I have been using MMS for less than four weeks and have great results in every aspect. I had been struggling to get rid of some remains, mostly toxic metals, lead and mercury.
It is wise to follow the rules -- I am doing the Baby Bottle Protocol and it works gloriously. It is the simplest thing I have ever done, and I have done a lot! When 44some autistic children have gotten back a normal life, and following Dr. K.'s comments, I did not want to spend more time trying to detox heavy metals.
It is easy if you follow the rules as they are told.
I decided yesterday to get a colonic, and I had an almost uninterrupted flow of biofilm coming out of me. We added a couple of drops of activated MMS to the last water fill and that started a renewed outflow of more biofilm with everything that is hanging on to it. We all know by now that Biofilm is our downfall unless we remove it. MMS works like a charm on biofilm.
It, the colonic, was unbelievable. I am very happy that I found MMS because it works better than anything I have ever done. All for $19.95 and postage, and that lasts me probably for a whole year.
Take care.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Can you start off with the MMS or do you have to do it after the other suggested protocols (chlorella, cilantro, HPU, etc.)?
I'm going to be starting to do the metal detox soon. Still have 2 fillings to replace but it's going to happen soon. I had to do some other dental work first.
Posted by Marz (Member # 3446) on :
I've heard good things about MMS. Wondering what the answer is about possibly needing to do things like chlorella, etc first.
I do take chlorella. Also take bentonite clay and will start activated charcoal again as soon as I get to the store.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Good nutrition is paramount. Minerals need to be supplemented. I take Quinton and a few others when they test energetically.
I take Diatomaceous Earth - it has many good qualities and acts as a binder.
Be sure you get Jim Humble's book and learn all you can from the different You Tubes that are out there. I have posted several of them over the last few weeks. It is important to understand MMS and how it works.
I hope you will like the ease of it as much as I do. Do not go overboard with the number of drops - start slowly, slowly. This stuff works!
Good luck to all.
P.S. I started with 5 minute retention enemas and with one drop activated into one cup of distilled water. Then gradually started to increase to 2, 3, etc. drops up to 20. Once I reached twenty drops after 10 or so days, I decided to do oral -- starting the baby bottle protocol with l/8th drop in the hourly dose. Any discomfort, I back off and take less, or wait a day.
If you are uncomfortable - you took too much!
And please do get the latest Jim Humble book (blue cover) to learn what to do and not to do. www.jimhumble.biz has lots of info. Google "youtubes MMS Revira" and google "Andreas Kalcker MMS."
You will find a number of links in my posts of the recent weeks.
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
Forgot to ask where do people get colonic's?//
Posted by nonna05 (Member # 33557) on :
Forgot to ask where do people get colonic's?//
GiGi, how long did you take it before colonic???
Posted by lax mom (Member # 38743) on :
Nonna: I have colonics done at a local health food store that also offers services like: massage, colonics, fir sauna.
Some holistic clinics offer it under "colon hydrotherapy".
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
Gigi, can you tell us which brand you are using?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
nonna, it depends on whether you ever had colonics. If you haven't, I would suggest you check into it. I am sure there are several places in your area. Ask ND's offices or health food stores. I never knew there was a place right here on my little island - until I saw a sign in the street/sidewalk "colonics here". It is a busy place. If they are good, they are good. If they leave you unattended, ask that question before you make an appointment. It takes at least a couple to clear out old matter. If you can't improve, look for problems in that area. Getting well with a contaminated colon is not possible! because absorption is difficult.
I now alternate MMS between oral, bath, footbath, and rubbing in (MMS drops with coconut oil into feet and lower leg. Once you reduce the toxic load (parasites/microscopic and metals), this stuff works wonders.
