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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Mild Hyperbaric Treatment (Page 4)

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Author Topic: Mild Hyperbaric Treatment
Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe...

Thanks for sharing your information; it is really valuable. I believe the more we post details about our experience with mHBOT, the more realistic and accurate picture we can get about how it works across personal conditions, protocols, etc.

So, to recap:

-You felt better (less toxic "buzzy" feeling) with your first mHBOT dive after an 18 month break from HBOT, and felt benefit by doing dives twice a week, but couldn't tolerate more frequent sessions, or you would feel more ill.

-In my case, I felt no positive effect for over 50 daily mHBOT dives, but then with continual daily dives, experienced a gradual 2 step forward, one step back pattern that resulted in return of wellness over time.

-Variations in our experience/background include the fact that you had previously done HBOT but stopped 18 months before starting mHBOT, and I had previously done antibiotics, but stopped 5 years before starting mHBOT. Another variable, of course, is the different protocol we used (daily vs.twice/week).

-You also mention knowing someone who has done daily dives for 10 years, for whom it has been "helpful", but they still experience health issues.

-I am currently in contact with several people who have recently started regular mHBOT, and, although their early responses are up and down, they are reporting some very positive changes.

The truth is, nobody knows how many people will reach the level of wellness that I have with mHBOT, and I appreciate that you don't want people to believe that everyone will have the same results, or that this is a "magic cure" for everyone. I have never claimed that, or wanted to raise false hopes, either.

That said, I also don't believe I was just "very lucky", nor do I believe I am completely unique. I believe there is potential here for other people to get well also, and that potential needs to be explored.

We simply don't have enough data to draw conclusions, and unfortunately, with oxygen being un-patentable, we can't hold our collective breath waiting for more research from "Big Pharma". So, like everything else with Lyme, we're left to figure it out ourselves.

I trust that with more people committing to regular mHBOT treatments and reporting their results, a clearer picture will begin to emerge over time...

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JCarlhelp
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I would add that another strategy of HBOT first then MBOT immediately after has not been fully vented, at least know one has mentioned that. I know that Phoiph advocates slow and steady for detox, building immune system etc. My wife is in the process of HBOT for 20-40 treatments and then will immediately switch to MBOT. She is seeing both improvements (joint pain especially) and rough days of what is assumed to be a herxheimer. I will continue to post. It has been my reading experience that HBOT was a very hot topic after the Fife study and lots of people started doing it. I have talked to at least 4 chamber operators in the last few days and some have claimed great results and even said lasting remission. I am a little suspicious of this because HBOT seemed to wane a little attention in the the last 10 years but seems to be popping back up again.
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JCarlhelp
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Here is another interesting piece of information. Byron White of Byron White formulas that are well recognized on this site wrote an article many years ago on MBOT. I contacted his office with the following responses:

1. Am not at liberty to speak for Byron's personal life and what he used but know he advocates for mild hyperbaric.

2. Yes our formulas can be utilized at the same time as using hyperbaric. In fact some people take the formulas 30 min prior to using their MBOT.

Seems that some people use these two in combination. Lots of unanswered questions that only time and further experiences will tell.

I am not a doctor so none of my posts should be taken as any kind of medical advice.

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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, I am really glad you're better but I take issue with your stating beliefs in a persuasive way, when they really are not based on good evidence. "That said, I also don't believe I was just "very lucky", nor do I believe I am completely unique. I believe there is potential here for other people to get well also, and that potential needs to be explored."

That's why I keep pushing back, while keeping in mind I think it's an underutilized and valuable therapy so in that way, it's good you're highlighting it.

JCarl, yes, doing deep dive followed by mhbot, that would have been ideal had both been available to me way back then.

Oh, I forgot to add that I was having debilitating migraines, and mhbot helped. I have had to do a lot of things, though, to handle the lyme induced migraines. I've had to give up beans, drink lots of fermented beverages, get lots of fresh air, avoid too much sugar, and the mhbot--and all those things together have helped the crushing SLYME migraines.

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Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe...

This is a "forum".

Beliefs, theories, opinions, observations, and experiences are encouraged here, even those that may be contrary.

My "beliefs" are based on my experience/observations, just like yours are based on your experience/observations. They just happen to be different. This doesn't make either of our positions less valid or less worthy of expression.

The truth is, neither of our positions are "based on good evidence"...because there is really not enough data at this point to draw conclusions...

