Within the last month or so, I have been falling down. I can be walking with my can and down I go. For those with walking difficulty, has this ever happened to you, if so, what has made it stop.I don't think my one knee that I end up falling down on can take more falling. Thanks! Posts: 90 | From NC USA | Registered: May 2002
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Sorry, to hear this.
I had this happen up to 20 times a day before I was dx with lyme - and inner ear disorders which may or may not - in whole or part - be lyme related.
I assume since you are here that you have lyme &/or other tick-borne disease (TBD)?
If you are wondering whether you have it or not, see an LLMD that follow the ILADS guidelines ( www.ilads.org ).
ARE YOU BEING TREATED FOR LYME/ TBD ??
If you have been dx, first ask your LLMD about this. It happens to many patients and can have many different causes or triggers - but if caused by an underlying infection, the best plan is to treat the infection and back it up with symptom relief.
Ask your LLMD if s/he thinks you should consult a vestibular specialist - a doctor who deals solely with inner ear/ middle ear stuff.
A neurotologist would be best, but one your LLMD recommends. Some ENT's are excellent, too. They will check the inner ear function and to see if there is any nystagmus (spasms of the eyes).
You might ask for a CT scan or an MRI (note: MRI's are very loud, so be sure to wear ear plugs). A brain scan may be in order.
An EKG, or other tests, can be sure your heart beat is in synch. You might want to check the medicines you take and see if any side-effects are elongated QT - or long QT - that could slow down a heart beat, but not necessarily in perfect measure.
A routine blood test can consider anemia, electrolytes, glucose, etc.
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Some of the things your doctor might want to rule /out:
or other circulation / nervous system dysfunction.
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In addition to figuring out the underlying cause and then the mechanism that is malfunctioning - in addition to treatment - training of the vestibular system may be very helpful.
Are you drinking enough water. A dehydrated brain can trip up the body.
And, oh, I assume you do not consume any aspartame/nutraswee/Equal (check all your labels). Also, MSG in any of it's names (you can google) can cause sort seizure-like drops.
Are there dyes in anything you eat ?
For me, staying gluten-free also helps decrease the falls. Gluten causes neuro symptoms in me - though not in everyone.
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BALANCE TRAINING ?
Qi Gong or yoga may be good help, but inner ear doctors send patients to physical therapists who can teach specific exercises for your eyes that help your balance.
However, I would not go to a PT who did not know about ILADS research, either. I have and they just don't know what to make of chronic neuro-lyme patients. It's beyond humiliating. And it's a waste of time and money.
Your LLMD may also be able to refer you to someone who is right for you for balance training - or for strength training.
Are you getting enough B-vitamins ? Enough protein ? Fish oil or Krill oil will help the brain function with all of this, too.
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If this may be short seizures - and that happens to many people - I'd advise NOT taking any seizure drug unless all other connections are cleared. And, then, only if your LLMD is involved in the treatment plan.
(Oooh, are you taking any sleeping pills ? They can have residual effects during the daytime.)
The reason I suggest avoiding sedatives is that, as you are falling, if this is a drop seizure, it means your brain waves are going into the sleep mode - a short catalepsy sort of event (but not necessary the dx of catalepsy).
Seizure drugs would intensify sleepiness as they calm down the brain - but that can be dangerous in someone experiencing falls.
If you are on sedatives, do not just stop though. Talk to your doctor.
There is an herb called Gotu Kola. It is not a kola and while it can help with alertness, it does not wire. It can help with calmness, but does not sedate. Gingko, too, might help.
Magnesium, too, can calm but not knock one out like a light. Magnesium/Calcium/Zinc also can help prevent seizure activity. Magnesium is the number one helper for me.
So, I would avoid anything that is sedating in nature. If you are interested in exploring natural medicines for this, you might ask your LLMD for a referral to a certified ND or L.Ac.
A naturopathic physician (N.D.) or an acupuncturist (L.Ac.) can also guide you in the used of nutritonal support that help with brain flow.
In addition, if you have any neck pain, you might ask for a referral to a doctor of osteopathy or a chiropractor who does GENTLE - GENTLE - cranial / sacral therapy.
There are many links here to patient care articles and publications. You will find some diagnostic stuff here, but also some with practical advice such as: toss out all your throw rugs; keep a night light on in each room, etc.
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Sorry if you are overwhelmed. I've tossed out a lot here . . . and it could still be something else.
I've written this so that you can copy and paste and use as a sort of check-list - if that helps. Sorry, I'm not organized just the way I'd like to be, though. It's all off the top of my head.
Any falls are serious, so I hope you find a quick, sure and safe answer. Hope your doctor can help.
Best of luck to you.
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(I am not a doctor - I just pass along what I've experienced in case it is of any help.)
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[ 21. June 2008, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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tailz
Unregistered
posted
I've had this happen on numerous occasions. I'd be walking along, and it seemed as if the power would suddenly go out of my one leg (left).
Usually I would catch myself and just look stupid, but this happened once when I was carrying two of my heaviest cats in a cat carrier on my way out of the vet's office, and instead of saving myself, I used my arms to protect and cushion my two cats on their way to the concrete.
