I'm hoping that some of you might have positive experiences to relay about parasite cleanses. I have not done an official cleanse (though I did kill off significant amounts of protozoans when treating with Mepron and Zith [and some Artemisinin] for 10 months- yes, Babs is one of my diagnoses) before, and I especially fear taking the short-dose of Biltricide that has been prescribed for me.
I can Herx along with the rest of 'em, for sure, and have many times in the past, but, I don't want to become violently ill from this cleanse.
I pray that I will only have to deal with abdominal pain and multiple trips to the bathroom (for diarrhea)...and not severe nauseau, vomiting, overheating, sweating and extreme air hunger (like I did for so long when I was hitting the Babs).
Sometimes I think that my body actually handles the horrific pain side of things (neuropathy, terrible headaches, etc.) better than it does a violent, on-going stomach flu-like response.
Any words of wisdom, here, would be greatly appreciated! Oh, and one more thing...can parasites be the cause of extreme hair loss? I have gone through phases of this since '03 (the time when it first became evident that I was sick with something terrible). Although my hair loss always improved, it seems that this time, my extreme shedding hasn't slowed. It doesn't help that I require to be on a beta blocker, which has been implicated in alopecia-like states.
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annxyzz
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I have not tried this one . I am reading impressive positive results with parasite treatment at SEVERAL other health boards . Most of those positives I am reading are related to fenbendazole , ivermectin, or albenzadole.
I am on ivermectin . I started feeling BETTER on it then quit til I got more info . You will probably herx . IMO it is better to treat every other day because die off is much more tolerable .
There are other boards where members share they have tried many ABX and never get better , then feel better with parasite meds . Definitely worth a try because it is working for some members here and for members at other boards . I am not reading many stories of improvement with antimalarials or ABX .
Some of the people on iver or albenza actually did not have severe herxes , they simply just started feeling better and were rather shocked . Others did have nasty die off . Personally if the die off is nasty I would treat every other day at most .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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NanaDubo
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I didn't find biltricide bad at all, nor albenzadole which I was on for quite awhile. Often feeling bad comes with the release of more toxins than your body can handle.
The timing of binders is important for soaking up the toxins and the heavy metals that are released when parasites die.
Search gigi's babushka principle. Things seem to go in that order or close to it when killing parasites. Metals, fungus, bacteria and viruses show up.
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Haley
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I did not have a herx from Biltricide, but I have been taking Iveremctin so I know that has killed stuff to lighten the load.
I was scared too as the pills are huge 600mgs. I started taking 2 at a time and then I bumped up to 5 (that's the correct dosage). If I could do it over, I would have started with 5 as I think it is more effective. I definitely think the Biltricide was hitting something as I felt better the following day and did see evidence in the toilet.
Frankly, I was shocked that there was not much of a herx. The tiny little 3mg Ivermectin was far stronger!
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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-annxyzz, thanks for sharing your experience with the ivermectin. I'll have to keep your treatment timing suggestions in mind.
-NanaDubo, thanks for commenting about your go at it with Biltricide. May I ask what you used as a binder during your bouts of parasite treatment/cleansing? Also, I tried searching for the info. from Gigi...unless I missed something, I didn't see any great detail about what you are referring to. I am definitely intrigued, however, and would like to know more about what you are talking about. Is this principle isolated to a parasite cleanse (i.e. the order that things show up)? By the way, I've read/heard that the taste of the Biltricide is just awful...how bad is it, really??? I happen to have a terrible gag reflex!
-Haley, I'm awfully glad to hear that you didn't Herx from the Biltricide. Thanks for sharing the results of your trial with it. May I ask how long you took the Biltricide for? Because of my situation, I am having to take 6 pills on two separate days. Then it's on to the next drug in my cleanse! By the way, I've read/heard that the taste of the Biltricide is just awful...how bad is it, really??? I happen to have a terrible gag reflex! Posts: 315 | From Negative (-) to positive (+) | Registered: Nov 2011
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Haley
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I was suppose to take 5 pills ever 5 days for one month. I sort of did my own thing. The pills taste like any other pill. It tastes like medicine as long as you swallow it down, it should not be a problem. you can split the pills in two and space them out through the day.
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Tammy N.
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I have had no issues with it at all, really. I'm about to do it again, as soon as I finish Albenza. Don't be afraid. You will be fine:)
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sparkle7
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I took a horse paste with ivermectin/praziquantel (biltricide). I believe it's mainly for flukes (& schistosoma (infection with a type of worm that lives in the bloodstream)).
It was Ok for me but I had done alot of herbs prior. It probably depends on your particular situation. If it gets too bad you can cut back (just my opinion & I'm not an MD).
You have to start somewhere. It's better to get them out then have them living off of you, literally.
