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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Trump Lays Groundwork to Stop Mandatory Vaccination

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Author Topic: Trump Lays Groundwork to Stop Mandatory Vaccination
TF
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See this link:

http://yournewswire.com/trump-ban-mandatory-vaccinations/

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jarjar
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I saw this coming when he appointed Robert Kennedy Jr. to chair a new commission on vaccines. Kennedy has already uncovered some corrupt studies.

I had a tetanus shot within a couple months of coming down with lyme. At the time I didn't think anything of it. Recently I read where a Japanese researcher was trying to solve why so many people were coming down with lyme after tetanus and hepatitis vaccines. This was during the period I became ill. He was declined money to research it from government.

Same is happening with some that get HPV vaccine.
http://whatislyme.com/new-research-gardasil-and-bartonella/

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Christopher J
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I like him anyway. Now I like him double! :-P His anti establishment first-instinct is something pretty impressive. A lot of politicians start with a lot of rhetoric but can't make that anti establishment decision when its crunch time and they have a bill or a policy. They choose moderation. At crunch time, he consistently does the opposite of that, he goes the other way, with his gut almost instinctually. That is refreshing.
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Lymetoo
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That would be wonderful.

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oops!
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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The credibility of this website is in question. I can find no journalism experience / history for the editor - nearly nothing comes up in a formal search of the name -- and there's not much of a staff for writers, no "about us" page, etc.

While this story about vaccines may be appealing to some for reasons that I do "get" - and recently there was a division made up for religious "rights" - and RFK, Jr. had been said to be considered for a vaccine safety group and DJT has mentioned vaccine issues in times past . . .

This article does not hold water as being factually accurate.

I think this is a "fake news" website or, at the very least, another version of supermarket tabloids:

Some of the headlines on their main news page right now:

[First, this is a big lie. Chemical weapons were proven years ago. I have followed events in Syria very closely for years. This headline is a lie - and the others are so ridiculous I don't know who would believe them.

I did not check out the "crap" course at Harvard but unless it's with health education and the actual study of bowel issues, I'm sure they don't have a throw a way course.]

the headlines this "news" website is spinning:

[French President] Macron: We Lied About Syria Having Chemical Weapons


Science/Environment: “Zombies Are Real” – Scientists Discover Genes Remain Active After Death

Conspiracies: Time Traveller Who Passed Polygraph Test, Says Trump Will Be Re-elected In 2020

California Gov. Jerry Brown Bans ‘Racist’ National Anthem At Schools

Harvard University Offers Course On Crap In French Literature

[A nice, very popular & talented singer] Member Of Satanic Pedophile Cult, Says Sister

[A different very popular & talented singer said to be] ‘Illuminati’ Music Executives Murdered Prince
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Christopher J
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I will agree after looking into it that it is a bit sensationalised and it's drawing what it feels is a logical outgrowth of something that did happen.

It is correct in that for the first time, there is a new division in HHS (Health and Human Services) called the Office of Conscience and Religious Freedom.

That by itself is actually a very big deal because it codifies into HHS the fact that conscience objections have to be considered.

Now they are speculating in the article that this move presages a positive environment for concience objections to vaccines. It is a fair interpretation, but it is speculation.

Now if you combine that with the President's personal beliefs (we know he's at the minimum suspicious of vaccines) and the general attitude of deregulation of the entire administration, I think its fair to say that the Federal government is on the aggregate more positive for anti vaccers than ever before.

But ultimately the Federal Govt has no say (nor should it) in state health board decisions on immunization requirements. You have to fight that fight at your state level. We can say that atleast the federal governmemt isn't going to force the states to do that but many still will

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 03-06-2019, 07:30 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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jarjar
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Keebler perhaps this will nelp you as I found many stories today discussing this.

http://vaxxter.com/trump-may-have-just-put-dagger-in-mandatory-vaccine-laws/

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Charlie Fitzgerald
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All are conspiratorial sites, you guy's can't recognize this, read the other articles on them.

http://yournewswire.com/justin-timberlake-illuminati-prince/

I very much keep an open mind to some of these things, but take them with a grain of salt.

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jarjar
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Good grief people it is listed on official government web sites
https://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2018/01/18/hhs-ocr-announces-new-conscience-and-religious-freedom-division.html

You can search it and find Washington Post, ABC and other mainstream outlets reported on it.

The link below was written by an attorney very active in Autism and co wrote a book many will recognize The Plague

http://bolenreport.com/kent-heckenlively-jd/

http://bolenreport.com/president-trump-drops-nuclear-bomb-vaccine-mandates/

[ 02-16-2018, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: jarjar ]

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Nula
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Trump is a dangerous madman.

(Irrespective of the fact that some Lyme patients might be happy about him wanting to stop mandatory vaccination.)

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I appreciate all your replies. If it takes me a while to respond, it is either because I'm too sick or because I am unable to log in. From European servers, Lymenet is very frequently inaccessible for days at a time ...

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Bartenderbonnie
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Regardless what political party you belong to, you vote for the candidate that best represents your views. Your choice is based on the belief that the candidate is true to his/her word.

Trump, the candidate stated " Children recieve far too many vaccines too quickly in early childhood. Therefore, I am creating a Commission of Vaccines, to address many, many parents concerns on this matter,"

It appears Trump has abandoned plans to investigate the link between childhood immunization sand autism.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/21/trump-vaccination-safety-commission-robert-kennedy-autism

It was 1 year ago this week, that Senator Robert Kennedy told reporters he had met many times with Trump and had been asked to chair a commission to review vaccine safety.

Last week Senator Kennedy gave an update on the progress of the commission. "I would say there's zero progress. We were told Trump wanted to meet directly with us. Not only did that not happen, they've cut off communication with people who care about this issue. This administration has decided to go in another direction."

"I've seen a tremendous deflation among a community of parents and children's health advocates across the country who believed the promises Trump made during the campaign , who put faith in him and now are feeling enormous betrayal and disappointment. Claims of high-level corruption within the administration to the pharmaceutical industry historically blocks research into vaccine safety."

Other Trump betrayals towards the anti-vaccine movement;

The Trump appointment of Scott Gottlieb as the FDA commissioner, who has strong ties to the pharmaceutical industry.

