Topic: Your Globulin and A/G ratio pre and post LD Dx? Immune system is weakening markers?!
susank
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Member # 22150
posted
I have discovered that before my health "crash" of 2006 - my test results for Globulin and the A/G ratio were normal. Even with having elevated EBV and HHV6.
(The albumin/globulin ration from a metabolic panel).
Post "crash" my Globulin level has been low and my A/G ratio high.
I read where "the A/G ratio can be an indicator of disease states".
The first time my Immunoglobulin G levels were checked was in 2006 - my "crash" year. (below normal range). I often wondered what my values would have been prior to 2006.
If the ImmG and Globulin and A/G ratio are related - I might now have a clue. ie was I born with this genetic defect? or was it triggered by something? Or just happened?
I am going to re-check this - but it appears that the values go into normal range after IVIG infusions. I was just re-checked after three months off IVIG and the Gl. was low and A/G was highest ever. So the IVIG was doing good stuff after all including putting my high WBCc into normal range.
I would have to think I am fighting a disease. One that effects the immune system. Geez - could it be Lyme? Maybe I will know for certain when results are back from the direct culture test.
Point/question: Those with LD - have you tracked your Glob. and A/G ratios? Could these values be helpful in some way?
I cannot believe how many doctors obviously "dismissed" the low Globulin and high A/G ratio when I went to them for help - and was so sick. Surely those were hints to check the total Immunoglobulin levels ie IGA, IGM and IGG. Finally a doctor did - probably too late for me.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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joalo
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Up.
-------------------- Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006. Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007
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susank
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Member # 22150
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J. Thanks. Friends - please - inform yourself about this. I don't want others to be overlooked like I was.
For those that have Lyme and/or Bart and/or HypoG/CVID could you please check your Glob. and A/G ratios - if you have them - (test result copies) before (when healthy) and after you became sick?
Doctors routinely run a metabolic panel with a CBC. The panel shows the Albumin, Globulin and A/G ratios.
My Glob and A/G were out of range on tests from 2008 and 2009. Globs low and A/G ratio high. I know now that something was brewing. But no doctor commented on the results.
I now know I had at that time Hypogammaglobulimea/CVID. That means my immune system not making normal and strong enough Immunoglobulins. Similar but different from SCIDs - remember David - the movie "The Boy in the Bubble?"
The low G's and high A/G ratio should have been an alert to the doctors to check my total Immunoglobulin and subclass levels. At least Immunoglobulins G, A and M.
In my case I did not present as a typical HypoG/CVID patient - ie chronic and severe lung/respiratory infections. Those CVID'ers live on Abx - until properly diagnosed with HypoG - and start on IVIG.
IVIG is IV infusions of Immunoglobulin G. We have all heard of GammaGlobulin injections, right? IVIG is just about the same - except it is IV and much larger dose.
How I ended up with HypoG/CVID I don't know. And why am I one of small percentage that does not have chronic pneumonia etc? Lyme/Bart instead?
So please - if you don't know your Glob and A/G ratio - ask to have them checked. If not normal - then further request to have your total Immunoglobulin levels checked.
Those reading this that know your G and A/G values pre/post illness (TBI?) could you please share?
This could turn out to be very interesting.
FWIW - HypoG/CVID usually not discovered/diagnosed until one is in their 20's -more often middle-aged.
I don't know if immune system deficiency is the same as a supressed immune system - the latter that can be caused by LD/Bart. Anyone know?
For me - when I got really sick in 2006 with symptoms of Sjogren's, Lyme and Bart - is when my Globulins first showed low/deficient and my A/G ratio high.
Sjogren's patients typically have Hypergammaglobulinemia - ie high levels of Immunoglobulins. I test neg. for Sjogren's.
Somehow this info has to be of use - diagnostically (in support of LD/Bart?) and for possible needed treatment? (IVIG?). Particularly for those that stay very sick and don't know why.
Go to "Treatment Protocols" and scroll down for the "Happiness Is" articles.
