posted
Most people are probably aware that Dr. S. recommends clove oil for Bartonella. The active ingredient is eugenol, which some studies say is toxic to humans. However, my bottle of clove oil from N. American Herb and Spice Co. says "edible".
Anyone taken this stuff? Any thoughts or experiences?
What's also interesting to me is that many supplements out there, such as A-Bart, contain clove oil. So some small amount must be at least safe enough for some people to consume......
So far I've only taken 3 drops of my bottle, and I will say it seems very effective, but I worry about damaging myself.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
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nefferdun
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posted
I tried taking it by putting it into capsules. It still hurt my stomach. I didn't see much difference using any of the herbs suggested for bartonella.
I even mixed clove bud oil into DMSO (which takes any substance through the skin) and rubbed it on my shins. OUCH! It made my skin bright red and burned like heck by the little buggers were just fine with it.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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map1131
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Why couldn't you do it through the largest organ skin? Apply directly, diluted or straight up?
I've read that bartonella responds through the skin with tx such as detox baths????
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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lymeladyinNY
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I have used clove oil on my skin. My vagus nerve is affected by bartonella, so I rubbed the oil down the center of my chest. It caused my symptoms to worsen (herx?), but I didn't really notice any vast improvement later on.
I have just started to use A-Bart - and that stuff gave me a wonderful herx the first day I used it (one drop!), and then I didn't have the bart symptoms that were bothering me anymore (heart palpitations and chest pain).
I can't wait to do A-Bart again. I'm thinking it might really help.
-------------------- I want to be free Posts: 1170 | From Endicott, NY | Registered: Sep 2006
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philly78
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I've never used clove but did read about it when searching the internet on candida. Here is what one of the sites I bookmarked says about clove. It is aimed towards candida tx but I would think you can take it in the same manner. Clove tea is what is recommended.
The flavor of this tea is quite strong, and can be difficult for some people to drink. I have a trick for easing a new palate into the flavor of strong brewed clove tea (you'll find the recipe on the Clove Tea page link in the next paragraph), but even still, some people just "don't like" the flavor of cloves.
If Clove Tea is not to your liking you can take the oil internally instead. Simply fill a small glass (like a shot glass) with pure water, add 2 or 3 drops of the oil, and �knock it back�, followed by a cup of your favorite hot herbal tea.
The strong flavored oil will be diluted and �washed� from your mouth and down your throat by the hot tea. Take this mixture once or twice a day, between meals, for up to 5 days at a time. Then, for good measure, take a break for couple of days before starting again.
It states elsewhere on the site to start slow b/c it is so potent.
If you click on the link above, you'll see that it is stated that the clove oil is very irritating to the skin and a recommendation is given on how to use it.
Hope some of that info helps.
-------------------- When faced with pain you have two choices....either quit and accept the circumstances, OR make the decision to fight with all the resources you have at your disposal. Posts: 1000 | From PA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Thanks for the discussion. What freaked me out was a bunch of studies online about eugenol causing cancer and other bad effects. But I think only a drop or two per day, while listening to the body, can't hurt. After all, using in dentistry in gums and mouth, some must get swallowed, probably similar amount to a drop or two.
Posts: 641 | From Nevada | Registered: May 2009
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map1131
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I have a book about essential oils. I would not apply anything neat(with carrier oil like coconut, jojoba oil). Well I do tea tree because I know my body and skin doesn't react but with healing wounds, bug bites.
Essential oils are strong. One must know what they are applying to body and why and how before doing them.
yes they will send you into a healing crisis/herx if not done slowing and correctly.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
We have an experiment in our Chemistry Department that uses Eugenol. It has a warning rating of 4 (the most dangerous rating) as the health rating on the NFPA rating system. In other words: NOT GOOD
Also, clove oil can be used to put a sick fish out of its misery.
Personally I wouldn't recommend ingestion.
Posts: 758 | From now TX | Registered: Mar 2001
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Razzle
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Just because something kills an animal does not mean it is unsafe in small amounts for a human to use. Case in point: Xylitol -- it is poisonous to dogs, but non-toxic for humans.
Also, I would wonder about how the eugenol was created - was it extracted from plant sources with toxic chemicals, the residue of which could be responsible for the problems seen? Also, what concentration was used in the research?
Dentists have used clove oil inside people's mouths for a long long time without problems. It was only after the invention of modern anesthetics that clove oil fell out of favor among most Dentists (no $$$ for the pharmaceutical co's; anesthetic medication can be injected to achieve deeper anesthesia for dental surgery).
So if one is able to find 100% pure unadultrated theraputic grade essential oil of clove, then it is likely safe to use but is recommended to only be used in very small amounts.
On the ORAC scale of antioxidants, there is no other known substance that rates higher than clove oil (the rating is over 1 million; the next closest substance is somewhere in the 700,000's).
I've used clove oil on my skin neat (no dilution with carrier oils such as vegetable oil) and had no ill effects from it (no rash, etc.).
Just my $.02...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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lymeinhell
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posted
I use Clove Oil for so many things (but not for Bart). Young Living has a Clove/Cinnamon essential oil blend called 'Thieves'. They sell it straight, in a spray for disinfectant use (never leave home without it). They put it in toothpaste, mouthwash, and now even a hand soap.
I put a drop of the oil on my toothbrush every morning to kill off any germs or yeast hanging around on my toothbrush.
Or add a drop to a glass of water and swish and swallow when my mouth feels yeasty. I've applied it to gums when I got a dental infection and couldn't get an appt right away.
I've had family members use it topically on poison oak (got rid of it completely!), poison ivy, insect bites (Neighbor's arm was welted from 20 bee stings. Applied Thieves Oil and within 20 mins the welts were gone!)
I've also applied the oil mixed with hand lotion across my abdomen when yeast was rampant systemically.
Of all the things most versatile that isn't sold by prescription, I'd say Clove/Thieves is my number one go to.
Just my 2 cents too.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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nefferdun
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posted
I found the recommendation for Clove bud oil in Dr. S infamous bartonella book. Every herb mentioned he says to take in "very large" doses so I was not sparing with clove oil either. Like I said it hurt inside and out and it did not affect my infections at all.
One LLMD I saw, who has a homeopathic partner, told me there is no herbal remedy that will affect bartonella without the addition of antibiotics. Basically the herbs are just supportive.
I believe that is true about babesia duncani too. I think having a combination of infections makes getting well difficult, using every defensive weapon imaginable, and herbs alone will just not cut it. I do believe when you feel well enough to stop using abx, you should support your immune system with herbs for a long time, if not forever.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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