Be aware that die-off of candida/fungi does not feel good - just be aware of it. If you take probiotics, you have a die-off; but MMS causing fungal die-off makes itself known. So understand what it happening. That is when I go for a colonic. Dr. K. recommends colonics urgently (two in a row) when treating parasites! It helps clear out the most stressed organ - the liver. People who get nauseous and diarrhea have a stressed liver.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
kidsgotlyme, I am taking this from Amazon. Keavy's Corner is approved by Humble. Showing 1 Result
M.M.S. Water Purification Drops with HCl activator $19.95 (1) Show only Keavy's Corner items
Sorry it won't copy here. Just ask for MMS & HCL and Amazon Health. These two 4 oz bottles will last for a very long, long time.
Posted by kidsgotlyme (Member # 23691) on :
Thank you.
Posted by chootik (Member # 11221) on :
Thank you Gigi.
My doc recommended this for Mold and Fungus a while ago but I had to detox first before I could handle even essential oils.
I think it's time to get the MMS!
By the way how do you know if it's getting the Metals out? Just curious.
Thnks Chootik
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
chootik,
If you start MMS and follow recommended instructions to a T, you will like it as I do.
I test energetically for metals and parasites and do lab tests and I am definitely reducing my load.
Swelling of ankles and soreness in feet have reduced immensely and Omura's direct resonance testing reveals that parasites in the feet and metals in the feet are the troublemakers.
Logic tells me and I learned that from Dr. K. years ago == metals move into the feet due to specific weight (as well as the lower body compartments/reproductive areas/lower jaw) and of course they can't go any further from there. The same when parasites are trying to escape and hide to survive and cannot go any further. The feet are the end of the road - as is the brain! I hope I deal with feet only.
MMS works in the different applications (bath, footbath, dermal, oral) and the difference since I switched to MMS instead of other antiparasitics/antimetals is obvious. I still have HMD at my side.
The people who were "screaming" at me when I first started to talk about MMS because they do not understand MMS and used it incorrectly are doing others who are unwell a disfavor. Done right, it works well in areas that other therapies could not touch. Even Dr. K. is learning a lesson at this moment because he was at a loss as to my swollen ankles and sore feet and nothing else seemed to work.
I still takes patience with MMS, but it is a heck of a lot more effective than anything else I have tried.
Good luck to you, learn and follow the rules.
Posted by dogmom2 (Member # 23822) on :
Can I use mms if i still have amalgams(have bad reactions to dental materials so i haven't been able to replace them)
And can i try it if i can't tolerate DE( bad bilteral sinus reaction and headache)
I don't think it would be wise to try to eradicate the toxins and parasites as long as you still have the mercury escaping from your teeth as you talk, chew, drink, etc. stressing your organs and overall system 24/7.
You need to fix this if you are really trying to get well - without sinus problems and headaches.
You need to try!
Best wishes to you.
Posted by chootik (Member # 11221) on :
Thanks GiGi.
I think initially I thought MMS was heavy duty stuff and one has to be careful with it. It might not work for someone who is super sick. Probably you have to do the less active stuff first and then MMS can be one of the last things one tries.
By the way what is HMD?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Chootik,
The main emphasis of MMS is getting at the bacteria, viruses, parasites, metals, etc., by breaking up the biofilm. It avoids loading up with antibiotics that accomplish little for most people. I do not know one single person who got over Lyme with abx. Some say they did, but still suffer from all sorts of things long after stopping abx.
We have to see to it that we stay away from any toxic surrounding, EMF, bad foods that do not nourish, and make absolutely certain we have a good supply of minerals, possibly digestive enzymes with out meals.
Making certain that the colon is cleaned up getting some good colonics to get rid of old deposits. If you have never done it, you may be surprised what we are carrying around. No wonder we are sick.
Why wait with MMS to the last?? This does not make sense. Read all you can to understand what MMS does. Listen to some of the youtubes of Kalcker and Rivera talking about MMS. Autistic children suffer from Lyme and toxicity and everything else, just as we do.
I used HMD and the drainage remedy Lavage from www.detoxmetals.com before I learned that MMS works on that end also. Its very easy to do and carefree. I am not using it now that I use MMS.
