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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Colloidal Silver Claims Challenged

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Author Topic: Colloidal Silver Claims Challenged
Tom Grier
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Since 1995 I have done four articles on Colloidal Silver and I hope that my next one discussing newer claims and chemistry about silver hydrosol will be the last.

I am posting an article I wrote for the Lyme Alliance in 1999.

What I did:

Since 1999 I personally tested over a dozen Colloidal silver preperations from over a dozen manufacturers ranging from 20 ppm to 1500 ppm.

In addition I went back and actually found and read the original articles listed as references used by these companies to promote their products. These articles went back as far as 1918, and I found that in almost every case these articles and references were usually misquoted, and misrepresented by today's modern manufacturers.

(See the 1936 Cosmopolitan article read into the Congressional record and later cited as a government study)

I tested the most common claim made by the sellers of colloidal silver:

CLAIM: That Colloidal Silver products kill 650 different pathogens.

Using the Kirby-Bauer method of bacterial sensitivity, I plated in two seperate studies over two dozen common pathogens on Nutrient agar, on slant tubes, or in thioglycolate broth.

I tested the CS products at Full Strength, and 1:10 and 1:100 dilutions. I tested against gram positive and gram negative bacteria, anaerobes and anaeorobic bacteria and against Candida albicans and trichophytan and mentagrophytes mold. (In each of the two experiments I used over 144 agar plates)

I tested against several forms of streptococcus, staphlococcus, and Klebsiella, pseudomonas, bacteroides, e-coli, haemophillus, clostridia difficile, C. perfringeens, and just about everything else that the lab had available in stock for common pathogens. I did not test Borrelia species as the lab was not equipped for this and did not stock BSK-II media.

I found across the board that at full strength no Colloidal Silver at any time ever had any significant inhibition of bacterial growth as compared to the control plates using antibiotic saturated paper disks.

Thinking that the nutrient agar might have soaked up the CS and inhibited the antisceptic effects of the CS; I transferred the cultures to nutrient broth and compared CS at full strength to normal tubes, and found no decrease in bacterial growth.

My Point: If the most import claim about CS isn't true and that in reality Colloidal Silvers are terrible anti-infective agents: Then are any of the claims that are made about colloidal silver by the sellers of these products true?

PS:

Silver salts are powerful antisceptics and can be irritating by their chemical activity, but suspended silver metal does not possess this antibacterial action that the powerful silver compounds like silver nitrate have. They do possess one similarity though and that is that the silver metal and silver ion both are absorbed by the body and poorly eliminated.

Also very recent claims that a slight negative charge by a single shared electron among silver atoms makes newer CS products more effective is ludicrous and the chemistry is ridiculous. Recent claims that a single electron shared for every 19 silver atoms orients hundreds of water molecules and acts as a solution is smoke and mirrors. Show it to a high school chemistry instructor and see what I mean!

Also the liver does not eliminate silver from the body unless the silver is coupled to an organic molecule or the silver is phagocytized by a white blood cell. The silver is absorbed by somatic body cells and stored in skin and other cells including in the liver.

Currently I am reading a Master's Thesis by a student doing her work on Colloidal Silver and have the work of a research pharmacist that corroborates my findings. My mind is made up about CS. Any positive effects are most likely due to wishful thinking and placebo effect. I have however seen first hand the negative effects of Colloidal Silver including Argyria.

The article which follows was written six years ago and I see little has changed from the sellers of these products. TG

==================================
Real Concerns About Colloidal Silver (2400 words)
By
Tom Grier

As with any chronic illness, when chronic Lyme patients don't get better with traditional medicines, many will turn to alternative treatments. One of the most popular alternative treatments that Lyme patients have turned to is colloidal silver.

In the strictest sense colloidal silver is simply a suspension of silver metal particles so small that the slightest agitations will keep the microscopic particles in suspension. But recently many products containing silver salts and silver ions have also been sold under the designation of ``colloidal silver''. Regardless of the accuracy of the label, any product containing silver in any form can potentially cause permanent side effects, and the claimed medical benefits touted for nearly a century as yet remain unproven.

One of the weaknesses of the human body is that it has very poor mechanisms for the elimination of most metals. Whether the metal is lead, mercury, silver or even iron our cells are not biologically equipped to scavenge these metals and efficiently ferry them out of our body. So the older we get, heavy metals including silver, tend to accumulate in our cells.

If a patient exceeds the amount of iron they need in their diet, iron will accumulate inside their cells and eventually cause cellular damage. Usually the accumulations will be in the heart and liver and if left untreated the condition will cause advanced heart disease and liver failure. This condition is called hemachromatosis. Although there is no cure for hemachromatosis, there is a fairly effective treatment. The patient must be bled weekly. The loss of blood depleats iron

Our only mechanism for eliminating iron in our body is through bleeding. The only consistent eliminination of iron from our bodies is menstration, and the natural sloughing of cells in our GI tract. This is why men have higher iron counts than menstruating woman.

Likewise when silver is taken into the body in any form, silver can and will accumulate in our cells. When the silver moves into our skin and forms organo-silver compounds, and silver salts, the condition is known as Argyria. Unfortunately Argyria is untreatable, unlike iron we cannot deplete silver stores by any known process including chelation!

The unseen problem with Argyria, is that once the process begins there is no stopping it. Unlike hemachromatosis which has a fairly effective treatment, there is no effective treatment for Argyria. Silver will continue to deposit in the skin for the rest of the patient's life.

In a patient with Argyria, even the silver contained in old-fashioned eye drops and nose drops will continue to accumulate in the skin. What is so insidious about the process is that there may be no warning signs or symptoms that this process is happening. Things can be fine until one day a patient goes out into the sun and notices that their skin is ever so slightly ashen colored where they received the most sun. This subtle change in skin color will worsen with time and with subsequent exposures to the sun.

Many silver compounds are photo-sensitive. This is why silver salts are used in black and white film emulsions. When photographic paper is exposed to light, the white paper begins to turn gray. If the process isn't stopped with powerful chemicals, the entire paper will turn black. This is caused by light energy hitting the silver-salt crystals and causing the silver metal to coalesce into metal deposits. Unfortunately the exact same process can happen in human skin, and the result can be bluish-gray splotches of skin!

What are the health benefits of Colloidal Silver?

The FDA as of September 16th, 1999 has ruled that most products sold as drugs containing silver will no longer be given safe and effective status. This means several currently available medicines including salves, ointments, crmes, and colloids containing silver salts and or silver metal will no longer be given drug status and must be withdrawn from market. The reason was simply that the FDA could not find enough proof that their health claims were true and that the products' benefits exceeded their risks. (See FDA reference)

This means any manufacturer of colloidal silver who makes any kind of medical claims for their products, are now subject to prosecution under the FDA federal guidelines of making unsubstantiated medical claims. If manufacturers want to make a medical claims for their products, and market it for a specific medical condition, the manufacturer must now submit a ``New Drug Application'' with the FDA, and prove both safety and efficacy of the product.

