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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » GREAT IMPORTANCE OF VITAMINS & MINERALS in Lyme & Chronic Disease

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Author Topic: GREAT IMPORTANCE OF VITAMINS & MINERALS in Lyme & Chronic Disease
AliG
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I'm going to try to tie all of my separate threads together so the info is easier to find. [bonk] [dizzy]

This is some extremely important information that could be easily overlooked.

Deficiency symptoms could be discounted as disease symptoms and could lead to big problems if not addressed.

Not only can the stress of fighting disease deplete vitamins or create greater need for them, but many of the medications used in Tx can also deplete them.

Healthy Probiota is also necessary for breakdown & absorption of nutrients. Please be diligent about supplementing your probiotics when on antibiotics or your nutritional state may suffer greatly.

It may be helpful to try to keep this information in mind, to avoid discounting nutritional deficits as Herxheimer reactions or worsening disease symptoms.

Chronic inflammatory illness can cause malnutrition

Drug Induced Vitamin/Mineral Deficiencies

Nutritional Neuropathy

Vitamin A deficiency

Thiamine (B1) Deficiency - (Beriberi)

Biotin Deficiency

Folic Acid Deficiency

Pellagra - Niacin Deficiency

Treepatrol's extensive coverage of B-12 deficiency (Thanks Tree! [Smile] )

Vitamin C deficiency

Vitamin D Deficiency and Related Disorders

Iron Deficiency Anemia

Some Possible Nutritional Deficiencies (good link containing other links)

[ 10-20-2013, 09:28 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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DakotasMom01
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Thank You Ali!!
Very important info.

--------------------
Take Care,
DakotasMom01

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luvs2ride
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Thanks Alig! Lots of hard work on your part and your message is so true.

--------------------
When the Power of Love overcomes the Love of Power, there will be Peace.

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AliG
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I'm amazed at how many symptoms listed for these deficiencies I've seen posted as questions lately.

[ 05-14-2012, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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adding some new ones [Big Grin]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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seekhelp
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Thank you for all the great information!
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AliG
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You're all very welcome! [group hug]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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rachellemarie
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But make sure your vitamins are from a natural source and not synthetic. MOST of the vitamins on the market today are synthetic and a lot of them are made from the pharmaceutical industry!!
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Keebler
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-


http://www.lymepa.org/Nutritional_Supplements.pdf


Nutritional Supplements in Disseminated Lyme Disease.

J.J. Burrascano, Jr., MD

July, 2008

Four pages


===============

This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:


http://tinyurl.com/6lq3pb (through Amazon)

THE LYME DISEASE SOLUTION (2008)

- by Kenneth B. Singleton , MD; James A. Duke. Ph.D. (Foreword)

You can read more about it here and see customer reviews.

Web site: www.lymedoctor.com


-

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Cass A
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Could this thread get posted near the top of the board??

This information is soooooo important!!

Best,

Cass A

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sparkle7
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I don't mean to be a "devil's advocate" here but how do we really know if the supplements are working or what the long term use of them will do to the body?

I recently heard that an imbalance in supplementation can produce ill effects.

I also heard that synthetic vitamins can be not good for the body (as another person stated prior).

I don't think we really have to worry about malnutrition here. Most of us get enough to eat on a daily basis - even homeless people in the USA. I read one of the studies that you posted (AliG) about this.

It's just that over my lifetime (I'm 48), I must have spent probably close to $100,000 or more on supplements... am I healthy? - NO. Did it cure Lyme or any other illness I had? - Who knows? Probably not...

I take extra magnesium - which is what they all say will help fibromyalgia & Lyme & I don't feel any different. I
ve taken vitamin C to supposedly prevent colds, antioxidants, calcium, B vitamins, and 100s of others supplements & IVs.

I'm still not as healthy as some people I know who don't take anything.

Are all these ever increasingly expensive supplements just a placebo or something we feel is making us better when in fact it's not doing anything? It might even be making us worse...