I had forgotten that I had read this. I had stopped IVIG - and finding/reading her blog further supported my decision to go back on it. (I had gone off to do some testing) (Re-started last week). (And yes - I felt the difference being off of it).
FWIW - this gal does the kind of riding I used to do. My horse and hopes to ride again is what keeps me going.
Please read all three parts of her blog. The links to parts two and three are found upper right hand corner under her flower pictures.
Note - IVIG is not a cure - but can help some people tremendously.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I was also diagnosed with cvid but it was after my Lyme dx. My immunologist wants to put me on ivig but my LLMD said should just do colostrum.
What do you think? Would the IVIG help me recover faster?
Posts: 253 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2011
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susank
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Member # 22150
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My personal opinion would be that IVIG would help you more than colostrum. I don't want to do IVIG - have gone on and off a few times.
My first IVIG I was given 30g of a high IGA brand. I went to a different clinic and got a low IGA brand and started off at lower dose of 10g - every three weeks.
Went off for testing putposes - and I really felt the difference. I think IVIG was helping me more than I had realized.
So re-started last week at 10g and will up to 15g and more. I do not do pre-meds other than Tynenol.
If you read what other CVIDers report - they note increase in fatigue when it is close to time for their next scheduled infusion.
Do you know your Globulin and A/G ratios from years past and now? Do you know your Immunoglobulin levels now? If so - could share?
I will try to find something interesting I read about IVIG and post it here. In the meantime did you read Jenna's blog on IVIG?
posted
I am confused you say you DON'T want to do it? why not if it helps?
I will look up my labs and pm you when I get a chance. I only have them from after my Lyme dx.
Posts: 253 | From CA | Registered: Jun 2011
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susank
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Member # 22150
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I don't want to take Abx either. Of the two I much prefer IVIG. But will probably need to be doing both.
I know I need to detox. Ref. the Hindawi article - and toxins. I wonder what toxins they are talking about? General or specific? Lyme toxins might be neutralized - amongst others? (what would the others be?). Any ideas? Would be helpful to know.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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sammy
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Member # 13952
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Spindleshanks, please educate yourself about CVID before you decide to hold off on the the treatment.
If you truly have a primary immune deficiency then it is pretty clear to me that the only way you will have a chance at beating these infections is if you get the IVIG and antibiotics! You have an immune deficiency, you cannot fight this on your own.
I was diagnosed with CVID this past fall and started treatment with IVIG. I get the IVIG infusions every 4wks and feel better for a few days afterwards. My body still uses the IVIG up pretty fast. By the 3rd week my trough is very low and I feel terrible. We're gradually trying to increase my dose.
Now that I've had it and know what it can do for me, I would not willingly give up my IVIG! I feel very strongly that this is my lifeline.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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momintexas
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Susank - have you been on long term abx?
Also wondering if you have had your T Cell function checked?
Do you find that you still get sick?
Interesting that this post came up - we are dealing with this situation too....
Posts: 1408 | From Tx | Registered: Nov 2009
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susank
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Member # 22150
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MIT - no long term Abx. On and off past years. Mostly off.
I don't know about T cell function - if I have been tested. How is that measured? A certain test?
I don't get sick - I am just always sick. Pain, exhaustion, a hundred things - all day/night - always.
MIT - do you know your Glob - A/G ratios pre and post illness/Dx?
FWIW in regards to Myco P - I have tested positive for it Elisa-wise in the past.
Different labs/ranges previously - so I cannot really compare. But...FWIW:
After six months of IVIG my MycoP IGG per Labcorp this past Sept was about 450. Three months off IVIG - re-tested MycoP IGG by LC -levels were higher ie about 700.
In the book, "Insights Into Lyme Disease Treatment" Scott F. has an interesting page/paragraph about immune system modulation and detoxing. (page 398).
I think IVIG helps with both. Before going back on Abx I will be doing IVIG and trying to detox with something in addition to the IVIG.
I wonder - Scott - do you still hold with the "theory" you wrote about in this regard? Perhaps could paraphrase - update? - here?
Edited to add: I just thought to do google search for "Immunoglobulin G and toxins" and found this:
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