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CD57
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Phoiph is right on there being no data. I have spent hours scouring and looking for data; there is none. WE are the data. I for one am so glad that she has posted her experiences and offered to spent much of her own time offering information offline. Thank you Phoiph!
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oxygenbabe
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But Phoiph, what are your beliefs based on?

There are people such as James Johnson a long time ago who did 150 deep dives in a row, and went into remission for quite a while.

Wild Condor on these forums, only believes in monochamber deep dive, and did hundreds of them along with many antibiotis, to recover.

It's not like you're the only one. WHen I did deep dive in Great Barrington for 2 months, there was another gal who did it for probably five or six months, without antibiotics.

But those were all deep dive.

I know of one other person when I first posted about a chamber, noodly doo, bought an mhbot, who got a very good response. I don't think he was nearly as sick as you. This was about ten years ago now. If he stopped for a few weeks, he'd stat to relapse.

Your belief isn't reflected in the experiences out there, where in your case, there is no response for months, and then steady improvement JUST doing a home chamber for these complex tickborne diseases.

YMMV, folks, but I doubt you'll get any reports back as extraordinary as yours--and unusual in that there was no response for so long, and then a response. The issue is, people are spending many thousands of dollars based on hope they'll have a similar response to yours. That's why I'm leavening it with all I've seen heard and experienced myself. HBOT and mHBOT are not new treatments. OTOH, will people be helped? I think so.

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soccermama
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I don't think people are blind or being manipulated. Of course, we are all looking for something that will take us across the finish line.

I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars and owe many, many thousands of dollars still on various treatments. I am now having to think outside the box.

No one knows for sure, what is working because so little research is being done. However, one FACT is known based on the placebo and nocebo effect and that is a person's belief in a treatment is crucial to its success.

Therefore, when someone continually posts a dissenting opinion it can undermine a treatment that may be beneficial.

I think we have the point that mhbot may not cure and that we should not base our opinion on one testimonial. Enough said already.

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Chipster
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I second soccermama in supporting Phoipfs posts.

Hyperbaric and its son MBOT is a mainstream, widely used modality with many conditions that are reimbursable.

As someone new to the site, it is helpful for me personally to read what has really worked for some patients, especially if the treatments are mainstream and relatively safe.

Chipster

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oxygenbabe
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Cautionary opinions from me who has long experience with both forms and knows numerous people who used hbot and mhbot short and longterm is useful when $10,000 or more is at stake.
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Phoiph
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The expense is certainly an issue for most people, so I often help them find alternative ways of accessing a chamber...including:

-Finding quality used equipment that is usually 1/2 to 2/3 of the cost of new equipment

-Passing on a portion of the discount (on new and used equipment) granted to me by the manufacturer (no, I am not a sales rep, nor do I take a cut...the other portion goes into a fund held by the manufacturer to purchase chambers to be used by the community on a donation basis)

-Finding cooperative partners in their vicinity to share costs/use

-Passing on information about creative financing possibilities, through benefactors, the manufacturer, and lenders that provide loans for medical equipment

Also, it must be kept in mind that a quality chamber is an investment that can be resold...

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oxygenbabe
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Why has the manufacturer granted you, a patient, a discount on purchase of all chambers? You mean that you buy the chamber and sell it to a patient, apparently at the same discount? Who can even verify the numbers, then? Even stranger yet, you've obviously talked to them at length, and created this unusual agreement--but you're doing this all anonymously on lymenet?

In fact, I think you would have to have set yourself up as a distributor--though I'm not sure what the legalities are? I can see why they'd benefit (the discount doesn't mean they aren't profiting. If you're selling chambers for them, they're happy).

Can you tell us where the fund is? Who at oxyhealth can verify this, and how do they decide to whom to donate chambers? What is the discount on a new solaris, a new respiro, and a new vitaeris? How large is the fund now, and are they donating it for lyme patients?

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oxygenbabe
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Cooperative partners rarely works out. Someone has to keep the chamber at their place--while others visit--I've not seen that work out very well.

Even used, chambers are expensive.

Selling them is not simple--though it can be done.

I'm trying to sell my oxygen concentrator now and though it has a 3 year warranty, and is very well priced, I've had absolutely no interest in it at all so far, nationwide.

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Phoiph
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The manufacturer has granted me a discount because I have developed a rapport with one of the reps that I coordinate with, and I asked for the discount (to be passed on to the buyer) based on how many people I had referred to them. The rep knows that I became well with one of their chambers, and of my mission to spread the word on mHBOT. It is a win-win for both sides.