The Trump appointment of recently disgraced CDC Director Dr Brenda Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald has been pro-vaccine her entire career. She submitted her resignation over conflict of interest, which involved purchases of stocks in tobacco companies, pharmaceuticals companies, health insurance companies, and contributions from soda company makers. She lasted just 6 months on her appointment to the CDC.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/health/cdc-director-fitzgerald-resigns-bn/index.html

The Trump appointment of Tom Price to the Health and Human Services Secretary. Price was against pre-existing conditions ( remember that fiasco?), opposed Medicare and offered training to doctors on how to opt out, opposed mental health and traumatic brain injury programs, opposed funding to planned parenthood for women's reproductive health, refused to address the high cost of prescription medicines, and championed tighter limits on medical malpractice against doctors.

Price lasted just 7 months in his Trump appointed position. He resigned amidst allegations of extensive use of taxpayer funded trips on jets. There were also ethic complaints, conflict of interest, and abuse of power over private investments he made while in the House of Representatives. He sponsored bills which would have profited himself and a company with whom he owned their stock, an Australian biomedical firm. He accepted over 700.000$ from physicians, hospitals, drug companies, and health insurers.

Trump has also called for large reductions in funding to the NIH, HHI, CDC and its sister agency, the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry, which investigates environmental health hazards.

Trump is a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he does not personally hold. A Hypocrite.

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jarjar
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I do not like Trump either nor most of his cabinet members but let's not turn this into a political thread or good chance it will be deleted.

The establishment of the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division in the Health and Human Services Office for Civil Rights is a win for all of us.

[ 02-25-2018, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: jarjar ]

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Keebler
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It's not legislation, though. It was a comment. That's about where it landed and stayed. All kinds of comments are put out there one day and all is changed with the next wind.

The pharmaceutical money that flows to D.C. will be a major stumbling block.

One quasi-sort-of, maybe appointment that got a lot of guff from others all about. [Sigh, as RFK, Jr. does know what he's talking about but his work may be better appreciated and used in a different capacity through organizations below].

The more the public becomes educated about the ingredients in vaccines, the better. Action through education.

Some of the organizations here are working for better education / better "laws" that protect a person's choice in this matter. More detail in the organization links here.

Share with others, too.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set

Key organizations working for us.
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jarjar
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Agree Keebler poor choice of words calling it legislation. I was in a hurry to get out the door.

If Keith Heckenlively, a medical malpractice attorney who is very active with autism is excited about it I am too. Here is part of the link I posted above.

With the establishment on Thursday of the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division in the Health and Human Services (HHS) Office for Civil Rights, Trump has laid the groundwork to smash every single vaccine mandate as well as turn BIG PHARMA into little pharma.
Don’t think this new division of Conscience and Religious Freedom at HHS is a big deal?

THINK AGAIN. It gives many different groups a BIG TENT under which to fight. I think it is time that Christians and Libertarians, and people of other religious faiths realize that we have a COMMON INTEREST in fighting against a FASCIST HEALTH ESTABLISHMENT.

[ 02-25-2018, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: jarjar ]

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Keebler
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I agree that we should all have choice regarding any medication we take. Sadly, vaccines are not determined to be pharmaceutical medicines but, rather "biologics" and that also complicates matters.

While the terms of this new division might be a sort of loop-hole it's not so clear cut.

This "big tent" is not legislation. It's a Division. The terms of actions this division - or this new "declaration" is supposed to "defend" are so broad, fuzzy & vague that anyone can claim just about anything is their religious - or moral - "code" to justify just about any action.

Regarding vaccines, though, those who want 100 % forced compliance could argue that their religious and moral points are more important than the individual's.
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Christopher J
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So really they can't force you to vaccinate as long as you abandon the one area they use to enforce it: public schools. So that's an angle you can look at especially if you're of the opinion which I have that public schools don't educate anyone anymore.
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Keebler
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Sadly, even for those who are home schooled, to participate in some youth activities, social, athletic groups connected with school districts, "rules" can spill over.

Nursing homes, too, are an issue with language not always as clear and with some strong armed tactics. Varies by state.

Hospitals push vaccines the first day of every person's admission - regardless of reason for admission.. A person can decline but the push can be very sturdy.

For births, the very first day of an infant's life, it's procedure to give them the Hep-B vaccine. And that's just for starters.

Some doctors refuse patients who don't vaccinate, too, regardless of the patients' ages.
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TrekCoord
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At every appointment I have with the VA I am asked if I want the flu vaccine. There is no singular opt out for any veteran using the VA medical system.

I have asked repeatedly for it to be on my permanent record only to be told there is nowhere to mark it.

So every time they ask if I want a flu shot I tell them I have several medical issues directly related to herbicide exposure (then I list them) and then I ask, "Don't you think the government has experimented on me enough?"

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I still have a good time wherever I go!

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Brussels
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As for homeschooling, not all families have the luck and chance to do that for lack of means (when both parents have to work, for example).

Plus, for the more advanced classes, older children, the task can become overwhelming, specially if you have a lyme brain.

So homeschooling is not a solution for all, and certainly not THE solution for those who don't want to vaccinate children.

Homeschooling is a way of life.

I had partially homeschooled my child, because of language (as she spoke French, not German at home).

as for vaccines, I gave my child all vaccines UNTIL I realized that all her food allergies and a lot of her weak immunity could have had started DUE to vaccines.

Then I stopped, but the damage was already done, as she got all the vaccines until 2 years of age (the age babies are more vulnerable).

Here in France, as I posted in the other thread, THERE IS NO EXCUSE: vaccines are compulsory. They say 11 vaccines are compulsory, but that means MORE THAN 70 strains of pathogens/ shots that became compulsory.

They do NOT ACCEPT any religious excuses, any excuse, only medical.

But the government sent a message to MDs: if they find out the medical exemption was not good, MDs have to pay heavy fines.

Religious or moral exemptions can simply be wiped off in the US too, like they already did in FRANCE.

If you watched the Truth about Vaccines, you'll see that your government has CLEAR plans to make vaccines compulsory in all states, and end up with choice.

