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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Best way to control limbic seizures/overactivity?

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Author Topic: Best way to control limbic seizures/overactivity?
CD57
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My limbic system is inflamed and too excitable causing all kinds of problems.

Has anyone experienced this and found a supplement or med that controls it?

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debilyn
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Up for input.
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Keebler
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http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/12/1/9.pdf

Alternative Medicine Review, Vol. 12; Number 1, 2007

Natural Approaches to Epilepsy - by Alan R. Gaby, M.D.

-------------------

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/epilepsy.htm

Epilepsy and Seizures - by Lawrence Wilson, MD April 2011

-------------------

http://www.vrp.com/brain-health/seizures-a-nutritional-approach

Nutritional Approach to Seizures - by Ward Dean, MD

-------------------

http://www.livestrong.com/article/302297-what-are-the-benefits-of-magnesium-for-epilepsy/

What Are the Benefits of Magnesium for Epilepsy?

- by Melissa Lingohr-Smith

Excerpt:

. . . the anticonvulsant effect of magnesium seems to block the activation of certain excitatory receptors in the brain. . . .

- full article at link above.
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Keebler
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The Wilson article above explains why to avoid L-Glutamine. More detail:

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http://www.itmonline.org/arts/glutamine.htm

AMINO ACID SUPPLEMENTS I: GLUTAMINE with Reference to the Related Compound Glutamate

-by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.

2/3 of the way down, see section:

Glutamate in Neurological Diseases

Excerpts:

. . . it is found that glutamate levels in the central nervous system become unusually high at sites of pathology . . . .

. . . Also, glutamate is excreted by immune cells that take part in inflammatory processes; the result is high local concentrations at the neurons in progressive neurological diseases such as MS and ALS. . . .

[posters interjection: I would add lyme & co. to that list, too, as there is a clear connection as lyme being one cause of MS and ALS.]

. . . The excess glutamate at the neuron acts as a poison; . . .

. . . Laboratory research has revealed that in the progressive, debilitating disease ALS, one of the many processes involved in disease progression appears to be damage of nerve cells by accumulation of glutamate.

In relation to multiple sclerosis, changes in control of glutamate homeostasis in the central nervous system might contribute to demyelination of the white matter of the brain (19).

Based on preliminary animal studies, it has been suggested that glutamate dumped by immune cells can exacerbate the nerve damage (20).

One of the means by which a stroke (causing blockage of blood circulation to the brain) results in brain damage is through an increase in glutamate levels in the brain cells (of course, oxygen deprivation and other effects are also contributors).

These findings point to local glutamate excess as an important factor in brain diseases.

The role of glutamate in neurological disorders has raised the question as to whether persons with such neurological diseases

might have to be careful not to get high levels of either glutamine or glutamate via their diet and/or by taking glutamine supplements . . . .

. . . .

- Full article at link above.

======================================

You probably are clear of additives but, just to be sure:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors

==========================================

Best to be gluten-free as gluten can trigger seizures in some people, too, even days after exposure. The Ward Dean article above mentions that.
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Keebler
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What kind of supplements can help. Includes antioxidants that decrease inflammation:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER SUPPORT LINKS & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.

Some KIDNEY support detail, too.

-------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/89790

Topic: NATURAL SLEEP & ADRENAL SUPPORT
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Keebler
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Specific supplements that have calmed seizure activity for me have included over the years:

Berberine HCL (GlycoX) - 500 mg 3 x a day

I started Berberine a month or so ago and am thrilled that the startle seizures have diminished. It is neither sedating nor stimulating. But it can raise tinnitus if too much is taken too soon. Start with just one 250 mg a day for at least a week.

First, READ all about it from a variety of professional sources. There are certain Rx that would not mix with it. Read MARNIE's recent posts on it.

Holy Basil (Tulsi) - calming

Andrographis - sedating and diuretic

Allicin (Hepapro brand) - can stimulate tinnitus

Schizandra

Magnesium

Taurine

Fish Oil

-------------------

INFECTIONS must be managed.