Silver containing product are still sold as food supplements, and as such fall under FTC guidelines of truth and accuracy in labeling, but no health claims are allowed under the current FDA or FTC laws. Any manufacturer including home marketed products can be held accountable if they make claims of treating any medical condition. (continued after FDA ruling on page 3)


FDA Ruling on Colloidal Silver Products

AGENCY: Food and Drug Administration, HHS.

ACTION: Final rule. http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/aces140.html#frbrowse
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

SUMMARY: The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) is issuing a final rule
establishing that all over-the-counter (OTC) drug products containing
colloidal silver ingredients or silver

[[Page 44654]]

salts for internal or external use are not generally recognized as safe
and effective and are misbranded. FDA is issuing this final rule
because many OTC drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients
or silver salts are being marketed for numerous serious disease
conditions and FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific evidence
that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or silver
salts for these disease conditions.

DATES: This regulation is effective September 16, 1999.


In the Federal Register of October 15, 1996 (61 FR 53685), FDA
published a proposed rule to declare that all OTC drug products
containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts are not
generally recognized as safe and effective, and are new drugs and
misbranded within the meaning of section 201(p) of the Federal Food,
Drug, and Cosmetic Act (the act) (21 U.S.C. 321(p)). Colloidal silver
is a suspension of silver particles in a colloidal base. In recent
years, colloidal silver preparations of unknown formulation have been
appearing in retail outlets. These products are labeled for numerous
disease conditions, many of which are serious diseases. The dosage form
of these colloidal silver products is usually oral, but product
labeling also contains directions for topical and, occasionally,
intravenous use.
FDA has not approved a new drug application (NDA) for any colloidal
silver product. None of the silver salts evaluated as part of FDA's OTC
drug review was found to be generally recognized as safe and effective
for its intended use(s). FDA is not aware of any substantial scientific
evidence that supports the use of OTC colloidal silver ingredients or
silver salts for disease conditions. The agency invited any interested
parties to collect and submit any existing data and information that
support the safety and effectiveness of colloidal silver ingredients or
silver salts for any of the uses not already evaluated under the OTC
drug review. Interested persons were invited to submit written comments
on the proposed regulation and on the agency's economic impact
determination by January 13, 1997.


(Story Continued from page 2)

What are the anecdotal claims of Colloidal Silver?

In over a dozen articles in the lay press touting the benefits of colloidal silver, the same claims are made over and over. Most repeat the same identical references, and most use the same explanations of action. Most of the claims made by colloidal silver manufacturers and distributors are similar to these claims that were made by the KAIRE Corporation which was a multi level sales organization that specialized in the sales of health supplements. This is an excerpt from their literature before they disbanded their sales organization.
Our colloidal silver contains 99.99% pure silver particles suspended indefinitely in demineralized water that kills bacteria and viruses. It can be applied topically and/or absorbed into the blood stream sub-lingually (under the tongue), thereby avoiding the negative effects of traditional antibiotics that kill good bacteria in the lower digestive tract.
An all natural antibiotic alternative in the purest form available. The presence of colloidal silver near a virus, fungi, bacterium or any other single celled pathogen disables its oxygen-metabolism enzyme, its chemical lung, so to say. The pathogens suffocates and dies, and is cleared out of the body by the immune, lymphatic and elimination systems.
Unlike pharmaceutical antibiotics which destroy beneficial enzymes, colloidal silver leaves these beneficial enzymes intact. Thus colloidal silver is absolutely safe for humans, reptiles, plants and all multi-celled living matter.
It is impossible for single-celled germs to mutate into silver-resistant forms, as happens with conventional antibiotics. Also, colloidal silver cannot interact or interfere with other medicines being taken. Colloidal silver is truly a safe, natural remedy for many of mankind's ills. Colloidal silver can be taken indefinitely because the body does not develop a tolerance to it
Now let me address some of these claims:
1) CLAIM: The claim of being 99.99 % pure might be true for some products, but not for those people making colloidal silver in their homes with a machine that claims to make colloidal minerals out of old jewelry. REALITY: When these home brewed preparations were tested more than 20 % were contaminated with other metals and bacteria. This machine can be purchased for under $100 and is found advertised in many magazines like ``Mother Earth News'' and in entrepreneurial mailings that have headlines like: ``Amazing New Medical Marvel Creates Antibiotics right from your own jewelry! Make Thousands of Dollars a Month!''
2) CLAIM: Sub-lingual absorption avoids any adverse GI tract effects. REALITY: Colloidal silver is an ineffective antiseptic and so no adverse reactions occur because not enough gut bacteria dies to cause any problems. No one has ever submitted any sub-lingual absorption data, and I talked directly to several manufacturers who made this claim including the president of KAIRE Bob Richards only to find that this was a completely unsupported statement.
3) CLAIM: Colloidal silver suffocates over 650 kinds of viruses, bacteria, mycoplasms, yeast and fungi by blocking the oxygen carrying enzyme systems. REALITY: Viruses don't even have enzyme systems! No such mechanism has ever been discovered, and it simply isn't true. I tested over a dozen colloidal silver preparations on over a dozen pathogens and found virtually zero effectiveness in killing any bacteria including anaerobes, gram-pos organisms, gram-neg organisms, Candida yeast, and GI tract e-coli bacteria. Colloidal silver at full strength had negligible effects on every bacteria and yeast tested.
Silver compounds like silver nitrate are caustic and do kill bacteria. In fact they actually burn the skin, but this is not the same as colloidal silver and most of these silver compounds are now restricted by the same 1999 FDA ruling that affects colloidal compounds. They have been withdrawn from market because their unproven benefits do not outweigh the risks.
4) CLAIM: Our colloidal silver won't accumulate in the skin because it has an ionic charge, or it is too small, or it is neutral or it is protected by mild silver protein. REALITY: All forms of silver accumulate in the human body, and any form of silver if absorbed will accumulate inside cells including the skin. In fact normal adults will continue to accumulate silver in their skin throughout their life from just eating a normal diet. (See reference to 70 cases of Argyria)
There are many people selling colloidal silver based on anecdotal claims of effectiveness. I won't discount these anecdotal claims except to say that they are unsubstantiated by any reputable research. The references used to support colloidal silver effectiveness are so repeatedly misquoted and misused that they often lack any resemblance to the original articles. I would urge anyone who wants to pursue colloidal silver therapy to go back and read the original articles and see how misquoted they are. Take for example a quote that is repeatedly used to support the idea that the government admits that our food supply is devoid of therapeutic levels of vitamins and minerals.
[Erosion and unwise farming methods] have led to mineral-depleted soils resulting in mineral-deficient plants, livestock, and people . . . . .the alarming fact is that food now being raised on millions of acres of land that no longer contain enough of certain minerals are starving us -- no matter how much of them we eat. No man of today can eat enough fruits and vegetables to supply his system with the minerals he requires for perfect health because his stomach isn't big enough to hold them. . . . Laboratory tests prove that the fruit, vegetables, grains, eggs, and even the milk and meats of today are not what they were a few generations ago. . . . It is bad news to learn from our leading authorities that 99% of the American people are deficient in these minerals [74th Congress, 2nd Session, 1936].
The cited quotation as taken from a promotional tape called ``Dead Doctors Don't Lie'' and it is a genuine quote from the 1936 Congressional session, but it did not as colloidal mineral promoters usually imply, arise from a government research study. In fact, it is merely a reprint of a baseless opinion piece that originally appeared in the June 1936 issue of Cosmopolitan magazine and was placed into the Congressional record by a Florida senator. A magazine article that was essentially an advertisement for vitamins was read into the record, and is now quoted as being a government study.
If you back far enough and dig hard enough, virtually all of the other references that are used to support colloidal silvers health benefits are eventually found to be without any sound scientific merit. Including the often referenced sensationalized article in the March 1978 ``Science Digest'' which was written like a science fiction story based on completely erroneous research.
Time and space prevent me from going on but I feel strongly that colloidal silver is at best worthless, and at worse capable of causing permanent skin discoloration. Before you believe the claims of the individuals selling these products, please read Rosemary Jacob's complete story on her experience with argyria and the battle that she has had in getting to the truth about colloidal silver and other silver containing nostrums.
If we are to learn anything from history it should be not to repeat our mistakes! In the 1930s many people believed what was written in magazines about popular cures and products, and profiteers used the people's willingness to believe to sell worthless and often dangerous products.
Today much of the medical misinformation being distributed, is being distributed on the Internet and by anecdotal personal testimonies being propagated by multi-level sales organizations. Unfortunately it is becoming harder and harder to separate junk science from credible research, but every major claim I have investigated about Colloidal Silver has been false and misleading. Colloidal Silver is not a very effective antibacterial agent, and it can turn your skin a permanent blotchy gray color. Any medical claims made by manufacturers is now subject to FDA investigations.
References:
Abdulla M and others. Trace element requirements, intake and recommendations. In Prasad AS, editor. Essential and Toxic Trace Elements in Human Health and Disease: An Update. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1993, pp 311-328.
Bryant BL: Argyria resulting from intranasal medication. Arch Otolaryngol
31:127-139,1940. p. 127-139
Harker JM, Hunter D: Occupational Argyria British J Derm & Syph Nov. 1935 p.442,445,446.
Collosols - British Colloids Limited, JAMA 78:674-675, March 4, 1922. p. 674-675. .
"Collosols": an uncritical English endorsement JAMA Oct. 18, 1919, p. 1218.
Colloidal minerals National Council Against Health Fraud Newsletter, Jan/Feb 1997.

