This is topic Who here REGULARLY cheats on their diet? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.

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Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Just wondering...I know it is best if we all follow an all organic / natural / low (non) carb, low (non) sugar diet.

But, as a 6'2" broad shouldered male I just can't take the diet 24x7. I snap and need to have "real" food that makes me feel full.

Once a week I'll have Pizza and Ice Cream with the family to feel "nomal." But lately I've been cheating more than ususal. The holidays are hard and I have a sweet tooth.

I'm on a lot of antifungals. Nystatin, GSE, Oil of O, Olive Leaf Extract, etc. I also scrub my mouth / tongue regularly and have no thrush visible.

So far, I haven't had any major yeast issues that I'm aware of.

Just wondering what others were doing.
Posted by lymeinhell (Member # 4622) on :
I pretty much fall off the wagon on Saturday or Sunday each week for some reason. (oh and on holidays goes without saying). That said, I've been off abx 6 yrs now.

But when I was really really ill, I was such a yeasty mess that carbs or sugars in even the smallest amount made me dizzy, messed with my stomach and gave me joint pain. As I got better, I'd allow myself some sugar free ice cream or dark chocolate occasionally - because I just needed to be weak and feel normal once in a while.

I still take Oil of Oregano daily, and occasionally take Diflucan for a week. Without it, I'd no doubt be a mess yeast wise.

There, now that we've fessed up, others may too. You are not alone....
Posted by penguingirl (Member # 28688) on :
I'm lucky that I have no sweet tooth whatsoever.

However I love savory things. Luckily I don't care too much for bread.

So my cheating consists of eating prob more carbs (gluten free rice chips) than necessary, dipped in hummus. And white rice.

I also occasionally have ketchup with my eggs and since ketchup has sugar I guess no-no but only once in awhile.

Today I have been 100% good though!
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :
I cheat all the time

To much to list:)
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
I think as long as it's called a diet and one thinks of cheating, success is doomed.

I will never be on another diet as long as I live. Still, I am very committed to a refined food plan. So, there are certain foods I choose to always avoid (gluten being one group) - and some foods I will most often avoid, allowing for a bit of planned flexibility.

I can get all the levels of texture and flavor of any desired food in many other ways. That's what makes my "food plan" work. It's all about flavor.

If I eat something that is not good for me, that can mean a couple more months of feeling awful and being out of life. It's just not worth it. Gluten can negatively impact the brain for up to six months. Since I know that, in my case, gluten can trigger seizures, I just don't play with that kind of stealth explosive. Ever.

However, I never feel deprived. There are so many other choices.


gluten 7497 abstracts

gluten, brain 142 abstracts

Gluten, neurological 132 abstracts

gluten, vestibular 3 abstracts

gluten, inflammation - 209 abstracts

A couple abstracts from those searches:

Gluten sensitivity in multiple sclerosis: experimental myth or clinical truth


. . . Our findings support the associations between antibodies against gliadin and tissue transglutaminase to multiple sclerosis. . . .


Orv Hetil. 2008 Nov 2;149(44):2079-86.

Neurological and psychiatric aspects of some gastrointestinal diseases

[Article in Hungarian]

Aszals Z. Semmelweis Egyetem, Altalnos Orvostudomnyi Kar, II. Belgygyszati Klinika, Budapest


Up to 85% of patients with histologically proven coeliac disease have no gastrointestinal symptoms; consequently, measurement of antigliadin antibody titre is therefore vital in all cases of idiopathic ataxia.

Complete resolution of neurological symptoms is the result of gluten-free diet.
Posted by penguingirl (Member # 28688) on :
Well when I'm healthy 100% I do want a celebratory meal - lobster mac and cheese.

And chilly cheese fries.. mmm

Good thing that guy on the TV show Man Vs. Food does not have lyme -or else he would not be able to eat all those foods!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
So, how else might one get the FLAVOR of chilly cheese fries (which really no one with a human heart should be consuming)?

When we reach beyond the version presented in fast food joints to figure out the FLAVORS and how to present those in a different fashion on our plate, then we are that much closer to a winning food plan for life, so that living can be easier.

This might work: Oven baked, crispy potato slices (from a thin coat of avocado oil), with a sprinkling of chili powder & sea salt and a spoonful of real grated cheese just before serving?

Steamed lobster, some Tinkyada brown rice penne cooked in chicken broth to make for a creamy sauce - adding just a bit of sprinkled real cheese topped and toasted brown. Topped with Hungarian paprika.

Served with a big green salad - and oven toasted broccoli spears that were marinated in avocado oil and wheat-free tamari?

Avocado oil is suggested for oven toasting foods as avocado oil is less likely to smoke.