And that is as soon as 2020!!


Plus they have clear plans to include more and more ADULT vaccines in the plan, with a lot of punishments.

In France, they are planning CAREFULLY which sanctions they will give. To withdraw the children from parental care and apply many thousands of euro of fines is ALREADY on place.

They are now preparing to implement a MORE strict punishment schedule for NON vaccinated kids to prevent them to use the public services: creche, preschool, schools, clubs, etc.

In Italy, I haven't followed all details, but I wonder if it's not already like in France, meaning, compulsory for every child, no excuses.

There can't be compulsory vaccinations.

This is a crime, comparable to FORCED MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS done in prisoners in times of war by the Nazis and the Japanese.

It's EXACTLY THAT: FORCED medical procedures - no one denies injecting liquids that were many times contaminated in the past by Simian viruses and other viruses - is a MEDICAL procedure that can go very wrong, even though vaccines are not labelled as medicine.

I hope something positive come out in the US.

We in Europe, are like sheep: we follow what the US does, as though the US were a great model to follow.

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Robin123
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People are fighting back here.
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Beverly
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I don’t understand how they can impose mandatory vaccination when we are supposed to be living in a free country.
The dtap made me very ill, except I didn’t know it at the time.

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jarjar
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In regards to schools forcing vaccinations. From a post I linked to above.

Here’s why this is such a BIG DEAL.

The House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy (R – California) is one of the people who worked on this project. Do you think he is unaware of the draconian mandatory vaccine law in California which took away religious and philosophical (conscience) exemptions?

This new division at HHS is a HOME RUN for all those who believe in HEALTH FREEDOM.

In a press release put out on Thursday by the HHS Office for Civil Rights, Director Roger Severino said,

“Law protecting religious freedom and conscience rights are just empty words on paper if they aren’t enforced. No one should be forced to choose between helping sick people and living by one’s deepest moral or religious convictions, and the new division will help guarantee that victims of unlawful discrimination find justice. For too long, governments big and small have treated conscience claims with hostility instead of protection, but change is coming and it begins here and now.”

In an article for TownHall, House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy was very explicit.

“In the past this office sent the message, now is not the time for freedom, it is time for you to conform. What a difference one year makes.”

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Keebler
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What this new "religious & moral division" is really about:

It's important to know that this came about mostly over two issues:

1. Birth control refusal both through insurance policy denials and in physical stores not selling it. It also allows doctors the "freedom" to deny prescribing it.

&

2. refusal of store owners to sell wedding cakes (or anything else) to gay couples. It lays the groundwork for much wider refusal of service to whole groups that the owners just might not like.

In both cases, it's not so much about allowing for "Law protecting religious freedom and conscience rights" as taking away rights of others over the corporate "moral" stance.

No where in anyone's minds was the vaccine issue. And those who think this will allow personal freedom choose to NOT take vaccines could be in for a sad surprise.

This entire idea is about those with power of business to bully. If vaccines are brought into this by a challenge, the vaccine companies will win for their "moral" rights.

This all transpired to mainly allow employers in their health insurance policies to block birth control pills from employees.

As well, also pharmacists or even pharmacies that simply do not believe women have the right to birth control can refuse to even stock it, to even sell it.

This is a very bad move for the women, and for men and families who love them - that women will be allowed to be discriminated against for medical prescriptions for their health - and birth control pills are not just for birth control. They also regulate their periods to some degree.

Many women with endometriosis are in terrible pain and the pill allows them less pain and better ability to work, whether in business or at home . . . and even for girls and teens to be able to go do school). To deny them access to this pharmaceutical is a terrible infliction of pain.

Also remember the cry of those who favor this action that if women just refused sexual advances, that's enough birth control. Well, in a loving relationship, women should still be able to choose their physical & medical needs.

Secondly, not all intimate "relationships" are love. It's important to know that rape is a major concern - daily - for many young teens and women of all ages. They deserve access to birth control pills, too.

Often, it's not safe for the rape victim to go to authorities, especially when the rape is repeated by a family member.

Anyone who thinks that birth control is all about fun and games and that it should never be allowed (as the makers of "religious & moral" division do, are in the dark.

It's not like all doctors will take the "moral" "highground" and refuse to prescribe it nor that all pharmacists and pharmacies will demand to not sell it . . . or even that all insurance companies will refuse it in the list of pharmaceutical covered.

But not every teen with endometriosis can just navigate how to access it. Even women can't just change jobs to have the kind of insurance that will include it with just a copay.

the cost on its own without insurance coverage will be prohibitive for many. That some pharmacies can say "no" - well, some women can't just travel miles and miles to find one that will honor a prescription. Not all locales have all the options around the corner.
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Christopher J
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Oh come on. You don't have a right for your employer to cover anything. It is a right you do not have, period.

My insurance doesn't cover my Lyme doctor. Do I throw a hissy fit and act like I have some right to it being included? No, I pay out of pocket.

You can buy your birth control pills out the ying yang for your supposed 'endometriosis', just pay for it. You dont have any right to make your employer pay for it.

And on your supposed evil pharmacists with religious beliefs, I had to laugh. For a lot of my Lyme meds, you can't get them at every pharmacy. Also not a right you have. You go find one who does.

It is not the job of the world to subsidize your lifestyle. Not everybody sells everything you want to buy, and not every company covers everything in their insurance.
(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 03-06-2019, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Keebler
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". . . supposed 'endometriosis' . . . '? wow. it you even had one nightmare with this kind of pain, and this pain is simply unbearable to the max for about a full week out of every four,

it might be clearer just how important this is as a pharmaceutical and that it should be covered with the same kind of co-pay as other pharmaceuticals are.

Men's little blue sex pills are covered by insurance. So, the discrimination is not about sex. It's okay for men to get sex pills (viagra & the like) through their employee insurance plan because ED is a physical matter.

Birth control pills are also for physical matters - for a variety of reasons. It should be no employer or pharmacy or business owner's right to tell a girl or women that female organs are to be controlled not by the girl or woman herself with a doctor's guidance, but by the corporation.

