My Dr. whose working on my gut issues said I should never have coffee.
He eluded to the fact that it can cause pain in your body?
I've never heard of that. I'm sure it's terrible if you do have gut issues like me.
What do others do?
Posted by Toppers (Member # 20083) on :
I drink a ton. Nothing good happened when I quit and it's my only vice. It does not interfere with my sleep.
Posted by jkmom (Member # 14004) on :
I still drink it, but not after noon. I do not have any pain or sleep problems.
I also don't have any gut problems, though.
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
It's acid forming in the body which means it can increase your pain.
I cold brew my coffee and this removes 70% of the acid. This helped my pain overnight (literally). And I no longer have heartburn.
I'd say it's the acid that is bothersome to your gut and there are low/no acid coffees out there now. Or learn to cold brew - it's the best tasting coffee and I'm totally addicted!
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
Coffee for me, caused "major" anxiety once I became ill. I use to drink 2 cups every morning, before LD. For some reason even de-caf causes the same feeling.
Not sure if it causes pain or not, or gut problems. You can always do a trial off of it and see if you see any differences.
I would give a million if it didn't cause me such anxiety. I use to love drinking my coffee.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
I drink 1 cup of decaf daily. I haven't had caffiene since starting treatment.
Posted by geo (Member # 18333) on :
Same as BCB. Reduce or eliminate caffeine, sugars and carbs. Takes the fun out of things but better for everyone's health (lyme or not).
Posted by kimmie (Member # 25547) on :
My liver Doctor says the best liver protectant is coffee. He said drink 3 cups a day...so I do, & I dont even like coffee.
It is a great antioxidant & hepatoprotective.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- However, lyme patients are to avoid caffeine as it can just trash the entire adrenal system. Coffee's acid also can eat away at the already compromised lining of the stomach and intestines and contributes to acid reflux.
GREEN TEA, however, contains far less caffeine but it's balanced by other calming ingredients so the adrenal system actually benefits from 2 - 3 cups a day because of the balance.
GREEN TEA is very good for the liver, too.
There are many other great antioxidants and liver protectors.
Avoid coffee unless organic and hexane-free DECAF.
GREEN TEA has may good properties and it helps antibiotics work much better.
STEVIA (from plants) can be used to sweeten. SweatLeaf or Trader Joe's are good brands. Some are not a pure as they advertise to be.
Dr. Burrascano's Treatment Guidelines (2008) - 37 pages
Sections regarding self-care:
From page 27:
CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY CLEARED:
1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired.
** 2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps.
3. Absolutely no alcohol!
. . . [more details at link above]
==============================
The reason to avoid coffee:
Remember that lyme really messes up the HPA axis (Hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal network). The pituitary has much to do with weight/growth. Mess up any part of the endocrine system and other parts suffer, too.
See page 4 where Dr. Burrascano describes a bit about the considerations of the dysfunction with the HYPOTHALAMIC-PITUITARY AXIS -
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
I drink mine black. Just as Toppers said... I need one vice.
Doesn't interfer with anything that I know of.
In all this 'yuck' we have to deal with, I figure one 'nice' thing to do for myself is to still enjoy this lovely black drink!
I can sleep fine actually.... even with the lyme and with coffee.
As with anything, this disease effects us all different.... Do what you feel best for your own body. Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Yeah, this is a very rough ride and we do need things that we can enjoy.
The thing is, though, that even just one "vice" can be the tipping point in our ability to achieve success - or not. LLMDs' advice is not to be mean or to deprive us of enjoyment, but to help us have the best chance possible.
We are not naughty school kids if we go against their advice but impacts that we may not see now could clobber us down the road.
Even if sleep is okay, coffee can make it very hard for the adrenals to function - just adding more stress. So, if that advice is not followed, at least be sure to have the very best adrenal support possible to counteract the stimulant action.
If coffee's grip just won't let go, be sure to only consume ORGANIC coffee to avoid some very harsh chemicals. Organic Decaf is a good option but still may contain caffeine. Some brands are very flavorful.
There are so many ways we can enjoy flavors in beverages and in foods just by making some adjustments. Green Tea has opened a whole new world for me. And my stomach is far happier. -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Going back to the first post, tickalter writes:
"My Dr. whose working on my gut issues said I should never have coffee. He eluded to the fact that it can cause pain in your body? I've never heard of that" (end quote)
Yes, search Google for "LEAKY GUT" - also search the archives here. Leaky Gut is a very serious problem that will cause wide-spread body pain, indeed.