I do not buy chambers from them and re-sell to buyers. The transaction is done through the rep, and I handle/receive no money whatsoever. The accounting/fund is also held by the manufacturer through the rep.

The donation of the first chamber will likely be to a clinic that can provide space and supervision; these details have not been completely worked out yet.

I have set up many cooperative partner situations that are working out surprisingly well. The most challenging part is proximity...but when you are working with a Lyme support group, for example, there are usually enough people in need that live close enough to each other.

I have helped a number of people find chambers to buy/sell (no fee); finding a quality used chamber can be more of a challenge than selling one, in my experience.

I know of several people that may be interested in your concentrator, depending on the model, price, etc. Why don't you PM me, with the details?

Also, since I don't post people's personal information, if you PM me, I can give you the rep's contact information that I am coordinating with if you would like to verify my story...

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oxygenbabe
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I am going to leave off posting about oxygen on lymenet for a while.

My final comment is: an anonymous poster, an anonymous rep, a fund nobody on the outside is monitoring, I suggest you get your chamber directly from oxyhealth, or via craigslist. But I don't really care what Phoiph and her rep are doing, or what the money situation is. I can just say, that nobody else has come on here yet to say they are getting *well* too just by mhbot. Some have some improvements. As to be expected, it's often a useful intervention along with all the other stuff people can and must do.

My concentrator is an Integra Sequal analog (little ball goes up and down), reconditioned with a 3 year warranty. Sequal has been bought out by AirSep, but this used to be the preferred one for OxyHealth. I don't want to do this secretly--you can have anybody interested post here or PM me. I only want my costs back, which was $550 to recondition, plus $75 ground shipping anywhere. Thanks. (Why do I have the sneaking suspicion Phoiph won't be forwarding people to me to PM directly? Just a hunch.)

[ 01-29-2014, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: oxygenbabe ]

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CD57
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Phoiph has recently worked with me to find an affordable chamber, it was very creative, I am greatly indebted to her.
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oxygenbabe
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Who knows, CD57, what the real financial arrangements are. We never will. Let's see if *anybody* else who uses Phoiph's protocol reports remission.
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oxygenbabe
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Oh, and those who don't, should post. Nobody should be shy about mixed or negative results. We should know who has bought an mhbot since Phoiph has posted, what their protocol is, and their results. There should be a thread where people can assess. No?
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Phoiph
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/114558?#000015
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Toni L
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We haven't heard from TNT in a while. I wonder how the mHBOT treatments are going. Are you out there TNT?
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lemongirl
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I LOVE my mHBOT!
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S13
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Is it normal to have an irregular heartbeat during and after decompression? Ive never experienced a symptom like this before. I do have a pounding heart which comes and goes for the last 6 months now.

But just today i noticed the irregularity on decompression. My heart seems to stall for a second or so, and it feels a bit funny inside my chest (hard to explain). After this it continues normally.

It kept repeating a few times, and now 15mins after decompression i dont notice it any more. Any thoughts?

Note; in the last few days ive started to focus more on a possible systemic candida. Perhaps that could be related? Oil of Oregano, gluten free diet, lowered carb intake.

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S13
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Strange, just now it happened again a few times. Seems to be triggered when im moving. While im sitting still my heart is ok. So perhaps it is not related to the mhbot decompression?

So could it be the candida then?
Oh yeah, also started taking SF722 3 days a go.

Another sidenote; in the last days ive also experienced more joint crackling/pain and dizziness.

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S13
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I did take a sauna earlier today, about 2 hours before the mHBOT session. Could that together with the altered diet result in shortage of electrolytes?
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Phoiph
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Hi S13...

I'm not sure if it is the same in the Netherlands where you live, but here a doctors prescription is required to buy a new or used chamber/oxygen concentrator from a vendor...so I'm assuming you were medically cleared for mHBOT...

That said, I doubt it is related to hyperbaric itself. I think it is more likely related to the sauna...as it can definitely deplete minerals and electrolytes.

I also don't recommend doing both the chamber and sauna therapies concurrently, especially when just starting treatment. It is a lot for the body to handle, even for a person who is well.

At the very least, consider lengthening the intervals between the 2 treatments as much as possible (without cutting back on your daily mHBOT [Smile] ...