This new division allows for discrimination against girls and women an under the name of religion and morals. That's one of the two reasons this division was invented.
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Christopher J
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
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". . . supposed 'endometriosis' . . . '? wow. it you even had one nightmare with this kind of pain, it might be clearer just how important this is as a pharmaceutical and that it should be covered with the same kind of co-pay as other pharmaceuticals are.

Men's little blue sex pills are covered by insurance. So, the discrimination is not about sex. It's okay for men to get sex pills through their employee insurance plan but not for women to obtain prescriptions for their bodily health?

This new division allows for discrimination against girls and women an under the name of religion and morals.
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What 'discrimination'? Heh don't throw around words when they have nothing to do with the topic. It is not discrimination when your employer does not cover something with their insurance. They dont cover many things, and really it is discrimination for you to force someone to cover something they have religious beliefs against. If you dont like it, get different insurance or budget and pay out of pocket. You have a right to buy or do just about anything in America, you don't have a right to make other people pay for it.
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Keebler
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An employer's religious beliefs should never be any more important than those of the employees. Why all of the sudden is the health & prescription needs of a girl's or woman's uterus the concern of anyone's boss?

That's what this new "moral" police division is encompassing. This new division is not at all about vaccine freedom. It's really about curtaining freedoms.
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Christopher J
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
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An employer's religious beliefs should never be any more important than those of the employees. Everyone is supposed to have equal rights here.

And, this is a physical matter that, someone, has been turned on its head into a "religious" one.
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I don't even know what this means. You have no rights as an employee for your employer provided health insurance to cover ANYTHING. You are inventing fake rights, and then presupposing they are being taken away.

Have you ever actually had an employer provided health insurance? I ask somewhat sarcastically as you have this doe in the headlights type attitude.

Newsflash they dont cover many things, they dont cover all medications, and they only provide partial coverage or no coverage for many things.

Thats simply because when your employer is paying for something for you, they can make restrictions because you dont have any inherent right to have it, it is a benefit

(breaking up the post for easier reading for many here)

[ 03-06-2019, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Robin123 ]

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Keebler
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The point is that all this glee, thinking this new division will be in favor of individual choice regarding vaccine, it's not likely to happen at all with this group

look at what started it: the main issue is about who can control who is either covered by benefits or who can be served at a public place.

all this is far less about the individual than the owners / corporation, albiet run by a religious order (The Little Sisters of the Poor - they were the most vocal voice requesting this new division and so be it, it was created as a campaign promise fulfilled to them).

Look who will be sitting on their board, making their suggestions, etc. Chances are the Catholic nuns will be very involved. So, then, think. In addition to the catholic university from which this "division" sprang . . . nuns, whether this order or others,

well, a majority of hospitals and medical offices in the country are owned or run by the Catholic church. Hospitals will be in favor of vaccines all the way around.

Not making this about the dedicated nuns, just using logic to trace the corporate chart and what that means. Hospitals, whether lay or Catholic or other religion oriented -- they are for vaccines.

Back to the new "moral code committee" - I don't have the names of the board or committee or whatever kind of entity that has been set up for this new "religious and moral division" -

it's important to know the full history of this group -- why it started - what is their "mission statement" but -- not just that as words can get so twisted so more research is needed to get any idea about the realities such as

who will be making referrals for new guidelines, moving it to the legislation, etc. What are their political or business interests. My guess is that you've got hospital personnel heavily peppered on the board as that's what got this whole thing started.

You can search out the names on the board (or whatever this division calls it). Study their background and their political life, so to speak. All that is key.
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Christopher J
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
-
The point is that all this glee, thinking this new division will be in favor of individual choice regarding vaccine,

look at what started it: the main issue is about who can control who is either covered by benefits or who can be served at a public place.

all this is far less about the individual than the owners / corporation, albiet run by a religious order (The Little Sisters of the Poor - they requested this new division and so be it, it was created).

Look who will be sitting on their board, making their suggestions, etc. Chances are the Catholic nuns will be very involved. So, then, think. In addition to the catholic university from which this "division" sprang . . . nuns, whether this order or others,

well, a majority of hospitals and medical offices in the country are owned or run by the Catholic church. Hospitals will be in favor of vaccines all the way around.

I don't have the names of the board or committee or whatever kind of entity that has been set up for this new "religious and moral division" - this is just to know that it's important to know the full history of this group -- why it started - what is their "mission statement" but -- not just that as words can get so twisted

but who will be making referrals, etc. What are their political or business interests. My guess is that you've got hospital personnel heavily peppered on the board as that's what got this whole thing started.
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So what if if was created to protect people with religious beliefs? It also protects people with conscientious objections. They are both listed. And yes this can apply to vaccines for that reason.
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Keebler
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It was not created to protect people of all religious beliefs - only of the owner, not the employee, for example with insurance coverage.

Same will likely go for any vaccine health mandates. The owners' voice will get more weight.
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Christopher J
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:
-
It was not created to protect people of all religious beliefs - only of the owner, not the employee, for example with insurance coverage.

Same will likely go for any vaccine health mandates. The owners' voice will get more weight.
-

This doesn't make any sense. A business owner has nothing to do with vaccine mandates which are imposed by the government. The company is only involved to the extent that they pay or not pay for something through their insurance. Regardless of the supposed intent to protect the religious beliefs of employers, the verbiage in the department is sufficiently broad to include our concerns as well.
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Beverly
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Politicians!

I do see how this could be a negative influence, right now many people who work at hospitals have been fired because they declined the flu vaccine. Imagine if all employers started doing that, or better yet, a person would not be able to get insured without vaccines.

[ 03-01-2018, 03:56 PM: Message edited by: Beverly ]

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Brussels
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As far as I understood, if anyone wants a job in a hospital or any medical facility (dentist office, for example), the employer may ask for the vaccine card.

If the person who would like the job hasn't got the right vaccines, s/he will be refused in certain states.

Am I wrong?

Same as school attendance: some states do not accept children who are not vaccinated.

In France since Jan 2018, if a parent does not vaccinate a child, he can be prosecuted, and may lose the right for child care.

Preschool, daycare, clubs, schools are not supposed to accept such children any longer.

Either parents give the jabs, which means more than 70 strains injected in a baby (up to 18 months of age), or they may be punished by law with fines, loss of child care, and refusal to receive the child in public facilities.