Also search the library at ProHealth.com and the CFIDS Chronicle for the best articles -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- This just barely touches on the literature detailing problems related Leaky Gut: ------------------------------------
Melissa Kaplan's Chronic Neuroimmune Diseases site
LEAKY GUT SYNDROME
National CFIDS Association, 1(2), Fall 1997
1/3 of the way down, Excerpt:
Leaky Gut Syndrome Enzymes deficiency, irritants such as alcohol and drugs, chemical preservatives, food allergies and toxins create inflammation and contribute to the Leaky Gut Syndrome. Nutrients are not properly absorbed, creating nutritional deficiencies.
Food particles that normally do not pass through the intestinal tract leak into the bloodstream creating toxic and allergic reactions. Antibodies (the body's defense team) attack these invaders as if they were infections but are unable to kill food particles.
These food particles may look like the body's natural enemies (antigens) on tissue. In its exuberance, the immune system can attack joints as in arthritis; collagen and skin as in lupus; the nerve sheath known as MS or multiple sclerosis; or muscles as in fibromyalgia.
Irritable bowel, with constipation, diarrhea, abdominal bloating and swollen extremities, can result from leaky gut syndrome.
Dr. Allen Tyler from Thorne Research states that both the central and autonomic nervous systems are involved and there is a physiological change in the connective tissue.
Muscle pain creates physical inactivity, resulting in muscle weakness.
Hypersensitivity to pain can result from chemical changes taking place in localized tissue. Increased norepinephrine, along with reduced serotonin and endorphins, amplifies pain messages to the brain. Headaches often result from muscle tension, while temporomandibular jaw (TMJ) joint pain is also common.
Even numbness with no neurological impairment can be part of this problem. . . .
Simon Martin, BioMed Newsletter, Issue 11, May 1995 -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- For anyone with gut issues, body pain or neuro issues, celiac should also be assessed.
Still, even if celiac it not involved directly, many LLMDs want their patients to be Gluten-Free for many reasons. If the gut is compromised, success over lyme is highly unlikely.
Discussion thread: Allergie-Immun Germany -
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I can't drink coffee although I love the smell and taste. It turns me into a nervous wreck.
I drink one cup of black tea in the morning every day. I wake up delighted that it is time for this wonderful treat.
Posted by Need Lots of Help (Member # 18603) on :
Mojo,
What is cold brewing coffee?? Sorry, I have never heard of that before!
Thanks!
Posted by cleo (Member # 6646) on :
There is a whole thread on cpnhelp.org under "experimental therapy" where vanderbilt u is using caffeine as a helper to pull cpn out of cryptic form to be easily killed without a cyst buster. Can't see why it wouldn't work for lyme. I never understood the reason for no caffeine. It has a ton of health benefits everything from being antibacterial to liver protectant. I have started adding in no doz with my abx and can tell you I herx from it.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I believe the reason for no caffeine is for sleep. I never slept worse when I drank it or better when I didn't. Caffeine wasn't the reason I had insomnia when I was sick .... I was off caffeine for well over a year and it didn't help.
Posted by cactus (Member # 7347) on :
Like six, I thought the reason (from Dr B) for no caffeine was the sleep issue.
My LLMD okayed my morning coffee, as long as it was not interfering with sleep.
Sleep is critical for beating TBDs.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- I don't think it's cold brewing coffee - but beans that are cold water processed.
It's not just the sleep issue but the stress on the entire endocrine system. The HPA is hit hard from lyme. Caffeine adds stress. If coffee is needed for energy, that is a sign of adrenal weakness. It will only get worse with caffeine. Adrenal support is necessary, then.
It also rips up the stomach, affects blood sugar (causing hypoglycemic crashes), and irritates the nervous systems. It can affect heart rhythm, too. All these things are already way off kilter with lyme.
Yes, as with may things, caffeine has some helpful and some hurtful properties. Questions to ask for the helpful properties: is there another way to achieve the same thing? Regarding antioxidants, yes.
As for the Cpn research, yes, it's important to consider that and weigh the findings. But if something has adverse effects, there still may be other ways to achieve the positive effects.