FDA. Final rule: Over-the-counter drug products containing colloidal silver ingredients or silver salts. Federal Register 64:44653-44658, 1999
Federal Register 61:53685-53688, 1996
Fung MC, Bowen DL: Silver Products for Medicinal Indications: Risk - Benefit Assessment Clinical Toxicology, 34(l), 119-126(1996), p. 120.
Fung MC, Weintraub M, Bowen DL: Colloidal silver proteins marketed as health supplements (letter) JAMA 1995 Oct 18:274(15):1196-7.
Gaul LE, Staud AH: Seventy cases of generalized argyria following organic and colloidal silver medication, including biospectrometric analysis of ten cases.
AMA 104:1387-1390,1935.
Goodman LS, Gihnan A: The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 5th edition. New York: MacMillan, 1975:930-931, 999-1000.
Harker JM, Hunter D: Occupational Argyria British J Derm & Syphil Nov. 1935 p. 441-455.
Hartman Rj: Colloid Chemistry lst edition, Baltimore, Nhfflin, 1939, p. 536.
Hill VVR, Pillsbury DM: Argyria: The Pharmacology of Silver, Baltimore, Md. Williams & Wilkins Co, 1939. p. 26,85, 95,128-132
Hill WR, Montgomery H: Argyria Arch Derm Syphil 1941;44:588-99.
Levine SA, Smith JA: Argyria confused with heart disease. N Eng I Med
226:682-684,1942, p. 682.
Marshall CR, Killoh GB: The Bactericidal Action of Collosols of Silver & Mecury

Oehme FW, editor. Toxicity of Heavy Metals in the Environment, New York: Marcel Dekker, 1979.
Puckner WA: Collosol preparations Report of the Council on Pharmacy and Chemistry. JAMA June 7, 1919, p. 1694.
Roe AL, Collosol argentum and its ophthalmic uses. British Med J. Jan. 16, 1915, p. 104.
Science Digest March 1978 - 57-60 ``Our Mightiest Germ Fighter!''
Stillians AW: Argyria. Arch Dermatol 35:67-77,1937.
Trace Elements in Human Nutrition and Health. Geneva: World Health Organization, 1996
Wallach J. Dead Doctors Don't Lie! Audiotape, 1995


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zipzip
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thanks tom, i have enjoyed your writings on the microbiology of borrela at canlyme tremendously.

i am pyrohhnic by nature and never gave CS any tremendous value, regardless of any neo-logistic repudiation.

the above is true for toa-cat's claw as well.

it would do the lyme community (as you already do) a tremendous service by investigating, once and for all, the myths surround the ameliorating efffects of rife machines.

thanks for your work...

zip

------------------
"Life is wasted on the living."


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pomegranite
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Wow! Thanks for sharing your research Tom. I really really appreciate it.

You probably know that at the OHM Lyme conference in SF silver hydrosol was touted as THE Solution.

Thanks again~
Pomegranite


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Chocolat
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Tom-

Stumbled across your post/information this evening and felt it had to be more than co-incidental as I don't post here anymore. Had a "gut feeling" to check out the latest news and was startled by your article.

Why? Because I have been seeing a doc in Florida who is monitoring my use of Mild Silver Protein--supposedly molecularly structured in a different way.

I do pulse in some Doxy. now and then. Am doing the liquid at present as I had a slight herx on just 1/4 tsp. !! Was hoping to work up to IV.

How do you feel about the MSP ? I assume you clump it in with all the silvers ? Is there a way to e-mail you?

Any communication would be so helpful.

Thanks--guess I was at the right place at the right time--for once!!!

Chocolat


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oxygenbabe
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Tom, it would be interesting if you could test Argentyn23.

Its only 23 ppm. So when I took 1/2 tsp 3x a day for just a few days I got sick as a dog. I got nausea, headaches, and what felt like die-off.

At 1/4 tsp twice a day--very little actual silver--I could tolerate it but it did bother me a little.

It didn't seem I could get a high enough dose to do me a lot of good.

There is something about this preparation that is distinct as I've tried other silver products out of curiosity and none had much effect positive or negative. In addition when I spoke with Trent Nichols MD at a conference--he has lyme and has treated it with a combination of mainstream and alt therapies--he also found the argentyn23 too hard to tolerate. He got extremely bad migraines. Antibiotics and mepron were easier on him, I recall him saying.

Meanwhile, those who have gotten it IV, as I mentioned, there were alarmingly elevated liver enzymes in 4 patients. I'm not sure what that's about.

To the other poster--my recollection about MSP is that it is bound to some kind of protein, its not that hard to make--but can actually culture out bacteria over time. In addition I think its a much higher ppm, something like 400? So I don't know, it seems like IV might deposit a lot over time.

