posted
The first suggestion I received off the conventional [ie: 'clueless'] path in addressing Lyme was via my sis-in-law, who knew someone with LD. It was Teasel Root.
I did a bit of research to find that Teasel Root is a remedy of sorts recommended by folks - and medical-type individuals - that have Lyme Disease.
I haven't found "why" it works, but I've personally experienced a decline in 'feeling better' the two times I stopped the maintenance dose [ID doc told me to stop it the first time; I ran out of it the second time].
Anyone have experience with, or thoughts about, Teasel Root ~ for better or worse or indifferent?
~ live
-------------------- "Yes, I'll have a Cosmopolitan... but please, hold the Lyme." Posts: 17 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just did a 'Search' here for Teasel and found that it has been discussed (of course!)...
-------------------- "Yes, I'll have a Cosmopolitan... but please, hold the Lyme." Posts: 17 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
Liv, I started a very small dose of teasel [one drop] last week in the hope of helping my knees to be more bearable so that I can sleep.
I don't want to ramp up dose because I want to avoid antimicrobials at present because I'm on AI therapy.
Wow! One drop produced significant 'Lyme malaise'? Herx, so I am continuing with just one drop at night: unless it's coincidental, it does seem to be helping the knee inflammation.
I may well take a more determined dose [3 drops x 3 per day] when I have finished AI.
What is your maintenance dose and did you start with a higher one?
If the information is to be believed, what I like about the idea of teasel is that it is said to make the bacteria feel unwelcome in the deeper recesses of the body, driving them out into the bloodstream to encourage your own body to recognise and deal with them [hopefully!].....rather than being a 'killer' in itself. As I am on a later round of AI, I hope that my Immune system IS starting to recognise undesirables.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hi, ukcarry ~ Last September I started with one drop/day and worked my way up to 3 drops/2x's a day and stayed there, until I stopped in November when the arrogant ID specialist said he'd never heard of it, so therefore it wasn't 'good'.
Things I'd noticed after ceasing the Teasel Root didn't really manifest until several weeks later - more emotional, more fatigue, more brain fog, little things like fingernails turned to tissue paper, etc.
So I started again in January with a small dose once a day and worked back up to 3 drops/2x day. Until I ran out in early August while out of town. Again, it took a couple weeks for me to realize that symptoms seemed to deepen - less energy, more depression, worsening brain fog, pain everywhere. You know the drill.
I'm starting again only with 2 drops once a day, toward a similar maintenance dose as before.
The instructions I'd received initially direct up to 3 drops 3x's a day, stating that some folks administer more of a powerhouse dosage than that in hopes of a type of 'coup', but there will likely be consequences of severe Herxheimer that would subside after reducing the dosage again.
Thanks for you input! I do hope the regimen you're on now gets you where you ought to be and cast those devils ouT.
~ liv
-------------------- "Yes, I'll have a Cosmopolitan... but please, hold the Lyme." Posts: 17 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
Thanks, Liv and good luck with your healing progress too!
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
| IP: Logged |
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Teasel did nothing for me. I wasted a lot of time on it but, at that time, I knew of nothing else. However, some have seen improvements. With all things, some work better for some than for others.
============================
incorporating TEASEL root (thanks to BeaS for the link).
An overview of lyme and coinfections from a treating herbalist.
Note -- The document is 81 pages long so it may take a couple of minutes to load.
============================
You mentioned Teasel as the only alternative supplement you've heard about, so I thought these other sources that may be of interest -- but remember that a good ILADS-educated LLMD is best to consult.
Alternative treatments can help as support but even most of the LL ND (naturopathic doctors) require antibiotics at times.
To compare and contrast the work of authors regarding some of the most common complementary or integrative paths. Note that many still incorporate antibiotics.
This is not at all a complete list . . . just a start. It's far easier to have a LL doctor with lots of experience so that you don't have to do all the homework. Suggestions here are, in no way, intended to take the place of a good LL doctor. This is for patient education and also to serve as a basis for discussion with your LL doctor.
HEALING LYME DISEASE: An Integrated Approach to Curing Chronic Infection by DKr, M.D. (2004)
============================
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.
A synergistic formula of 6 rainforest botanicals which are traditionally used in South America for syphilis (a type of spirochete bacteria) and other bacterial conditions.* This product was featured in an article by the Health Sciences Institute (see page 4).
