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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Has anyone tried the high dose (15 caps/day) artemisinin pulse for babs treatment?

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Author Topic: Has anyone tried the high dose (15 caps/day) artemisinin pulse for babs treatment?
tickbattler
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My husband is about to start taking 5 caps of arteminin with meals 3 times per day for the next 5 days. Then he will wait two weeks and do the same thing again. (He is also taking levaquin and diflucan for bart and yeast.)

I am curious to hear if anyone has tried this high dose artemisinin protocol. I have read that this is the protocol that Dr. K uses to treat babs. It apparently is based on the Chinese approach to treat malaria.

I would love to hear how you tolerated this and whether it worked!

Thanks,

tickbattler

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tdtid
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I noticed no one was responded, so I'll write a quick one in hopes of bringing this back up to the top for the weekend crew to see.

Perhaps no one has responded since I think this sounds like a very high dose of art. I do know that it depends on brands since there are differences in them and some are more tolerable than others.

I do know that it can cause some major herxing and I was told to START SLOWLY.

I am using art at this time along with the mepron, IV zith and plaquinil, but only on four capsules in a whole day. Not sure if the doctor will raise my dose but that's where I started.

So not able to comment on the much higher doses. Maybe someone else can. Good luck.

Cathy

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pamoisondelune
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Artemisinin with meals? I thought it was for empty stomach? (not looking it up right now)

Definitely not with anti-oxidants--- and a meal with no anti-oxidants--- that's not good; empty stomach would be preferable for me.

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cactus
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I tried it, but only lasted 2 days. The herx was out of this world, and I could not keep it up.

To be fair, I lack the pathway necessary to metabolize artemisinin, so my experience was not typical - and all the symptoms were more than just a herx.

Hopefully someone who better tolerates art will come along with more experience soon.

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Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again? - A.A. Milne

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jamescase20
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I believe Dr S book says to ramp up rapidly to 3G a day, and I did just that. It appeared to me the high doses where needed to have an effect, but that was just my impressions. I do understand taking that high a dose for long term may not be so safe. I also found using pure wormwood (along with the other poisons in it) was more effective (or it appeared to be under the scope) in actually killing lyme hatchlings, but the pure wormwood is more toxic.
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Keebler
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-

I don't know if the other two meds also have any anti-protozoa activity but artmisinin requires a combined treatment to help prevent resistance.


And, as Cactus mentions, art requires the Cytochrome P-450 pathway to be in tip top shape. Diflucan also pushes this pathway. So, liver support will really help.


I have some forms of porphyria so could never attempt such a high dose.

I hope you can find precise guidelines from several good researchers about this. But, I assume from all that your husband is taking that this is advice from a LLMD, so there should be research behind that doctor's advice.


Still, at such an increased dose, the stress on the liver can be counter-productive, even dangerous without certain precautions.


At the very least, it's good eat every few hours so that the body has enough natural glucose to avoid cell death, in case excess porphyrins might be a factor.

Beta carotene (not synthetic Vit. A, though) can help keep the resultant porphyrin levels down.

Liver support and protection is an absolute must as are other methods for moving the toxins out. LOTS of veggies will help.

Smilax (sarsaparilla) may also be of help to move out some of the toxins.


--

More about the importance of the C P-450 liver pathway - and what can help if that is stressed:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=071168


Topic: PORPHYRIA LINKS - Re: Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway


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[ 02-14-2009, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Neil M Martin
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My ND suggested Hepalin 50mg 1x day for a month, followed by 100mg one a day. After about 6 months my Babesia symptoms cleared.

Google Hepalin. Another brand gave bad reaction. I don't think high doses are necessary. NM

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psano2
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Neil,

Your success w/Hepalin has peaked my interest. How long have you been off of Hepalin now? I googled it an see that it comes as a 100mg capsule and another with astralagus. Which one did you take?

Thanks,
Patti

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tickbattler
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Here is an update:

My husband started the heavy dose of art (1500 mg/day) yesterday and it is the first time he herxed on it. In the past, 3 caps per day did nothing.

He has chills, increased headache, dizzyness, increased sunlight sensitivity, and increased fatigue.

I am hoping this will do the trick for him. I'm thinking it is a good sign that he finally has had a herx. He was on Mepron/zith for several months and he never herxed like this.

tickbattler

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landerss
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Hey Tickbattler,
I'm bringing this back up - am wondering how your husband is doing on the high-dose artemisinin pulse several weeks later? I'm considering giving it a try myself...
Lynne

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tickbattler
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Hi Lynne,

He is doing better than during that first pulse but it is too early to determine...the first week was rough because he started high dose Levaquin (750 mg) at the same time and was herxing (insomnia, head buzzing and increased headaches) from that too.

The pulse of artemisinin was 1500/day for 5 days. He is taking 2 weeks off and then starts the second pulse (same dosage) on Wednesday of this week.

His headaches are somewhat better since he started this protocol, but I attribute that to his levaquin treatment, because it has helped his headaches in the past. However, he was never on it long enough to get rid of the bart (or BLO).

I'm hoping we may see a change after the second pulse of the artemisinin. It will be useful to see what symptoms (if any) emerge during the second pulse so that we can determine exactly what the art is affecting.

I also plan to research clindamycin, rizols and cryptolepsis as possible things to add to really attack the babs. He can't take Mepron while on the levaquin, so I'm looking for other options.

Hope this helps!

tickbattler

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beths
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hepalin is Artemisinin!
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landerss
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Thanks for the update, Tickbattler - keep us posted!
Lynne

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VB
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Tickbattler,

Just wanted to bump this up to see how you husband was doing on this dose of artemisinin?

Thank you!
VB

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tickbattler
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Hi VB,

He ended up doing 3 pulses every 2 weeks. He has not noticed much of a difference. He seemed to tolerate it OK, but the first and second day of each pulse was harder than the rest of the days. Also, it seemed that the third pulse was a little easier to tolerate than the first. So, perhaps it did something.

We ended up switching LLMD's just last week so he is going to try good old malarone and Dr. Z's artemesia (at regular doses 300 mg/day).

Sorry we can't be of much help on this one.

tickbattler

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