[ 12-01-2010, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by steelbone (Member # 14014) on :

Love lobster mac and cheese:)
Posted by RESOLVED. (Member # 24991) on :
Am I so dumb? [Smile] What is lobster mac and cheese??
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
Uh...mac and cheese with chucks of lobster (Maine Lobster) meat.
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
I'm not telling---I'm afraid of what Keeble will say to me! You're the best Kebble, keep these people in line!!!
Posted by FYRECRACKER (Member # 28568) on :
I love ketchup and eggs!!!!
I cheat when its important for my sanity and to function...which is usually around my cycle.
And even then its not a full blown cheat.

Sorry bcb, I know you're a guy and that doesn't apply [Smile]

I also have to cheat a little around the holidays but do my best to keep the ingredients natural.
Posted by JOLA (Member # 23498) on :
red wine - I don't care what anyone says. Its a gift from God!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am very careful about my diet but my glass of red in the evening has kept me feeling like life is sort of normal. Moderation is the key to all things.

I refuse to let this disease become ME. My health is steadily improving - thanks to the ABX and many natural protocols I am employing.

Use common sense and don't over-think this. It will drive you insane.
Posted by gmb (Member # 23562) on :
Ditto on the red wine.... cut way back since starting abx and the low carb/gluten free (almost) diet. But that would stop when Flagyl is started.
Posted by djf2005 (Member # 11449) on :
I cheat all the time, but the key here is a balanced diet w/ many fruits and veggies.

If you read in depth about the gluen free thing for Lymies, it does not make sense for all.

Most fungal infections are in fact NOT fed from flour products, becuase the strains are so far from one another.

This is not to say that a gluten free diet will not reduce inflammation and possibly speed recovery, but I did it for 2+ years w/ little change and just went back to my usual balanced diet and have made great progress (and I was as sick as one can get).

Again, the key here people is BALANCED, not restrictive.

I have a protein shake every am followed by some fruit such as organic apples or bananas followed by a Cliff bar followed by a sandwich for lunch followed by a balanced protein, starch, and veggie dinner.

Retaining weight and allowing your body a fighting chance at what it is dealing with is more important (IMO) than losing weight and remaining gluten free.

When the body is deprived from carbs, potassium and other much needed electrolytes become non-existent making the body MORE susceptible to infection than normal.
Posted by penguingirl (Member # 28688) on :
Ok I have some food questions while we're at it-

Are there certain nuts that we should avoid?
I'm not a big nut person but don't mind pistachios and cashews..

How much vinegar should we consume? I know we're supposed to be on an alkaline diet so not sure if vinegar is ok? I figured for salad dressings, it's pretty much balsamic vinegar and olive oil? or apple cider vinegar, rice vinegar?

I just read Keebler's post on a healthier version of chilli cheese fries. Thanks - I will have to try that!

Is coconut oil sweet tasting? I never had it before so not sure what it would mix with.
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
Keebler, I wish you could come and be my personal chef. [Smile]
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
I heard... and do... avoid peanuts. I think they cause inflammation? I also avoid cashews unless they are organic because the major brands/cans/ packages all say --"peanut oil" as one of the ingredients!

My son likes the coconut oil on toast... I don't, so I add some sunflower butter or almond butter.

My LLMD said drink apple cider vinegar (ACV) I make a salad dressing with blueberries, ACV and stevia with a dash of nut oil -- and it's delicious. I sprinkle pecans on a green salad with some turkey... mmmmmmm good.
Posted by rmsfnc (Member # 27539) on :
All the time. bread daily, pasta, potatoes, just can't handle it and live with a normal family. I do eat alot of fresh vegies and meat but my snacking is all carbs and flour products. I'm an early diagnosed Lymie as well (3 months from bite) and don't have any yeast issues, etc. So far so good.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Avoid peanuts due to the mold factor .. same with pistachios.

If you have pain, it's best to avoid nightshades .. and peanuts are a nightshade.

All the cheating will come back to haunt you. I pray you will never have candida like I do.

rmsfnc.. You are headed for disaster.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I think I go into denial, avoid white sugar but eat honey instead.

I am a sweets addict. If I make some "healthy" whole wheat bread I will eat the entire thing.

I make frozen yogurt in summer - eat it all. I make carrot bread with walnuts, coconut oil and some honey - eat the whole thing. Everyone else gets a token slice.

I am hopeless. Keebler is right. I wish she would send me her cook book.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
I'm mostly an arm-chair chef. With an inner ear in pieces, I rarely have the energy or ability to stand long enough to make a complete meal at one time. Most of the work is really in planning it all out, though.

