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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Petri Dish Culture from Eustachian Tube?

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Author Topic: Petri Dish Culture from Eustachian Tube?
Terminator
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A few years ago I caught an infection that I believe was mostly active inside my Eustachian tube. It was putting a lot of pressure on my eardrum.

Since I still regularly feel pain in that area, I would like to get a culture from my eustachian tube. Is this doable?

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Keebler
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Is this doable?

[editing to adjust my initial thought] From the top down, not without surgery. Find the HAIN clinic links here for more detail:

============================

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS
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[ 09-21-2010, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Terminator
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Are you sure there are no device that can be inserted down the throat to reach the openings of the tubes to get some bugs?

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Keebler
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Well, come to think of it, it may be worth another look. I had been thinking from the top down rather than collecting at the end of the road.

Links in that thread will answer your question. See the Hain Clinic links.

Now, I'm not a doctor but I've studied a lot about ears out of necessity. Although a skilled ENT may be able to squeeze some juice out of the back of your throat, that may not be coming only from the ears. So, a throat swab may be enough on its own an d not have to mess around with the eustachian tubes. If they get scarred in any way, it's not a good thing.

I would say IF you have a really good doctor with excellent skill, you might consider asking but it can be risky if there is any movement on your part or his/her part.

If one tries this, I would sure want to send the sample to the very best diagnostic labs, maybe FRY or Conglen (sp?). I would never trust a regular lab to assess this.

You might also get tested for XMRV. Some of these tests do not need to poke and prod deep into your throat, though.

Still, ANY Infection can put pressure on the ears. So can allergies. Exposure to heavy metals and other pollutants, too.

Lyme and other Tick-Borne infections are notorious for affecting the ears. So is liver stress. The liver actually has a lot to do with ear pressure. Lymph tissue constriction, as well.

There is a lab at the University of California, San Diego that did some special testing for me many years ago. You might search them out. I think it was their audiology department. But they may not be skilled enough to assess for all stealth infections.

They dx inner ear autoimmune disease from a blood test. At that same time, though, Igenex tests were positive for 3 tick-borne infections, so all bets are off with what my immune system was doing.

What has helped me the most: andrographis and ginger capsules.

I hope you get the answers you seek. Good luck.
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[ 09-21-2010, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=069911#000000

TIMACA #6911 posted 03 August, 2008

I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests.

- at link.
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Terminator
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Hain clinic link.. do you mean this? http://www.tchain.com/otoneurology/disorders/bilat/ototoxins.html

Here is what I have in mind, hoping some pus is draining from my tubes and maybe inserting a tiny brush if no pus is draining..

http://www.doctorhoffman.com/wwgreen.htm
quote:
I obtain (using sterile technique) a sample of the pus draining from the ventilation tube. I send this to a microbiology lab, and they culture the pus (grow it on petri dishes) and test a variety of antibiotics against the bacteria that grow on the petri dishes. The lab will then tell me what bacterial species are causing the infection, and what antibiotics are effective against these species. My next step is to find two different antibiotic ear drops that are effective, and treat the child with BOTH drops.


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Keebler
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Thanks for finding that.

It can be a start and you'd do well to find out what labs he uses and what infections they look for . . .

but, you know, with lyme, I'd want your LLMD to guide you with this and work with a speciality lab whose technicians are all trained to assess a variety of stealth infections.

Most labs are not. Most technicians have never even seen some of the tick-borne and other stealth infections that lyme patients have.

What are their eyes trained to identify?

How powerful are the microscopes they use? Not all are equal.

And, since you are here, I assume you have lyme. You'd still have to deal with lyme and other coinfections that may be present.

You can clink on that doctor's name at the bottom of the page and send an email if that is still current. You may also search his name and see what all he's written in the area of infections.

Also to consider, he says he would use antibiotic ear drops. Abx ear drops are often ototoxic and they do not address the inner ear at all.

Be sure to read Bauman book: "Ototoxic Drugs" for more detail.

For drops, garlic ear drops are very good but, again, will not affect inner or middle ear infections with full force.

===============

http://www.doctorhoffman.com/index.htm

Hoffman's main page
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Terminator
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In the full text version of http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199904293401708

"the patient was returned to a negative-pressure isolation room in order to obtain specimens of the discharge from the eustachian tube for smears and cultures. ... The middle-ear specimen that was positive for acid-fast bacilli on special histologic staining was negative on culture."

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Keebler
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* http://www.clongen.com/

Clongen Laboratories, LLC

* http://www.focusdx.com/focus/0-home/index.asp

Focus Diagnostics, Inc.

* http://www.frylabs.com/

Fry Labs

* http://igenex.com/Website/

Igenex Reference Laboratory

* www.labcorp.com

Labcorp (Laboratory Corporation of America)

===============================

Remember, most labs are not able to do all tests.

Timaca posted at another thread:

Labcorp does a good job of testing for enterovirus, and it's easier to get tested at than Focus (unless your doctor has an account at Focus).

The code numbers are: 096263 for Coxsackie B virus antibodies and 827662 for Echovirus Antibodies. (These are enteroviruses).

=======================

In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=069911#000000

TIMACA #6911 posted 03 August, 2008

I would encourage EVERY person who has received a lyme diagnosis to get the following tests.

- at link.
-

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Keebler
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In addition to going scent-free - and a diet free of: gluten; dairy; corn; & soy - OLE may be very helpful, especially the nasal spray and ear drops.
----------------

Olive Leaf Extract (OLE)
--------------------------

http://www.truthaboutlymedisease.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=638

OLE and Lyme Disease

=======================

www.amazon.com/Olive-Leaf-Extract-Morton-Walker/dp/1575662264/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265402342&sr=1-1

Book: Olive Leaf Extract - by Dr. Morton Walker

=======================

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

PubMed Search:

Olive Leaf Extract - 81 abstracts

==============

http://www.cogito.org/Articles/ArticleDetail.aspx?ContentID=15951

Biofilm . . . Terminalia chebula . . .