Includes how to find an ILADS-educated LL ND, an Acupuncturist, a doctor of Oriental Medicine (O.M.D.), or a doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine (D.Ay.), certified herbalists or nutritionists, etc. -
[ 09-02-2010, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
| IP: Logged |
canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I think it depends what source you have too.
Teasel from certain parts of the country may have more effects than other teasel roots.
Just what I heard.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
After reading and researching lyme for awhile now and experiencing many different alternatives I've grown a certain perspective. Does teasel kill lyme -- my guess is no! Does teasel put lyme into hibernation, I doubt it. Is it possible teasel essentially helps the body to live with lyme and continue on normally?
Teasel has a way of balancing the body back to normal operation unless there is some physical impediment or blockage. It also tends to work well with other herbals. I make my own, I can make a quart for about 20 dollars. If I buy an ounce it costs a lot more then that to make a quart. And because I probably can't use an entire quart, I'll give some away.
I just take a dropperful of teasel once a day as an insurance policy. And I like the taste and the plant. It grows wild in many places where I walk.
Pathogens are usually villains we try to fight. My perspectives has changed on that view point. The problem is operating without symptoms and to have energy to live well. A poison can be a vilain or a friend. If you take poison in a small dosage such as poke root tincture it might aid lymph drainage in higher dosage dire consequences. Lyme for instance is a resourceful organism, if we could evolve or adapt it to be an ally, it might actually make us stronger in the end. In human evolution we might find many of the pathogens of the past are now helpful organisms.
I remember in a biology class we had 20 or 30 fruit flies in a large bottle. The teacher put some kind of poisonous gas into the bottle and all the fruit flies died but one. Who somehow it was able to persevere.
So one could say, instead of killing lyme, learn to live with lyme as an ally. By making it a villain that always needs to be destroyed, I somewhat wonder the logic in it. Especially if it is an organism which can never be eradicated.
So what are you trying to solve becomes an intuitive question you have to ask yourself. If you have lymph soreness while doing teasel maybe you have to do both things.
On the other hand too much teasel might not be good. So it is important with poke root and teasel to get the correct amount and frequency and maximize benefit.
Now add St. Johns wort or echinacea grape seed oil olive leaf extract diet. Intuitively we just take these tools to slowly improve every day and change what we do by sensing what's best to do.
All these tools are just very small levers to help our body's improve symptoms not necessarily to kill the pathogens.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hubby consulted an herbalist who specializes in lyme. She said that in her experience teasel only worked for about 5 % of lyme patients. She felt that it worked best on people who lived in Minnesota and Wisconsin where Matthew Woods the herbalist and author who first recommended this herb practices I think. She thought this was probably due to different strains of lyme in different partrs of the country.
Anyway -- hubby tried it at low doses -- 3 drops either 2 or 3 times a day using a couple of different sources. Then I found a cheaper source and tried him on 1 or 2 droppers per day. As far as I could tell he had no response at either dose -- but he has no joint pain so maybe that is why it didn't do anything.
The cheapest source I know -- I order Oregon Grape Root and many other tinctures from this source regularly. 4 ounces for $10.95
Here is another reference that discusses using teasel in combo with resveratrol and some of the other Buhner herbs. Theoretically this sounds like a pretty good program, but hubby has not tried this in its entirety yet.
And finally the book -- Healing Lyme Disease Naturally published in 2010 by Wolf D Storl and Matthew Wood -- includes the use of teasel and sauna and some other natural treatments.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
"...I located and harvested a supply from a small stand in the Pisgah National Forest in western North Carolina.� (It is considered a "rank weed" by them...
"Subsequent research shows that the herb's range in the U.S. almost exactly parallels the range of the Lyme carrying deer tick - an observation that quite comfortably fits my notion of natural cures."
I definitely hear you on the seek out and use the pointed knowledge of an LL MD/LL ND, Keebler, et al - but... the cost is a major factor for me at this point in time. I am looking forward to consulting with a Lyme-literate practitioner - sooner than later, hopefully!
Meanwhile, I figure me doing some legwork and some cautious treatment of symptoms is the lesser of two evils, the other being doing nothing...?