Questions to ask if it seems to not affect me: is any system adversely affected? How is the lining of my stomach, my irritation level, my heart rhythm, my adrenal function, etc.?
If I really need this pleasure even if it hurts me? Are there other things that would bring me enjoyment, flavor, a bit of a boost (without the crash)? -
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
no coffee, no soda for 1 1/2 years. i don't like feeling like a truck hit me. but now with mornings getting chilly, i miss a hot cup of coffee.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- Green Tea sure is feeling lonely these days. :-( -
Posted by INEBG (Member # 27690) on :
Doesn't green tea have a lot of acid in it? Is decaf green tea (organic from TJs) safe?
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
It's brewed overnight in cold water then filtered. It's concentrated so it lasts a week or ten days, depending on how much you drink.
Coffee is number one source of antioxidants August 29, 2005 Coffee provides more than just a morning jolt; that steaming cup of java is also the number one source of antioxidants in the U.S. diet, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Scranton (Pa.). Their study was described today at the 230th national meeting of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest scientific society.
"Americans get more of their antioxidants from coffee than any other dietary source. Nothing else comes close," says study leader Joe Vinson, Ph.D., a chemistry professor at the university. Although fruits and vegetables are generally promoted as good sources of antioxidants, the new finding is surprising because it represents the first time that coffee has been shown to be the primary source from which most Americans get their antioxidants, Vinson says. Both caffeinated and decaf versions appear to provide similar antioxidant levels, he adds.
He cautions that high antioxidant levels in foods and beverages don't necessarily translate into levels found in the body. The potential health benefits of these antioxidants ultimately depends on how they are absorbed and utilized in the body, a process that is still poorly understood, says Vinson, whose study was primarily funded by the American Cocoa Research Institute.
The news follows a growing number of reports touting the potential health benefits of drinking coffee. It also comes at an appropriate time: Coffee consumption is on the rise in the United States and over half of Americans drink it everyday, according to the National Coffee Association.
Antioxidants in general have been linked to a number of potential health benefits, including protection against heart disease and cancer. For the current study, Vinson and his associates analyzed the antioxidant content of more than 100 different food items, including vegetables, fruits, nuts, spices, oils and common beverages. The data was compared to an existing U.S. Department of Agriculture database on the contribution of each type of food item to the average estimated U.S. per capita consumption.
Coffee came out on top, on the combined basis of both antioxidants per serving size and frequency of consumption, Vinson says. Java easily outranked such popular antioxidant sources as tea, milk, chocolate and cranberries, he says. Of all the foods and beverages studied, dates actually have the most antioxidants of all based solely on serving size, according to Vinson. But since dates are not consumed at anywhere near the level of coffee, the blue ribbon goes to our favorite morning pick-me-up as the number one source of antioxidants, he says
Besides keeping you alert and awake, coffee has been linked to an increasing number of potential health benefits, including protection against liver and colon cancer, type 2 diabetes, and Parkinson's disease, according to some recently published studies. But there's also a downside: Java can make you jittery and cause stomach pains, while some studies have tied it to elevated blood pressure and heart rates. More research is needed, particularly human studies, to firmly establish its health benefits, Vinson says.
While the findings would seem to encourage people to go out and drink more coffee, Vinson emphasizes moderation. "One to two cups a day appear to be beneficial," he says. If you don't like coffee, consider drinking black tea, which is the second most consumed antioxidant source in the U.S. diet, Vinson says. Bananas, dry beans and corn placed third, fourth and fifth, respectively.
But don't forget about fresh fruits and veggies, the researcher cautions. "Unfortunately, consumers are still not eating enough fruits and vegetables, which are better for you from an overall nutritional point of view due to their higher content of vitamins, minerals and fiber," Vinson says. Dates, cranberries and red grapes are among the top fruits for antioxidants on the basis of concentration (antioxidants per serving size), he says
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
I think the worst part of the coffee is the acid - it's what is tough on the stomach and just bad for the body.
Cold brewing (yes it's brewed cold for 12 hours and it makes a concentrate) removes most of the acid and makes a great tasting coffee.
My pain levels decreased overnight and I do not have heartburn anymore. I used to have a burning esophogus all day long. I also gave up sodas a few years back. That stuff is nasty!
I make mine with half decaf and use "Fair Trade" or Organic only as coffee is a very 'dirty' product.
Posted by 17hens (Member # 23747) on :
mojo, two questions.
