posted
Hi all, No raised bumps or thrush, they feel almost like "cuts" in the mouth--especially on the sides of my tongue and the top of the pallate.
I take B complex, mag, all that. Is this some kind of vitamin deficiency? The sides of the tongue rub against the teeth. Annoying! Anyone else??
Posts: 182 | From hills and valleys | Registered: Jan 2009
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Keebler
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- Vitamin deficiency? Could be. Are you enough Folic Acid? Everything else that you should?
Hopefully, this is from grinding your teeth, especially at night. If so, MAGNESIUM can calm the muscle contractions that cause that kind of tension. You may need more magnesium. Up to 1,000 - 2,000 mg a day (always in divided doses) - to bowel tolerance.
Balance with Calcium and zinc, both of which are also needed but you'd have to research upper levels. Too much zinc can impair the immune system (but so can too little).
However, grinding would not account for problems on top pallate. I assume you've rule out certain foods (chips) as the cause.
DRY MOUTH ? Check all your meds to see if they cause "dry mouth" If so, and if these are not required to actually treat lyme or non-essential drugs, I would stop them. Dry mouth can actually contribute to dental infections and that can contribute to heart disease.
TOOTHPASTE IRRITATION? The foaming agents, flavorings, and whiting agents in most toothpastes are very bad for us. I'd avoid any commercial toothpastes. You can use a little baking soda (dissolve it first, though, so as not to scratch). Other links will follow for safe toothpastes.
Tooth Whitening products are often very irritation to tender tissue in the mouth. Best to avoid. A little baking soda paste will help. Dissolve, though, so that it does not scratch tooth enamel. Also, don't be enticed by how white we are being told teeth should be. They are not meant to be sparking white.
If TMJ, bruxism (grinding) related, see the BODY WORK links here, too. You may need to educate your muscles:
Aphthous ulcer - details � and photos - (but not all look the same)
===================================
I've had a terrible ordeal with Aphthous ulcers and "burning mouth". Andrographis has help. Allicin, too.
For four straight years I had a mouth on fire � and with many Aphthous ulcer. Allicin helped at one point but I had to stop due to how it raised tinnitus for me (most patients do not get this effect, though).
Several months ago, after starting on andrographis, within one week, my mouth markedly improved. Within two, nearly all better. And it�s stayed that way.
I�ve taken a week off here or there and the mouth is still good. Amazing stuff. But, as the allicin was a bit too speedy for my system, andrographis is very sedating for most. So, be aware.
After the first week or two that gets a bit better � and it is very calming to the central nervous system so that helps me in many ways.
Andrographis can also cause some stomach upset, so it's best to take it with food at first.
[update 10-20-10: I took a couple months off of all supplements in the summer and my mouth got MUCH worse. It's taken my a couple months back on the andrographis - or allicin at times - to get this under control again.]
-------------
The probiotics in the mouth � and at a different time - a spilanthes mouth rinse helped, but it was not until andrographis that I found total relief. Still this is a great mouth rinse:
WHAT IT DOES: Licorice root is sweet in taste and cooling in action. It detoxifies poisons from the blood and liver, and reduces general inflammation and pain.
It moistens and heals the lungs and digestive tract.
- Full chapter at link above.
================================
If you have high blood pressure, it�d be best to have the DGL kind of licorice:
Jason brand. It is called "Healthy mouth". It has GSE and Tea tree oil and some other natural antibacterial/antifungal herbs in it. It does not have any alcohol so it won't dry your mouth out. It tastes good too.
. . . had a weird black furry fungal patch that was growing on the back of my tongue. 2wks of Nystatin liquid and Diflucan did not work. The "healthy mouth" mouth wash took care of the problem in just a couple days. (Sammy) -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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[My ND has instructed: starting with a fresh mouth - use a few drops and swish a few times a day, swallow, don't rinse or drink for a while afterward.]
posted
I had the black furry tongue patches, too. Use tea-tree oil mouthwash, abx, still had the patches. What helped me most was Bio-K; I let it rest in my mouth for 30-40 seconds before swallowing. Tongue's been great for months.