How do we really know? Scientific studies can be wrong or biased depending on who is financing them.

Maybe it's better if we just try to eat pure, organic food as best as we can & stop spending so much on supplements that we don't know if they are working or not.

These are just some thoughts... I'm sure there are some supplements that are OK. It's just that we don't really know if the supplements are really helping.

I haven't heard that anyone has been "cured" from Lyme by taking them. Herbal medicines may be different. I just doubt that many of us are really malnourished.

Maybe it's a psychological thing that we feel if we spend a bunch of money on some pills in a healthfood store that we feel that will somehow be cured. I had numerous expensive IVs & I didn't feel any different, as well.

Please don't hate me for bringing this up. I have greatly cut back on supplements & I don't feel much different.

We just don't know the long term effect of supplementation - especially of synthetic vitamins that may be out of balance to the normal body functions.

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AliG
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quote:
posted by sparkle7

Maybe it's better if we just try to eat pure, organic food as best as we can & stop spending so much on supplements that we don't know if they are working or not.

I've seen reports about the soil depletion from heavy farming and I don't believe that good, healthy food actually contains the same level of nutrient it used to.

I don't hate you for posting that. I do think that, with nutrient depletion of our foods, at least a mutlivitamin/mineral supplement would be in order.

I didn't see you mention having taken any A, Bs, C or probiotics. If you're not taking probiotics, you wouldn't likely be absorbing the others (except maybe a sublingual B-12 which needs other Bs too). That would pretty much be flushing that money spent on supplements right down the toilet.

It's a known fact that the body needs higher intake of nutrients to fight infection, it has a lot of extra work to do & needs the raw materials.

It doesn't matter WHAT you are eating if you aren't absorbing the nutrients and if the food you consume doesn't actually contain the nutrients it should, you'd have to consume an awful lot more to maintain your health.

Many here, myself included have problems with their appetite due to Babesia, or difficulty eating certain foods due to gastrointestinal problems. This may not apply to you & you may be capable of consuming adequate quantities of food to maintain your nutrient levels.

If that's the case, you're certainly welcome to disregard it.

I do believe that I HAVE heard that it's good to take periodic breaks from supplements. I don't recall if it was 3 months on/ 1 month off or 3 weeks on/3 weeks off.???? It might be good to look up & I don't know if that would apply when fighting disease.

I'm not recommending that everyone run out & consume massive doses of supplements. I am pointing out that we may not be getting the nutrients we need from our regular diet. If you read through the links & see something that you can say "Hey that applies to me", then you will be better off for knowing it.

Many here are eating restricted diets, if they are not supplementing to compensate for any particular nutrients they may not be getting, they will suffer for it.

Some of the meds that we take actually deplete certain nutrients or inhibit their absorption and create deficiencies. If you are taking those meds & not supplementing adequately.....voila - deficiency.

Many of the symptoms caused by these deficiencies could actually be mistaken for Tick-borne disease symptoms or Herxheimer reactions, leading people to believe that their treatment is having effect or NOT having effect, when those symptoms may be totally unrelated and instead be due to a deficiency.

I do believe that many nutrients work better in combinations & when taken with food. Sometimes isolating one B vitamin & taking high doses of it can mask a deficiency of another one. That's why it's best to take Bs in complex.

This is just food for thought, do with it what you will.

[hi]

edited to add: In my book "devil's advocate" is good when it comes to our health. These are valid questions you bring up & I'm sure someone else would have those very same questions.

I can't do it right now, but maybe we can look up the info on hypervitaminosis. We can start threads on those & I can link them up top too.

I do know that excessive amounts of oil-soluble vitamins can be dangerous because the body stores them, ie - Vitamin A, but not in Beta Carotene form, only the acetate. I also know that Vitamin E must be the natural form which tocopherol that is right now I don't recall.

With soluble Vitamins you can take & awful lot & just piddle away all the excess. That's wasted money there.

