posted
Maybe doing both could be a lot - what about trying one at a time? Cats claw is powerful stuff - don't know about the other one.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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Jordana
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I'm doing okay by my third dose. I feel a huge rush in the first couple minutes, then I've got something that would be manic energy if I actually had the energy to be manic -- then I crash and get cranky.
Thusly went the first day .
Posts: 2057 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2015
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Keebler
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- Three doses of two new items on day one? That's got potential to boomerang for you, as it sounds with the ups and downs.
It usually not good to take more than one a day, one dose when starting something new. Give your body time to adjust. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Brussels
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Kleeber is right. Just go slow!!!
It looks exactly like a herx to me though! I herxed about 15 minutes after intake of cats claw for 2 years, almost non-stop. I know this herb through long term experience!!
It takes just 15. 20 minutes to feel herxes starting (I'm extremely thin and sensitive to most things...).
cats claw will kill some Borrelia, in my view. Then if you add a viral killer like Takuna (which I do not know though), it is way too risky (I mean, on day 1!).
I would just wait a few days with one herb, then introduce another.
The worst is when you crash and you have no idea from what.
What about binders and stuff to clean your body from messy cascade of die off symptoms?
If you can still walk around after a couple of weeks, it means you are strong! I hope your liver and kidney survive the ordeal!
I would go much slower than you and certainly prepare my binders.
As a beginner, I took only killers (herbal ones, like andrographis, cats claw, Japanese knotweed etc), then crashed LITERALLY, ended up in hospital, thought I was going to literally die with whole body paralysis, unable to breathe.
It was 'just' a herx! Unfortunately, I learned later that the medical literature describe herxes as able to kill patients. So really, start slow! When you gain experience, move forwards!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Jordana
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These herxes-- these really bad herxes where you end up in the hospital, do they resolve on their own?
I have not reallt herxed yet I don't think.
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Brussels
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A herx can be light. When toxins reach a level your body cannot detox (liver, kidney, gut, lymph all over loaded), then your problems start.
I guess the best lesson is when we crash literally, but it is not fun...
I wonder why some practitioners do not treat herxes as FIRST line, but let patients to decide what to do...
I hope you won't crash like many of us did, but if you do, take that as a lesson.
MSM (sulphur), detox teas, milk thistle, magnesium, Vit C, chlorella in high amounts, clay, charcoal, bear garlic, Omega 3 high doses, detox homeopathics, whatever you do to support your body detoxing is gain-gain.
A herx for me can be like:
- feeling dizzy - anxiety going up - increase of brain fog
- lack of air - fatigue - pressure in different parts of your body (liver, gall bladder)
- pain in kidneys - stomach aches - loose stools, GI problems
- bad dreams (nightmares) - high blood pressure - increase of pains (arthritis, for example)
- craving for certain foods (I craved oily foods, as I think oils, eggs, butter, whatever oily), as I suspect these bind to toxins
- problems with sleep (wake up suddenly, can't sleep deep)
- menstruating: you get increase of blood (my naturopath told me the body tries to eliminate these deadly toxins at all means, and increase of menses is one way)
That is what I can remember (my own symptoms).
Of course, infections go crazy with herxes. They do increase, and flare, in my experience.
Example: candida infections will go really high if you let toxins in the body.
I think the immune system gets so compromised with die off toxins that it can't do anything against candida (my feeling).
Taking ONLY killers is a bad way to treat lyme and candida. You got to take binders and stuff to support cleaning, your organs, or you MAY feel miserable one day, sooner or later.
that is one of the first lessons we learn during lyme treatment. AT least, that was my case. Some people detox better than others, but I can't detox well.
And herxes is the way pathogens evolved to block the immune system to attack them.
So the equation is simple: more toxins, less immunity, more pathogens in the end.
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Jordana
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Thanks -- I've been taking burbur and pinella and smilax -- this is what I started with a couple days ago before I got into the takuna and cat's claw. Three times a day with the rest of the protocol. I was hoping that would help with some of it.
Smilax is so yummy I could drink it all day.
But speaking of cravings -- yeah -- BUTTER. I wanted it on everything yesterday.
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Keebler
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- "Smilax is so yummy I could drink it all day. "
If you were to do so, you would soon have the worst lower stomach cramps of your life. Proper dose is key. Smilax is very powerful. It will demand our respect.
We have a lot of control in the matter of a herx, as Brussels points out above. Other ways to take control: don't push treatment too hard or too fast. Ease up to it.
Always - always - have key support on hand and always have other items on hand to rotate when needed. Be prepared. Pace yourself.
But also just don't expect any treatment to make you feel better right away. The toxicity of lyme does not often allow that. What helps:
LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Jordana
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I have been curious about the smilax. I keep wondering if it kills borrelia or not -- it seems there's some vagueness about it.
Keebler I've been watching "under our skin" and yolanda foster. I was expecting to feel a whole lot worse -- in fact I'm prepared to get back into bed at any moment.
Could still happen, I know.
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Brussels
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Smilax is the food of Smurfs (Strumpfs), the blue little cartoon dwarfs!
Buhner's herbs do not kill directly in general.
He says so in his books. Each herb has hundreds of chemicals, that is why we can't say: it kills, it doesn't kill. What chemical kill? What about all other hundreds of chemicals? What if they do not cancel the effect of some chemicals?
Herbs are not drugs with simple chemical components. They are MUCH more sophisticated. A herb never will do one thing, but probably does dozens, if not hundreds of things we don't even know.
It is impossible to set a study of all single chemical components of ONE herb, and even more impossible to set a study on interaction of components!! Just to make things worse, same herb will have different sets of chemical (different amounts).
What is clear, is that many lyme sufferers like Sarsaparilla (I couldn't take it for longer, but I did take it too).
One herb I loved was Astragalus. Whatever he said (that is not good for chronic sufferers), my body loved that!! I could take it for very long, without any problems.
After he received many positive comments about astragalus from chronic lyme sufferers, Buhner changed his view about Astragalus helping only acute lyme sufferers.
I loved astragalus, really. Very mild, eaten as food in china.
Good you are taking burbur and pinella too!
Good luck!!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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