[ 01-31-2014, 01:08 AM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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S13
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Hi phoiph,

no, we dont need a doctors prescription for mhbot here. There is no regulation for it because it is not used that much.
But then again, i should be medically fine, since all doctors in the last year couldnt find anything wrong with me. So medically speaking im "healty".

Yeah i also doubt it was the mHBOT. I have read that candida can mess with your heart, which may be why i have had a pounding heart for almost 6 months now.

What is your opinion on mHBOT and candida? Some say the oxygen can cause candida to thrive?

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oxygenbabe
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S13 I felt the deep dive was fairly suppressive to candida which rebounded badly when I stopped; while the mhbot promoted the candida if I did it daily. Just fyi.

Also--you really should ask a doctor to check the heart and do a holter monitor. Asking someone online in another country if they think the mhbot is responsible for heart issues, isn't the best idea--not for you or for the person answering. They have no idea.

Best of luck.

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Phoiph
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S13...

I agree that if you haven't been checked out or cleared for mHBOT, you should be...

My experience with candida was like all the other opportunistic infections I harbored; it faded over time as my immune system strengthened, and eventually became a non issue...

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S13
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So what kind of checks would they need to do? What is the criteria your doc uses to grant mhbot prescriptions?

Im in a difficult part of my treatment i guess. Treating for bartonella is clearly showing improvement in neurological functions, so i wish very much to continue with the rifampin. But that also means yeast is allowed to endure...

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JCarlhelp
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For regular HBOT the doctor required a chest X-ray, don't know if necessary for MBOT or not.
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oxygenbabe
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There are absolute contraindications and relative contraindications. The chest x-ray is to be sure you don't have pneumothorax I'm pretty sure--you can't pressurize the lungs then. You shouldn't do either one when you have a bad cold or sinus infection as you won't be able to equalize the ears. If you already have cataracts they can ripen faster with hbot, so that would be a relative contraindication (patient and doctor would decide). It would be wise to be seeing a doc knowledgeable in hbot to at least consult with over this, although mhbot is a relatively safe "treatment".
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oxygenbabe
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Oh, and you shouldn't do it right after a tooth filling, you're supposed to wait at least some days, I can't remember how many (that would be deep dive. Not sure if it matters with mhbot). The filling has to settle properly I think.
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S13
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Ok i should be good to go then. No probs with lungs, and my eyes are examined each 6 months.

Today i didnt notice the heart irregularity, but i also didnt took the sauna. So it could be electrolyte shortage due to the sauna / candida diet and an already stressed heart from the infections.

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BBinme
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S13 and lemongirl, I wonder if you could tell us details about your journey so far with mhbot? How long you've been doing it? How you have felt while doing it? Hers reactions. And how you are now? Has it helped? Thank you for elaborating
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S13
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Im only up to 25 dives, so i have just started. While i generally feel im moving in the right direction, ive also started to attack candida with some natural supplements a little over 10 days back. That is giving me a worsening of symptoms now.
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Catgirl
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I used to have horrible vertigo--would HBOT bring that back?

Do people do HBOT while still on meds, or do you have to be off of meds first?

--------------------
--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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JCarlhelp
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I believe that HBOT is more effective when done with antibiotics if you have decided to be on antibiotics. Just an opinion.
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BBinme
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S13, are you also on antibiotics or any other treatment for Lyme/confections??
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S13
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Yeah im still on antibiotics for Bartonella. Mino and Rifampin.
I know that doesnt help the candida at all, but im making progress. Some bartonella symptoms are close to resolving, and my Giemsa bloodstain show less and less bacteria adhering to my RBC's. So im going to continue with bart treatment for at least 3 more months, and then see if i can quit abx all together.

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Phoiph
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I had to quit all antibiotics (pulled my pic line) and formal treatment (except homeopathy) 5 years prior to starting mHBOT due to increasing toxicity, chemical/environmental sensitivity, gut issues, etc. (in essence, I became too ill to continue treatments).

In my case, even though I didn't have a choice, I believe doing mHBOT without antibiotics ended up working to my advantage, as I wasn't continually taking in more substances that required detox.

This is my experience only...others may differ...

[ 10-05-2015, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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BBinme
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S13, how long have you been on mino and rifampin? I believe I also have bartonella, I'm taking septra and zithro currently, I was unable to tolerate rifampin. Also what supplements are you taking for yeast? Think I have issues with it also..
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S13
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Im doing rifampin for 3 months now. The Septra and zithro never worked that great for my Bart (but at that time i also had babs). Rifampin and Levo were the only ones to touch it.