There is at least one B vitamin (maybe B3?) that I know can cause problems when too much is taken. I'm not positive which one.

I don't think it's good to take excessive doses of any specific nutrient, unless you know for a fact that you would be severely lacking. More isn't also better and most often moderation is key.

Dealing with diseases that deplete certain nutrients, diets that may be lacking, meds that may be creating deficiencies and possibly absorption problems makes this a very complicated issue for us & IMO, definitely not a "one-size fits all".

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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Thanks Rachelmarie & Keebler for those valuable contributions! [group hug]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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sparkle7
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I guess some of the info posted about applied kinesiology or testing with a BioTensor or pendulum may be of use here to determine which supplements to take (if you're into that sort of thing).

I always believed in some of these so-called health food gurus... but now when I look back, I see alot of their info was wrong.

Also, info that we find on websites that sell supplements may be incorrect or biased, too. You have to keep in mind that they sell vitamins - so, more advanced & expensive supplements may have studies that they are somehow better.

I don't think it's all bad but you have to really give it some thought. We really don't have any idea of what is in the supplements & if they are even potent.

I started going "old school" & taking nutritional yeast for vitamin B. I eat food that has probiotics like kefir, yogurt & probiotic drinks. I'm not taking many drugs or abx - so, it's not a huge issue for me.

I'd like to get into juicing a bit more in the future. I try to look for organic produce & other foods when I can. I have heard about the soil depletion but can you really know how severe it is?

Is all food grown in the US depleted? We just don't know...

I don't have many food allergies - so, it's not a problem for me. I do have alot of left over supplements here - so, I will take what I have around the house.

I have a big jar of fish oil supplements. I would like to eat more fish when I can but the selection here is not all that great.

I guess I started to really think about this when I heard an interview with a doctor from the Linus Pauling Institute saying that megadoses of vitamins are not necessarily a good thing. There aren't alot of long term studies as to what large doses of vitamins can do to the body.

I don't really think alot of people here in the US have to think about malnourishment. We probably have to be more concerned with getting rid of toxic materials in the body... We have so many toxins in our environment.

This is just an educated guess...

It's really a complex subject that deserves more attention. I just heard the other day on a radio show that large doses of vitamin C is not healthy but intravenous vit. C may help with cancer... So, if you take 1000 mg of vitamin C it made be bad but if you have cancer & you get it intravenous - it may help.

It really deserves more thought.

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AliG
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quote:
I guess I started to really think about this when I heard an interview with a doctor from the Linus Pauling Institute saying that megadoses of vitamins are not necessarily a good thing. There aren't alot of long term studies as to what large doses of vitamins can do to the body.
I agree with this, IMO megadoses are not usually a good idea unless you know you have a specific, severe deficiency. I believe that you can upset the balance of some things by taking too much of others. I think this holds true for many minerals.

I have also heard that antioxidants, such as Vit-C, E & CoQ10, may actually protect cancer cells as well as healthy cells. In excess they may actually prevent apoptisis (programmed cell death).

You make very good points. I prefer to take a probiotic with yogurt, as I know they actually thrive in it. I like to take Vitamin C with orange juice or berries. Vitamin C helps with the absorption of iron, so if you need iron, it is good to have citrus or Vitamin-C with iron containing foods.

I don't think that a person could be cured by perfect nutrient consumption, but I think they stand a much better chance of having treatments work when their body has the necessary raw materials to fight back.

I also believe that deficiencies can help these darn critters take us down so much faster, they weaken us and we need every ounce of strength we can muster!!!!

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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Keebler
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-

Those with gluten problems can have malnutrition. Those with leaky gut, ditto. How much a person weighs in not an indication of how well they are nourished. In fact, heavy persons may not be absorbing nutrients.


So, many chronically ill patients actually are malnourished due to malabsorption.

Those with neurological damage may indeed require more - or specific types of vitamins, especially the B vitamins.