Ultimately, infection needs to be properly addressed. As, IMO, infection is what causes seizures for most with lyme (and, of course, the toxicity and damage from infections).

I've never been able to get on-going treatment so have pieced together what I can.

If you have access to a good LLMD or LL ND, be sure all the bases are covered so as to address infection(s) adequately. Also consider:

PARASITES

HEAVY METALS

PORPHYRIA

MOLD exposure

CHEMICALS & synthetic SCENTS in personal, household products or environment
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[ 08-30-2012, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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I'll admit to a bias against most pharmaceutical anti-seizure drugs, however, that's mostly because none helped me and many made seizures much worse. Having porphyria, though, explains much of this.

One anti-seizure drug that does not require the liver detox pathway Cytochrome P-450 is Neurontin. But that also made things much worse. Just last week someone posted a clue about why: it can cause fluid retention.

My inner ear is directly tied to much of the seizure activity in my case. Any fluid retention will make things worse in my case then.

However, were there to be a pill that would work for me, I'd be the first in line. Do consider all options.

If you do take an Rx, though, because they can be very hard on the liver or kidneys, be certain to have excellent liver & kidney support and drink enough water throughout the day and night.

And the underlying CAUSE would still need to be addressed. Be sure your LL doctor is considering the full range of stealth infections.
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Keebler
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MASSAGE, too. Do not underestimate the power of weekly or twice weekly massage, if possible. When I could do this, it made a fabulous difference.

Trager style massage for at least one quarter of the session seems especially helpful for the limbic system. Shiatsu, too.

90-minute sessions are best, if possible.

AGGRESSIVE REST may be required. Dark, Quiet.

RHYTHMIC BREATHING

If you can do it, MEDITATION. If attention span is a problem, a better choice:

QI GONG or TAI CHI can be fabulous help with calming, too. QI GONG requires less turning of the head and is a bit more meditative.

But research the style and the instructor to be sure you have a healing form. Some forms are more militaristic in nature. I made that mistake big time at one class I blindly attended.
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Keebler
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How the EARS can trigger or contribute to seizures -

Wanting to cover all the bases here. I mentioned that my seizure history is tied not just to lyme, et.al. and the liver, et.al. but also to the inner ear.

If you have any vestibular symptoms (inner & middle ear), know they often accompany lyme. Still, there are certain things to avoid that can help. Be mindful of the "irritations" on this list.

For instance, fluorescent lights are usually bothersome for those with vestibular symptoms. AND they can also really clobber those with seizures. So:

AVOID ALL FLUORESCENT LIGHTS. Other clues here:

http://www.vestibular.org/understanding-vestibular-disorder/symptoms

Vestibular Symptoms

and

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065801

Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS & SCD - Superior canal dehiscence
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seibertneurolyme
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Hubby does not have true seizures -- EEG's almost always normal or at least do not show seizure spikes.

He recently went back on Depakote. This is a seizure med he took 10 years ago when he first got sick and before he was actually diagnosed. He also added back amantadine which he took back then also. The depakote is extended release this time which seems like that may work better than the 2 times per day dosing he took in the past.

For hubby 2 months of IV Rocephin just kept making the seizure-like spells worse. Since switching to IV clindamycin he is doing some better.

And with the 2 meds above I have been able to reduce his IV Ativan and IV phenergan. Hopefully will switch phenergan to oral this week and then work on switching the ativan in a couple of weeks.

Topamax did not help this time and in the past none of the half dozen or so seizure meds hubby tried did anything.

The other thing I am working on now is trying to help reduce brain inflammation with ginger tea. Hubby can't tolerate arginine and lumbrokinase isn't working very well right now either. Prickly ash tincture in very small doses (5 to 7 drops) also usually helps with bloodflow to the brain. Imitrex helped with headaches some but hubby couldn't tolerate the nausea.