Can you drink the cold brewed coffee hot? As in, does it taste as good when heated?
And when you make it, does it smell good like brewing coffee? That's the part I miss the most about not drinking it - smelling it!
thanks, hens
Posted by mojo (Member # 9309) on :
You are supposed to add boiling water - but I like mine so strong I microwave it after I add a little water.
It smells and tastes like the best coffee you've ever had. It smells good while brewing, too.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I'd be curious how many people get better while still drinking coffee.
Posted by stillwater (Member # 30312) on :
I'm good for two "large" cups of coffee each day, just milk, no sugar.
I can give up most anything.
Can't give up coffee. Doesn't make me jittery, but I never drink it after noon. If I do, it does affect my sleep.
My hypo/pit axis is already screwed. I'm congentital Hypopit. I supplement with thyroid and hydrocortisone. Used to supplement with HGH until I switched insurance companies. When I tried to get the records from my former endo, they had thrown all my old records away, including the test that proved I needed it. New insurance company won't pay for testing.
But back to coffee. I literally have a cast iron stomach. Nothing upsets my stomach, not even doxy.
If I didn't have two cups of coffee in the morning I wouldn't be able to leave the house.
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Update from my 9/2010 post above. I now drink caffinated...usually 1-2 cups in the AM. No caffiene after 2 PM.
No issues for me.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I have been doing mostly organic decaf now. Don;t miss the caffeine most days which is a good thing.
Posted by Robin123 (Member # 9197) on :
On my tired days, coffee keeps me going - I don't think there's any other caffeine substitute that's as strong, is there?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
richedie - I got better and I never gave up coffee.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by NanaDubo: richedie - I got better and I never gave up coffee.
What did you give up?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
For a short time I gave up wheat. Then I did Allergie-Immun which took care of the wheat allergy at a DNA level. Worked on healing my gut for quite awhile and now I eat what ever I want.
The only thing I really gave up was abx - a long time ago.
Posted by chiquita incognita (Member # 30381) on :
I would suggest that the ginsengs are a way to gain energy, strengthen adrenal gland function, without the caffeine. Some ginsengs will be more stimulating than others: Korean ginseng is a "hot" ginseng used for recouperation in old age or when there is severe debilitating fatigue. Eleuthero or Siberian ginseng is more "cool" and less stimulating in nature, is more balancing to adrenal gland function. Codonopsis is called "poor man's ginseng", is really a different plant class but has similar functions. It strengthens digestion and aids adrenal gland function without as much stimulation to those glands as the other ginsengs. To use the appropriate ginseng for your constitutional needs, *over time* can aid energy levels (not an instant caffeine high). Be aware that "hot" ginsengs like the Korean are not indicated for longterm use except in convalescence. It can over-stimulate and tire out the adrenals over time, so eleuthero is best indicated for long term.
I love the product by New Chapter ORganics called Stress Take Care. It is really well formulated and helps to perk up yet balance adrenals.
Sometimes the adrenals need calming to recoupe, not stimulation. Holy Basil also called Tulsi is very good for this. Aids sleep too and calms the nervous system while slowly and gradually strengthening hte adrenal glands, over time. A good sleep aid.
Benefits of adrenal strengthening: Adrenals aid the body's ability to cope with stress, help immunity, energy levels, influence blood sugar levels to some extent, sex hormones and other body functions.
Caffeine boosts the nervous system, which is why the energy goes high, but then it crashes. The over-stimulation of the nervous system can drain it in the long run, and of course it' s already severely impacted in Lyme.
I agree with others who have posted about the acidity of coffee and the residues it leaves in teh body, opening the system up to inflammation and auto-immune attack. Small amounts may not harm, but excess surely does.
Coffee (Enemas) do open up the gallbladder ducts and help to clear gallstones, etc. according to Linda Rector Page, ND in her book Healthy Healing. However the info that it is a liver protector is just bogus. I have some formal training in herbalism and understand why the doc touted its benefits to the liver, but in fact the acids and the over-stimulation of the nervous system will only *strain!* the liver. What was s/he thinking?