I ended up leaving a visible trail of my knee's skin on his sidewalk, the wound was deep and ended up becoming infected, my knee scarred, and both cats eventually died of heart problems or clotting problems (they "threw a clot") - not from my falling with them, but from chronic exposure to electromagnetic and microwave fields (cell phone towers).
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bettyg
Unregistered
posted
have just a quick minute, but throwing this out for discussion.
tdtid
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10276
posted
Actually I use to have this happen but the part of it that would make me think I was losing my mind is that after I'd fall, my legs just plain wouldn't work and I couldn't get up.
But yet in a few hours, I would be back up like it never happened. Had been admitted in the hospital after one of these episodes since I had no reflexes in my legs, BUT by the time they admitted me and got me to the room, I could walk again, so I sure started thinking I was losing my mind.
I haven't had any of those episodes in a long time, but I've been on abx's for 19 months for lyme, bart and babs, so perhaps one of those kicked it out of there.
Not sure if this is the same thing that happens to you, but this was what was going on with me before my diagnosis.
Cathy
-------------------- "To Dream The Impossible Dream" Man of La Mancha Posts: 2638 | From New Hampshire | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Cathy, the way you describe it is part of what happened in my case, too. On and off. I even needed a wheelchair to get out of some appointments, but then after a long rest, I could walk again - until - poof - down all of the sudden.
I think some of this is the autonomic nervous system's response to lyme's toxin.
Inner ear fatigue, too, can come on suddenly. That can short-circuit all neuro functions, too.
lymeladyinNY
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 10235
posted
I used to fall down a lot before treatment for babesiosis. Since treatment this has been a far less frequent problem.
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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lymednva
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9098
posted
My legs haven't given out, with the exception of a couple of times when the muscles in my butt were so tight they affected my walking. Massage took care of it.
However, I fall all the time! In the past five years I have broken the same little toe twice, my little finger and now my shoulder, in three places!
Then when I last saw my orthopedist in follow-up he suggested I may have torn my rotator cuff in my fall that broke my shoulder, which is why I am having trouble with some of my PT.
The more I read the more I think he's right.
I have been treating for Babs for ten months now. I'm sure this is related to Babs, as it worsens when I am herxing. My main problem is balance.
-------------------- Lymednva Posts: 2407 | From over the river and through the woods | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Yes, this is a problem for me as well. Usually, I get really dizzy, heart rate increases, and I feel nauseous..and then, down I go!
My LLMD is positive it is Orthostatic Hypotension, so I try to pay attention to this. Walking with a cane/walker hasn't really helped, as I fall anyway..usually to the side.
Posts: 26 | From Ma. | Registered: Jul 2006
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posted
This sounds like a "drop attack" associated with Chiari Malformations. If you don't lose consciousness and just drop to the ground, it definitely sounds like a "drop attack." I have a Chiari Malformation (herniation of the cerebellum through the base of the skull), and it has literally shrunk with lyme treatment. It has gone from a 6.6 mm herniation prior to treatment to less that 5mm after IV treatment for 10 weeks.
My LLMD (Dr. J in SC) said Chiari is very common amoung his patients and that Lyme and co seem to attack the cerebellum and brain stem. Both areas of the brain play a significant role with coordination of muscles in activities like walking. Have you had an MRI to look for cerebellar ectopia or a full Chiari Malformation? Just a thought.
-------------------- Mountaingirl
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 138 | From West Virginia | Registered: Sep 2007
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posted
To all that responded, I do have lyme and have had it for over 18 yrs with 10 being misdiagnose as many here have been.
Then I tried hompathic/herbals and all it did was keep this at bay. Finally I bit the bullet and have been on antibiotics since 6-06.
I also see dr. j in sc but has not told me to get any further testing like the Chiari. Told me to call pt dr., which after 3 months and lots of $ did nothing for my walking or balance problems.
Posts: 90 | From NC USA | Registered: May 2002
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Mtgirl: Would you please copy your post and begin a new thread with something like "Chiari Malformation: Lyme Tx helped me"
This is very important and I'm so glad to see your post.
Also, to note, is that MRI imaging to evaluate Chiari has to be done a specific way.
If you have information about that, you can post other details at the new link.
Many patients with Chiari undergo surgery. I am thrilled to see that you have avoided that and are still seeing improvement.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Your doctor may have an idea if you have Chiari or not - and in either case, figure treatment should help. If he can't offer any advice on the falling, ask for his ideas on how else to proceed.
Another possibility is that if the sudden falls are at all a type of seizure, a herx reaction alone can do that.
Anyone, given enough toxins, can have a seizure.
You might look over your liver protection / detox plan and see if it needs adjusting. (Milk Thistle is especially good.)
Magnesium, again, at bowel tolerance, might be very helpful in many ways.
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MTGIRL:
Would you please copy your post and begin a new thread with something like "Chiari Malformation: Lyme Tx helped me"
This is very important and I'm so glad to see your post.
Also, to note, is that MRI imaging to evaluate Chiari has to be done a specific way.
If you have information about that, you can post other details at the new link.
Many patients with Chiari undergo surgery. I am thrilled to see that you have avoided that and are still seeing improvement.
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