I agree with Keebler that magnesium can be helpful as well.

Don't know what meds you are on -- but you may need to back off meds and increase antioxidants to try to slow down inflammation -- vitamin c, pychnogenol (pine bark extract), CoQ10 etc.

Bea Seibert

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CD57
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Thanks guys!
Interesting about berberine. I have to research this some more but am impressed Keebler.

I'd rather not take a pharmaceutical if at all an option. I'm also looking at Buhner's QUIN protocol for neurotoxins geenerated by microglia in the brain......seems to primarly consist of japanese knotweed (he appears to love this herb). Anyone tried this protocol? Buhner says a protective and REGENERATIVE protocol should be in place before beginning killing sprees........wish I'd known about this 6 yrs ago!

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annxyzz
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Consider lithium OROTATE ( not a drug!! ) the MINERAL . I find it calms the nervous system for me and my daughter - just one tablet . You can adjust your dosage- this is very good for your brain - neuroprotective . Helps me think better too .

I buy advanced research brand . Also , check out magnesium ( I take 3 capsules of NOW brand mag citrate at bedtime ) . Less muscle discomfort , better sleep , and got rid of tendonitis I had as a result of CIPRO . Some people like Natural Calm mag citrate - the NOW brand is cheap and good .

--------------------
annxyzz

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Energy2Heal
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I have this exact same problem (limbic seizures). Horrible.

I was also recently diagnosed with major gut issues, so my LLMD wants me on 10 grams of Glutamine a day. I am taking about 7 grams a day right now with no noticeable increase in brain symptoms.

Keebler - is Berberine HCL the same as Berberine in herbal products? (Oregon Grape Root, Barberry, etc.) I was never able to get Marnie to answer this question.

If so, I assume it has other properties (like strong antifungal action) Also, Berberine HCL is sold to lower blood sugar - so I assume one would have to watch out for that?

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Keebler
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Energy2Heal,

1. glutamine's possibly stimulating effect

Glad that glutamine is doing well for your gut and not causing any anxiety or lowering the seizure threshold -- you may be balancing that out with other things (such as magnesium) you are taking or just lucky.

And, you may not be dealing with seizures or anxiety - for those who do, extra caution is important.

For those without seizures, Glutamine at 7 to 10 grams, is not an excessive dose so that's good and I'm glad that the dose seems to really help your gut. It can be amazing that way and better than other gut helpers by far, when it's tolerated.

For some, even 1/2 a gram can increase startles or irritation, though. Seizures increased both in the way lower threshold and the severity when I tried taking even a low dose.

I tried this several times over several years and always had that same, hairpin trigger seizure response to any little startle. For me, though, nothing seemed to balance it out.

For most, and likely for you - if you do ever sense it's too stimulating, magnesium is the best thing to help balance that out.

Annxyzz's suggestion for lithium OROTATE is also excellent and that will surely help balance it, too.

2. glucose stabilizer

That SOME berberine is sold to lower blood sugar is mainly because that's the niche that company has created. But berberine is SO much more than that.

I was also concerned about this question but am pleased with my outcome.

Yes, indeed, it can help lower blood sugar but it seems to be more balancing for my body.

I don't have a glucose meter but I recall well what those days of hypoglycemic drops felt like but I get absolutely no feeling of hypoglycemia from it.

Of course, read all you can. If you have a glucose meter and need to monitor, do so.
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Keebler
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Energy2Heal,

You also asked:

Is Berberine HCL the same as Berberine in herbal products? (Oregon Grape Root, Barberry, etc.)

It can depend on the product. While Berberine is not said to be systemic by some researchers, I have noticed that it does help some against sound triggered seizures for me.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=121034;p=0

BERBERINE LINKS SET
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[ 02-07-2013, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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With seizures, sometimes people find themselves in hospital. If so, try your very best to have friends and family bring you REAL food.