--------------
An Olive Leaf formula (that contains Terminalia chebula):

My ND (naturopathic doctor) recommended MYROLEA B. Most naturopathic doctors and acupuncturists know about the Seven Forest formulas. As this is a combination formula, there are ingredients included to help the body with "clearing heat" and metabolizing toxins.

==================

http://www.acuatlanta.net/myroleab-tablets-p-22018.html

Manufacturer: White Tiger

Name: Myrolea-B

Myrolea-B is also known as: Olive leaf extract with Chinese herbs

==================

http://chineseherbs.net/article_info-articles_id-2.html

===================

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/flu.htm

Myrolea-B (White Tiger) is a simple formulation of highly concentrated extracts from four Chinese herbs and one Western herb.

The Chinese herbs include forsythia and lonicera, two of the key ingredients of Ilex 15 (and the main antiviral ingredients of Yin Qiao Jie Du Pian), thus boosting the dosage of these essential ingredients.

Myrolea-B also contains the antiviral agents scute (huangqin) and terminalia (hezi). The Western herb in this formulation is olive leaf, which is one of the primary anti-viral herbs derived from the European tradition.

=================

A history of this formula:

http://www.itmonline.org/arts/shuang.htm

SHUANGHUANGLIAN: Potent Anti-Infection Combination of Lonicera, Forsythia, and Scute - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D., Director, Institute for Traditional Medicine - 2003

Shuanghuanglian (SHL for short) is a modern formula that was devised in the 1960s to treat a variety of infections. It is comprised of the alcohol-water extracts of three herbs: lonicera (shuanghua, often called jinyinhua), scute (huangqin), and forsythia (lianqiao). . . .

. . . One of the early preparations of the SHL was a tablet made of equal proportions of the extracts of each herb. This was used to treat leptospirosis, a disorder caused by a spirochete bacteria, related to the organism that causes Lyme disease.

Leptospirosis causes initial symptoms of fever and chills, headache, and muscle ache (especially in the shoulders); these are consistent with "flu-like" symptoms described for the onset of many acute infections.

In a 1971 report, the formula was described as being made in 500 mg tablets derived from 3.7 grams of the crude herbs, and being administered in doses of 10-15 tablets (thus, equivalent to the extract of 37-55 grams of herbs) every 6 hours (1), a very high dosage.

. . . Recently, Shuanghuanglian has been applied successfully to treatment of Coxsackie B3,

. . . The general indications for SHL . . . are "relieving the exterior syndrome, clearing away heat and toxic material," and its indications are "treatment of fever, cough, and sore throat that arise from wind-heat syndrome."

It is said to have "a good action in treating upper respiratory tract infection, tonsillitis, laryngopharyngitis, pneumonia, acute enteritis, viral dysentery, etc., when caused by virus or bacterial infection."

- full article at link above.

===================

Detail from two of the most reputable sources of OLE:

www.olivus.com/cautions_olive_leaf.htm

OLIVUS Olive Leaf Extract

Excerpt:

Die-off effects -- Olive leaf use causes the death of microbes. The liver, kidneys, intestines and skin are therefore tested to their limits, to deal with, and remove them. This causes Herxheimers Reaction, which can have a variety of symptoms, but basically makes one feel ill or under the weather due to a treatment's effect upon the body.

Thus, "die-off," referred to in medicine as the "HERXHEIMER reaction," occurs when the olive leaf components kills large numbers of harmful germs rather quickly. Then, the patient's membranes absorb toxic products from these dead microorganisms. . . .

See details at link for:

* Safety Precautions and * Known Drug Interactions

==================

NASAL SPRAY and EAR DROPS:

http://www.seagateproducts.com/olive-leaf-extract.html

SEAGATE Olive Leaf Extract - also see their menu for all their OLE products, including nasal spray, ear drops & a personal spray, etc.

Excerpt:

Side Effects:

Olive leaves have been used safely for thousands of years. The only known side-effect is the possibility of a HERXHEIMER reaction, an allergic response caused by the rapid die-off of fungi that release toxins which may temporarily cause a brief allergic reaction, lasting for several days.

============================

http://www.prohealthsolutions.com/productdetails28.html

Olive Leaf Extract

Excerpt:

. . . Are there any contraindications with Olive Leaf Extract?

No contraindications with other drugs have been observed.

** However, Olive Leaf Extract should not be taken with antibiotics produced from yeast / fungus or along with additional amino acids other than those received in your everyday foods. They might cross out each other's effectiveness. . . .

- Full article at link above.
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Terminator
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keebler, what are you talking about? I don't want to sound rude but I'm trying to talk about doing a culture from my eustachian tubes.

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Keebler
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* A diet free of phlegm-producing foods can lessen pressure.

* Any test is only as good as the lab testing it. They have to order specific tests. Lab techs have to be trained to do certain tests. Not all are equal. The lab links are some labs that do specialty testing.

* OLE, the nasal spray and ear drops can help cover a variety of infections that would not even show up in some tests. OLE has helped my ears tremendously. So has andrographis.

There may never be a way to test for all possible infections. If you can find something that helps, you may save money with specialty tests.
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Terminator
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I understand, but I dont think the labs you mentionned will perform the culture I'm looking for.

OLE is supposed to be a good antiviral, IIRC. In the paper I posted above they say that chronic viral infection in the middle ear is much less common than bacterial and fungal. But maybe I'll still give it a try.

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