Speaking of symptoms, though - lymie_in_md (I'm in MD, too!), you noted lymph soreness. That's my most constant and distracting pain. I *think* that's what it is... Pain in and around my ears, my temples, down my throat and the back of my neck is aLways there, just a matter of degree day-to-day. OTC xtra-strength meds only sometimes will reduce it. Chronic pain sucks!
-------------------- "Yes, I'll have a Cosmopolitan... but please, hold the Lyme." Posts: 17 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
posted
I spoke with the MD creator of one teasel tincture I took. It specifically mentions Lyme disease on the bottle. He said it's "nice but not going to cure Lyme".
His recommendation, which I have not (yet) followed, was Rife and alakaline diet.
Posts: 252 | From NJ USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
From what I keep reading during the years and own experience, teasel either works VERY well or it doesn't work at all.
That's my impression.
I had both experiences in two tick bites, first it did NOTHING literally, I left my tincture almost without use. Then muuuch later, I tried it again (after being bitten several times again), and it worked very well.
I have the general impression that when it works, it is usually for people with lyme arthritis. But not all (I had arthritis the whole time, different bites..., once it didn't work at all either, the other time it worked).
Of course, it is not monotherapy even when it works well. To get the whole of the disease under control if it got chronic, there's more than teasel to take.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
It's beginning to sound as if it may be better for some specific strains of borrelia???
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
ukcarry - can I ask, where did you purchase your teasel root? I want to try some.
Posts: 37 | From Whitehead, Northern Ireland | Registered: Feb 2009
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
I don't think it is the strain of borrelia instead the situation of the disease. I think Selma brought up an excellent point of lyme arthritis as a situation where teasel might help. It is understood herbally that plant constituents represents the structure of the plant. If you look at a teasel plant close up. It appears to have strongly connected parts leaves and thorns. The leaves have to be strong because it collects water where the leave connect to the plant stem. This expression might create the constituents to aid issues in joints and connective tissue.
It similar in other plants, some are good for the liver, some the kidneys. We use these herbs to support areas in the body which are weak. Teasel is no different. Teasel strength is joints, connective tissue, and possibly muscle strength.
Any herb should be used to support the weakness. And sometimes it can take months before you see some benefit. Understanding your body and understanding the types of herbs to support weakness might be a better way to approach the reduction of symtoms.
I really like herbs and despite being well I still enjoy using them as part of my diet either in tincture, essential oils or tea. For me it makes live more interesting and enjoyable. And I really like teasel, I wild crafted a tincture of it. I'll put a dropper's full in water in early in the morning with others tinctures. It is very flavorfull in my opinion.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
Andie333
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7370
posted
I'm on teasel root now and don't want to be redundant in my posting.
Only that this has helped me get to a whole new level of healing, after 5 years on abx.
I saw a new practitioner who suggested the teasel, in addition to my abx. I started very slowly, had a significant herx, then held it at a 1 drop dose.
I'm now at a significantly higher dosage and continue to get better.
It makes sense to me that this will either help some people, or it won't. Most things people try in this community seem to work that way.
Like Bob, I take the teasel in water each day--once in the morning and once at night.
One thing I'd be curious about from Bob is this: what's the difference between making a tincture of fresh teasel and dried teasel?
andie
Posts: 2549 | From never never land | Registered: May 2005
| IP: Logged |
Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Teasel didn't do anything for me.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
Another herb sitting on the shelf waiting for me to try. But I won't bother as the posts here are not very positive. I did use TOA free cat's claw and grapefruit seed extract, which did seem to help.
I was told the three herbs to try are cat's claw, andrographis and teasel root.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
| IP: Logged |
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
Nefferdun, if you have some already, why not try it [start with one drop] alongside your other treatment?
One of the things teasel is supposed to be good for is to help transport medicaments [herbal or otherwise] to parts of the body that are hard to access. It is also said to draw the borrelia from remote parts of the body into the bloodstream, where antimicrobials [or your own Immune System if you're lucky], so it is a sensible option as a longterm 'companion' treatment to try.
The three herbs you mention have been prominent in herbal Lyme treatments for a few years now and since then new combinations of herbs [eg Byron Whits remedies, some of the Raintree formulations, BLT etc] have been developed. I'm not saying that these might be better; just indicating that there are other options.
By the way, Stephen Buhner's first choice of his core herbs is now Resveratrol/ Japanese Knotweed, as Andrographis does not agree with everyone.
Posts: 1647 | From UK | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic