phyl6648
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posted
I have fought this depression long enough and am thinking of asking my doctor for an antidepressant. I have taken them in the past but didn't have good results, so many side effects. The time has come to try again now that I know I have lyme..
Those of you that take them would you share what you have tried and if they help..
I do remember seems like zoloft had the least side effects, I yawned a lot..and felt strange .. I will discuss this with my doctor but would like some input..
Posts: 1058 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
I was on zoloft for a while, it was the only one I could tolerate. It def helped with depression, but I couldnt cry....like at sad movies etc. I didnt like that I felt kind of emotionless. I tried cymbalta and couldnt handle it, i was nauseous and dizzy 24/7.
-------------------- Psalm 119:50 My comfort in my suffering is this: Your promise preserves my life. Posts: 292 | From Heaven | Registered: Jan 2011
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fflutterby
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posted
I am on Cybalta and doing fine with it. It seems to be helping a lot.
-------------------- Psalm 46 1 God is our refuge and strength Posts: 1367 | From North Jersey | Registered: Sep 2010
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randibear
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posted
i have fought this tooth and nail for years. the last doc gave me trazadone but man i couldn't sleep or anything on it.
new llmd gave me cymbalta, which i haven't filled yet, but will now that i'm back home
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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annxyzz
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posted
Low dose prozac or zoloft ( generic ) make a world of difference for me and are cheap.
I also take SAM E , fish oil, and lithium orotate tablet ( a MINERAL NOT A DRUG ) .
These all work together to make a big difference !
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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ktkdommer
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posted
I take celexa and have had good results. I first starting taking it years ago for energy when I was diagnosed with lupus. Within 2 days I knew that I had been missing something in my brain. I don't really cry anymore. Went to a funeral last week and felt embarassed that I didn't tear up. I felt sadder than sad but no tears.
My son takes Sam E and 5HTP.
My sister gained a lot of weight on cymbalta but really helped.
-------------------- Things are never dull. After 3 fighting Lyme, 2 are in remission. Youngest is still sick, age 22. He has new diagnosed Chiari Malformation and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. Posts: 1366 | From Perrysburg, Ohio | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
I was on lexapro for a while when pregnant, and that helped some. When I tried Cymbalta, it really messed me up - made the depression much worse. Now I've been on Zoloft for several years, and it works well for me.
-------------------- Wendy Posts: 253 | From Near Albany, NY | Registered: Jan 2009
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phyl6648
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posted
Thanks everyone.. I keep telling myself I can control this but no can do.. Think I will ask for a low dose of zoloft then 1/2 it..lol
Been a crying day well days so I need something to dry up the tears.
See the doc next month.. My doc wanted me to try oh gee the new one that starts with Savaie or something like that but I couldn't handle cymbalta so didn't want to go with one of its cousins...
Posts: 1058 | From VA | Registered: Oct 2010
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Carol in PA
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posted
Phyl, a low dose of zoloft may not work as well. You'll need to get the dose up enough to feel the effects.
It'll take several weeks or months to work up to a high enough dose.
Annxyzz had some good suggestions. Lithium orotate...look it up at iHerb.com and read reviews.
Fish oil can help the brain to work better. Look for one with very high levels of EPA, which will reduce inflammation and bring more blood to the brain cells.
OmegaBrite Country Life Omega 3 Mood Minami MorEPA
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phyl6648
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posted
Thanks Carole, will do.. I take a good fish oil.. Been thinking of trying Andrew Leesman's his are suppose to be one of the best...Also all his supplements but pricy...
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sparkle7
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posted
I'm going to throw this out there... There have been studies that going for a walk is just as effective as some of the drugs for depression.
From what I understand - depression is repressed rage &/or anger. Have any of you tried any psychotherapy rather than drugs? I'm not trying to minimize anyone's suffering but there may be other solutions.
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phyl6648
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posted
Sparkle, when I can get out I do feel better but lately I have felt so weak and bad I can't leave the house.. Yes being out and even though I can only walk a minute or two it does help...
I hate taking meds and yes I have lyme anger/rage and a lot of family "stuff" ... when my family problems slow down I sure can tell a difference..but seems there is no end to family problems that is with me..
annxyzz
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posted
Unfortunately some of us have a genetic form of depression that no walk or feel good movie will remove. When my depression started I race walked 2 miles daily on average . It helped with cholesterol, but did nothing for my depression.
I do believe walking can help with someone with mild depression or stress.