It is not exactly on the hands of parents to decide any more. The State imposes such vaccines, and does not give any choice to parents.

That is what happens NOW in France, for all babies born since Jan 1, 2018.

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Beverly
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If I was a young mother I would not have any children today, so sad.

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Brussels
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I guess, anyone who thinks too much and want to have everything under control would NOT make children anymore.

If I had thought a lot, I think I would not have made mine.

But she gives me so much, just because she's alive.

Without her, I would have left myself die, during lyme disease.

I was ready to let life go, too tired to fight.

Until I thought of my toddler, who was just 1 year old then.

For her, I fought to come back to life.

Without her, I wouldn't have the strength nor the wish to fight. It was much easier to let myself go.

And... If we don't make babies, THEY WIN, we lose.

We gotta fight for our rights, and not let the damn corporations and corrupt governments win all the time.

Without us, corporations or governments cannot thrive, anyway. They need consumers and people to govern!

In France, people are gathering and trying to sue the government. Others are calling for civil disobedience.

It's just a matter of numbers.

If we don't speak out, do not resist, they think: 'they are all sheep, and are following our rules; let's make more nasty rules to get more profit from the docile sheep population!!'.

Look at lyme treatment: the lyme world has to move, for better. It's getting hard to ignore the sheer numbers and pressure coming from the lyme sufferers.

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sammy
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Shame shame shame.

I believe whole heartedly in vaccines.

The science is easily available online from reliable sources. No need to waste my time posting it here, that would take all week!

Have you not paid attention to the stories of your elders? I’ve learned much from mine.

Do you know that people were dying from TB in the 60’s? I have pictures of a great uncle days before he was placed on the iron lung. Of course he died. Alfred. From Cincinnati, Ohio.

The mother of a best friend in school contracted polio 1 day before her classmates were given the vaccine. She was 5 years old, paralyzed in arms & legs. Many other long lasting health problems. Mrs. N, also from Ohio.

As a new RN, on a medical mission, I witnessed first hand how infectious measles was... EVERY child but 1 DIED from that village & surrounding area the infection!!! Sadly I saw that last little girl on her very last day of life. Can you imagine seeing a child suffering before your very eyes from a disease that is vaccine preventable? If I could have given my life to save that last little girl I would have. But no, all I could do was weep as I was powerless. Ecuador.

So there is absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing that anyone could tell me to make me believe that vaccines are bad.

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sammy
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For those of you that think you’re safe in America.

Open your eyes, does your hometown not have immigrants? Or people that like to travel to foreign places?

Illnesses that once were gone have come back in many communities. Especially in schools.

Ok, I’m done.

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sammy
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Not related to vaccines but other sad comments.

It was said above that “public schools don’t educate anyone anymore”.

If your public schools are lacking in some way, move.

Or consider making things better by volunteering or giving in some way. When the schools need to renew a level, support them.

The public schools around here are usually rated “excellent”, most graduates go to college. We also have alternative tech schools, they graduate with advanced job training, often associates degrees.

I went to public school, was offered numerous full scholarships to well known schools. I tested out of 2years premed/biology degree. Was even given advanced admission to their med schools.

Public schools try to meet the needs of all students, severely disabled to seriously smart, athletes, artists, musicians, etc... All the schools around here do a great job.

Someone also said that they wouldn’t have children today. Oh, wow.

I have a bunch of nieces & nephews. They are my favorite people. Ages baby to 5. They are so sweet & happy & fun!!! I love love love spending as much time as possible with them.

Maybe volunteer if you don’t have kids in your life, their special people.

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Keebler
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-
http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set
-

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TF
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The Truth About Vaccines Docu-Series


BREAKING: Justice Department religious discrimination lawsuit alleges woman was forced to get flu shot or be fired

"When employees' religious principles conflict with work rules, they should not have to choose between practicing their religion and keeping their jobs if a reasonable accommodation can be made without undue hardship to the employer," acting Assistant Attorney General John Gore for the Civil Rights Division said in the statement.

The Justice Department's suit argues that the requirement to obtain a letter from a clergy member violates the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the federal law protecting employees against discrimination by employers on the basis of race, gender and religion, among other protections. The DOJ alleges that the requirement caused an "undue hardship" for Williams.

LINK to actual filing: http://bit.ly/2oWUQbg

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Harmony
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher J:
Oh come on. You don't have a right for your employer to cover anything. It is a right you do not have, period. My insurance doesn't cover my Lyme doctor. Do I throw a hissy fit and act like I have some right to it being included? No, I pay out of pocket. You can buy your birth control pills out the ying yang for your supposed 'endometriosis', just pay for it.

the rights of a citizen in a country are regulated by the laws that are passed

the US is the only industrialized country and economy that does not guarantee the right to health care to all its citizens

we will change that

I am sorry your and my Lyme Disease medications are not covered at the time - it is not unreasonable for a people to agree on laws that ensure health care for every woman, man, and child, every senior citizen, and legal immigrant of a nation

many countries guarantee health care, affordable meds, child care, paid family and sick leave, disability insurance, elder care, free use of roads, high equality schools, free higher education etc. to all their citizens - it is very possible and some of the wealthiest and strongest economies do

we in the US have allowed powerful special interests to enter politics and change the laws to divert funds from the people to a few oligarchs

they try to tell you that you are not entitled to anything but they are entitled to a life beyond what you can imagine in riches - not so - we need to get money out of politics and return to reasonable laws

so our meds are covered and vaccines laws can be discussed and regulated by citizens without the greed of all-powerful corporations making decisions for us - we, not unethical corporations, need to decided which vaccines we want and what we allow in them!

some vaccines are life savers - I am glad I have not had to deal with a tetanus infection and I get a lot of injuries working outside in the dirt with power tools – but I also avoid many vaccines since I don’t trust the contents

the current administration is a club of billionaires working to enrich their friends without compassion for “the forgotten man” – ha ha

lies are cheap – actions speak volumes – how do you think the wealth they have was accumulated? By paying the workers? By having any respect for hard working folks? Or by declaring bankruptcy and avoiding paying honest people and laughing all the way to the bank?