Parasites are at the base of Lyme and should have been a priority years ago as it was for Dr.K. Other doctors just never picked up on it. Some refer to bb as a parasite now!
Antibiotics only add to the biofilm which is the major problem creating hiding places for the microorganisms causing relapses whenever the coast is clear. Why do that? MMS breaks open the biofilm like nothing else I have done, and that includes doing the intervention which I did for CCSVI. I can tell from the biofilm leaving my body with MMS that this very pricey CCSVI intervention was drop in the bucket.
Suggest you do more listening and reading, and avoid the pharma trolls; the are desperate.
I would do everything that I know to do to clean up, but make MMS priority treatment.
It is a good thing to learn some sort of energetic testing or have someone who can help with that. I would be lost without my tensor.
Take care.
Posted by chootik (Member # 11221) on :
Well I actually agree with you!
I am not doing any ABX or meds anymore! My skin has soo many liver spots on it, it's really scary.
I'm just doing natural stuff, I just meant doing less stronger natural stuff at first, because at least for me, I'm too neurotoxic and can't handle the strong stuff yet!
By the way, since we're on the topic of detox, do you know of a good, gently kidney supplement that wouldn't be too diuretic, since we are all already kinda dehydrated but it would just build up the kidney more?
I have Pekana, but it's more of a diuretic. I'm looking for something to baby my kidneys to help them with all the detox. I was told my kidneys are sensative and I actually feel that.
I do Castor Oil packs on them and that helps but I need more.
Thanks for sharing all the info on MMS. I have to look into it more and def. watch the U Tube videos.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
My lingering problems with kidneys of any kind has faded with MMS. I used to take UNDA 243 (both for liver and kidney), rub cilantro tincture over kidneys back and liver and used to take Renelix for years. Kidneys definitely suffer more and most from toxic metals than anything else. They have trouble filtering the toxins and urine becomes pale. Let that be your signal that you have to act. Urine should have color and some odor. If neither, they are not doing their job. Kidneys do not regenerate as the liver does. Compare the cleansing area of kidneys and liver to a pingpong table vs. football field.
Don't wait with parasites to the last! I has been and still is a much larger problem for Lyme people, and any chronic condition for a long long time. We are chasing the spirochete and missing the decaying forest and will never succeed that way. Years of abx????? and still suffering from something following that????
We have to change our ways.
Nothing is more neurotoxic to our nerves than what parasites release every day as they go through their life cycle.
Good luck.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Gigi,
Thanks so much for your posts and specifically on MMS. I read your posts about going after parasites but thought I needed to treat BB, Bart and CPN first. I started with mino and slowly added a host of ABX.
After 18 or 19 months my liver said enough. I got the AST and ALT liver results back and besides the side pain, my numbers indicated my liver could not take any more ABX for a while.
I read about treating parasites first, but since I felt so poorly, treating Lyme was the priority. Well I am back to treating parasites and using MMS as one of the tools. I went back and relooked at the symptoms and realized how infected I must be.
Thanks again to you and all the others here on Lymenet that have declared how important it is to go after the parasites as soon as you can.
All the Best, MattH
Posted by chootik (Member # 11221) on :
MattH
If you don't mind can you tell us how you feel on the MMS? Was it hard to tolerate?
Any info you can share on how it was for you is much appreciated.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Gigi, perhaps you may have a suggestion...I have not started the MMS yet, but am on Artemisinin and other parasite remedies. I feel like maybe i triggered the metals, because my jaw and face are throbbing and i keep having Metallic taste in my mouth. I am taking tons of binders, Welchol, Chlorella, Charcoal, Burber, pinella, parsley. Nothing seems to help at all...
Do you have any thoughts?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Kristen J., My first thought of course is MMS. My second thought is KPU, for which you need to take CORE to have the necessary mineral base to detox any metals.
I hope you have all amalgams out, if you ever had any. If you still have crowns, often the amalgam is under the crowns and slowly moving into the system.
My next thought is Diatomaceous Earth. If you are not familiar with it, start reading. It is in every MMS protocol to catch the larvae produced by parasites. Artemisinin does not take care of that. I have taken arte for a long time, got rid of Babesia (symptoms almost impossible to define/attribute), but still have parasites to deal with now. I think we have parasites whose names we do not know. Maybe the whole Lyme thing is a parasitic mutation infestation.
Burbur, pinella, parsley never did a thing for me, nor did any of the Cowden meds.
My gut says get tested for MMS and get your feet wet. It is difficult to believe how this stuff works and not touching the healthy cells.
I like MMS because it definitely affects the toxic metals in a very positive way. I never test for any metal detoxer anymore while I had to drown myself in DMPS to survive EMF before. Now I still have metals, but MMS takes it out of resonance, and that is exactly what I think is happening. Getting metals out of the feet is not easy, especially if the parasites (microscopic) have moved there also.
We know that MMS takes out Malaria within hours. Why worry about artemisinin which is used to capture Babesia, so similar to Malaria? Oral MMS takes care of that.
Read and listen to all you can about MMS and start it very slowly. It takes out all pathogens and neutralizes the metals and chemicals.
MMS is incredibly effective: I have been dealing with swollen legs/ankles and sore feet for a long time since I lost my husband. Within a few weeks into MMS, I am almost down to normal. My fastest results are by rubbing MMS into the skin with coconut oil. I have no clue why it works, because we have never figured out what causes the swelling besides lack of circulation. Nor could Dr. K.
Weren't you tested for MMS? If yes, try it.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Gigi Thank you...I was tested for MMS by AD and just got in the mail. Also just got Core as well.
I have huge histamine release from parasite treatment, which makes me miserable with symptoms, so what in your experience is the least intense way to ease into MMS???
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I can't wait to try this (need to get the rest of my amalgams out).
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Kristen J., what did AD suggest? I started with 5 minute retention enemas and one drop of activated MMS into one cup of warm water in the morning. Two drops the next day; then 3, etc. Moving it up to 20 drops as comfort allows.
Herxing is not desirable. So go very slowly. Read the book and check the links I have posted over the last few weeks. You are in charge. In general, colonics are a must when treating parasites, at least two in a row. You only react badly if your five feet of colon are in overload. Coffee enemas do not take care of that. No coffee enemas when doing MMS. No antioccidants because it stops the MMS from working -- it is an oxidizer.
My bedtime.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
I tried the MMS on a couple of occasions before I was diagnosed with Lyme and co-infections. I started too fast two years ago.
Currently I am at 8 drops twice a day. It really cleans me out. I do 5 drops of MMS enema twice a week. Do not stray far from the bathroom for about two hours. Both treatments are activated for at least 5 minutes.
I will have my 5th UVB and Ozone IV tomorrow and continue to take the Dr K Cocktail. I also sip warm water with DE in it throughout the day.
My symptoms do seem to be improving although slowly. Binders are important and I do not think I am taking enough. That will change tomorrow.
All the Best, MattH
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Three weeks ago I could not walk well and ended up with swollen legs and ankles by evenings.
I am now practically down to no swelling and had my first all-day garden-clipping-weeding day in a long time. Besides oral, I also apply the MMS dermally to feet and legs with some coconut oil. I was guessing at this, since I know footbaths and full baths are supposed to work. Everyday the swelling got less, don't energetically test for metals every time I test.
I prefer the Baby Bottle protocol taking very small amounts of MMS orally every hour for 8 hours knowing that MMS is only effective for not much more than two hours after taking it. (it turns into simple salt!) I have my bottle and a shotglass in the car when I go places, so I don't miss any. Doing it early in the day is best than cramping it into just before bedtime. Better sleep and detoxification takes place in the middle of the night with toxic results moving down to colon in early morning hours. Feel bad when waking up?? rememeber this - make certain you head for the bathroom. My first cup of coffee is the trigger for me. Coffee is an anti-occidant, but should not be taking close to MMS, which is an occidant!