Also, I recall reading somewhere on the net where someone did manage to chelate out the silver. I may have saved it but I don't have the time to look for it right now.

I would like to know if the other silver company, Silver Biotics, is lying about their malaria studies in Africa? I saw the results on powerpoint at a lecture at a recent conference.

In addition, there was a ver yinteresting presentaiton on a silver impregnated (woven, somehow) nylon material that was being used for burn victims. That of course has a bit of a history considering silvadene cream, this fabric was more effective in limiting bacterial growth and speeding healing.

I'm not saying all these link together in the same way, but I must say there's something different about argentyn23. I don't know what it is and I'd like to find out. For myself, as I said, the doses I can tolerate are so small that it doesn't seem like a reasonable experiment for me.


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burnbitter
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Thanks for posting that Tom. It presents a very different experience from the one I've had. Puzzling.

But whatever the cause I'm herxing after the shots. I'm pretty certain it's not pyschosomatic, I'm too pessimistic to begin with. And I've been in blind studies before and sadly I didn't get the drug and hopeful thinking didn't help either.

I wonder if the same volume of water would also cause a herx? Though even 20cc was giving me a herx. I have to say taking it orally doesn't seem to do much at all.

Really don't want to be blue. Really don't want to be sick anymore.


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riversinger
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Tom, I was at the Orthomolecular conference where silver was being recommended. The handouts for that lecture list a number of studies supporting the theory that silver has antimicrobial properties. I haven't read them all, but some seem good.

Maybe you would want to look at them, as well, since you are doing the work. Maybe you have, already, and can point out the errors. I am far from a scientist, though I think I am learning the hard way.

Zhao, g, Steven, SE, "Multiple Parameters for the Comprehensive Evaluation of the Susceptibility of Escherichia coli to the Silver Ion." Biometals, 1998; 11:27.

Feng, Qt, et al, "A Mechanistic Study of the Antibacterial Effect of Silver Ions on Escherichia coli and Staphylococcus aureus," J Biomed Mater Res, 2000 March, 52:662-a.

Berger, TJ et al, "Electrically Generated Silver Ions: Quantatative Effects on Bacterial and Mammalian Cells." Antimicrob Agents Chemother, Feb, 1976; 9(2):357-8.

There are quite a few more in this vein, that seem to indicate effectiveness and safety. The doctor speaking did say some people are unable to properly detoxify silver through the liver, and should not use it via IV.

I don't have a stake in it anymore, but can see why people are confused, because there does seem to be some info that conflicts with what you are saying.

If it would be helpful, I can give you the rest of the citations, but they are in teeny, tiny print, and my bi-focals aren't working so well this late.

Thanks for taking the time to weigh in on this issue.

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support

[This message has been edited by riversinger (edited 13 May 2005).]


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Tom Grier
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Thank you Riverzinger,

I was at the Ortho conference and was mostly dissapointed in what I saw and heard. The people presenting were tied into the products they were presenting and selling and in the case of hydrosol silver the chemistry was poor and inaccurate so why should the references make sense if the basis of the lecture didn't?

But statements like: " It doesn't matter what container or vessel you use to prep the Silver hydrosol for IV, since the Silver hydrosol is self sterilizing."

advocating the absence of sterile procedure for IV is inexcusable, and from my experience incorrect since I cultured out both e-coli and staph from some silver preps sent to me by manufacturers.

I don't test any more since the U of MN Duluth Med School lost so much of its research space. The cost is high just to continue testing endless products. Any other products making medical claims have to prove both saftey and efficacy, and are held accountable to those standards.

Adding an organic compound like a protein does invite more of a chance of contamination and the MSL products I tested (See Dr Farber) also failed to be effective antisceptics.

TG tomgrier2001@yahoo.com

(Sorry this got posted on the wrong topic earlier)


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riversinger
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I agree, Tom, that most of the presentations by the alternative practitioners were extremely lacking in evidence that anything they said was true.

Even the so called evidence, if you looked at it closely, did not support the particular claim that was being made, most of the time.

I have to admit that the silver lecture was confusing to me, because Rentz did not quote relevant parts of the citations he was making to support his statements, so it was hard to tell if it actually proved his point or not.

And yes, the lack of concern for sterile proceedures was not confidence promoting.

What I was wanting to know about the referrences is whether they showed, proved, whatever, that silver did have antimicrobial properties? Because it seems that as long as that is arguable, there will be controversy.

If it is consistently shown that silver is not antimicrobial, then no contest. I'm asking, do the studies show that? I have learned that just because someone SAYS a study proves something, it doesn't mean it actually proves it. Rentz says that the studies prove silver is antimicrobial, but maybe they don't.

Thanks, Tom. Just trying to lay this last aspect of it to rest, as it has become a very hot treatment modality in our area recently, following the conference, and it is hard to know what to tell people. Believe me, your work is greatly respected and appreciated.

------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support


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Ziggy
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****************
TOM said "I don't test any more since the U of MN Duluth Med School lost so much of its research space. The cost is high just to continue testing endless products."
****************

For obvious reasons (--->TOM can explain things to us in a way most everyone can understand!), it would be in everyone's best interest if TOM had quality microscopic and other lab equipment.

So....

If anyone can help procure these items for TOM, please contact him: tomgrier2001@yahoo.com or me (link to eMail above).

Perhaps there are a few people willing to work together as a team to locate these most useful items for TOM? He is very busy working and writing articles for us and I am sure he would appreciate the effort and support of anyone willing to help.

Helping would entail locating and contacting places that may donate equipment or funds to purchase equipment. TOM can tell you about his lab experience and specific needs.

A small team of folks working together for this purpose would be a great benefit to everyone, so please consider helping.

I know that he will make good use of the items in the best interest of all of us!


------------------

http://www.wildernetwork.org


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oxygenbabe
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Riversinger,

Silver is antimicrobial which is why silvadene (silver sulfur cream?) is used for burn patients, but can only be used for a limited amount of time because of absorption of the metal into the system, if I recall this off the top of my head correctly.

Becker's work with silver wires and healing bones was also interesting.

The question is, are any colloidal silvers effective? I must say argentyn23 has an incredibly potent effect on me given the small amount I took (could NOT tolerate it) and the ppm.

I've heard this from others too.

Why would it raise liver enzymes (IV) in some people?

It is doing something. What is it doing?

I am concerned too abuot the IV protocol. I don't like the news of raised liver enzymes and the suggestion that they be basically ignored, while supplementing glutathione, selenium and detoxing (this suggestion comes from the company, not Dr Rentz, as far as I know).

Also when I spoke with Dr Rentz he said he added in antibiotics. I'm trying to remember what, but his reasoning was that the silver did not make it into the kidneys where borrelia also hid.

This really made no sense to me.


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Marnie
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Tom, if you are reading this...Bb follows the glycolysis pathway and the cholesterol pathway. It uses OUR nutrients that we need to make cholesterol.

There appears to be a protective neurohormone.