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NanaDubo
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Lymebulldog - here is the post I was referring to. It is called
Recommended Order of Treatment -- The Babuschka Principle
For binders I use, chlorella, Sonne's Detoxificant (liquid bentonite), apple pectin, chitosan and sometimes charcoal. I go easy with the charcoal now because years ago I was taking too much of it and seriously depleted my mineral stores with it.
The other binders I mentioned don't have the same tendency to do that.
Parasites are attracted to heavy metals, we also produce fungus to protect us from the metals, etc, etc, etc.
According to the "principle" there is an order to which they released and so, an order to which they are treated.
Hope that helps.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Are you all treating on your own without a doctor? If so, how are your experiences and where do you buy the medicine from?
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annxyzz
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I am self treating . There are others who have had LLMD s who worked with them ( bea seibert I think ) . DR Klinghardt is usuing antiparasiticals with some of his patients and some of them are having very good results ( after never getting better with other drugs ) .
Dr EVA SAPI thinks a lot of lyme people have filaria via lyme borellia. Personally , I think from reading at other health sites there are more parasites involved . There are other lyme people who improved with fenbendazole or albenzadole when no other ABX or antimalarial ever worked .
There are also other testimonies of lyme people whose lyme sysmptoms went away after they got a positive test for a parasite and treated the parasite : strongyloides , hookworm , etc...
There are several people feeling better here at lymenet with ivermectin , fenben, and albenzadole. I think Ladyjenie has a doc, and you could PM her . Nefferdun has a doc .
I am purchasing at Tractor Supply vet med it is dirt cheap and pharmacy grade . Many buy overseas , but it is a hassle and expensive . The vet versions can be purchased often at feed stores , Tractor Supply , or Amazon.
There are MANY people witha disease called morgellons that ALSO have lyme. If you check the morgellons health sites many are having good results with fenben like Ladyjenie . Most of the morgellon people I read about at the Sites around the world are using fenben or ivermectin vet meds .
There are studies assoc CFS LYME with parasites google : Dr Eva Sapi lyme disease ivermectin Klapow Harvard study CFS lungworm FL 1953 protozoa infection There are MANY lyme CFS people who are finding they are infected with this / like nefferdun- many are trying ivermectin.
Also , Gael has had great results ( as many others with lyme and morgellons ) with a SALT VIT C protocol you can reda about at lymephotos
I have read postive responses at other health boards on this protocol - it appears to work for many people .
Some people may be able to eradicate parasites with herbs only . Frankly I am doubtful , but no expert on this subject .
posted
Thank you! Are you using Dr. K's protocol? How are you feeling?
Posts: 84 | From St. Louis, MO | Registered: Feb 2010
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annxyzz
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I started the iver - herxed hard and slowly started feeling better . I stopped it and went back to feeling lousy . I have more info and am restarting it . I am getting past the bad herx just now again ,and hope to get some energy again .
I will continue reporting .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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Haley
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I wonder where most people are getting Albenza. It's very expensive, there is one source from Turkey, I don't know if that's shaky to buy those.
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GiGi
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Biltricide (a germicidal detergent) for two days clears out the Liver Flukes and parasites that have migrated up the bile ducts. This is a very important portion of the protocol.
I did several months of freeze dried garlic moving up to 9 capsules a day (strictly Organic Biopure) before doing pharma parasiticals. That made all of Dr. K. parasite protocol almost uneventful. Garlic is anti-everything including anti-metal and lowers the toxic burden all the way around.
That was about ten years ago when very few doctors even thought of parasites as a major contributing problem. After replenishing the few missing nutrients, Dr. K. starts most patients with parasite treatment. His first publication on this subject was in 2004 -- read Looking Beyond Antibiotics.
Don't be afraid - it is a very important part - best wishes!
Broad-Spectrum Dewormer Oral Suspension for Use in Cattle, Sheep, and Goats for removal and control of liver flukes, tapeworms, stomach worms (including 4th stage inhibited larvae of Ostertagia ostertagi), intestinal worms, and lungworms in cattle and sheep and for the treatment of adult liver flukes in nonlactating goats
NanaDubo
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Haley, albenza was prescribed by my doc in WA and transferred to a local pharmacy . Insurance covered most of it.
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annxyzz
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nanadubo are you feeling better with albenzadole?
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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CD57
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And I have to ask this.......people who were not getting better on ABX were trying to treat bartonella and Lyme and myco and babesia......with all the Dr B guidelines......and then treated parasites and saw some gains?
And you can have parasites with no GI symptoms, but neurological/encephalopathy and cardiac?
SO confusing. Why would the LLMDs keep beating a dead horse and not try parasite treatment?
Also this 5-6 week dr K protocol does not seem long enough based on what you read about paraistes.
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annxyzz
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From Someone who knows very little : My opinion, a simple gut feel from spending many hours reading multiple health sites about parasites and lyme disease is that there are definitely people whose sickness seems to get better once a parasite med is added . Not saying it is a cure all , and the person may feel worse at first with the meds .
And you are right , this is no quick fix . You have to treat a long time !! People who have parasitical illness in other countries do not get well in a couple of doses . BALONEY .
THE PROBLEM : doctors in US ignore parasites ! They tell patients that we do not have them in US or will not test . I am reading blogs all over US where there are people testing pos for strongyloides , ascaris, lung worm, etc .. evenhokworm . From what I read metametrix is best parasite lab , but still tests are unreliable . In my opinion it is sensible to test the waters on your own with the meds if ABX have not helped much . ( And I do not know anyone personally who has gotten much better unless diagnosed early ) .
The reason I state this is because parasites are a definite possibility and they are totally ignored !! Instead the LLMD prscribes antimalarials and ABX OVER AND OVER AND OVER . Then he gets creative and switches a new one or a combo of two . I wish I could read lots of success stories about this working or knew one person it worked for . Not being negative, just stating fact .
I can not see trying parasite meds on your own as more folly than rotating endless ABX or antimalarials !!! That is why I am trying it .
The thing that impressed me was reading morgellon's sites . MANY or maybe most morgellons people have lyme disease . They are desperate ! Amazing to report , but there are morgellons people all around the entire world with pictures of their affliction and similar stories. In the US they are usually labeled with delusional parasitosis . Delusional, my arse !!! People around the universe can not make up the same stories and photos .
Getting on with my point , a lot of these people took ACTION, suspecting a parasite and started experimenting . Lo and behold , fenbenzadole starts making people all around the world better who have morgellons .
It is annoying that these docs humiliate the sick people and then ignore the root problem and declare there are no parasite problems .
There are people here who are treating parasites and some are feeling better after having no luck with LLMDs . I am not saying all lyme people will get well with these meds. But I bet there are people here whose "lyme " symptoms and myco , and EBV , and all of the other ****E would dissipate with them . Call me crazy , but look at Gael . Look at nefferdun .
I think some people here have parasite infections and no ABX will kill the worm .
I admire the morgellons people for taking their health into their own hands and marching to Tractor Supply . It is a joy to read their stories around the world that so many are feeling better .
Yes you can have parasites with no GI problems . They can also cause breathing problems . Just imagine a hungry family of worms fornicating , eating , partying and defecating inside you while you attack them with something that does nothing - an ABX ! I read stories of people with parasites in other countries who got treatmnet and they usually felt worse before better as the organisms die . That is why it might take time to see if they work , not just a dose or two .
Why would LLMD continue beating the dead horse ? MONEY . Money . Money . He will not try anything different because his colleagues might think he is weird or because FDA might question him.
I think a lot of docs want to be celebrities and assoc themselves as "experts of CFS or lyme " to sell books, speak at conferences , and make a name ($$) for themselves . EGO is part of humanity .The problem is that they ARE not experts ! Every person I know personally with an LLMD is still struggling and has not improved on ABX .
As for me , I will continue testing the parasite waters and hope for improvement like Dan , ladyjenie , nefferdun, tyammy , and boxermom . I hope I will have a good result - who knows .
I will say that I made far more progress with rife and artemesia annua and grapefruitseed extract than all of the ABX I took for three years ! God blesss each struggling soul and may we be as courageous as the ridiculed morgellon's people who are finding answers on their own after being humiliated by the US medical system .
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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ukcarry
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Annxyzz, a truly impassioned and articulate post.
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NanaDubo
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annxyzz - to answer your question, yes, I am feeling better.
Lyme has not shown up for me with ART testing for a long time. The fact that I had it in the past does show up, but I imagine that will always be the case.
Lyme may never have been the biggest issue for me - hard to tell since the symptoms of metal toxicity and parasites are very similar to lyme and hard to distinguish one from the other. They are usually all there in the same boat.
Finding a doctor to treat parasites is key. Several NDs in my area do not believe people have them and rely only on stool testing. I had those tests done and nothing showed up.
My doctor in WA found them with ART, my symptoms and my own knowledge of what these symptoms probably were.
The many dead things that I have passed leave no doubt in my mind. If my doctor had relied on the tests..... well, I'm glad that did not happen.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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dbpei
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Lymebulldog, how are you doing after a few weeks on your new parasite cleanse protocol? Hope you are feeling better.
Posts: 2386 | From New England | Registered: Aug 2011
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Haley
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Can you give us an update? I sent you a PM also.
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GiGi
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posted
If you are, like almost everyone living on this planet, is toxic from heavy metals and some of the 80,000 chemicals, when you do the parasite treatment and eliminate some of them, you are releasing these very heavy metals and associated toxins into your system.