My yeast protocol now consists of:
- Diet (Phoiph has also been very helpful with this and provided some good tips and recipes!)
- Lots of coconut oil
- SF722, 15 caps/day divided in 3 doses
- Lufenuron
- Phellostatin (berberine containing supp)
- Tinospora cordifolia (berberine containing supp)
- Probiotics, VSL3 and Theralac
- Kefir
- Oregano oil
- Now Candida Support

In a few days i will start fluconazole. I will then stop with the berberine herbs, and possibly start with a pure form of berberine. (perhaps the tinospora will be left in, because it has liver regenerative properties, which will be very helpful with the fluconazole and rifampin)
The lufenuron was a bit of a gamble, but did point me in the right direction of candida. I dont think it can cure a systemic candida infection however.

I think when i started doing mHBOT i already had small increase in candida symptoms. Perhaps it is able to deteriorate the candida biofilm? I dont think mHBOT kills the candida though.

[ 02-04-2014, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: S13 ]

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oxygenbabe
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I doubt mhbot "deteriorates" biofilms...
Can you tell me how you did with the lufeneron? I've heard very few reports from actual users. Thanks a lot.

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S13
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Well, at least I didnt die, so thats nice [Wink]

I did get more fatigue and a bit of an emotional/depression kind of herx. After the first dose my leg muscles which normally feel "toxic" fatigued, all of a sudden felt calm and relaxed. I hadnt had that feeling for a long time. But after the 2nd dose (and especially now that im throwing everything i can at it) the toxic/fatigued feeling became worse than ever before.

I find vitamin C to help a lot with the emotional/depression part.

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oxygenbabe
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Hmmm. I had read it stays in your system for weeks, though. Well at least you didn't have a weeks long horrible reaction. I'd try it but am afraid of the length of time it sticks around.
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S13
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Yes it is supposed to stay in your system for a few weeks. But even Sarah Vaughter states:
"More serious semi-systemic Candidiases may need multiple treatments and are at least temporarily improved"

Temporary improvement is not a cure. But in my opinion it is always good to attack from different angles at the same time.

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Phoiph
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S13...you asked, "...What is your opinion on mHBOT and candida? Some say the oxygen can cause candida to thrive?..."

Here's a quote from "The Textbook of Hyperbaric Medicine"; K.K.Jain regarding Candida Albicans and HBO:

"...Effect of HBO treatment and antifungal agents on Candida albicans has been examined in vitro. There was no response to increased atmospheric pressure alone, but addition of 100% oxygen under pressure led to growth inhibition of p02 of 900mmHG and killing of organisms at a pO2 value of 1800 mmHg. Clinical use of HBO for this infection and a study of the interaction of HBO with antifungal agents has been suggested by but not tested clinically..."

So...even though the oxygen saturation levels shown to inhibit or kill candida in this study are higher than those reached by use of ordinary mHBOT or HBOT therapy in vivo, the study at least suggests that candida is not promoted by these therapies either...

The text also mentions that HBO improves the immune mechanism of the body, including phagocytosis (which is necessary for the body to manage candida and other infections)...

It also assists in detoxing the byproducts...

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S13
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So how many ATA does a pO2 of 900mmHG correspond to?
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S13
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Ah wait I found this:

 -

So 1.3ATA = 840mmHg paO2

So to get to 1800mmHg killing levels, you need at least 2.5ATA.
For 900mmHg inhibition levels you need 1.375ATA. That is actually not that far from 1.3ATA mHBOT. I would assume that even if it is not inhibiting candida at 1.3ATA, it would at least slow down the growth.

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Phoiph
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Actually, there are a couple of other factors that affect amount of 02 that ultimately dissolves into the tissues...

To use a quote from the Austin study:

"...if the patient were placed in a hyperbaric chamber and the pressure increased to 2.36 atmospheres, absolute (ata), the total barometric pressure would be 1794 mm Hg. If the patient were then to breathe pure oxygen the inspired partial pressure of oxygen would be 1794 mm Hg. Inspired oxygen is diluted by carbon dioxide and water vapor in the alveoli, so that the arterial blood would be exposed to an oxygen partial pressure of approximately 1700-mm Hg, and the tissue oxygen would be between 200 and 300 mm Hg...

Also, with mHBOT using a 10LPM 20PSI 02 concentrator, you will be breathing approximately +60% oxygen, rather than 100% as in the above reference...