=============

Two very good books:


The Cure is in the Kitchen

&

A Spoonful of Ginger


===================

This is also excellent and specific to lyme and Cpn patients:

http://tinyurl.com/6xse7l )


The Potbelly Syndrome: How Common Germs Cause Obesity, Diabetes, And Heart Disease (Paperback) - 2005


by Russell Farris and Per Marin, MD, PhD

8 customer reviews and you can look inside the book


-

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Healing in Santa Cruz
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My MD energy tests me and I use a pendulum to check all herbs,vitamins,treatments etc. Your body knows what is good or bad for you and can shift in minutes and hours for what it needs.
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sparkle7
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re: So, many chronically ill patients actually are malnourished due to malabsorption.

If this is true... taking more nutrients may not be a way of increasing absorption.

I don't know the answer to this since I don't think this is my issue. I haven't researched it much. It would be interesting to find out ways of increasing absorption. It seems like it would be helpful.

I did used to have the "belief" somewhere in my mind that you could cure almost anything with vitamins. I'm not so sure that this is true anymore...

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AliG
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Thanks for that valuable info, Keebler. [Smile]

Sparkle, I think it would depend on the underlying cause of the malabsorption.... Insufficient probiota? Insufficient enzymes? Problems with the mucosal lining of the intestines? Diarrhea? Inflammation?

I think I recall reading about the Micellized Vitamins under malabsorption. When I have some time, I'll have to go back to my books & see if I can figure out where I read it.

I can also probably "google" emedicine & malabsorption and come up with something.

I'll have try to check this out later.

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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sparkle7
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Thanks, that would be good AliG.

It's not that I am against vitamins... I just think there has to be a counterbalance to taking alot of stuff that you may not need. The body is all about balance. It may be easy to throw it all out of whack by taking a large does of something.

We also don't really know what is in many products.

Maybe if there was a simple way we could assess what we need... it would be better than just taking alot of different things...? It would ultimately save money.

Does anyone know of a simple way to test for which vitamins to take? I know many people here are into energetic testing... Are there any other tests anyone could suggest?

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DoctorLuddite
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Vitamin D is the only vitamin I know of that has been shown to enhance apoptosis...ironic we have been told for years by "experts" to avoid the thing that enhances our bodys' ability to fight cancer, the sun, for the reason that it supposedly causes cancer.

Non-melanoma skin cancer is one of the most treatable cancers, often simple, local excision is curative. Melanoma, one of the worst cancers, is not clearly related to sun exposure.

It has been demonstrated that sufferers have a tendency to have had severe sunburns as children, and IMO, this would make them avoid the sun as adults, a risk factor for vitamin D deficiency.

Internal organ cancers, however are all being shown to be linked to low vitamin D levels.

[ 11. November 2008, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: DoctorLuddite ]

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AliG
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Sorry, I fell off the planet for a while.

Thanks DoctorLuddite for all of your contributions on Vitamin D in the threads that I had started. I'm sorry to have been so rude as to have not responded previously.

I have always been one who hesitates to jump on the medically recommended complete avoidance bandwagon.

I have had my own theories on many of the dogmatic medical recommendations and it seems that medicine comes back around to prove me right.

ie: whole eggs are actually good for you if the yolk is not over-heated, it is NOT good to COMPLETELY avoid sun exposure

I also believe that the problem with dairy/animal fat is not so much the fat itself but the toxins that are stored there (like in our cellulite).

They will probably find that the fat in organic, free-range animal products are actually very beneficial maybe even necessary for optimal brain/body function some day.

How can the human body be expected to suddenly evolve to know how to deal with unnatural transfats and other structurally modified food substances?

They've also found that red wine posseses benefits in small quantities.....

I think it's sad that SUGAR of some form or another has to be added to almost everything convenient in our food supply.

The more sugar people consume, the less they actually taste it. If they stop eating all sugar for a couple of weeks, suddenly everything sweetened tastes very sweet.