Milk thistle is the best liver protectant that there is. Extracts of milk thistle (silymarin) fed to laboratory rats prior to administering the poison amanita mushroom, which causes liver hemorrhage and death, protects the liver 100% from the deadly poison!!! This is widely known in herbalism circles, but you can read about this in Potters Herbal Cyclopedia by ethnopharmacist Elizabeth Williamson. Phytotherapy authority Christopher Hobbs writes in his book Natural THerapy for your Liver that silymarin (different than using the whole milk thistle herb) injected into people who accidentally ate the poison amanita mushroom, saves 100% of human lives so long as it is administered within 48 hours of the exposure. It is believed that the herb's constituents bind to receptor sites and block the entry of poisons. YOu can read about this too on the government medical database www.pubmed.gov Milk thistle aids new liver cell growth, in addition to protecting it. Even cirrhosis patients who have scars on their liver, can achieve normal liver enzyme balance with milk thistle and other paired-up herbs alongside, even if the scars themselves never go away. This is according to Christopher Hobbs in his book Natural Therapy for your LIver.
Schizandra also is a liver protectant but also tonifies adrenal and other glandular function, aids immunity and recouperation strength.
Leaky gut is potentially extremely serious. It can even lead to gallbladder cancer as the bile (secreted by liver and concentrated in the gallbladder) becomes toxic from leaky gut, and backs up into the gallbladder. This according to Dr Leo Galland on the site www.healthy.net As molecules float in the blood which don't belong there, they attach to cells which then are mistaken by the immune system for "non-self" causing auto-immune attack (MS, lupus, osteoarthritis, other serious things). Food particles will make it through the compromised digestive lining into the bloodstream where they do not belong. Coffee acids would be *extra* irritating and could contribute to liver/gallbladder cancer in this situation. The liver doc is wrong, sorry to say it.
No statements above have been evaluated by the FDA. This information does not diagnose, cure or prevent any disease. This information does not substitute for a physician's personalized advice. Drugs and herbs may interact, talk with your doctor.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by NanaDubo: For a short time I gave up wheat. Then I did Allergie-Immun which took care of the wheat allergy at a DNA level. Worked on healing my gut for quite awhile and now I eat what ever I want.
The only thing I really gave up was abx - a long time ago.
Allergie-Immun? Does that really work? You know others it has worked for? A friend of mine has a terrible gluten sensitivity and maybe I will recommend it.
Posted by mattnapa (Member # 26414) on :
I tried giving up coffee and switching to green tea this week.
Had pretty good headaches every day for a week. Also I am struggling with allergies, so I decided to try another time.
When do the headaches normally begin to subside?
Posted by NanaDubo (Member # 14794) on :
richedie - there is a VERY long thread worth reading.
Yes, I know a number of people who have had many things corrected - kind of like rebooting your hard drive. I would read the thread if you haven't.
Allergie-Immun Germany is the title of the thread.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
quote:Originally posted by NanaDubo: richedie - there is a VERY long thread worth reading.
Yes, I know a number of people who have had many things corrected - kind of like rebooting your hard drive. I would read the thread if you haven't.
Allergie-Immun Germany is the title of the thread.
A few times I posted questions in the thread but got no response. I still haven;t seen anyone in the thread say they feel better.
Posted by anjiell (Member # 28322) on :
i have to agree with keebler and others about coffee and leaky gut.i have terrible gut issues and the pain i experience under left ribe cage/intestine gets way worse with coffee.although i do believe there are benefits to coffee if you devolope yeast/bacterial overgrowth probs in gut forget it.i just wish could heal this intestine issue.everything aggravates it.once the left intestine pain starts all hell breaks loose,fogginess,leg cramps cannot eat solid food just liguids until subsides.
Posted by Camp Other (Member # 29797) on :
I think one can drink coffee just fine, but it depends on the individual and the condition of your digestive system. If you are having gastritis and ulcers, it's best to obstain from coffee until the lining is healed and in the meantime, drink green tea (organic, caffeinated) in the morning.
I *love* coffee, and it's one of the few things that have helped give me any focus or brain during the day at all when I have been doing worse than I am now. It even helps with improving memory... Research bears this out:
Okay, it's only one study that's recent. I have fun finding research that supports my habit.
Still, it's one of the few vices I have and I'll do a big cup of half-decaf a few days a week or small full caf daily with milk and sugar less often - and drink it slowly over a few hours for s sustained effect. It works.
Posted by richedie (Member # 14689) on :
I get worried because it is one of Dr. B's requirements. No caffeine that could disrupt sleep.
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