That said, at least it wouldn't be likely increase growth, and the increased efficiency of the immune system would have a positive effect...

As I mentioned, in my case, candida became a non-issue as I became well with mHBOT...

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soccermama
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I have not done any other research but the Lyme MD posted this on July 22, 2013. He was talking about biofilms and hyperbaric.

"Hyperbaric therapy, in addition to producing reactive oxygen species, also produces reactive nitrogen species. One of these products is nitric oxide.

The effects of this compound are complex and protean with literature that goes on forever. But one demonstrated effect is the dispersal of biofilms. This may be of additional benefit."

So, maybe it has an effect on biofilms. If it truly does, then hbot may dissolve the biofilm and allow the medicine to get to it. Wouldn't that be awesome.

Another thought is that mhbot works on many, many levels. Maybe its mechanism isn't killing like antibiotics or antimicrobials.

Maybe, its mechanism is supporting and healing the body. Keeping the detox pathways open etc.

As a result, the body does not have to work on repairing etc. and has the resources to actually attack.

Just a thought.

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Phoiph
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Agreed, Soccermama!

Although mHBOT is also antimicrobial, healing is about so much more than just "killing bugs"...

In my opinion/experience, doing consistent mHBOT over time is what allows these multi-level healing/repair processes to take place...

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oxygenbabe
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It may promote candida simply the way antibiotics do, by killing off competitors. In this case, all the anaerobes, and possibly at higher pressures in clinics, some of the microaerophilic ones.
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Phoiph
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The difference being that antibiotics and hypoxia suppress the immune system, whereas HBO improves it, and good immune function is necessary to keep opportunistic organisms in check.

Probiotic supplements and a diet that includes probiotic-rich fermented foods are also important...

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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, after I finished doing two months of deep dive I had a terrible candida flare, with frequent diarrhea on eating any carbs. It was very unpleasant.

During the deep dive, I didn't have it.

I found that if I tried to do mild hbot daily, I got what felt like yeast symptoms--chills, itchy, fluey and did not feel good. Can't prove it was yeast though because I quickly dropped it to twice a week. Wasn't going to continue with whatever flare it was causing, which did not feel like lyme herxes at all.

That's my experience, and I always did probiotics. If people are experiencing candida flares during hbot, then that's what they are experiencing. There are always side effects to every treatment.

My point was not that they are one and the same (antibiotics). My point was that you are doing something artificial, especially with deep dive (which is what you cited from hyperbaric medicine in regards to candida growth) that will alter your flora. Deep dive definitely kills off anaerobes. Mild, maybe, who knows.

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oxygenbabe
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Hyperbaric is very useful. It is a great adjunctive therapy. It is not for everybody. It is not a panacea. It is not an unalloyed good. It is not without side effects.
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levity101
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This has been a very informative thread--and am watching the "Calling all Mild Hyperbaric users" thread as well.

Am considering this treatment. (Phoiph, if you are around, I just sent you a PM.)

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Phoiph
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quote:
Originally posted by soccermama:
I have not done any other research but the Lyme MD posted this on July 22, 2013. He was talking about biofilms and hyperbaric.

"Hyperbaric therapy, in addition to producing reactive oxygen species, also produces reactive nitrogen species. One of these products is nitric oxide.

The effects of this compound are complex and protean with literature that goes on forever. But one demonstrated effect is the dispersal of biofilms. This may be of additional benefit."

So, maybe it has an effect on biofilms. If it truly does, then hbot may dissolve the biofilm and allow the medicine to get to it. Wouldn't that be awesome.

Another thought is that mhbot works on many, many levels. Maybe its mechanism isn't killing like antibiotics or antimicrobials.

Maybe, its mechanism is supporting and healing the body. Keeping the detox pathways open etc.

As a result, the body does not have to work on repairing etc. and has the resources to actually attack.

Just a thought.

Soccermama...

Will W. (the cytologist who has recently started posting) shared a technical article with me on how LOW oxygen keeps antibiotics (and possibly the immune system) from penetrating biofilms:

http://aac.asm.org/content/48/7/2659.short

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soccermama
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Great link. I had to read it several times but I think it validates what Lyme MD has said.

That is great because biofilms are a huge problem.

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Marnie
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I wonder if HBOT primarily hits the CWD form of Bb which maybe actually the hardest form to rid.

I also suspect barometric *pressure changes* (the aches and pains many of us old folks experience when a storm is approaching) may also impact some pathogens...setting up a "herx"/ inflammatory response as a *result of* the die-off.