Mg levels take a huge dive very fast for multiple reasons. This is disasterous.

Mg (and Ca) are needed to make healthy antibodies - restore damaged fab portion. It is needed to make all proteins...enzymes and hormones included.

Mg is needed to make ATP...either route.

Mg controls PFK...rate limiting for glycolysis.

Mg INactivates an enzyme halting cholesterol production in the liver.

Mg is one of the nutrients needed to make serotonin -> melatonin.

Mg is capable of DNA REPAIR.

This is one toxic/toxic causing pathogen. Must get alkaline. Must reduce free radicals asap.

The body is trying to get alkaline via every route...trying to maintain the pH.

I have all the above documented if you need it.


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mimi
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Tom hello,
So how long does it stay in the liver, or body in general? I drank tons of silver for several years just to survive and it did make a difference in how i felt. I have not used any in about a year after finally getting a dx. and meds. so how long should i be concerned?
Thanks,
mimi

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hiker53
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Mimi,

If you haven't turned blue yet and have been off silver for a year, you will not turn into a smurf. I don't know if you need to detox or not.


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BJG
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Hi
Has anyone actually seen someone, first hand, that has turned blue.

I think this is all tied to the term "Blue Bloods" during the plague in Europe.
Those who could afford silver were wealthy, blue bloods.
Thanks
BJG


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8man12
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i dont believe your testing,many others have different views,silver has just recieved a patent,in the US.01/07/2005 - An ionic silver complex designed for human antimicrobial
use has received a US patent, in a move that could well see increased
usage of this technology that exhibits broad-spectrum antimicrobial
qualities as well as displaying a lack of causing resistant strains.

Silver ions, while being lethal to single-celled microorganisms, are
harmless to human cells and are increasingly being used in wound care
due to their ability to facilitate the healing of tissue.

The patented technology provides for a safe product due to the
efficiency of delivery, introducing a quantity of silver to the body -
less than what may exist in a person's average drinking water intake as
a naturally occurring mineral. The difference is this new technology is
designed to deliver the silver as active silver ions with antimicrobial
ability.

Invision International Health Solutions, owners of the ionic silver
complex technology, said that the patented technology was designed to
utilise naturally occurring substances, such as citrate, to achieve
optimal delivery and release of silver ions in the human body, in an
efficient and safe manner.

"This patented technology represents a leap beyond predecessor silver
ion technologies, including those that utilise electrolysis for
manufacturing, such as colloidal silver," says Jay Newman, the
company's president and CEO.

This invention (US patent number, 6,838,095) relates to solutions
including complexed ionic silver. In particular, it relates to
solutions including complexed ionic silver wherein the solutions convey
health benefits through their use or application.

"In addition, this composition-of-matter patent provides far more
meaningful protection than the product-by-process patents that have
been issued on other silver products," Newman added.

Along with its antimicrobial qualities and lack of toxicity to humans,
evidence is mounting that silver ions have powerful antiviral effects
as well. A recent university study suggested ionic silver to be
effective against the SARS virus. In Europe, ionic silver is a
medically approved treatment used to combat systemic viral conditions,
including the common cold and flu.

Silver ion compounds have also been introduced in recent years for
antimicrobial use in medical devices and wound-care products. They are
also being used for pharmaceutical equipment sanitation, and for
killing germs including the germ that causes Legionnaires' Disease in
the water systems of hospitals.

Ionic silver is used for many severe conditions as well, including, for
example, tuberculosis, Epstein-Barr Virus, Lyme Disease, Legionnaires'
Disease, bronchitis, chicken pox, and numerous others.

There are actually few germ-related conditions, or conditions requiring
the repair of tissue, for which ionic silver is not used, since many
claim it is not only effective in killing most bacteria but also many
if not most fungus and viruses.

Some reports indicate that it is also effective against a number of
parasites that might invade the body. Ionic silver is also reported by
some researchers to be effective at treating cancer and HIV.


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Lymelighter
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Here's the link
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi

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treepatrol
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quote:
Originally posted by Lymelighter:
Here's the link
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi

Link dosent work


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8man12
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tom,, i posted a picture of my homemade silver,,,did you test the bought silver with a laser pen?Notice the small particle size.Here is the url for the pic....----http://tinypic.com/9zt4er.jpg
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brentb
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from Tom Grier.
I tested over a dozen colloidal silver preparations on over a dozen pathogens and found virtually zero effectiveness in killing any bacteria including anaerobes, gram-pos organisms, gram-neg organisms, Candida yeast, and GI tract e-coli bacteria. Colloidal silver at full strength had negligible effects on every bacteria and yeast tested.
----------------------------------------------
from the University of North Texas (with pictures)
http://www.silvermedicine.org/colloidalsilverstudytexas.html

This study (and others) PROVES that colloidal silver is effective as an antibacterial agent against Staph, Candidas, Salmonella and Psuedomonas in laboratory studies ( in-vitro ).

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riversinger
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The testing done by the University of Texas was done by a graduate student, which you will find if you follow the links. It is not a formal study, and there is no contact info on how tests were done, or even how to reach the graduate student who supposedly did the testing.

--------------------
Sonoma County Lyme Support
LymeLinks@gmail.com

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brentb
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Unsponsored BYU Laboratory Studies Conducted by Dr. Ron W. Leavitt
Professor of Microbiology at Brigham Young University

Product: ASAP between 1.25 - 5 PPM, Isolated Colloidal Silver




Studies Indicate that ASAP May Be an Effective Antibiotic Alternative

According to Dr. Ron Leavitt of BYU University, as reported by Deseret News, Tuesday, May 16, 2000, a quality colloidal silver may serve as a suitable antibiotic alternative.

Lois Collins of Deseret News quotes Dr. Leavitt as writing "The data suggests that with the low toxicity associated with colloidal silver, in general, and the broad spectrum of antimicrobial activity of this colloidal silver preparation, this preparation may be effectively used as an alternative to antibiotics."

The original study tested ASAP colloidal silver against tetracyclines, fluorinated quinolones (Ofloxacin), the penicillins, the cephalosporins (Cefaperazone) and the macrolides (Erythromycin). Among the microbes tested were streptococcuses, pneumonia, E. coli, salmonella, and shigella.

Lois Collins also quoted Ron Leavitt as stating, "When one of my research assistants suggested that we check this out, I was real skeptical of something that sounded a lot like snake oil. I said we'd do it if they would pay for the supplies. But whatever the data is, it is. We agreed there would be no restriction on publication of the data."

Although Dr. Leavitt stated that there would be no restriction on the publication of data, apparently Brigham Young University disagrees. In a letter dated July 23, 2002, the assistant to general counsel for BYU, stated:

"Any studies that occured at BYU were not intended for dissemenation to the general public."

In what can almost be construed as a blanket attack against first ammendment rights, BYU has been sending intimidating cease and desist orders out to individuals and organizations referencing the study. These letters not only pursue the reasonable demand that copyrights be respected, but further demand that BYU not be mentioned in conjunction with the study at all, despite the fact this information now exists in the public domain.

