochetes??

Should we stop taking mag?

I just started again since my heart palps are coming back quite a bit.

Let me know what you think.

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gemofnj
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improver,

i started taking mag last month because i thought i was low in magnesium. i reached about 400 mg a day..

and the same happened to me and i stopped taking it just last week. i think i have a mild case of bart tho, and just started rifampin and cats claw for it.

i dont think its 'bad' but i think each person is different, especially if they have different coinfections.

Posts: 1123 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wimenin
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Wrong. Don't stop taking magnesium. If anything, take more. Most lymies are low in magnesium because lyme feeds on magnesium. Because of that, your body becomes low in magnesium, and its necessary to supplement your body. You cant starve the lyme by not taking magnesium as thats not good for you. Increasing your magnesium will help with headaches, shakes, twitches, etc...and because it feeds the lyme, makes it more active, which makes killing it with antibiotics more efficient, and its activity makes your bodys immune system easier to recognize it and fight it.

Dont reduce your magnesium...increase it....

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tdtid
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My first LLMD had me taking oral Magnesium (Ionic Fizz) since he said that it also helps with the pain that many Lyme patients get.

I also was doing Myer's Cocktails (IV vitamin and minerals) and I know those also are high in magnesium.

My second LLMD also must believe there is something to magnesium since I have a port-a-cath and he has me doing an supplement high in Vitamin C, magnesium and other things.

Obviously I don't know the right answer, but if you trust your LLMD, I would go the path that he/she feels is best for your particular case.

I'm starting to find the "fix" for this illness is a crap shoot and what works for one, won't for another.

Good luck in your search.

Cathy

--------------------
"To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha

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Keebler
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You cannot starve the spirochetes without first starving the cells of your own body.

Magnesium is REQUIRED by our cells. I need my cells to keep me alive.

I will continue to take magnesium as it works extremely well for me. It is the best anti-seizure method I've found.


Shots are VERY painful (although B-12 helps with that) . . . IV's are just way too expensive for most people.

Epson salt warm baths may be good, but orally, magnesium is a mineral and part of the food supply.

The effects from depleted magnesium are so dangerous. I like magnesium glycinate. With B-6.


-

[ 10. November 2008, 01:01 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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gemofnj
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I think your advice is well taken, but I was wondering why the magnesium seems to make our symptoms worse or increase?

And is that a good thing?? Because its really weird!

[Smile]

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Keebler
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Sorry, I don't know. Are you also taking B-6 with it? That is essential for it to be absorbed.


For me, magnesium only makes me feel better. It improves so many symptoms (hyperacusis, pain, seizures, sleep, mood, TMJ, etc.). I've been off of it for a while as a test (and to see where I can cut costs). Clearly, my body is screaming to get back on the magnesium track.


Maybe a different type will help you.

--

Perhaps, if stomach upset occurs, a gruel of SLIPPERY ELM will soothe the lining of your tummy.

See: http://oneearthherbs.squarespace.com/important-herbs/slippery-elm-inner-bark-ulmus-rubra.html

--


On page two, #6, see Dr. B's suggestion of a specific form of magnesium:


http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf

Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease.

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD

July, 2008

Four pages


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[ 10. November 2008, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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There may be some nice clues in this recent post - this note from Carol in PA:

. . .

Every cell of your body uses magnesium for enzyme processes.
A deficit is going to cause all kinds of problems.


http://www.mbschachter.com/importance_of_magnesium_to_human.html


The Importance of Magnesium to Human Nutrition - by Michael B. Schachter M.D.

--


http://www.ctds.info/5_13_magnesium.html


Common Conditions That May Result from Low Magnesium Levels


=====================


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Hypomagnesemia -1605 abstracts


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sparkle7
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Many doctors come up with contradictory advice about what to do for illness. If we knew how or why Dr. K came up with this advice not to take oral Magnesium - I could see a point to it.

I'm no scientist - but I'm a bit suspicious of it.

Many doctors have good advice to offer. Some of it helps & some of it doesn't. I just don't see that it's practical for everyone to run out & get IV magnesium & stop taking pills or using Ionic Fizz.