I also do best with DE before every meal because it captures the larvae of the parasites, large or small. That is a very important part of eliminating new generations of parasites. Right now we are having full moon when they reproduce.
200,000 eggs a day turn into tons of parasites - large or small/microscopic. If more and more worms are coming along, rethink your protocol.
It has been found by the MMS founder and his crew who treat many very ill people in their clinic (looks like a wonderful place) that small doses and frequency are more beneficial than the older protocol. The protocol has been changed considerably from that of 2-3-4 years ago.
The importance of the daily short retention enema I believe from seeing is the effect on biofilm, which I found to be huge. I know from Dr. K. that unless we break the biofilm, infections and creation of parasites will not cease. That is one reason why enema to implant MMS is done for 20 days, slowly increasing the number of 20-30 seonds activated drops from 1 - 20.
I strongly believe in following the experience of the people who share what they learned dealing with many patients trying to get well.
The experience gained from treating many autistic children, who all have Lyme, all have metals, all have parasites and everything else we have or had, is a perfect example how we can learn what works for most avoiding stressing the body best.
Glad you are feeling improvement, MattH.
Posted by girl (Member # 18022) on :
I just read earlier today that good bacteria form a biofilm, too. Are you guys aware of this?
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Gigi,
Do you activate the topical MMS that you put into coconut oil?
Thanks, MattH
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
MattH, yes of course I activate all MMS I use for any purpose. I simply use a little from the baby bottle that I use during the day. Now it is activated with HCL instead. Check the Forum. Whatever I have left over of the citric acid I will use for activating MMS for baths. They (Humble, Revira, Harrah, etc.) made the decision for HCL because apparently it is easier to use for some people. I don't notice a difference. It may be a bit milder, but I really have no problem taking either one.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi,
tart cherry juice helps for swollen ankles.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
karenl, thank you for reminding me of the cherries.
I am aware that tart cherry juice as all cherries may help gout, i.e. it helps remove uric acid that builds up when people have gout, often in their feet.
What I had was not gout, but good old fashioned parasites and lead/mercury in the feet and lower calfs. I love ignorant dentists most of whom have lost their thinking capacity after they took the first breath of amalgam!!!
From what I had a time ago, almost doubling my ankles in size, it is now completely gone. I can still trace the lead/pb (with lead vial and tensor) doing Direct Resonance Testing as taught by Dr. Yoshiaki Omura, some small amount of lead moving up through my calfs. As it moves, it makes the leg feel like "freezing" in that particular area, but goes away as I move around and am active on my feet. When I still carried more toxic metals, practically my whole body would feel like freezing. Metals are usually accompanied by parasites, be they ever so tiny and invisible.
Anyone who has this freezing/burning sensation that hangs around or comes and goes, treat parasites and heavy metal toxicity. It can be especially felt in legs and arms and going up the spine. Metals and parasites.
I think MSM/sulfur alleviates some of the soreness, because it negates uric acid. But MSM does not kill parasites or take away toxic metals and only works for a little while.
MMS however does. MSM/sulfur product does not. I am so glad I caught on to MMS. It is a huge relief to be able to walk normally without pain in the feet. I am definitely not ready for a cane or wheelchair.
My good friend, about half my age, who thought she had Morgellons is also using MMS. After figuring out that one needs to go very very slowly with MMS, she is starting a few days into it to feel relief and getting more and more excited about using it. She also takes DE, eats right, and started with MMS enemas and then doing oral starting with l/8th drop.
When doing MMS, it is wise to listen to one's body. Herxheimers kill and are not desirable.
When doing MMS, it is also contraindicated to take MSM because it is a strong antioccidant and would therefore make MMS ineffective. MMS works by being an occidant. MSM is an antioccidant and cancels the effects of MMS.