It might not be a good idea to go scuba diving if you have lyme.

Persons who live at higher altitudes (less oxygen) sometimes have a tougher time if they have lyme, others do not.

Here is one link:

http://www.backpacker.com/community/ask_buck/376

Going way back...a long time ago we talked about patients with "arthritis" going into deep caves for relief i.e., radon exposure!

Go here and scroll down to conclusion:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2477672/

There are various areas around the country that have these supposedly "healing caves", here's one:

http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/2143

Then there is a "flip side" i.e., healing warm mineral springs.

One of the best in the world is near me, but is closed because the city and county both own it and they can't agree on what to do with it. For shame on them!!!

It is called Warm Mineral Springs in Venice, Florida. It is on YouTube (videos when it was open a year ago).

All I can say is after a few hours floating in that mineral rich sink hole = feel FANTASTIC and you don't want to wash off your skin, it feels like a baby's skin.

Our guests (all ages) LOVED to go there!

Back to HBOT! Sorry...I have a tendency to go off track ;-)

HBOT is normally only "approved" (insurance covered) for treating "the bends" (scuba divers coming up too fast) and for gas gangrene (skin dying).

HBOT is also a treatment for clostridial myositis.

Clostridia ***lack superoxide dismutase***, making them incapable of surviving in the oxygen-rich environment created within a hyperbaric chamber. This inhibits clostridial growth, exotoxin production, and exotoxin binding to host tissues.

In horses, that infection can follow *IM injections* of...Ivermectin ( antiparasitic) and it is fatal.

That same drug is "Heartguard" for our dogs to prevent heartworms.

Which makes me wonder...is HBOT clearing some of Bb's foot soldiers...compatriots? Making it easier to rid #1?

Bottom line: HBOT maybe working on multiple levels from different aspects than we are currently aware of.

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JCarlhelp
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Did/does anyone use a cyst buster like Flagyl or Tindamax while doing any form of oxygen treatment. Any thoughts on this?
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S13
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Ouch, again having problems with my heart. It skips and i get that butterfly feeling in my stomach for just a second or so.

Last time i got it after i had taken a sauna and was doing mHBOT decompression. But this time it had nothing to do with that at all! I havent taken a sauna since, i make sure i stay hydrated, and my electrolytes should be fine too. I still need to do mhbot in a few hours.

3 days a go I started diflucan which gave me a worsening of some symptoms (especially today i feel like cr*p). So having this heart problem now also, makes me think it is caused by a candida (die-off) toxin.

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soccermama
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Marnie, interesting thoughts. We could use your research techniques in this area.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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spinning122
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quote:
Originally posted by JCarlhelp:
Did/does anyone use a cyst buster like Flagyl or Tindamax while doing any form of oxygen treatment. Any thoughts on this?

I'm currently using Tindamax with mHBOT. I'd love to try out Will's protocol with mHBOT though I don't know how I'll be able to convince my doc to prescribe so many antibiotics at once.
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soccermama
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Here is a testimonial from Sara's Garden near Toledo, Ohio. The clinic is non-profit. I am not sure how much treatments cost but the mission is to provide HBOT affordably.

There are two multi-chambers and it is not mhbot.

http://sarasgarden.org/hbotandlyme/

Anyone in the northern Ohio area should check out this clinic.

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oxygenbabe
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I sold my Integra Sequal (to a guy who needs it for his Cpap).
I am hearing that they are out of business, and that the quality of the build of the Sequal is way better than the AirSep Intensity 10, which is what is available now. I was told by one guy that you should set it at 8, not 10, as it can't handle the chamber pressure. I was told by another guy that if you set it less than 10 you won't get a therapeutic session.
Phoiph and others what do you hear. They arent making Sequal anymore, because AirSep bought them out and does not want to make two. I was also told the way the Sequal was built is too expensive for this day and age, not enough profit.

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Phoiph
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I am aware that Sequal was bought out by Air Sep, and the Sequal Integra 10 has been discontinued.

I have both an Air Sep 10 New Life Intensity and a Sequal 10 Integra.

I greatly prefer the the Air Sep New Life Intensity to the Sequal Integra, because although they both offer 10 LPM air flow (liters per minute), the Air Sep has a PSI (pounds per square inch) of 20, whereas the Sequal has a PSI of 7.5.