First, I do not believe in being as so many try, "low (non) carb" - For me, that can be fatal. Seriously, I think the terms can be misinterpreted.

"Low carb" can have different interpretations. It may be easier to think in terms of "simple" and "complex" carbs.

We need carbohydrates in order to live. For anyone with any kind of porphyria, a low carb diet can be dangerous. Trying for a "no carb" diet, IMO, is just not possible for any living person. Vegetables contain carbs and we need LOTS of vegetables. The cells of our body need the natural food sugars. Without carbs, we die.

So, I do best with low to moderate glycemic index WHOLE foods and nearly zero processed foods (other than rice pasta a couple times a month). But with the addition of all the red and black rices, I really don't even want rice pasta.

A holiday dressing with all the herbs and spices of what I grew up with but with black rice instead of bread is a real winner - as a small side dish, not for stuffing my face with bread that would just expand and put me into the blimp category.

We do have to rethink food and why we eat it. What's going in? What's it going to do for my cells? Is the flavor superb? It should be.

I do also get 5-6 grams of sugar in one once of 85% dark chocolate. And that's all I want of it, really. It works okay for me and it may or may not for others. Due to porhyria, I'm required to have a tiny bit of sugar to keep from porphyria attacks. Key word: tiny. A tiny bit can do.

But foods rich in BETA CAROTENE are the first line of protection against elevated porphyrins.

While I do not include the foods they list and have others I prefer, the reason why "no carbs" - and extreme dieting - can kill someone with porphyria is explained in the "Secondary Porphyria" post here:



CHRISTINA COOKS - Natural health advocate/ chef, Christina Pirello offers her comprehensive guide to living the well life.

Vegan, with a Mediterranean flair. Organic.

She was dx with terminal leukemia in her mid-twenties. Doctors said there was nothing more they could do. Among other things, she learned about complementary medicine and she learned how to cook whole foods. She recovered her health and is now a chef and professor of culinary arts.

To adapt: in the rare dishes where she uses wheat flour, it can just be left out for a fruit medley, etc. Brown Rice Pasta can be substituted (Tinkyada or Trader Joe's). Quinoa and the dark rices can also be used.

But she focuses mostly on very filling vegetable dishes and garden herbs.

Regarding her use of brown rice syrup, just leave it out and add a touch of stevia at the end.


Rick Bayless is a very good chef for MEXICAN meals that are healthy. These are heavy on vegetables.


Spoonful of Ginger site



From Nina Simonds, the best-selling authority on Asian cooking, comes a ground-breaking cookbook based on the Asian philosophy of food as health-giving. The 200 delectable recipes she offers you not only taste superb but also have specific healing . . . .

. . . With an emphasis on the health-giving properties of herbs and spices, this book gives the latest scientific research as well as references to their tonic properties according to Traditional Chinese Medicine and Ayurveda, the traditional Indian philosophy of medicine. . . .

You can find this at Amazon, too.


THE CURE IS IN THE KITCHEN, by Sherry A. Rogers M.D., is the first book to ever spell out in detail what all those people ate day to day who cleared their incurable diseases . . .



Also do a search on this wonderful author. She has a new simple book out, too. Search YouTube for all the chefs/authors. Get DVDs from their sites or the library. Check out cooking shows and learn how to adapt.




MEDITERRANEAN DIET (minus the wheat and the wine) is also good. It's many vegetable based, with delicious herbs in the meat dishes. Quinoa, dark rices - and unsweetened pomegranate juice can be substitute


Look up Black Forbidden Chinese Rice & the Red Bhutanese Rice. The nutritional content is excellent and these will help fill and fortify you, even in moderation, along with lots of vegetables.


Wehani & Wild Rice (Organic)


Black Japonica


Quinoa Recipes


Red Quinoa Recipes

Remember, though, that even the non-gluten whole grains are still best as a small side-dish along with LOTS of vegetables, lean proteins and healthy fats.

There may be times if candida is flared, that even whole grains may need to be avoided. But the fiber in grains is also very helpful to move toxins out of the colon. And grains are helpful to control blood sugar. So are legumes.

I found Olive Leaf Extract to be the best help against candida - along with probiotics but separated by hours, of course.

While we each have to figure out what exactly what works for us, foods closet to the earth always resonate better with our cells.

[ 12-02-2010, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
neffer.. You sound like me! I can't be trusted!! [lol] So my kitchen is pretty empty.

If you can go about 3 wks treating yeast and following the diet strictly, then half the battle will be won. It will be easier to stay away from sweets and treats then.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
From my notes:

sixgoofykids has shared: The Body Ecology Diet book --

Body Ecology Recipes (including for the holidays):

Ping savors flavor: My Spice Sage

Catdog has found a new way of thinking about chocolate: Raw Recipes Chocolate --



Slideshow of some chefs favorite spices, mixtures.