Mouth sores on top of mouth, not sure what causes them or how to treat successfully. Mine seem to have a lifespan, so I just wait for them to go away.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
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Keebler
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posted
- INEBG,
Thanks for the probiotic reminder (Bio-K). Good to know that solved it for you.
I did all that, too, but it was not enough. It sure can be for some, though. It's a good idea to have some probiotic powder melt in our mouths a time ro two a day.
"Black furry tongue patches?"
This is not uncommon for lyme patients, so this link may be of help for others. I awoke one morning in my early 20's with this and it scared me terribly. My doctor never even mentioned a fungal connection. Wish I had know this then - and about probiotics. It would be a couple decades before I learned all that. Oy !
Black hairy tongue (also known as "Hairy tongue,"[1] and "Lingua villosa nigra"[1]) refers to a number of conditions of humans and animals that cause the tongue to become unusually dark and/or hairy in appearance.
It is associated with the elderly, as well as with antibiotic use. It is more commonly seen in tobacco smokers. While black is the most common color associated with the condition other colors are also possible.[citation needed] [edit]Causes in humans
Hairy tongue is a common condition caused by defective desquamation of the filiform papillae that results from a variety of precipitating factors.
Some of these factors include tooth loss (because a soft diet does not allow for normal desquamation from rough food scraping the tongue), chronic or extensive use of antibiotics, and radiation treatments to the head and neck.
Hairy tongue is often referred to as black hairy tongue (lingua villosa nigra), but it may also appear brown, white, green, or pink- often due to secondary factors such as mouthwashes, breath mints, etc. The "hairy" areas are usually on the posterior (back) of the tongue and never involve the undersurface.
Hairy tongue is not a harmful disorder, and is normally asymptomatic.
�� Patients with hairy tongue often may develop a secondary infection of Candida albicans (thrush). �
It is unclear if hairy tongue itself is a predisposing factor, as the underlying causes of hairy tongue may also lead to the development of thrush.
Procter & Gamble admits that Pepto-Bismol can cause one's tongue and stool to turn black.[2]
This form of "black tongue," however, is a result of a reaction between the bismuth subsalicylate active ingredient and trace sulfur in saliva, forming bismuth(III) sulfide (Bi2S3). . . .
- full page at link above. And the term is quite searchable in the web. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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randibear
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posted
uh white? if it's white wouldn't it be thrush?
took my third diflucan and my tongue is still white and i'm flunking the spit test big time.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
Wow Keebler, you've really outdone yourself. Great reference information. I'm especially interested in andrographis.
Thank goodness I don't have the black furry tongue thing--sounds awful. Sounds like I have some reading to do. Think this might be coming from gut dysbiosis. Thanks all.
Posts: 182 | From hills and valleys | Registered: Jan 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- Randi,
Yes, white would be thrush (candida), which can also go along with a black tongue. This says, secondary, but black tongue is also a fungi problem, too.
"Patients with hairy tongue often may develop a secondary infection of Candida albicans (thrush)." -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Loonie,
Well, all this is from my personal search for a solution when I was told by PCP to "just use an oral steroid cream" (NEVER a good idea for a lyme patient).
If I had a LLMD, I would have had that guidance. That would be best, of course, so do communicate with yours (if you have one).
Burning mouth and ulcers have been excruciating for years, so bad that I nearly ended my life from the on-going searing pain with no end in sight until andrographis (just by chance) seemed to work wonders.
I wish I had not stopped it last summer as it's been hard to get it back under control again but, finally, it may be coming around.
Many have been helped by putting lyme and other infections into remission with antibiotics, along with anti-fungals and certain supplements, too. If you are lucky enough to have a LLMD, by all means, share details as this is not that uncommon with lyme and your LLMD should know WAY more about all this than I.