The body turns down the sensitivity to sweet because we NEED to eat and when we constantly consume sweetened foods, it assumes that it needs to adapt.

I believe that the key is moderation and am very leary when someone tells me that something like the sun is purely evil. In my mind that makes no sense.

Yes too much is bad, but that's why we burn. It's the body's way of saying "THAT'S TOO MUCH, STUPID!!!".

There are too many beneficial things that are derived by the human body from the sun for us to avoid it at all costs.

Avoiding sunburn is good, avoiding the sun altogether (IMO) is bad. If sunshine wasn't good for us, I don't think it would feel so good to bask in it.

Now as for applying things to magnify the sun and get a darker tan......probably not such a good idea either......

....although I DO look much healthier with a tan [Roll Eyes] , but that is probably because I AM a bit unhealthy at present.

Most healthy people would probably not need Vitamin/Mineral Supplements if they drank good clean (toxin-free) water, ate produce that was grown in healthful, nutrient-rich, toxin-free soil (a very rare commodity) and disease-free animal products that were fed the same and aquatic animals/produce raised in toxin-free water (another rare commodity), breathed pure, fresh, toxin-free air and had a reasonable bask/frolic/stroll in the sun each day/week.

Those who have disease and/or do not have access to the aforementioned nutritional sources, IMO, likely would need a little help now & then. How much would really depend on all the individual deficiency factors and the individual's disease-causing organisms.


I know there are tests that can be run on the hair and there are different blood tests that can be run for certain nutrients, but as for a fast, easy, inexpensive answer.........figure one out and you'll be rich. [Wink]

I tend to look for symptoms of deficiency & then see if Vitamins help relieve the symptoms. Can they MASK symptoms, some of them yes. It's probably best to try to figure out, with your doctor, if a deficiency truly exists and then try to resolve the source of the deficiency.

If only we had all the time, money and patience to constantly analyze our nutrient balance.....I'm sure that would really be helpful.

We need a reasonably-priced nutrient meter or monitor, like a blood-pressure monitor that we can just hook up to daily/weekly, test all our levels & supplement accordingly. Wouldn't that be great?!! [Smile]

Maybe some day that will be a reality. I guess for now we just have to try to listen to our bodies and judge the best we can.

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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quote:
Originally posted by Keebler:


How much a person weighs in not an indication of how well they are nourished. In fact, heavy persons may not be absorbing nutrients.



Excellent point, Keebler.

I often wonder if those people who find themselves heavy, specifically because of overeating (I don't believe metabolic problems would impact this), aren't hungry for something they are lacking but perhaps not eating what it is they need and therefore remain feeling unsatisfied.

I have always made a point of indulging any odd cravings I might get, especially if it is a food that I'm not usually particularly crazy about (ie: liver, brussels sprouts). I then try to look up what nutrients that food may be high in, if I don't know, and include other sources in my diet.

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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sometimesdilly
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[hi] ali
Posts: 2507 | From lost in the maze | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AliG
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Hi Dilly! [hi]

I hope all is well with you & DS. I haven't really seen you posting much lately.

I'm sorry I didn't respond sooner, I forgot to check the box for e-mail notification. [bonk]

I just remembered that I had done this thread & did a search to find it to see where I had left off & low & behold, there you were! Nice to see you again. [group hug]

I think they should make that stupid box checked by default, after all many of us have memory issues & who WOULDN'T want to know someone replied to their thread? [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

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AliG
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^bumping up^ [Smile]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dyna3495
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"happiness is;using all of your abilities in the pursuit of excellence" JFK.
This is obviously a very happy group investigators. Thankyou all for your very important effort to find answers ! God will bless you all for your hard work.

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AliG
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Thank you for that dyna3495 - I'll take any help I can get! [Smile] [group hug]

[ 10-20-2013, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: AliG ]

--------------------
Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner.

Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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