1. Chef Ana Sortun cooks Mediterranean-inspired food at her restaurant Oleana in Cambridge, Massachusetts. She loves the spice mixtures from La Boite a Epice.


2. New York's La Fonda Del Sol chef Josh DeChellis likes Pimenton de la Vera (smoked paprika) to add to dishes to give it a Spanish flair.

3. Chef Joji Sumi of Mezze Bistro and Bar in Williamstown, Massachusetts in the Berkshires, melds Asian and French flavors with local, seasonal ingredients. His spice choice: Togarashi.
It's a blend of Asian peppers, citrus, sesame seeds.

4. Chef Jose Garces of Garces Group in Philadelphia and Chicago creates his own spices.

5. Chef Jehangir Mehta of Graffiti and Mehtaphor in New York uses turmeric, chili powder and onions when he cooks his Indian-inspired food.

6. Chef Michael Anthony of New York's Gramercy Tavern opts for simple.
Basics like sea salt enhance flavors without hiding them.

7. Chef Joshua Whigham at The Bazaar by Jose Andres in Los Angeles uses cinnamon for his playful and sophisticated cuisine.
Cinnamon is an underused spice. When cooking with cinnamon, it adds an unbelievable depth of flavor to any foods you are cooking.

8. Michelin starred chef Gary Danko of Gary Danko in San Franciscos uses coriander for both sweet and savory preparation.
Coriander adds an intriguing fragrance and character. It plays an important flavor in savory duck confit, as well as other ethnic dishes and spice blends.


FRESH GARDEN HERBS like rosemary are available in the produce departments. Trim the stem and store lightly covered with breathing room (cut holes in a paper cup or fashion a paper towel dunce cap of sorts with an open tip) so that it does not mold.

Keep in a glass jar in your fridge door with just a little water at the bottom.
Posted by rmsfnc (Member # 27539) on :

You should keep your negative comments to yourself. Everyone is an individual and may not need to go to the extremes of all treatment/diet to get better. I am doing remarkably well in the 3 months of taking abx/supplements and I watched my diet for the first two. I am going to kick this and the diet will not be a factor. Thank you and have a good day.
Posted by steve1906 (Member # 16206) on :
Rmsfnc, Lymetoo is not giving us negative comments, read her post again!!!

You may be one of the lucky ones treating lyme and getting good results, Im happy for that.

Lymetoo is only trying to help people, shes had lyme for many years, and for one Im always
grateful for her comments.

I think most of us cheat on lyme diets, were only human. I cheated a lot on thanksgiving weekend,
Ill tell you Im still paying for it.

We are all different, some people and handle junk food a lot more than others.

I hope you continue getting better, but please respect other options, we are ALL trying to help each other.
Posted by rmsfnc (Member # 27539) on :
She may be helpful but to tell someone thay are headed for disaster b/c of their diet is narrowminded and negative. I'm glad you enjoy her comments Steve. Good luck to you as well.
Posted by keltyl (Member # 14050) on :
Me! Diet is my biggest downfall. I want a personal chef!
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Originally posted by rmsfnc:
[QB] She may be helpful but to tell someone thay are headed for disaster b/c of their diet is narrowminded and negative. I'm glad you enjoy her comments Steve. Good luck to you as well.

Sorry you took offense. I've been in Candida hell basically for 10 yrs.. the past few months even worse since this summer I was eating like you are.

My concern for you is that you have only been treating for 3 months. That is a very brief period of time to know for sure that you are "getting away" with eating pasta and white foods.

Unfortunately, you may wake up one day soon and regret your choices. I pray that won't happen.

My apologies for saying the truth as I see it.

PS.. I've been off abx for 6 yrs and still have trouble with candida. Of course, my GI dr didn't help by giving me abx this summer and I wasn't taking enough probiotics to cover it.

Keeb... Do you have another source for the black rice? This link isn't working:

Black Japonica
Posted by momlyme (Member # 27775) on :
Hi keltyl - what part of upstate ny?

You can come over and have supper with us. I make 2 meals every night! I am the personal chef! LOL

I wouldn't mind having a personal chef either... but I have learned a lot in a short period of very tough tummy issues!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :

I hate it when they change links. But here you go:

Black Japonica Rice - brown rice blend of short grain black rice and medium grain mahogany rice originates from Japanese seeds.