--------------------
Persistence, persistence, persistence!!!
"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence...
Persistence and determination are omnipotent."
attributed to Calvin Coolidge

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Beverly
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Too many politicians have given billions to other countries, before taking care of American citizens. Nothing like 1.7 billion to Iran to build necular weapons, and drag the country into 20 Trillion dollars in debt, this country is too corrupt already!

I am very Leary of government control over medical, I don’t like them controlling it. I already go to a doctor who I pay completely out of pocket for, because that is the only way my doctor can treat me without the yoke of insurance companies telling how to treat.

We must alway remember any government can become corrupt, Germany had the holocaust!

I don’t want Mandatory Vaccination, I had a dtap and went crazy! My son has also suffered from side effects of vaccination.
The government has no right to tell me what to take, how to eat and what I put in my body! The whole point of freedom, is freedom to choose what I put into my body.

The government is full of lies and corruption, nothing like a little fluoridated water hmmm, exactly what Hitler did to control people and make them docile.

Vaccination is all about control, it is so much easier to control people when they are ill and cannot fight back.

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Lymetoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Beverly:

The government has no right to tell me what to take, how to eat and what I put in my body! The whole point of freedom, is freedom to choose what I put into my body.


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Amen to that.

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oops!
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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map1131
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I double that Tutu AMEN!

Pam

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Tincup
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Lots of pounding of others happening here, and I didn't start it. This time!

[Big Grin]

Hey Beverly...

[hi] [hi] [hi]

Nice to see you!

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www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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Beverly
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Hello Tincup.

[hi] [hi]

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Beverly
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So sorry someone thinks it’s a sad comment, but you know what they say about opinions..... lol!

After the hell I have been through, they will have to kill me to shoot me up with all the garbage that is in vaccines these days, a little aluminum, a little mercury....blah blah blah.

I spent too much money getting all the mercury fillings removed, chelating metals, taking chlorella, watching my diet.
Same with my son.

If vaccines are so safe why do they have VAERS? Many people have been harmed, the body can only take so much.

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Beverly
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This post has been copied from a post on Facebook, it’s just for information purposes.

“I posted this picture of my 31 year old Sister , Lauren and it took off , so much that it had over 12,000 views and it was well over 500 shares , then Facebook pulled it right out of my timeline .......
I was pissed .
So I started "Laurens Voice"
to keep that awakening going , around the world .
It was in many countries !

She has Cerebral palsy , Epilepsy and Autism from the DTP vaccine , it caused her inconsolable crying for 4 hours after her 4 month old shot , at her 6 month old DTP shot , she went into a 15 minute long Grand Mal seizure , Afterwards she was never the same .
She cannot walk , talk or feed herself , she'll be 32 soon .

I know what did it to her .
Vaccines did it to her .

Sorry couldn’t post her picture, but she is suffering.”

Thank God I have a doctor who understands about vaccines, it’s not for everyone.

[ 03-20-2018, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Beverly ]

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Keebler
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-
Beverly,

So very sorry to hear about the challenges faced by your sister, Lauren. Thanks for sharing your / her experiences even if not easy.

Did you want her photo shared or the Facebook link? It took a little work but I found the Facebook page for
Laurens Voice. I'm not sure what you mean that it was taken down. Oh, was it that Facebook did not let you criticize vaccines in your regular post? No need to answer, I'm just fuzzy on why they took her photo from your reg. page.

Yet now she has her own.

What a beautiful woman she is! What loving living tribute - and so important to share. Thanks for your courage in that.
-

[ 03-20-2018, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Beverly
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So Sorry Keebler, Lauren is not my sister, I was copying it from another post on Facebook, a person who wanted it posted everywhere for awareness about what some people go through with vaccinations.
People are so ignorant about how others suffer.

It would be nice if you could post Lauren’s picture, Keebler, I tried to do it and it would not work for me.

Sorry for the confusion.

[ 03-16-2019, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: Beverly ]

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Brussels
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I think the problem is not the vaccine itself.

If you want that, take it, give it to your baby, etc.

The problem is FORCING vaccines to everyone, no matter who.

That is in discussion. It's not the vaccine itself.


If some vaccines did save lives, well, it looks apparently good, at first sight.

What if though, vaccines lowered the gene pool in a way the great majority of the population start suffering from chronic illnesses for life?

It's hard to talk about the price of lives.

What is the price we have to pay as a species?

What if vaccines save thousands of lives, but let millions ill with chronic illnesses for life?


Both sides are tough: to loose a life is not good, but to be chronic ill forever, since childhood, either.


Freedom of choice: you want to take it, thinking this is safe, why not?


You don't want to take it, because you think it can't do any better - I have no doubt I'd rather get TBE than go through a vaccine that is not proven safe - well, leave us the choice NOT to take the jabs.

The discussion is about FORCED VACCINES, not about vaccines.

I hope Trump or whoever will be able to stop this madness. Are we in a concentration camp society??

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Keebler
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There can be no true choice without education.

The issue, as I see it, are the toxic additives in the vaccines. These adjuvants can destroy some lives. Aluminum & glycophate are just starters.

And most patients / kids have no idea about this - or what it all means.

There can be no true choice if the doctors, themselves, are not fully educated about all the aspects - not just what the manufactures tell them. They are not provided the information, time and opportunity - or freedom - to study all the aspects or even to make up their own minds.

the public has been told / trained to trust what their doctors say but unless doctors start trusting what patients report back to them, this model just can't work.

Bottom line that few consider:

The ingredients are far more than just the infection vaccine element.

Listen to lectures of Dr. Suzanne Humphries (a former nephrologist) before the state congress hearings in either W. Va. or Virginia. YouTube has those.

She is very clear about the extreme toxicity (even if in small amounts) of the adjuvants (put there to cause an immune response)

- and why some people might seem to do okay (but maybe not so, really, later on) . . . and why others are stricken at the time of vaccine or within a short time.

The number of vaccines on schedule, too, are a major risk to many kids - and adults now, too, as the vaccine schedule has been ramped up for every human that still has a heart beat, no matter the age.

She saw too many of her patients go into full kidney failure, requiring lifetime dialysis only after a vaccine.