Further, attached to these letters is an official BYU position statement, where the antimicrobial effects of colloidal silver are compared to bleach. While it is clear ( in fact, self evident ) that studies done in-vitro cannot be applied to a clinical situation, comparing colloidal silver to bleach can only be regarded as a very distasteful disinformation tactic. While the sarcasm of the comment is not lost in the statement, the undiluted truth is. As the quote by Dr. Ron Leavitt above indicates, colloidal silver has a low level of toxicity ( see our pages on silver toxicity for details ).

The Colloidal Silver Database Website's position is that we are not in violation of copyright laws in this matter. Furthermore, we believe that the general public has a right to know the facts associated with the controversy, insofar as doing so does not infringe upon the rights of the parties in question, as a part of our journalistic expression.

http://www.silvermedicine.org/byustudy.html

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bejoy
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I have used colloidal silver topically and have seen evidence of it killing germs.

Three drops in the ear stopped an ear infection that wouldn't budge after three rounds of oral abx. Two drops in the eye got rid of some kind of conjunctivitis infection. I gargled with it and those pussy strep spots in my throat went away in a few hours.

Might just be good timing and a strong immune system each time. I don't know.

I haven't read any research or anecdotal evidence myself of anyone curing lyme with colloidal silver alone. If anyone has, please PM me because I'd sure want to know.

I don't understand how BYU and Texas got positive results, and Tom, you are getting negatives. I'd like to understand. Were the procedures, preparations, or equipment different?

This silver thing looks so shrouded with mystery and intrigue.

My imagination tells me that there really must be some antimicrobial properties in some of the preparations, or why all the hype and why my positive results.

My imagination also tells me that any time something is mysterious, some people will want to see it as a miracle, rather than a possible resource.

I also worry that if it is indeed effective,it won't be used with care, and could add to the superbug problem with people using it intermittently.

My imagination also tells me that people with big money to be made on pharmaceuticals have good reason to discount the effectiveness of something cheap and possible to make at home.

So Tom, what's your agenda? I'm guessing that you are trying to protect people from harming themselves by self-treatment and misinformation. I'm not clear.

I'm glad for anybody's scepticism when it comes to helping and protecting the community.

bejoy

--------------------
bejoy!

"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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James H
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Do you realize you are responding with such vigor to a post that was made nearly two years ago?
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SouthernCO
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Hi Bejoy,

I'm with you on the benefits of colloidal silver. Used it for more than 8 years with NO ill effects. The effect that it did have was to eliminate the recurring infections (Lyme?) which appeared like clockwork every few weeks.

When I began using it, I had no alternatives. My wife believes I might not have survived without it.

I think the only evidence we will ever see in favor of colloidal silver is antecdotal evidence. As you pointed out so well, there aren't and never will be any billion $ patents for colloidal silver. It would be interesting to see the test results if there were.

I'm thinking the silver used in countertops and fabrics must kill microbes via the placebo effect.

Thanks for your input,
Dave

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karatelady
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I'm using the Invision on my Iguanas' skin (yes, I have three 3-1/2 ft. iguanas - nobody told me how big they got when I bought those tiny little things 6 years ago).

I'll let you know what, if anything, it does for them. I don't know if its lack of sunlight or them crawling on top of each other but two of them are really messed up with bumps, white spots and sores.

I've been spraying it on them now for a couple of weeks - too early to tell.

Maybe the silver will give some good results that I can post! Or maybe I'll finally be rid of them ~ that would make my husband happy. [Frown]

Sandy

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Carmen
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I came across this old thread on a google search about CS. Lots of opinions here!

I am using high amounts of nutrisilver right now to treat lyme.

As a nurse I used silvadine cream on patient's wounds incluidng bedsores, and a wide variety of wounds really. Doctors were amazed as I proved to them it was worth much more than in the application to burns.

In that nursing home, silvadine cream became the topical treatment of choice, for as long as I worked there anyway.

There had been a rather lengthy testimonial from a woman who cured her MS with CS. This is a real story as far as I can tell. She had posted her story on several sites with her phone number. So one day I called her to find that she had died due to an auto accident several years after her cure.

I spoke with her husband. He requested that those sites remove their phone number. Well I didn't have control of that... but he said yes, he didnt mind that her story remained on websites. His wife wanted people to know the truth. So here is Nancy's story of the use of CS to cure her MS... and I can't help but wonder if her MS was actually Lyme disease.

Nancy used several types of colloidal silver, products she purchased from a store, colloidal silver that she made herself with a colloidal silver generator, homemade silver that she combined hydrogen peroxide with and finally Argentyn 23 by Natural Immunogenics which was used in an IV preparation available only to medical or licensed naturopathic doctors.

http://www.n-icorp.com/index.php
http://www.n-icorp.com/pdf/Argentyn23Brochure.pdf

Nancy’s story:

“Colloidal Silver: Oral Use”

“I drank 2 oz of Silver water twice a day - in the morning & at three PM. Day four I begin to drink 8 oz of Silver water two times per day. I seem to have more energy and the end of the day seems to come a little later. I do not drag as much to my car.

Day 12 The night paralyzation seems to be easing. I can get out of bed with more ease Day 14 thru Day 18 My fingers and toes are tingling more and more. My toes are aching. As the days go by my fingertips seem to be aching, also. Day 20 I seem to have surreal feelings in my fingers. It’s like a far away out of body feeling. They still ache.

Day 21, I am getting out of bed much easier and quicker. I climbed a ladder at work, and I am not nearly so tired when I leave work. I can actually walk to my car without holding on to the wall. I did some things on the floor at work, and was able to get up without too much trouble.

Week four, The bottom of my feet are tingling, and I could feel whiskers on Mike’s face (a surreal feeling). I could feel cool bathroom tile on the bottom of my feet.

My legs ached all night. It was very painful, I wanted to scream out. My legs hurt a great deal. The next morning I was able to walk further than I had in years. Mike and I walked about four blocks that morning. I feel stronger and stronger every day.

Week five, More and more feeling in both fingers and toes every day. Less surreal and more natural. Both toes and finger get cold.

Week 10, Seem to have small changes every day. Again my toes ached for several days, then I had more feeling in my toes. It’s as though I have a non feeling pad at the bottom of my feet, but feeling all the way around. Like an animal’s paw with the padded bottom. It seems I hurt for a few days, then something feels better.

Week 12, I feel like a caterpillar in a cocoon. I wonder if they have pain during the metamorphosis. The bottom of my feet are no longer numb, the fingers on my right hand tingle only at the very tips. I don’t even think about lifting a heavy container with my right hand. For years, I wouldn’t dare lift, or I would drop whatever I was holding. I poured coffee from a pot without even thinking about it, until I noticed myself. Doing it.

There is NO WAY I could be working the hours I have this Christmas, if not for the water. Last year, I had to wear my cooling vest all day every day, and when I went home I could barely walk to my car. Some days I literally dragged my right leg to get to my car. I had to hold on to the building to get around the corner and into my car. When I got home I actually crawled on my hands and knees to get up the steps.