I was advised that the Sequal should be set at 10 LPM oxygen flow prior to inflating the chamber, and then left at this setting even if the LPM drops due to the backpressure of the chamber as it fills. If the oxygen flow is set too high on this unit when using it with a hyperbaric chamber, it has to work too hard to compensate for the backflow, and the oxygen purity will decrease as a result.

An Airsep should be set no higher than 8.5 LPM when using a chamber, otherwise the backpressure will cause it to go into an oxygen "on demand" mode.

I recently had a Sequal serviced, and asked the opinion of a respiratory therapist there who owns the shop...he agreed that the Air Sep is a superior unit.

I have a source for the Airsep 10 New Life Intensity ...$1350 new, free shipping...this is the best price I have come across.

[ 05-02-2014, 03:09 AM: Message edited by: Phoiph ]

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oxygenbabe
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Vitality Medical offers the AirSep Intensity 10 with digital oxygen monitor for $1335 plus $15 shipping in USA. They are in Utah. No need to be secretive about the source, Phoiph.

I heard just the opposite. Sequal is better built and doesn't heat up nearly as much. But it's too expensive to do those quality builds these days.

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oxygenbabe
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Phoiph, you had "a" Sequal serviced, or "your" Sequal serviced. Are you stocking up on used concentrator to sell with your discount package?
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Phoiph
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Oxygenbabe,

FYI, I had "a" Sequal (not mine) serviced as a favor for someone who was too ill to lift and transport it themselves...

Your ongoing accusations are unfounded. As I have explained to you, I do not sell chambers, concentrators, or "packages". I OFFERED YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO VERIFY THIS, BUT YOU REFUSED...

These negative exchanges are inappropriate and not helpful for anyone on the forum...

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JCarlhelp
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Agree, I believe a moderator stated earlier that their is no indication that anyone is attempting to profit from this thread. I am more interested in getting my family better and we need data from users attempting MBOT as enough time is given.
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jarjar
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I have a friend from many years ago that recovered from lyme with a home hyperbaric unit. At that time the idea of paying well over 10,000.00 just to see if I could replicate his results seemed unrealistic.

I should say I participated in one of Fife's studies at TAMU and felt an oxygen buzz for a few hours after each treatment and my bloodwork came back better. It was a CFS study and not a lyme study as I was misdiagnosed at the time. So the whole idea of having access to a more affordable used unit to use every day has my interest.

With that being said it's geting very tiring to see Oxy constantly attacking Phoiph at every twist and turn. I was glad you made your point Oxy at first that your results were not the same as Phoiph as we need to hear both sides of the story. At this point you have taken it way beyond that.

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oxygenbabe
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Maybe I'll turn out to be right.
At this point, I guess I'll have to go investigate, which is not hard for me to do. I've let sleeping dogs lie until now.
Engaging with Phoiph directly will prove nothing to me (she wanted me to contact her by PM because she said some folks might buy my concentrator, and I said she could have them contact me directly, not surprising that nobody did.)

My original point here is that the Sequal is a better machine, it's sad that it isn't being made anymore.

I also have given everybody, rather than saying "I have a source" which requires them to contact me privately!! for the best price (which makes me wonder, and this should not be an attack, but it makes me wonder about comissions from this source, or otherwise, just list the source!) the best price in USA, and any of you can just buy it directly from Vitality Medical. I have no problem being transparent, rather than an unnamed "source". I also know where you can get reconditioned Sequal for $650 and a two year warranty with free shipping both ways if it needs repairs (according to a doctor friend of mine). If anybody is interested, I'll post the source HERE, openly.

How is that not helpful, and open, and transparent? Why claim a source, but you have to contact me by PM!?!?!

Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
jarjar
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I can honestly say I talked with a seller yesterday and he said go with Air Sep over Sequal. So it's okay if you prefer Sequal there is no need for anyone to be "right" or "wrong".

As far as Phoiph asking to pm you over a business transaction, I would have done the same thing. I don't want to read all the details of someone selling something on lymenet nor do most. I would have been grateful if someone offered to help me out and would have happily used pm to discuss things nobody is interested in reading on a public board.

I inquired with Phoip about a used chamber and the only thing she has access to at the moment are small chambers so she offered to help me look at the private market such as craigslist if I was too sick to research it on my own. I as well as most of the other posters on this thread don't consider her to be the shady person you imply she is.

Posts: 796 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Robin123
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My understanding, from having communicated with Phoiph, is that she is not selling anything. Everyone knows that rule here and needs to abide by it on this site.
Posts: 11975 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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