If you want to benefit from parasite cleansing, you will have to very forcefully make sure you use toxin binders several times every day. If you do not, you will simply reabsorb these toxins back into other or same body compartments where they came from. You need to make every effort to avoid this endless merry-go-round.
This same idea applies to any die-off you cause by being on any abx protocol.
We are toxic. We got sick and were defenseless because of this toxicity when microorganisms, such as Lyme and co moved in.
You will have to address all - all the time - if you ever want to get out of this. Just remember that if you are finally successful in eliminating the parasite load, you need to capture the toxins they were holding in their coats. To some degree, the parasites protected us and let us survive somehow. Though we cannot sit by and do nothing about parasites because they multiply in huge numbers every day.
The EMF exposure that we all try to live with every day causes the microorganisms to multiply even more, especially the viruses.
All of this is much easier if you can find someone who does ART or other good muscle testing. Even learning your own methods with pendulum or tensor is a godsent.
You need to move the toxins out. Killing alone will not do.
Chlorogenic acid as contained in Green Coffee Bean Extract (available at Amazon) helps clear toxins, often stored in fat, if you add in good binders. I added Diamotaceous Earth to my array of binders. Read up on both of these.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Haley
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Gigi - what are your thoughts on IV chelation therapy.
I don't really "get" binders. Most of the binders in capsule form will bind what is in the gut. It seems to me to bind toxins in the blood taking binders would not work.
I am taking binders, but can tell that there are more toxins to address. My doctor does IV chelation, am thinking about doing this.
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bcb1200
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GIGI...
Noticed Dr. K's protocol calls for 6 weeks of Rizol Gamma plus garlic before staring Biltricide / Alinia.
Did you do this before adding Biltricide?
I just started GArlic today. 1 capsule. Will up to 3 / day in a week and go up from there. I may be stinky!!
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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GiGi
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bcb1200, I did all of these type protocols years ago; in fact, before Rizol Gamma was available.
My whole treatment then concentrated on Organic Freeze Dried garlic - tons of it. I started low but took 9-12 capsules for many weeks.
If I did this kind of treatment now, I would put it all into the KLC (Klinghardt Lyme Cocktail) with Phospholipid Exchange, artemesinin and everything else I test for.
I did not take abx longer than 3 months and used mostly all the naturals that we knew about back then. We have so much more to work with today.
Google the "Klinghardt Lyme Cocktail" if you cannot pull it up here on LN. It has been talked about and I know I posted about it.
You can slow down with garlic when taken to titration and before your friends stop coming over!
Be sure you take binders to get the neurotoxins (metals and die-off dead proteins) out of the body to avoid reabsorption.
People on the Dr. K. protocol only take what they test for via energetic testing/ART. It helps a lot if you can learn some form of testing yourself (with tensor or pendulum) or find someone who can test you with ART or other means. The body tells this way when it has had enough at a certain point, which doesn't mean that you won't be taking it again a day or a few later. But it avoids overload when the body can't handle more.
I would only take Biltricide when it tests well. Parasites should be treated early. Parasites are the largest of the microbes and why try to kill the small fry (bacteria and viruses) first before the big ones. Doesn't make sense. The small are easier to get at when the big (parasites) are out of the way.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
regarding antiparasitics... I saw on another board that people are indeed feeling better while on antiparasitics - but once they stop, all the symptoms return. One guy was claiming that all these antiparasitics do is suppress inflammation and cytokine response.
I'm on the side of antiparasitics and hope they are a permanent solution to folks here (bring you to a new baseline), but it would be good to hear both sides.
Posts: 655 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2007
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GiGi
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When you go on an antiparasitic protocol and are successfully clearing some of them out, if you do not detox the metals during and after the parasite treatment, you will not get permanently well. You may feel better for a time, but unless you then treat and detox the metals being released by the die-off of parasites, you will not reach your goal. The metals/endotoxins/neurotoxins have to be removed to avoid any setbacks.
I have described this fact in almost every post of the thousands I have done on this site. I do not understand why people do not seem to understand this.
All neurotoxins/metals, etc. can cause the same symptoms and it is difficult to distinguish one from the other. Dr. K. repeats this fact in every lecture of the many I have heard.
Parasites are the knights in shining armor -- they hold the toxic metals in their coats while they are taking our best nutrients from us leaving us the the junk. They do not live in the colon living of digested food --- they live further up the road getting the best.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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poppy
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If people get symptomless on antibiotics and antimalarials, but relapse without them, as so many of us do, then it can't be parasite involvement, can it? This is why lyme docs use abx.
So, I think Ann is off base in projecting her own situation on all other patients. This is typical of patients who assume everyone else is like them, and what works for them will work for everyone else.
And many people just do not have the strength to go on endlessly searching for what else might be a problem and doing as many protocols as Gigi has done.
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