She started to see connections when many, over time, would say "I was fine until I got that shot" so to speak. She did not go looking for this. Her patients were becoming disabled and she listened, and learned over several years' time. She lost her job over this (as have some other good doctors).

She also has other interviews on YouTube. The ones that are lecture format are the best to watch for this detail.

In some of her lectures, she explains, too, how some of the diseases that are supposedly eradicated by vaccines may not be so to the perceived degree - because the same disease might just be called something else now. This matters.

She has evidence that vaccine coverage regarding immuniity is not actually what the vaccines are "supposed" to be and that's important detail to consider. Many times, they do not work as they are advertised - especially for some with immune or genetic variations.

She does not tell anyone to or not to get such and such a vaccine. What she is about is education as to the ingredients and time schedule and sheer numbers.

Get the actual package insert for any vaccine prior to making the decision. Can't be done that day, get it, take it home, read it, study it. Then study other sources before making a decision.

One major consideration of many: no body should ever have aluminum injected as, with the glyphosate ingredient (an herbacide),

that opens up the blood brain barrier to let the aluminum right in to do major damage due to the glutamate interaction there that can destroy nerve cells and cause over activation of immune system which can later just crash.

My attempt to explain. Humphries' lectures (and those of other doctors) voice this more precisely.

And, my observation: when we think, well, most people are all just swell and dandy - look around. Are they? Are they, really?
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[ 03-21-2018, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Keebler
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http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set
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Beverly
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I have only really met a few people that were completely healthy, they had no mercury fillings in their mouth.

I certainly know many sick people and I have givin up on trying to tell them to find another doctor, try using herbs, turmeric, cannabis, what is the harm in trying?

Doctors aren’t Gods and some can have wonderful intentions but can be completely wrong, they are human.

If you study history you will remember the doctor who told other doctors about germs, he was trying to find out why certain women were dying after giving birth?

He was the doctor who told them about washing hands, he was completely ostracized by the medical community until he died, no one would ever suggest a person not wash their hands in today’s world would they? But that was the knowledge they had at the time, we now know about bacteria, viruses and such.

I do not want Mandatory Vaccination, ever.

--------------------
God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion.

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Bartenderbonnie
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Score a victory for Robert Kenneny Jr

https://principia-scientific.org/court-us-government-broke-the-law-on-vaccine-safety-for-30-years/

http://icandecide.org/government/ICAN-HHS-Stipulated-Order-July-2018.pdf

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WakeUp
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http://counterthink.com/CounterThink-Episode-7-Suzanne-Humphries.html

About Dr. Suzanne Humphries---its important to mention here that she has received terrifying death threats from big pharma thugs at least three times-- including photoshop pictures of her--- depicted as a maimed person with her eyes gouged out!!

People who would threaten others in this way would not hesitate to put toxins in our vaccines while making money off of our injury!!! They also would not hesitate to deny chronic Lyme disease to the public, design fraudulent blood tests, and strip good LLMDs of their ability to practice. Mainstream media is fake, and has been absent in reporting what is going on!!

Do NOT trust the fake news mainstream media.

People here should also remember that these same big Pharma criminal thugs have MURDERED many naturopathic physicians, plus they killed a CDC researcher. These criminals are guilty of multiple murders and death threats-- and they will eventually be held accountable.. God will ensure that they are held accountable for their evil so all Christians here need to pray that the evil be exposed.

Shockingly, the corrupt FBI turned around and tried to BLAME Dr. Humphries-- for giving death threats to herself.

"Blaming the victim" is the typical response of the criminal psychopaths who now own our health industrial complex and our highest offices of justice and law enforcement..

Just remember: Democrats sold American uranium to the Russians, then later turned around and accused Trump of being "in league" with the Russians. The crooks blame their victims for what they themselves are doing!!! Adding insult to injury. They blame the victims.

In the best case this is called "projection."

Worst case it is called DIABOLICAL INVERSION. Pure evil.

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WakeUp
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quote:
Originally posted by sammy:
Shame shame shame.

I believe whole heartedly in vaccines.

The science is easily available online from reliable sources. No need to waste my time posting it here, that would take all week!

Have you not paid attention to the stories of your elders? I’ve learned much from mine.

Do you know that people were dying from TB in the 60’s? I have pictures of a great uncle days before he was placed on the iron lung. Of course he died. Alfred. From Cincinnati, Ohio.

The mother of a best friend in school contracted polio 1 day before her classmates were given the vaccine. She was 5 years old, paralyzed in arms & legs. Many other long lasting health problems. Mrs. N, also from Ohio.

As a new RN, on a medical mission, I witnessed first hand how infectious measles was... EVERY child but 1 DIED from that village & surrounding area the infection!!! Sadly I saw that last little girl on her very last day of life. Can you imagine seeing a child suffering before your very eyes from a disease that is vaccine preventable? If I could have given my life to save that last little girl I would have. But no, all I could do was weep as I was powerless. Ecuador.

So there is absolutely nothing, nothing, nothing that anyone could tell me to make me believe that vaccines are bad.

Sammy-- You and your children are free to take as many vaccines as you wish to-- and to believe the lying marketing and hype delivered by big pharma on TV if you choose.

But please don't force me-- a person who has had an adverse reaction to both the yellow fever and the tetanus vaccines-- to take more vaccines-- because of your vaccine worshipping religion.

I HAVE BEEN INJURED by your religion.

Vaccines for me are not a religion. They are a personal choice. Some people (poor detoxifiers-- about one third of the population) react badly to vaccines-- the science is settled on that one. I am a poor detoxifier -- so please don't force your multiple vaccine religion on me!!

Also the decline in TB was NOT due to a TB vaccine (the TB VACCINE IS INEFFECTIVE) -- but was instead due to sanitation, a reduction in crowding and effective treatment.

Please get your facts straight-- much decline in disease has been due to sanitation, clean water and effective treatment NOT preventative vaccines.
.
Of course I would take a rabies vaccine if a rabid fox bit me. But probably no other vaccine--- science mixed with profits and marketing is not pure science--- it is junk science. And the marketing is basically lies.