Black Chinese Forbidden Rice


Did you know that there are over 40,000 different kinds of rice?
Posted by sutherngrl (Member # 16270) on :
I am living in cheat mode right now. I will go months eating healthier, then I crumble and go months eating whatever I want. Oh, but I drink mainly water all the time. Like that makes it okay! HA!
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
Expanded choices and seasonings can help us stay in the health zone.

The basics of lentils are below. For recipes, Mollie Katzen is a great place to start:


French Lentils - Nutrition Facts listed

Note: nearly 12 grams of protein per serving, half the RDA for Vitamin A and high in Iron.


Iron: What is it? What foods provide iron?

. . . In humans, iron is an essential component of proteins involved in oxygen transport [1,2]. . . .

. . . There are two forms of dietary iron: heme and nonheme. Heme iron is derived from hemoglobin, the protein in red blood cells that delivers oxygen to cells.

Heme iron is found in animal foods that originally contained hemoglobin, such as red meats, fish, and poultry. Iron in plant foods such as lentils and beans is arranged in a chemical structure called nonheme iron [9].

This is the form of iron added to iron-enriched and iron-fortified foods.

Heme iron is absorbed better than nonheme iron, but most dietary iron is nonheme iron [8]. A variety of heme and nonheme sources of iron are listed in Tables 1 and 2.


Lentils . . . are low in fat and high in protein and fiber . . . Before cooking, always rinse lentils and pick out stones and other debris. Unlike dried beans and peas, there's no need to soak [lentils].

Scroll down to see all the different types.


Red Lentils - Nutrition Facts

These cook very fast and also are packed with nutrients. High in iron and with 11 grams of protein per serving.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
If we have enough protein (and that is combined with good veggies and other complex carbs - and good fats) our bodies will not crave simple carbs, usually. Adrenal exhaustion and dysfunction can trigger cravings, though - for quick energy.

It can take several weeks off of processed foods before the cravings disappear but one slip and it can be hard to stop again. That is one reason why the holidays are just loaded with danger unless we figure out other, more healthful, ways to get the great flavors that we deserve. There's always someone's birthday, etc. But by changing our choices, we have a great tool kit.

Also be aware that in most packaged foods, there is some form of MSG and that lights up the addictive part of our brain and has us hooked from the first bite. Google for all the names of MSG.

Protein helps our bodies make glutathione and that helps the liver detox . . . protein's amino acids help our brain, our hearts, our muscles, etc.

Taurine (found mostly in muscle meats) is vital, too. Vegetarians and vegans should consider supplementing taurine, as well as B-12 and L-Carnitine.


Anura V. Kurpad - Institute of Population Health & Clinical Research, Bangalore, India 129. Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148.


" . . . In general, the amount of EXTRA protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . ."

- Full article at link (or google the title if it does not go through).
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Thanks, keeb.. I'm off to check it out.

(PS.. I knew you'd want to update the link for your records!)
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
Keebler, thanks for all those links. I was looking for recipe books today and ordered three online - wish I had seen your list first but i will still check them out for more references.

I found Chinese Forbidden Black Rice. It was given this name because only the emperors were allowed to eat it as it was thought to promote long life and good health - many antioxidants. I am still experimenting with it. My culinary creativity is very limited. In fact it is really boring.

My son, recently diagnosed with diabetes needs help with his diet. I have always tried to eat healthy but this is a real challenge.

There was a study done at Georgetown University (in DC) and diabetics greatly reduced their blood sugar (in some cases reversing the disease) eating a vegan diet.

Although most people eat a high protein diet with lyme disease, I am leaning towards more vegetarian. The meat has too many toxins - compared to plants, meat has six times the amount of chemicals from pesticides etc. But I still eat organic chicken because my vegetarian cooking is not the slightest bit interesting.
Posted by arkiehinny (Member # 26546) on :
I confess, I'm sorry, and I apologize. NOT!
Posted by hadlyme (Member # 6364) on :
I basically eat what I want.

I eat healthy with 'cheating' at times.

Never any problems with yeast.

And hey... we all react to food differently just like we react to the abx differently.

To say we have to stay away from certain products is fine for some people and not so fine for others.

Be smart in all aspects.... whether we have lyme or not, eating smart and healthy and getting exercise is a smart choice.
Posted by ukcarry (Member # 18147) on :
I do cheat at weekends/holidays sometimes: usually with red wine, but also may have some dairy.
I have in the past been very strict though, especially when trying to bring candida levels down.

People newly infected: my digestive system got far more compromised by the illness after several years [of undiagnosed Lyme].....

.... If while you are in early treatment you can stick reasonably strictly to a low inflammation eating plan such as that recommended in Dr Singleton's book 'The Lyme Disease Solution', it seems to me that you are giving your body a better chance of recovery.


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