I take 75 mg zoloft ( switch to 20 mg prozac every two years and rotate back and forth when one seem to feel like it is pooping out a bit . Have used these 2 for 15 years with no problems . I take : fish oil ( GENEROUS AMOUNT ) sam E 400 mg daily ( works on different receptors - a wider variety ) L. O . tablet 1 daly ( cheap and help with cognition and anxiety ) 75 mg zoloft daily B Vitamins and extra folic acid to help my brain make the things that build serotonin Taking an antidepressant is a SMALL price to pay for being a more functional , cheerful , positive person who can believe that life can hold blessings even with a miserable disease . I thank God for these meds! Some of us really need them .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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posted
I've always relied on the older drugs... never have taken the SSRI's.
I take trazodone and sleep well on it. It helps with pain too.
I applaud you for taking this step. I think you really need it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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sparkle7
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posted
Respectfully, I'm not so inclined to buy into the genetic depression. I believe we can change our mind & thinking if we try. I know it's not easy. I have my own fair share of B$ to deal with...
It is possible to change the way you think. Sometimes, we have to face the demons & try to get our minds clear. Drugs are just a band-aide in alot of cases.
Maybe try Bach flower remedies. I know people who have had some good results with them. They are cheaper & alot less toxic.
BTW - I'm not necessarily anti pharma drug. It's just that there are studies that prove that they don't really work so it may actually be the placebo effect that helps people. The placebo effect is real - so, I'm not trying to be negative about it. It is good to know, though.
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annxyzz
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posted
There are studies that have cast doubt on the one you are probably thinking of .
Believe me a miserable person who has no appetite , feels anxious or panicky , feels hopeless or fearful for no logical reason is fully capable of determining if something prescribes drags them out of HELL .
If you have never suffered with this it might be hard to fathom . One day in the shoes of a person with this condition would convince anyone. It is torment and the sufferer blames himself for not being able to "get it together " .
There are some forms of depression that need meds just like other brain malfumctions . While mild depression may be alleviated by herbs or supplements , some people need meds.
My mom had depression as did my grandmother , and so does one of my daughters . My doc warned me that it could be passed on . I had no reason externally to have depression at all . It descended at age 33 out of the blue . And may I add that at the same time, my younger brother began struggling with it . He has taken a low does of prozac for 20 years and is very balanced and productive.
The genetic component is not fiction , though I wish it were when I look at my daughter 28 , who thrives with a low does of prozac ( 20 mg ) .
These meds can be the diffrerence between mental Hell and a good life , and a pill is a small price to pay for a full life .
When a person suffering finds the right meds, they can eat , sleep have normal sex drive, have more energy and concentraion, and can see the future as not a hopeless exhausting obstacle course . They start hearing the birds sing again, enjoy their food, sleep , can find pleasure in many normal simple things .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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sparkle7
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posted
Like I said... respectfully, I do understand - without getting into too many personal details.
If the pill helps, it's a good thing. I wouldn't want to deprive anyone something that could help. Some of the side effects are not too pleasant, though.
It's good to look into alternatives, too. I do believe that the mind can be flexible to some degree.
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sparkle7
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posted
FYI - (very big gov't comparitive study)
Comparative Effectiveness of Second-Generation Antidepressants in the Pharmacologic Treatment of Adult Depression
Efficacy and effectiveness. From a total of 2,099 citations identified, we ultimately included 293 articles in this review, which represented 187 studies of good or fair quality.
Of these, 89 were head-to-head randomized controlled trials (RCTs) and 57 were placebo-controlled RCTs; the remainder were observational or other types of studies or other qualitative or quantitative systematic reviews.
Of these 187 studies, 126 were financially supported by pharmaceutical companies and 17 by government agencies or independent funds; for 44 studies, we could not determine the funding source.
Overall, 38 percent of patients did not respond during 6 to 12 weeks of treatment with second-generation antidepressants; 54 percent did not achieve remission.
The evidence is insufficient to determine factors that can reliably predict response or nonresponse in individual patients. Seventy-two head-to-head comparisons (i.e., comparisons between medications conducted within trials) provided data on 35 of the potential comparisons between the 12 second-generation antidepressants addressed in this report.
Five trials directly compared any non-SSRI second-generation antidepressant with any other non-SSRI second-generation antidepressant; of these, only one comparison was evaluated in more than one trial. Many efficacy trials were not powered to detect statistically or clinically significant differences, leading to inconclusive results.
Direct evidence from head-to-head trials was considered sufficient to conduct meta-analyses for four drug-drug comparisons. Differences in efficacy reflected in some of these meta-analyses are of modest magnitude and clinical implications remain to be determined.
---
Quality of life. Quality of life or functional capacity was infrequently assessed, usually as a secondary outcome. Eighteen studies (4,050 patients), mostly of fair quality, indicated no statistical differences in efficacy with respect to health-related quality of life. The strength of evidence is moderate.
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sparkle7
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The makers of antidepressants like Prozac and Paxil never published the results of about a third of the drug trials that they conducted to win government approval, misleading doctors and consumers about the drugs� true effectiveness, a new analysis has found.
In published trials, about 60 percent of people taking the drugs report significant relief from depression, compared with roughly 40 percent of those on placebo pills. But when the less positive, unpublished trials are included, the advantage shrinks: the drugs outperform placebos, but by a modest margin, concludes the new report, which appears Thursday in The New England Journal of Medicine.
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
Large doses of B Complex (50-100 mg at a time) PLUS 300 mg of B 1 can really help with these situations. These vitamins are depleted from stress, chronic illness, and the lack of them in our current over-processed, chemically produced food.
In addition to the physical damage often caused by antidepressants, they can be physiologically addicting. This means that if a person tries to get off them, the physical pain and agony are so bad that they can't.
If you are doing any effective treatment, also, toxins are being released into your system, and these can cause you to be depressed because you are actually being poisoned! Taking something that binds toxins about 30 minutes before eating every time you can remember to do it can really help with this! Some examples are chloreela, apple pectin, chitosan (not OK for people allergic to shellfish), etc.
Please carefully read the adverse reactions page on any anti-depressant. These usually include WORSE depression, suicidal thoughts, suicide, homicidal rages and many physical difficulties, as I mentioned before.
Hope this helps.
Best,
Cass A
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Rumigirl
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posted
sparkle, I know you meant well, and maybe you do fine with supplements and walks, etc. But it is clearly not enough for some people. And all the more so when someone is really ill and battling a terrible disease that makes normal life and things like walks difficult to impossible. It is a disservice to dissuade people from making this hard choice.
Personally, I really need something myself, but have been endlessly frustrated with bad side-effects. And I do take all the supplements, which help, and do therapy, etc., etc. there is not always an easy fix here.
Plus, the studies you are talking about found this only for people with MILD depression, not serious depression. Big difference. I challenge anyone with this horrible disease complex long term not to get depressed!
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annxyzz
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posted
TO ALL HERE : Google " Antidepressants Protect Brain Web MD "
Antidepressants PROTECT brain shrinkage in the areas where the depression is most likely caused -the hippocampus .
The article explains how antidepressants are neuroprotective . This is fairly current research .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- B-vitamins are neuro-protective. So is FISH OIL & magnesium. It's best to first try the things that don't have a chance of damage.
Lithium Orotate is neuro-protective. Melatonin, too. Cocoa powder mixed with almond milk and stevia also helps the brain and mood.
I'm with CassA on this. Many antidepressants can damage the liver and create lots of other problems.
Some may not but be sure to find out who funds the studies.
Various different antidepressants, even in small doses, over time (years ago), caused me terrible problems that nearly cost me my life.
Anyone with porphyria or liver stress needs to be especially careful as many drugs can make depression worse. -
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Keebler
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THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTIONS
Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148
- by Anura V. Kurpad
Fifteen pages of text.
Excerpt from abstract on page one:
. . . In general, the amount of extra protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . .
[note: see what author states about lysine supplementation appearing to help immune function.] -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Paxil, an SSRI like Prozac, has been a miracle drug for me, with NO side effects. Within a few weeks of starting it, I felt NORMAL for the first time in my life. Crippling anxiety, depression, and panic were GONE.
Lyme can cause serotonin levels in the brain to plummet. When you take an SSRI, what makes you feel better is your own increased serotonin levels in the brain.
Depression can be fatal. Do not fool around with it.
As to the placebo effect, this phenomenon when it happens only happens at the start of treatment, but is not sustained.
If an herbal substance works for depression, it is because it is exerting a pharmacological effect on the brain. Herbs are drugs too.
Encourage you to find a good LL psychiatrist. Finding the right Rx for you is often trial and error.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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annxyzz
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posted
Thank you Keebler ! I appreciate Sparkle also as she frequently contributes helpful info that I have not come across.
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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- True depression is not about the way we THINK. It just IS. I'm the most positive person I know ( ) but I also know I need an anti-depressant. Mine is a long story, but basically I was unable to eat or sleep until I got on antid's 20 yrs ago.
Of course, Lyme was involved.
I never felt SAD the entire time this was happening to me. But I was already thin and I dropped 11 lbs in one week. That scared me enough to get help.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Dogsandcats
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posted
I have a family member on an antidepressant. Every once in a while he will drop off his meds cause he thinks he doesn't need them or can't afford them. Even if he weans himself off slowly, he still goes into a deep dive. He needs these meds.
I respect other points of view that a walk could do it for some, herbal could work for another and that some just need an antidepressant.
I always offer my opinion and suggest other ideas and then let it go, unless they ask more.
I would not want to have someone be more depressed than I could see or "diagnose" and have them hurt themselves or worse.
It is a delicate line to walk.
-------------------- God will prepare everything for our perfect happiness in heaven, and if it takes my dog being there, I believe he'll be there.
Billy Graham Posts: 1967 | From California | Registered: Oct 2010
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annxyzz
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posted
Lyme too , your experience mirrors mine closely .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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sparkle7
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posted
Rumigirl- it's not as if I haven't been there & done that... I've had some pretty big hurdles in my life. I've been ill for over 15 years. I have family members with histories of complicated physical & mental issues.
For a long time, science thought that our DNA was written in stone & couldn't be changed. Lo & behold the new field of epigenetics...
If the drugs work, great. I will never tell anyone to not take drugs. I know people who have severe psychological issues & refuse to be medicated. It is possible. It's up to the individual.
There are other options. The drugs are less effective than the drug companies lead on. Read the whole gov't study that I posted. It's a combination of hundreds of studies - some of which were funded by the drug companies. If a drug company funds a study - do you think it will be released if it says the drugs don't work?
At one time, they gave people shock treatment & lobodomies. I heard they still give people shock treatment & it's supposed to be effective. I'm not doing that any time soon.
Mental illness is very frustrating & scary. I have seen it first hand. I would avoid the drugs if possible. It's up to the individual to weigh the risks with the benefits.
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Maya12
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posted
I thought though that with proper Lyme and co treatment most of these mental symptoms would go away. I have had anxiety and OCD for many years since 16 but this all started after I had a really bad summer flu but was not given abx quickly enough to stop it and only for 5 days
My llmd thinks that is when I contracted Lyme and co.
Are some of these mental issues ones that most have had for years before contracting Lyme?
I was really hoping that treating Lyme and co would stop most of my mental symptoms.
How come this doesn't seem to be the case for some? Even with proper treatment?
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randibear
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posted
can depression cause weight gain??
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Randi,
Yes. But I see depression as a result of something else, most often. Infection can cause depression for various reasons.
Even aside from infection, with depression, usually something "before that" has gone out of balance. Even "just" adrenals (as is common with lyme). When the adrenal system is kaput, weight can nosedive or climb.
Same with liver stress. With that, depression is a sure thing. No one gets past liver stress without some turmoil with mood. And liver stress can cause weight gain.
You ask: " . . thought though that with proper Lyme and co treatment most of these mental symptoms would go away." (end quote)
Most often, yes.
The problem is that so many people are
not getting treatment for lyme (or other infections, parasites, heavy metals);
they may not be getting the
NUTRIENTS or
LIVER,
CNS,
ADRENAL support needed.
Many just don't have access and can't afford to treat the underlying REASONS.
ACCESS and AFFORDABILITY are huge barriers. And, it's just so complex that it's hard for anyone on their own to navigate the choppy waters.
When treatment of the underlying reasons aren't addressed (for whatever reason), symptom relief via antidepressants - understandably - is still desired. For some, it may help take off the edge. For some, the mood can improve. But sometimes, it can boomerang.
When this approach is taken, it's always best to start with the lowest possible dose. And, still, nutrition is still vital.
Going gluten-free was the best anti-depressant move I ever made. Dark cocoa powder, too. Nutritional Yeast and Sea Salt in water. Protein. Good fat helps my mood, too. (And I've not yet had "real" treatment for any of the TBDs).
My past disasters with various antidepressants, even low dose, put me in the hospital and cause so much pain. So, I want to help others avoid that.
Still, there are some out there who have been helped by antidepressants. I still am drawn back to trying to do everything nutritionally first, just to see if it's a certain deficiency, though.
quote:Originally posted by annxyzz: Lymetoo , your experience mirrors mine closely .
-and within 4 days of being on the anti-dep, I could eat and sleep again-
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Maya12
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posted
I thought though that with proper Lyme and co treatment most of these mental symptoms would go away. I have had anxiety and OCD for many years since 16 but this all started after I had a really bad summer flu but was not given abx quickly enough to stop it and only for 5 days
My llmd thinks that is when I contracted Lyme and co.
Are some of these mental issues ones that most have had for years before contracting Lyme?
I was really hoping that treating Lyme and co would stop most of my mental symptoms.
How come this doesn't seem to be the case for some? Even with proper treatment?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Keebler
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posted
- Maya,
I'm sorry. I had read your previous post as in future tense not past. Since you recently came here, I assumed that you were early in treatment, not finished.
But, then finished can have stages. For some, it can be several years to reach a solid remission. For some, six months.
Even along the way, if all the nutrients, liver and adrenal support are not enough, then you might try a small dose of an antidepressant and see if it works for your body. (With liver support also, though.)
However achieved, even during treatment, there are things to help support mood. Try to find one that is easiest on the liver.
Has your LLMD also addressed parasites?
Still, along the way, it can take a lot of trials to find that right combination and rotation of Rx and supplements.
Just ease into anything new. -
[ 05-02-2012, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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- explores the neurological and toxic ways that lyme and other tick-borne infections can affect emotions.
=======================================
While treatment can take some time, along the way, whatever we can do to help lower the inflammation can help. Magnesium helps reduce inflammation. So does Fish Oil (OmegaBrite is said to be excellent).
This is just one of many antioxidants to consider:
Are some of these mental issues ones that most have had for years before contracting Lyme?
- In my case, it was lyme. I had it for 42 yrs before being diagnosed.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Maya12
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posted
Hi Keebler thanks for the insight you are so wise. All I can say is what you have to say is very sad . Treatment needs to be far more accessible for all
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Cass A
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Another situation is that some meds actually have depression and other emotional difficulties as side effects. For example, the medication I have to take due to seizures from Lyme has, as a known side effects, suicidal thinking and depression and rages!! And, I do experience these, which I didn't before.
When these come on, I have to remind myself that it's the drug and not ME. Maybe take a B 1, if I remember that this helps!
Otherwise, I'd be reaching for the SSRIs, too!
Best,
Cass A
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Cass A
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posted
Dear Friends,
I got this message today after my previous post.
Best,
Cass A
Alliance for Human Research Protection (AHRP) Advancing Honest and Ethical Medical Research www.ahrp.org
FYI
The American Psychiatric Association, DSM-5 website, announced yesterday that it had dropped the most controversial of its numerous expansionist diagnoses: "Psychosis Risk" and "Mixed Anxiety Depression." They have been banished "for more study."
A diagnosis of "Psychosis Risk" would have misdiagnosed and exposed millions of children and adolescents to the scourge of neuroleptic (antipsychotic) drugs whose lethal risk profile is acknowledged by some of psychiatry's respected experts--seniors with independent sources of income whose clarity of vision has improved with age.
These drugs--Clozaril, Zyprexa, Risperdal, Seroquel, Geodon, Abilify and Eli Lilly's deadly combo, Symbyx (Zyprexa and Prozac)--are linked to debilitating, irreversible, life-shortening risks. These include: acute obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome, cardiovascular disease, and a shortened life expectancy of 25 years.
The drugs are currently being misprescribed for anything remotely resembling unconventional behavior. How else does one account for these drugs being the most profitable blockbusters?
As Paula Caplan writes in an OpEd in The Washington Post, "The DSM has an undeserved aura of scientific precision surrounds the manual: It has �statistical� in its title and includes a precise-seeming three- to five-digit code for every diagnostic category and subcategory, as well as lists of symptoms a patient must have to receive a diagnosis. But what it does is simply connect certain dots, or symptoms � such as sadness, fear or insomnia � to construct diagnostic categories that lack scientific grounding. Many therapists see patients through the DSM prism, trying to shoehorn a human being into a category." See: Psychiatry's Bible, the DSM, is Doing More Harm Than Good, Washington Post, April 27, 2012
Indeed, the now discarded, DSM 5 invented "diagnosis," of "Psychosis Risk" was an effort by the DSM -5 task force to legitimize the illegitimate use of these drugs--especially in children and adolescents is emblematic of the problem with psychiatry's diagnostic methods. . The DSM-5 panel sought to lend its seal to an undefined, non-specific, "diagnosis" based on conjecture about possible future pathology--as valid a diagnostic method as reading tea leaves.
According to Allen Frances, MD, chair of the DSM-IV, who has been a leading critic of the DSM-5 panel, this retreat by the DSM-5 is the first in its history. He attributes the retreat to 1) extensive criticism from experts in the field; 2) public outrage; 3) uniformly negative press coverage; and, 4) the abysmal results in DSM 5 field testing.
See: Dr. Frances' blog on Psychology Today, Wonderful News: DSM 5 Finally Begins Its Belated and Necessary Retreat
The DSM-5 Task Force is asking for public comment from now until June 15, 2012.
Vera Sharav
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Keebler
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posted
- Cass,
Thanks for those life-saving links. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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) but I also know I need an anti-depressant. Mine is a long story, but basically I was unable to eat or sleep until I got on antid's 20 yrs ago.
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