posted
My LLMD has instructed me to take antibiotics for 6 weeks. I am very aware of the harm this can do to my gut flora and immune system. I am especially worried because I have unresolved candida overgrowth.
So my questions are…
1. I've had Lyme for at LEAST a year, antibiotics alone probably won't do anything in this case, right?
2. What herbs should I take alongside the antibiotics to ensure or at least heighten the chances of healing?
3. Also, what herbs/supplements (besides probiotics) can I take to limit the negative effects of the abx on my gut flora/candida problem?
Thank you!
Posts: 13 | From danville, ca | Registered: May 2015
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Keebler
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- PROBIOTICS - take a couple hours away from Rx by both clock directions. Start several days or a week BEFORE antibiotics.
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- You say that your "LLMD has instructed me to take antibiotics for 6 weeks."
Are you sure this is a true LLMD? I can't think of any LLMD who would limit treatment on the front end. Treatment often takes much longer, requires at least two different antibiotics AND other kinds of Rx to address the cystic form.
And it cannot be limited to 6 weeks. The combinations are often rotated as well.
I understand your concern about gut flora still there are ways to help with that, listed above.
Treatment for lyme MUST be strong enough and long enough.
Now, there are other ways to approach. In the liver support link, see the LL ND links and the RIFE MACHINE links, too. But, no matter what approach, 6 weeks is not going to cut it if you've been ill for a year at this point. Sorry.
Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I second the probiotics. If you could only take one supplement, take a good probiotic.
Posts: 63 | From Columbus, OH | Registered: May 2015
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WPinVA
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posted
If you've had Lyme for at least a year, it doesn't make sense to limit abx upfront to six weeks. This doctor may not truly understand Lyme. Please ask for LLMD recommendations on here and/or call your local Lyme support group.
And, also when you find an LLMD, you should be evaluated for co-infections.
Along with a good probiotic, I like taking digestive enzymes. It seems to help the probiotic work better.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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Catgirl
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posted
Agree with Keebler, six weeks of abx is not enough if you've had lyme for a year. But maybe this doc is trying to see what your symptoms will be once on the med.
Is your doc a real LLMD? A lyme literate doc (LLMD) knows how to treat lyme. It's never just lyme, there are almost always co infections that come with the tick. You also need a blood test from IgeneX. It is the primary test LLMDs use (more sensitive than mainstream labs).
You absolutely must take probiotics or abx will destroy your gut. My doc only put be on 36 billion, and it wasn't enough.
Treating lyme requires a multiple approach, changing diet (gluten free, sugar free, dairy free). Make sure to eliminate sugar or you will suffer from the abx.
Have you read Burrascano's guidelines yet? Lots of info there (under Medical).
Lemon water will help you with herxing.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I miscommunicated what i wanted to say. My NON-LL naturopath diagnosed me with Lyme after an Igenex test.
I then went and found a LLMD. He wants to make 100% sure that I have lyme, since he believes false positives have a 2-3% chance, especially since I had a lot of IND on my Igenex test.
So what he wants to do is put me on antibiotics for six week, to RISE up the lyme bacteria/spirochetes/whatever and make them more present, and at the 6 week mark, take the Igenex test AGAIN to get more of a clear picture.
So I correct myself, he wasn't thinking that the 6 weeks would heal me. He just wants to be sure before starting me on such a hardcore treatment plan.
What are your guys' thoughts on the method he's using here?
Posts: 13 | From danville, ca | Registered: May 2015
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Catgirl
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Okay, that makes sense (no worries). That's what happened to me as well. My IND bands turned positive on my second test after I took abx. The correct diagnosis for lyme is a clinical one, not a blood test, but the test just confirms it.
Do you have symptoms? Most docs know how well lyme hides and start treating based upon symptoms. Once I started taking abx other co infections turned up (symptoms). Co infections almost always come with the bite. I would keep a journal so you will remember to tell your doc.
Have you read any of Stephen Buhner's books yet on lyme? Buhner uses herbs to treat lyme and company. Some people take them with abx as well.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
My symptoms are fatigue, brain fog, nausea, digestive issues, food allergies, loss of libido, depression, mood swings, MORE brain fog/confusion/fatigue after eating, and pain the the lower left abdomen.
All of these are characteristics of Candida however, which I was diagnosed with simultaneously to Lyme.