Seems that magnesium helps people - in whatever the form.

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pingpong
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FWIW, Here's some of my notes on Magnesium:

Forms of magnesium:

Below is a list of "forgotten" nutrient compounds, and can be found at:
http://www.laleva.cc/supplements/forgotten_substances.html


Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate
Magnesium Arginate
Magnesium Ascorbate
Magnesium Aspartate
Magnesium Bisglycinate
Magnesium Butyrate
Magnesium Caprylate
Magnesium Chloride-Fumarate
Magnesium Citrate
Magnesium Citrate-Malate
Magnesium Cysteinate
Magnesium Ethanolamine Phosphate
Magnesium Fumurate
Magnesium Gallate
Magnesium Glutamate
Magnesium Glycinate
Magnesium Ketoglutarate
Magnesium Lactate
Magnesium Lysinate
Magnesium Malate
Magnesium Methionate
***Magnesium Niacinate
Magnesium Orotate
Magnesium Pantothenate
Magnesium Phosphate
Magnesium Phosphoserine
Magnesium Pyruvate
Magnesium Salicylate
Magnesium Succinate
Magnesium Tartrate
Magnesium Taurate
Magnesium Yeast

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

fwiw,some information on magnesium :

Forms of magnesium, followed by percentage of magnesium as it occurs in a given form.
from teh Merck Index

NOTE: ``---`` preceding the form of magnesium = magnesium, and not the dashed line afterthe form of magnesium followed by the percentage of magnesium.

---peroxide---43.17
---oxide---60.30
---hydroxide---41.68
---phosphate dibasic ---20.21
--- `` tribasic---27.74
---pyrophosphate---21.84
---salicycylate---8.14
---acetylsalicylate---6.35
---sulfate---20.19
---thiosulfate---17.81
---citrate---16.16
---mandelate---7.44
---lactate---12.01
---acetate---17.07
---benzoic acid---9.12
---chloride---25.53

[ 12. November 2008, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: pingpong ]

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pingpong

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Marnie
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I HIGHLY doubt Bb wants Mg because Mg INACTIVATES HMG CoA reductase and halts the cholesterol pathway which IS one of the pathways Bb takes.

This is why very high doses of arb drugs can help.

Bb has lipo proteins in its outer cell wall much like our own cholesterol...too much so.

Getting Mg back into the cell is a huge problem. HUGE.

Bb is impacting a channel and a kinase.

Bb has a PKC INHIBITOR...protein KINASE C.

Channels are how our electrolytes (like K, Na, Ca, Mg) go in and out of our cells.

Kinases transfer phosphate groups.

It looks like Bb is impacting this channel-kinase:

TRPM7/CatK1.

I think the WFL makes the G protein, transducin, which impacts that channel...closes the door, so to speak.

We absorb too little Mg via the oral route.

In a jam, we can use our skin as we DO absorb (and get rid of toxins too) thru our skin.

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Keebler
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Marnie,

What are "arb" drugs? (As in your sentence: "This is why very high doses of arb drugs can help.")


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gemofnj
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I did a search on magnesium and alot that I have seen regarding magnesium are conflicts with bartonella as well.

Not sure it matters so I am going to add mag back in to my protocol. I just didnt want the bartonella to flourish, since I am nearing the end of my treatment.

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improver
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Thank you for the responses. I haven't stopped the Mg. But since I've been taking it again my head and neck pain are worse.

I must say that until now I have always heard Mg was a must for lymies and I would think it still is a must. In other words I agree with you folks.

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D Bergy
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I believe Mg is critical for Lyme treatment. You need the immune system to work first and formost. Maybe Lyme feeds on it but the other effect from this is a lowered immune response.

D Bergy

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pryorka
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Well if taking oral magnesium isn't a good idea then just buy some DMSO cream and mix magnesium with it then rub it on yourself. You absorb more of it that way than you ever would taking it orally anyway. You could even rub it on the specific areas where you have pain.
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