Through Dr. K., I have become more and more aware of problems with antioccidants that are being advertised as so helpful these days. They are not beneficial in all aspects.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Gigi,
I spent a good long time on the MMS forum last night. I plan to move from my current (read older) MMS protocol to the 8 hr one.
I also have some swelling in the lower legs and will try your coconut approach. Now if I use lime to activate the MMS, I can say, yes wait for it ... "you put the lime and coconut and mix it all up!"
I think my swlling is due to Bart but let's see what it will do. I also have a chiro that uses a pretty strong micro current and thought I might give that a try in April.
I continue using Mimosa and DE without any issues but still have mild right side pain. Not sure what that is but have had it for 3 months so I will visit my GP on Tuesday.
Thanks again, there are a couple of lyme testimonials on the MMS forum. What I find strange is that one user says he or she is much better (like at 90%) but continues to take it as if it is not hitting the biofilm. Yet from what I read MMS can go after the biofilm.
All the Best, MattH
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi, where do you get glass baby bottles? I found only plastic.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
karenl, I use an emptied salad dressing bottle of glass with a plastic lid.
I mark the height of 8 ounces (one cup) on the outside of the bottle with a piece of plastic green tape that sticks well.
I fill the bottle with one cup = eight ounces of distilled water up to the green sticker mark.
I prepare my 24 drops of MMS and 24 drops of HCL (the activator I now use) counting them into a small plastic spoon together and waiting 30 seconds for it to turn yellowish. I then pour the activated MMs INTO MY "baby bottle".
I use a small shot glass that holds one ounce and pour my one ounce dosis into it to drink, every hour for eight hours.
I take both the bottle and little glass with me when I go somewhere so I do not miss the drink.
I was told that Target carries a real honestygoodness baby bottle out of glass and a sealing top. You need the top, but don't want to use a metal top. If you can't find one, just buy yourself the right type glass bottle looking over the 8-10-12 ounce size in the grocery store. The one I use actually holds more than 8 ounces, but I put my marker on it for the right quantity of waer when I make my daily bottle.
Of course you start with less than 24 drops when you start out. I originally started with l drop into the first bottle and activated it with 1 drop of HCL giving me actually a 1/8th drop dose the first day I took it. I increased it rapidly to 24 drops each over the next couple of weeks.
When you feel discomfort, cut back to less - do not push. You do not want a herxheimer - it is absolutely a no-no.
This is (below) a great site I found today. Save it, because you will be referring to it.
I am doing great with almost no problems in feet/swelling ankles. But still clearing more in BM. Probably things I had been holding on to with no place to go. Have never seen a full worm/parasite as others describe.
I do not think that mixing a number of different therapies is a good thing. MMS is very powerful and needs not much else except a good mineral supplementation. And I take DE minimum 3x a day to bind. Too much is being stirred up with die-off to do without or less.
Read this site as you have time - it is full of good info http://www.mms.bg/index.php/protocol-1000-3 Please note the difference of plasma vs rbc penetration of MMS. I also apply topically on feet and calf = excellent.
Good luck to you. Do not follow older protocols -
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
MattH, when you realize that ascaris for instances lay 250,000 eggs every day, you know that you cannot stop parasite treatment quickly.
All this info is from a German website and an interview of Andreas Kalcker. Use of MMS is much more common in Germany and other Euro countries and the rest of the world. We need to understand that even Wiki etc. can be altered by anybody to tell us only what big money wants us to hear. We have to stop being so naive. MMS cannot be patented!!! It is a natural substance.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
If I forgot to mention it- my sinuses, nose, ears have never been more clear - this is only a side benefit of everything else due to MMS.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Gigi,
Thanks for your comments. I added MMS back to my regime about 6 weeks ago along with DE. These were not things on my list from the Dr K practitioner, but we discussed it and I won!
I watched a Kalcker interview and did a thorough comparison of symptoms and what I have experienced over the last 20 years. I fully realized that parasites are a big issue for me and will need many months of treatment.