Not so much with irritations or ulcers but with mouth pain such as "burning mouth" that can also indicate damage of a specific cranial nerve (also common with lyme).
My guess is that those who deal with tinnitus and hyperacusis or other ear/lyme symptoms, they may be more frequently bothered by mouth troubles as those cranial nerves that affect the ears are so close to the mouth.
SMOOTH TEETH ? And, oh, you might ask your dentist to check the smoothness of all your teeth. You may need to have some smoothing done if there have been any minor chips. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Onbam,
Yes, any spirochetal infection (including lyme) can be devastating for the mouth, in many ways. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
my sister had terrible canker sores in her mouth and it turned out to be crohn's disease. she almost died and had to have emergency surgery to remove her whole lower intestine.
She will have an ostomy bag the rest of her life.
-------------------- Dxd ALS 3/2010 Dxd cllinical Lyme 4/2010 Positive for Protomyxzoa but absolutely nothing else in Igenex Posts: 417 | From central ct | Registered: Apr 2010
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nefferdun
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posted
If you are taking Bactrim it can cause mouth sores and you need to quit the drug immediately as it is very dangerous.
I have black tongue and a bad taste in my mouth. It is not hairy though. Sure wish I could get rid of it.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
loonie, hi, I have the exact same symptoms you did. I did a search and came across this thread. Were you able to clear up your symptoms, if so, how?
thanks
Posts: 857 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2009
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Remember to Smile
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posted
quote:Originally posted by 2young2die: my sister had terrible canker sores in her mouth and it turned out to be crohn's disease. she almost died
Dear 2young2die, I'm sorry your sister has had so much trouble. I pray she's doing well now.
Crohn's disease, colitis, IBS, and canker sores are all symptoms of bartonelliosis and borelliosis.
Consultations with ducks often yields this response: "Yeah, they can be painful." No help!
I've learned canker sores often erupt during periods of stress after something irritates the mouth. For me, that could be gluten, yeasty foods, tomatoes, peanuts, and sodium lauryl sulfate. Watch your diet and find your triggers.
If you already have canker sores, eating nuts and chips may be painful and could create more canker sores.
Sodium lauryl sulfate is a toothpaste additive that makes them foam. Rembrandt Canker Sore variety doesn't have it.
I also take L-Lysine, an essential amino acid that prevents canker sores and cold sores. It has anti-viral properties.
L-Lysine should be taken on an empty stomach with 50 mg Vit B-6 and some Vit C to ensure proper utilization.
Praise GOD! I rarely get canker sores anymore. What a relief! Smile
timaca
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6911
posted
The sores in my mouth are related to viruses.... Might want to get checked for various herpes viruses (Focus Diagnostics lab) and enteroviruses (ARUP lab).
Best, Timaca
Posts: 2872 | From above 7,000 ft in a pine forest | Registered: Feb 2005
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momlyme
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posted
I went to a biological dentist a few weeks ago... he did a major evaluation of my mouth. Then looked at saliva under a microscope & I saw my first live spirochetes. I guess spirochetes of the mouth are a precursor to gingivitis and are not (necessarily) related to LD or TBD.
I started looking into mouth health and decided to start oil pulling. It's simple. It's cheap. And it seems to help.
The first day I did it, I got interrupted at 10 minutes and had to spit oil out... I noticed I had 3 sores in my mouth (never had any sores in my mouth before)
I did it again at noon (before lunch)... because the sores were bothering me, so I figured I better work through it.
I've been doing it every day since... seems to help. My teeth don't bleed when I brush (they used to)
I hope when I go back to the dentist to be rid of mouth spirochetes!!
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
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An excerpt from that site: ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Viruses may play a role in canker sore formation by way of causing an immune response. Some of the strains of viruses whose presence has been associated with aphthous ulcers are:
cytomegalovirus (CMV), human papilloma virus (HPV), human herpes virus-8 (HHV-8), Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and herpes simplex virus (HSV-1). +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Most of those are associated with tick-borne diseases, too.
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