That symptom list is sooooo candida. My guess is that Im feeling the effects of only candida, and the Lyme is hiding dormant. I am afraid that if i mess around with antibiotics just to "prove" a positive, it'll bring the Lyme out and i'll feel 100 times worse. Is that something that can happen, or will I feel the same?
Posts: 13 | From danville, ca | Registered: May 2015
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posted
I am reading this post and answers and just confused. I was advised differently on this message board the 2 things you are saying that your LLMD is saying/doing. I was told that there are no false positives and that you should never retest for Lyme?
Posts: 78 | From Pa | Registered: May 2015
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Catgirl
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Bis, I know whenever I post there are no false positives I mean: a positive is a positive, so the person absolutely has lyme. IMO retesting is a waste of time if the person wants to wait for a positive test result to treat, so IMO people should just start treating immediately.
Also even though docs re test, lyme is STILL capable of hiding. For this reason, not all docs re test. This is why the correct diagnosis for lyme is a clinical one (symptoms).
Rowenofpts, yeast is there because of the lyme and more. Your symptoms are also lyme symptoms. There is no way I would ignore the lyme. That said, I hear you about taking abx. There are people who use alternative methods to treat lyme and they do recover. You might consider a Dr. K practitioner.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Catgirl
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Bis, I know Robin responded to you on the post below. There is risk in retesting and getting a negative. Insurance companies would love nothing more than denying you. This is another reason why not all docs retest.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Keebler
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- rowenofpts,
You say: "My guess is that Im feeling the effects of only candida, and the Lyme is hiding dormant." (end quote)
I do not know why that assumption is made. Your symptoms, every single one of them, matches with lyme, as well as possibly influenced by other tick borne infections . . . with candida.
Someone might post a list of lyme symptoms for you. In article form, much explained here:
This article is essential reading to gain an understanding of what it's like to HAVE lyme. This can be frightening, yet it is informative -- and then empowering so that symptoms and patterns are not so scary. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
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- Are you certain - absolutely certain - that the doctor you see is ILADS educated and truly lyme literate? It does not sound like it from what he says about false positives and not knowing what to make of all the IND bands.
IND (indeterminate) bands are actually basically weak positives. LLMDs know that. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Catgirl
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Rowenofpts, I just found this link where TF had a better experience treating yeast first.
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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Keebler
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- Looking back at your posting history, you have a positive test, with a lyme specific positive bad to boot. You do NOT need another lyme test.
Please refer to the replies here that explain why:
I could not open the link you gave but others must have been able to and remarked such as Band 31 being positive, etc. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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WPinVA
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I have heard of another LLMD doing an antibiotic challenge. I'm not sure about the effect it would have on the Lyme tests... in our case, I was told to watch for a Herxheimer reaction.
That was in a case with very thin results from Igenex and very few symptoms. Plus no positives for co-infections.
In your case, though you really DO have a lot of Lyme symptoms.
Have you been tested for co-infections? Positives there would be telling.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
wPinVA: Is that considered a lot of symptoms? Most of you guys seem to have it pretty bad, a lot worse than Im experiencing. Sure my performance is incredibly hindered at work and relationships, but I am still able to get up in the morning and go through my day. Are a lot of you bedridden? May you guys please describe the intensity of your illness before you started treating it?
And I have not been tested for confections. He said he suspects bartonella if anything.
Keebler: He for sure is ILADS certified.
Posts: 13 | From danville, ca | Registered: May 2015
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WPinVA
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Well, there is a huge range, so it's hard to generalize but I think that's somewhere in the middle. Some people are bedridden, and some are muddling through.
A lot depends on what mix of co-infections you have along with the Lyme. I personally have babesia duncani and that hits you like a truck, so I was bedridden in the beginning. I have heard that Lyme comes on more slowly.
Also a lot depends on what strain you have, was this your first bite, your immune system, how well you detox, your genetic makeup, other health conditions, etc.
I think what you said about "sure my performance is incredibly hindered at work and relationships" is pretty telling.
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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WPinVA
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And ask to be tested for co-infections! That should be tested for upfront!
Posts: 1737 | From Virginia | Registered: Aug 2011
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quote:Originally posted by bis: I was told that there are no false positives and that you should never retest for Lyme?
- Retesting to determine a diagnosis is different from retesting later in treatment to decide if a person is healed. The latter is a waste of time and money.
To test one month later after an antibiotic challenge is a good idea if the first test was negative. I did that in my case.
Once you get a positive .. LEAVE IT ALONE!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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