And now you cannot even sue a manufacturer if they accidentally put cyanide or live bird flu in your vaccine. They are unaccountable-- and their science is junk science-- based on greed..

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Bartenderbonnie
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Update !!!!!

Amazon has apparently started removing anti-vaccine documentaries from its Amazon Prime Video streaming servers;

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/01/tech/amazon-anti-vaccine-movies-schiff/index.html

Facebook has taken steps to remove search options pertaining to vaccine controversies.

Google's sister site, YouTube, will also remove and elimate all 'vaccine controversies' search sites;

https://tinyurl.com/y5pjhr6e

Pinterest has gone 1 step further. . . They have blocked all 'vaccination' related searches. Pinterest also has banned any alternative or natural cures, stating them as misinformation;

https://tinyurl.com/y4sdhwb8

Censorship is here. So sorry I had to post this.

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Brussels
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thanks Bonnie.

Has Trump got what he wanted ? To stop mandatory vaccines?

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lymenotlite
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I have now heard mentioned "wild" measles as well as '"vaccine" measles. The guy wasn't more informative than just using those terms but I assume it means that that vaccines have caused a new strain of measles????

When I was a kid, we all had measles and it was considered a minor childhood disease. No one ever died from it or I'd have certainly heard about it. Some say these childhood illnesses can help the immune system to develop.

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Keebler
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I think it's important to recognize some of the very real dangers of such infections. Even decades ago, some kids did not fare well at all. And some did die just as some still do. We just did not hear about them like we do today with rapid media.

But that brings no less devastation to the families faced with damage or death to a loved child.

It's just that now, a percentage of those who have been given the vaccine have also faced some devastating consequences.

They deserve just as much recognition as those who suffer from the disease.

But we, as a society, with the media hate against the "anti-vaxxers" are failing to see the point: safety for all.

The vaccine injury group has many documented cases of harm.

But it's not so black and white. The INGREDIENTS, each ingredient and in totality, needs to be considered. No study has been done on all the adjuvants.

Still, when someone who has had a reaction in the past - or whose parents have studied this for good reason, want a choice, it's vital to keep that choice an option.

Also lost in this media blitz is how else can we support kids (and adults) who are have so many immune stressors today beyond decades ago.

[Personally, I think our medical model is broken and negligent, though, to not consider various ways to actually treat various viruses. Let some naturopathic physicians lend their knowledge to all the ways to approach prevention and treatment - and maybe ways to help vaccines become safer, too]
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Keebler
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I know that vaccines can cause damage. The last 3 vaccines between '87 & '93) I had each caused serious neurological damage from which I have never recovered.

Obviously, not every person has such reactions. But more than a few certainly have / do / can.

Convulsions within hours of one, then ataxia, trouble talking, thinking, etc. only marginally got better - while on steroids - but then crashed worse when they were stopped.

A few years later, very similar issues - and the third one landed me in bed for a full year, unable to do much more than survive. I also had undiagnosed lyme, babesia, etc. but the vaccines, each within hours, really cut me down.

So I know this about much more than "mercury" or "autism" which the loud voices like to say, "oh, that's not there anymore or isn't caused by" . . . when, really, that has not been disproven at all.

Where some vaccines no longer have mercury, some still do but the aluminum is also a major factors as are other neurotoxins that can get to the brain much quick with the addition of glyphosate in the vaccine. What's a weed killer doing to us?

My words cannot say what I wish to convey. Much more good detail here:


http://www.realfarmacy.com/if-your-doctor-insists-that-vaccines-are-safe2/

If Your Doctor Insists That Vaccines Are Safe, Then Have Them Sign This Form

&

https://vaccines.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005206#header_td

Ingredient Lists for many of the most common vaccines


http://www.nvic.org/

National Vaccine Information Center

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is a national charitable, non-profit educational organization founded in 1982.

NVIC launched the vaccine safety and informed consent movement in America in the early 1980's and is the oldest and largest consumer led organization advocating for the institution of vaccine safety and informed consent protections in the public health system.

Our Mission

The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) is dedicated to the prevention of vaccine injuries and deaths through public education and to defending the informed consent ethic in medicine. . . .


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set
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Bartenderbonnie
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Over 4 Billion paid for Vaccines Injuries

https://thevaccinereaction.org/2019/01/over-4-billion-paid-for-vaccine-injuries-and-deaths/

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Robin123
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quote:
Originally posted by Bartenderbonnie:
Update !!!!!

Amazon has apparently started removing anti-vaccine documentaries from its Amazon Prime Video streaming servers;

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/01/tech/amazon-anti-vaccine-movies-schiff/index.html

Facebook has taken steps to remove search options pertaining to vaccine controversies.

Google's sister site, YouTube, will also remove and elimate all 'vaccine controversies' search sites;

https://tinyurl.com/y5pjhr6e

Pinterest has gone 1 step further. . . They have blocked all 'vaccination' related searches. Pinterest also has banned any alternative or natural cures, stating them as misinformation;

https://tinyurl.com/y4sdhwb8

Censorship is here. So sorry I had to post this.

Go ahead and communicate to these folks. In CA, we are barraging Rep Adam Schiff's site for asking Amazon not to carry the Vaxxed film.

This is censorship of life-saving information. We know about vaccine injuries.

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Robin123
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https://childrenshealthdefense.org/wp-content/uploads/Rep-Posey-LetterTo-Mark-Zuckerberg-Vaccines-March-4-2019.pdf

This is Cong. Posey (FL) responding to facebook exec Mark Zuckerberg's either censorship of vaccine info or considering censoring - I can't tell. This is important - it's what media is doing with info, and the questions Posey asks at the end are key, ie Zuckerberg should not be making medical decisions for people.

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Beverly
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I wonder if we could have a vaccine page here on Lymenet? It’s terrible that all these sites are censoring important information.

--------------------
God Bless You! Everything..is just my opinion.

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Keebler
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Beverly,

The reference page you requested is here - it's not designed so much for comments but, rather, as a place to find organized links to the top resources.

It's a links set to learn more at those sites and keep up with new details, a place you can find answers to many questions from those who have a good handle on all the aspects:


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=131625;p=0

VACCINE INGREDIENTS - Informational Links set
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