posted
Not on any abx but have been taking oil of oregano, allicin (enteric coated), coconut oil and chewing cloves the past few days.
I definitely feel a bit worse- more weakness, cognitive dysfunction and overall fatigue.
I am only taking small amounts of each, and I thought they would be gentle but I really do feel wiped out.
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
Oil of oregano is VERY strong. Good stuff, but VERY strong. So is fresh garlic. Probably a good protocol, especially if you have candida, but I can see how it would wipe you out.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
holey moley! I only took 1 oil of oregano gelcap and 2 garlicin enteric coated tabs every day for the past three days. The oregano cap is tiny and is a blend with olive oil.
This is my first time taking OOO so I don't know how to place it's effect.
I did 4-10 raw garlic cloves a day for a few weeks, so I don't think this reaction is from the allicin (unless the enteric coating is really changing the dynamics it's distribution).
If it is a herx, it should probably subside in a few days, right? I want to stay on this combo for at least another week.
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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Keebler
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posted
- I would not be able to tolerate what you are attempting. At all. All 3 really, really "hot" herbs are likely just too much all together. They should be balanced with other herbs.
It's good that the allicin is enteric coated but that can still clobber you with a herx.
Cloves are strong. Maybe too much for you. I cannot imagine chewing even one clove. It's so very hot and can burn tender internal tissue.
Oregano is much stronger and can burn, even if a gelcap.
You might try cutting way down in dose and then slowly back up again - best if you can get advice from a LL ND, though. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Some of the links here address BALANCE of "hot" herbs with others more neutral.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links, etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- I don't think it's ever good to prompt a herxheimer reaction. Still what can help:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.
--------------------------------
I can't "do" the hot herbs (other than some allicin as part of an overall protocol). Here are some "cool" or "neutral" herbs that work better for my body but, still, low start is vital.
OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT � LINKS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Back to the idea that "hot" herbs can be far too strong.
Lyme is a very "yang" disease, it's irritating as all get-out, angry, aggressive.
So, cooler herbs (more nourishing and less irritating) are often best, or at least best to have in the higher proprotion with just a bit of the stronger herbs along.
A "yang" hot herb for an angry disease often makes the illness worse.
Paraphrased and simplified. Links in the ND set explain better but I think it was a LL ND who got me to understand that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I heard that OOO is actually a cooling herb. Anyway, the dose is already as small as it gets (1 tiny diluted gelcap).
I'll probably stop the cloves for now. I've been on them for a couple weeks (first the tea, then chewing them).
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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Keebler
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- OOO - is that Organic Oregano Oil? Just to be sure of the term.
Sorry, that is not cooling in nature at all - it can burn tissue if not in a gelcap. It is a very hot OIL, it's very concentrated. Not like adding the raw HERB, plant matter to a recipe.
Now, it may be for other purposes, to induce sweat that may be what you'd heard - and that a sweat can make one FEEL cooler in summer? Might that be what you mean? In that way, yeah, hot foods and hot herbs can make the body better adapt to hot weather.
But, for purposes of treating lyme, OOO is very hot, indeed, internally. Even a tiny amount. It can be surprising. Sure was for me.
My guess is that there is something else that could bring this into balance, though. Hope you feel better soon. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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If you feel cold while taking oil of oregano, it may benefit you to take warming herbs such as cinnamon twigs, cinnamon powder, ginger, ginger powder, garlic gloves, cloves. Some of these can be encapsulated and ingested with water. For example you may find, cinnamon powder, as well as ginger powder at your local health food store. You can purchase empty capsules there as well.
These warming herbs can help balance the cooling effects of Wild Oregano Oil.
Note: Oregano Oil is a cooling supplement, and if you have a Yang Deficiency or an aversion to cold, you should seek the care of a qualified acupuncturist. Oregano oil can depress the yang energy of the body. In particular during the period 2 weeks prior to and after the Winter Solstice taking Oregano Oil regularly can leave you with a Yang Deficiency."
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- thanks for that link. It does not match the information I've seen on OO, though. nor what my NDs have taught. My experience with OO is that it truly burns, not cooler to MY body.
The language of herbs is very intricate, though, and alot can be lost in translation even with terms that seem to be clear like "hot" or "cool" and I'm no expert.
I hope you find your balance - and a good LL ND who can help find what works best for you all along the way through all the changes. Most often, it's just a matter of backing down on the dose or tweaking here or there. Take care. -
[ 01-15-2013, 02:42 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I am not very versed on any of the Chinese herbal methods so I haven't really formed opinions on it yet.
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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quote:Originally posted by VV: holey moley! I only took 1 oil of oregano gelcap and 2 garlicin enteric coated tabs every day for the past three days. The oregano cap is tiny and is a blend with olive oil.
I took it in drops and only took one drop at a time for a long time. It's a tough one.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I tried oregano oil a few years ago. It is very expensive and burns the crap out of your mouth. I didn't notice all that much benefit, so I stuck with the fresh raw garlic. Every time I start any antibacterial herb I get worse before I get better. I think it just means it is working.
If I am herxing really bad I back off for a day and let the toxins clear. I think the Drs. do that with ABX. Don't they call that pulse treatment?
-------------------- Lymer since 89 Namaste Posts: 52 | From Fort Worth Texas | Registered: Jan 2013
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posted
"I don't think it's ever good to prompt a herxheimer reaction."
Keebler,
Sorry to be picky, but doesn't it seem inevitable if you are going to treat this disease or related conditions (candida, parasites) that you will experience a herx?
It seems to me that almost everyone has to encounter a herx here or there and push through (unless it too severe).
Of course I don't really want to herx, but doesn't it seem like a necessary evil?
Posts: 922 | From Philadelphia | Registered: Sep 2012
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posted
I started right off the bat with 10 drops.....nada.
No burning either.
I know someone else who has used it and herxed immediately.
Posts: 478 | From Third Coast | Registered: Feb 2011
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Keebler
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posted
- Q: Re: herx - "but doesn't it seem like a necessary evil?"
You are correct in that there seems no way to make this a walk in the park. It's rough and tumble, for sure.
There are ways to ease into it. Yes, herxes will happen but some LLMDs feel it's best to not PUSH that. AND always have adequated support methods in place first and all during.
Anytime the organs of detoxification are overwhelmed, more damage can occur and the mission goal is compromised. The body can only clear out so much at one time.
An intentional harsh or pushing a herx can also damage the adrenal system even more from a "toxic shock" -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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posted
- Hope you are feeling better now and found some middle ground.
I appreciate what you posted earlier about the cool-hot questions of oregano. I've been giving that some thought and remmeber that MINT is a cooling herb but that the MINT OIL can also burn hot. I think they are related.
When I have the brain power it will be fun to learn more about at what point it can go from cool to burning. I think it has a lot to do with the concentration & dilution of the oil. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks Keebler. I stopped the OOO and garlicin for a few days. Still a little bit behind here.
I realize I am also confused about what constitutes "hot" and "cold".
I would presume that I have a Yang deficiency bc of a history of slow digestion, cold extremities and low body temp. You say that Lyme is a "hot" condition, but what does that mean?
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