This year I never once had to wear my cooling vest. I walk normally to my car at the end of the day, and the steps are not too much of a problem. I still go up one leg only, but it is stronger. The fatigue is minimized, also. I’ve worked many more hours this year than last.

Week 14: I started making my own water about three weeks ago, and I’ve had to send samples to San Antonio for testing. It seems the probe they sent me was not working to full potential, and for about a week I was drinking water with very minimal amounts of silver. After the week I KNEW IT!!! I was regressing. Things were not working so well, again. I was regressing.

Thankfully we figured out the problem and within a couple of days I was back on track. Thank God. This set back has convinced me even more. As if that were possible. I have my life back. I will never give up silver water. Week 20: Christmas Week. I had 16 people for dinner Christmas Eve. I had 7 people for dinner Christmas day, I worked 11 hours the day after Christmas, and I had 14 people for dinner the next day.

That is four days out of four I entertained at my house. I can’t remember when I did something like that. I still have night paralysis, but not nearly as bad as it used to be, and I have a lot of stiffness still when I sit a long time, but nothing near as bad as it used to be. My energy level is very high.

August 2002

My MS Update This is the second anniversary of my long, but wonderful journey with colloidal silver (CS). I am a 59-year-old female who had relapsing remitting MS for 31 years. About 1995 it changed to secondary progressive MS. Thus began my long road of decline. Everyday I got worse.

When I discovered CS I could barely walk. I was beginning to use a cane. I could not even go up on the curb without aid. My prognosis was grim. I had some knowledge of the great properties of silver, so the idea of CS intrigued me. I researched CS. What did I have to loose?

I began drinking 16 oz per day. In about three weeks I began to notice a difference. You already have a log of my first year’s progress. I seemed to reach a plateau about this time. I did not improve, BUT I never got worse.

I have since had an MRI and it showed that at this time Aug 2001, I no longer had MS. I have had no new lesions for well over a year. What I was working on at the time is to now repair the damage. Since the damage is to the myelin and not the central nervous system, I was quite confident I could improve.
1 year-6 months: Hydrogen Peroxide Added

I have researched adding hydrogen peroxide to the CS. One drop of H2O2 per 2 oz. of CS. I learned this would cause the tiny silver particles to break up into even more minute particles. After 15 minutes, the peroxide was evaporated out of the CS, so it is not harmful to the body, but the tinier particles of silver got into the blood stream quicker.

All this time it was a slow process because by the time the silver got to the myelin where it was needed, it was so diluted, it couldn’t penetrate the lesions and kill the mycoplasma (MS virus).

Within a week I began to feel old symptoms again. This is what I call a healing crisis: I would get symptoms of the MS as the virus was dying and the dying pathogen aggravated the nerves, so for 2-4 days I would feel like I was having varying degrees of exacerbation. After a short period, it would end and I was improved again.

If I had known about this earlier, I am convinced my recovery time would have increased a great deal.

1 year-9 months: I am sure there is a way to go even quicker……… I began to research IV drips. There are cases of HIV-AIDS infected patients going into complete remission after three infusions. I worked on this project for about six weeks. I finally found someone with a protocol of infusing CS intravenously. I also found a doctor willing to work with me and give this a try.

1 year-11 months: Colloidal Silver IV Administered

First IV: I had my first IV. By that evening I had my first healing crisis; my legs became extremely heavy (like they were 2 years ago). My fingers tips were still numb, but the numbness was extremely exaggerated. All was better at day four.

Second IV a week later: My legs are again aching a great deal, the numbness in my fingers is very intense. It almost feels like they are not attached to me. All better by day three.

Third, fourth, fifth IV: Each time I experienced a reverse of some symptoms I had either forgotten about over the last 40 years, or didn’t realize over the years were actually MS symptoms. I’ve practically no problems at all. I feel better then I have in 15 years. I will have no more IV’s, but I will NEVER stop drinking CS.

If I had known about the IV’s I probably would have had full recovery even sooner. I am quite sure the old lesions are going away. I am anxious for another MRI to prove this also.

TWO YEAR ANNIVERSARY: No more MS, no more symptoms. Most myelin repaired.

PS: My friend, also an MS patient is on the IV drip. She also no longer has MS (By her MRI), but she was sores than me, and not able to get out of her wheel chair. Since IV’s she has given up all her spasm medication and has begun to take STEPS ON HER OWN.

I would be happy to share what I've learned with anyone. Call me,….contact information deleted per family request.”

End of testimonial.

Nancy’s testimonial is just another confirmation that colloidal silver, if manufactured correctly will not turn you blue, can be taken in large quantities for a long time (much larger than label recommendations) and can cure devastating diseases of microbial origin.

Currently MS is considered an autoimmune disease. I say the cause is known by the cure and in Nancy’s case it was either a virus or a bacteria or a protozoa. MMS has also cured MS, and for the same reason. MS, is most cases, are not an autoimmune disease of unknown origin. It is a pathogenic disease and the repeated cures with antimicrobials prove it.

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seibertneurolyme
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I am not going to argue with anyone.

But I will point out that hubby tried not only oral colloidal silver, but IV colloidal silver. He used the Argentyn 23 brand.

The doses he used back in 2006 (I think that was the year) were not as high as what I have heard some LLMD's are currently using. Nevertheless, hubby did not feel that the colloidal silver was strong enough to kill any of his pathogens.

This was before he had aggressively treated his bart or babs, but he had done the "standard" 2 months of IV Rocephin along with I think it was 2 six week courses of IV Primaxin prior to doing the IV colloidal silver.

If I remember correctly the dose he used was 2 ounces of IV colloidal silver either one or two times daily -- can't remember which now. He did this for probably 3 months.

As with all "natural" cures you can find anecdotal evidence to support their use. But if it was really the cure for lyme and tickborne illnesses then I think there would be a lot less people on this forum.

Hubby felt that maybe the colloidal silver might have some effect on viruses, but that was never a major issue for him so I can't say for sure.

Bea Seibert

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Carmen
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as with all "antibiotic" treatments you can find antedotal evidence to support their use. If it were not so there would not be so many people here using antibiotics, yet failing.. making antidotal evidence suspicious across the board. What works for some does not work for others.
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seibertneurolyme
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Carmen,

I am not picking on you. I just hate to see patients with limited resources spend their money on unproven treatments for lyme and tickborne diseases. I don't want people that don't have the time to do the research or do not understand the science of borrelia to have false hope.

There have been many products and treatments over the years that have fallen into disuse simply because they did not help substantial numbers of patients. Yes, there are always a few lucky people that have some positive results.

Hubby wasted years and thousands of dollars on unproven treatments. In my opinion, if he had had aggressive babesia treatment early on, before it became drug resistant, he might be alive today.

If colloidal silver was the magic bullet, then my question is why is Willy Burgdorfer still sick with lyme? He wrote about the benefits of colloidal silver years ago.

Antibiotics are the only proven treatment at this point in time. And yes, the success rate is nowhere near what it needs to be. There are obviously many reasons for that -- both economic and political.

Until Buhner came along there was no well thought out scientifically researched alternative protocol. His approach and Dr Z to a lesser extent have been helpful, but again they are not curative for a large percentage of patients either.