Here's why:


http://drdavidbrownstein.blogspot.com/2011/07/why-my-mother-refused-to-eat-hospital.html

Friday, July 22, 2011

WHY MY MOTHER REFUSED TO EAT HOSPITAL FOOD

- By Dr. David Brownstein


Categories of chemicals in this group are no better for those in hospital than for anyone else, yet hospital food is swamped in additives such as these:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors
-

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annxyzz
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Just a thought : you may have hyper or over wrought " firing " of neurotransmitters called over excited .. If you have any restlessness , anxiety , or jitteriness, or poor concentration, then consider balancing the chemistry with amino acids .GABA and taurine calme the brain significantly ! They will only work if you take B vitamins and have adequate B levels. They have relaxing effect ob brain chemistry . Another possibility is the mineral lithium orotate , which you can research. It is also NEUROPROTECTIVE , and calms overexcited transmitters. It is not the same as the drug lithium, it is a mineral .
From what I understand excessive firing causes seizures , and the amino acids balance the
chemistry .

You can read about amino acids at a website called "The Way Up From Down" by a Dr Patricia Slagle .

Gaba and taurine have worked in a calming way for me ! Just be sure to take a daily B Vitamin and throw in fish oil.

--------------------
annxyzz

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Keebler
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The heart, blood pressure issues, myelin shealth can also be involved with seizure activity. All that discussed here, too:

-
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=077325;p=0#000000

CARDIAC INFO & SUPPORT

Includes:

Dr. B's SAFE EXERCISE and PT Rehab guidelines,

EXERCISE INTOLERANCE is (partially) explained in the article: "when exercise doesn't work out" (and what we can do about that)

ADRENAL, CARDIAC, MITOCHONDRIA & MYELIN SUPPORT - that all helps movement better work for us

Styles discussed: Pilates; Qi Gong; Tai Chi; Yoga; water; strolling; etc.
-

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Keebler
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Nerve impingement can also trigger seizures.

http://www.upledger.com/content.asp?id=26

UPLEDGER INSTITUTE (particular method)

CranioSacral Therapy

[this type is excellent for those with lyme as there is no sudden twisting of the spine or neck - which should never be done with some who deals with lyme]

and, if the belly nerves (forget the name but some nerve that starts with a "V") are involved as certain can be the case, see their section about VISCERAL MANIPULATION
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[ 11-21-2013, 05:57 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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seibertneurolyme
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I just got a special issue of Life Extension magazine. They have an article on their new supplement called Brain Shield. The main ingredient is gastrodin from the Chinese orchid (gastrodia elata).

Supposedly this supplement improves GABA levels in the brain (which is how Ativan works) and is beneficial for patients with seizures, migraines or diabetic neuropathy. Supposedly it also improves taurine levels and helps with stroke victims by increasing blood flow to the brain.

I think this supplement sounds really promising for its neuroregenerative and neuroprotective benfits.

Bea Seibert

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Keebler
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There are some wonderful herbs that are very helpful.

Gastrodia can be very nice. Best when guided by a LL ND or even a regular ND (as they will know far more than what we have access to - they've had four + years of post-graduate education in this field).


http://www.itmonline.org/

ITM, A Chinese Herbal research website . . . 47 articles from a search here for: Gastrodia. For starters:


http://www.itmonline.org/arts/gastrod.htm

GASTRODIA - by Subhuti Dharmananda, Ph.D.,
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Keebler
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http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2/184-1715542-5541137?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=lyme%2C%20Horowitz

Why Can't I Get Better?: Solving the Mystery of Lyme and Chronic Disease

- by a leading ILADS LLMD - November 2013
-

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Keebler
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http://drhorinouchi.tripod.com/id54.html

Below are two articles on this topic, starting with the best article about seizures I've ever read:

1. Nutritional Approach to Seizures by Dean Ward M.D.

2. Vinpocetine: Cognitive Enhancer's Role Expands to Incontinence and Epilepsy by Kimberly Pryor
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