Bea Seibert

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bigstan
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Waste of time waste of money, maybe turn blue not 4 me.


http://abcnews.go.com/Health/internet-sensation-papa-smurf-dies-blue-people-live/story?id=20368758

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HERX is a Four Letter Word!

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Carmen
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bigstan if you are trying to justify your beliefs about colloidal silver on this case then clearly you need more research skills. Hundreds of thousands of people use colloidal silver everyday across this nation and hundreds of thousands more across Europe.

I haven't seen a single blue person walking around. It is well known that the blue man used an improperly homemade product. Only his ignorance got him in the situation that he got himself in.

I did meet a blue woman who was given a silver product when she was 19 because she was dying of a repiratory disease and they knew not what else to do for her. I met her when she was 95, after she had had a career and raised normal children. She died from causes unrelated to silver.

I can probably think of many MRSA patients I have had over the years who would have appreciated the chance to choose to be blue over being dead ... but no one turns blue from the new CS products these days.

Ive known a number of people who have taken CS for a very long time for health issues that they had no other way of managing. None of them are blue.

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Carmen
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Bea, I am one of those people with limited resources. I dont have $2,000 a month for a pic line and antibiotics. Got any spare cash for me?

didn't think so.

this link tells about Willy Burgdorfer's research in lyme with silver. I was not familiar with it until you made me go look. His work says that CS kills lyme in the sprirochete form. We now know that there are at the very least 5 forms with over a hundred variables within those classifications. Silver may not work on all of them...

it may work on more than just the spirochete though. Clearly there are things to do to deal with the cyst form. My doc has been having success eliminating the cyst form without antibiotic drugs. His patients feel better. I know people whom he as delivered from deaths door without antibiotic drugs CS is part of his protocol, that encompasses other modalities.

http://www.resultsrna.com/products/lyme_disease_treatment.php

I can only assume that one's success with silver will depend on a lot of different variables, just as with the use of antibiotics.

For most people out there lyme will be a life long chronic condition that they must keep beaking down over and over again. Silver solutions may be of help.

"The difficulties with long-term antibiotic protocols include the expense, lack of insurance coverage, side-effects, potential for development of antibiotic resistance and lack of studies demonstrating efficacy. If you or someone you know suffers from it, you are all too aware of these facts"

If a doctor prescribes an antibiotic and does not know if it will work or has not clear cut studies that it will work, if it works in less than 50% of his patients while at the same time he subjects his patients to antibiotic toxicity, superbugs, and consequntial death, then he is no better than a quack, lining his wallet off of the life savings of others at the cost of their security, vitality and total life.

Clearly the above website says it all
Antibiotics are not successful in many many peoople. More research in conventional and alternative meds are required.

Dead patients tell no tales.

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lululymemom
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quote:
Originally posted by seibertneurolyme:


As with all "natural" cures you can find anecdotal evidence to support their use. But if it was really the cure for lyme and tickborne illnesses then I think there would be a lot less people on this forum.

Bea Seibert [/QB]

I think that is an unfair statement. There are just as many if not more patients on this forum that have not had success with abx.
What needs to be considered is who is going to be better off.. The one taking long term abx and their side effects or the ones using alternative medicine.
I personally have seen positive results with silver for both my daughter, myself and my pets.
There will always be someone out there trying to discredit the benefits and use scare tactics to make people stop.

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IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Rivendell
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I think that as more and more bacteria become resistant to antibiotics, we will see silver as one of the alternatives used for healing infections.

Did anyone see the Frontline documentary on antibiotic-resistant bacteria?

We had better be finding alternatives and fast.

(And yes i belive antibiotics are needed in treating lyme and co, but bacteria are getting really really smart.)

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http://buhnerhealinglyme.com
http://www.tiredoflyme.com/the-cowden-protocol-for-lyme-disease.html http://www.sinomedresearch.org http://www.lymenet.org/SupportGroups/

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BobG
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Sci Transl Med 19 June 2013: 
Vol. 5, Issue 190, p. 190ra81 
Sci. Transl. Med. DOI: 10.1126/scitranslmed.3006276
RESEARCH ARTICLE
MICROBIOLOGY
Silver Enhances Antibiotic Activity Against Gram-Negative Bacteria

This research is definitive and very well done. It shows the antibiotic-like effects silver has on gram negative organisms (e.g., B. burgdorferi and Bartonella)and synergy with antibiotics.

Hopefully somone is looking into the potential of this research for Lyme treatment protocols and recommended treatment protocols.

I would think IDSA and CDC would be JUMPING ALL OVER this research given their Chicken Little concerns over treating Persistent Lyme Disease Infection with long term antibiotics and the creation of superbugs ;-)

[ 10-27-2013, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: BobG ]

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'Kete-tracker
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yep, Tom... that pretty much confirms what I now feel about colloidal silver, which I *did* take for a few weeks at the suggest of my LLN.D. during my recovery. After all, I felt it couldn't hurt...
but it never had any percievable effect.

Siver solutions may have some antiseptic propertiers if used on 'external' surfaces, but to think the GI tract will pass an "effective" amount of the suspended particles into the bloodstream after ingestion always seemed a real -stretch-.

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lululymemom
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Kete..Tom hasnt been on this site since 2006. Seems he was on here less than a year.. most of which he spent discrediting the use of silver. He also had negative things to say about vitamin C.

--------------------
IGM 41 IND, 83-93+ IGG 31 IND,34 IND, 41++, 58+, 83-93 IND

31 Epitope test neg.

Bartonella henselae 1:100

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Carmen
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quote:
Originally posted by BobG:
Hopefully somone is looking into the potential of this research for Lyme treatment protocols and recommended treatment protocols.

I would think IDSA and CDC would be JUMPING ALL OVER this research given their Chicken Little concerns over treating Persistent Lyme Disease Infection with long term antibiotics and the creation of superbugs ;-)

CDC wont be jumping on this because their upper echelon members are all tied in with pharameutical companies.
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Carmen
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quote:

Siver solutions may have some antiseptic propertiers if used on 'external' surfaces, but to think the GI tract will pass an "effective" amount of the suspended particles into the bloodstream after ingestion always seemed a real -stretch-. [/QB]

I think most of the silver is absorbed in the stomach and some in the upper intestine. One should take it on an empty stomach.

And I agree many silver preparations probably are not strong enough. Also people do not take them for long enough, enough times per day, in sufficient dosage. It should also be taken with high powered enzymes to help break down biofilm so the buggers can be fully exposed to the medicine... but that would be true with whatever medicine you are taking.

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Lymedin2010
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I herxed on colloidial silver & so did a local individual that I know of. Actually, it is this person that introduced me to silver.

I did not think that I would herx from it, since I take SOOOOOOOOO many different ABX & herbs and I don't typically herx.

I know a herx when I get hit with one. I had stopped taking silver after 6 months of not getting any better. I then tested the same amount that I had initially herxed with some few months later. No herx to speak of the second time around.

Silver did not fix any of my symptoms, but it most definitely made me herx.

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