Thanks again. MattH
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Karen,
MMSforsale.com sells bottles that have 8 ounce markings and a plastic lid. I think they are expensive ($15 with shipping). I could not find the baby bottles at my local Target with the added seal. K-Mart also has glass baby bottles.
I bought mine there for a friend.
Hiker53
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi and Hiker,
thanks for the advice. I also use now a glass salad mixing bottle from Target (3.99) but found out that the measurements are incorrect. Started with one drop in 8 oz. used only a bit topically on my leg and got a big herx - this is a miracle solution. I would not have believed it without trying.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
It is good to measure the individual eight portions. In a hurry, I have taken more than one ounce and wasn't sure that I would make it to my kids house without throwing up. I didn't. But have learned that one ounce means one ounce containing the number of drops that my body handles well.
I am up to the max of 24 each and will not go beyond, on advice of Jim Humble and others who have followed many people on their protocols.
The body does not like too much toxin release all at once.
If it weren't for my small purse, I would switch to the liter bottle.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Just to clarify for people who have not tried MMS. The reason a person would throw up with MMS is because it can be toxic and the body naturally rejects a toxin with vomiting. It is not because the body releases toxins too quickly' Vomiting soon after MMS ingestion means you are trying to poison yourself. Of course, I think some antibiotics are poisons, too, and they have made me throw up.
With Jim Humbles's older protocol, there was a call for higher amounts of MMS and many people had bad experiences. Unfortunately that information is still out there on the web.
Now, I am not saying the MMS in small amounts is dangerous, but I would be very cautious even with the baby bottle method. And I think Gigi has done a good job of emphasizing that.
Hiker53
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by girl: I just read earlier today that good bacteria form a biofilm, too. Are you guys aware of this?
- I see there was no reply to this. Wondering myself!
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
I am confused about MMS. Is it the same chlorine that is in swimming pools? I thought people were buying water filters to remove the chlorine. Is it different?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Per Dr. K.: Microbes build biofilms, comprised of magnesium, calcium, and heavy metals. Complexing agents, such as chlorella, DMSA and other binders, will break down the heavy metal component of the biofilms, while EDTA will break down the calcium aspect.
The coating/plaque on our teeth, the reason why we brush and have our teeth cleaned, consists of biofilm hiding pathogens just as it does in the rest of our body.
I can clearly identify that the biofilm MMS releases is not clear, but loaded with "things" that I cannot identify with the bare eye.
The output from the throat brought about by die-off from MMS is definitely the toughest film that cannot be easily spit out. I tried to capture some the other day to use it for a homeopathic, but I had to use a scissor to cut it off to get parts of it into a small bottle.
Biofilm is the perfect hiding place for any microbe and parasite, toxic metals and things we would rather be rid of. Relapses!
Nefferdun, if not familiar with MMS, kindly read/ listen to the YouTubes and links I have given over the last few weeks, including this one -- http://www.mms.bg/index.php/protocol-1000-3
It does not benefit anyone to pass out false and incorrect frightening information about a product that has helped so many people.
[ 04-04-2013, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Downloaded and read the book. Started with Bath tub and now slowly doing oral...so far all is OK:)
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I don't see any false and incorrect frightening information in this thread. Bottom line is that taking too much MMS will make you throw up and that makes it a toxin.
Gigi has really emphasized to go slow and use small amounts, so that you don't get sick from MMS.
All I see in this thread is good information, questions, and cautions.
Hiker53
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
My doctor told me that when MMS came on the scene years ago, she was dosing 15 drops twice daily which produced adverse reaction and anxiety, so she stopped using it. Taking tiny dose hourly cuts down on side effects and MMS breaks down into a harmless salt.
Posted by nefferdun (Member # 20157) on :
What is the problem with answering my question? I am not spreading false information because I have no information to spread. I see nothing on the links telling me what MMS is. Is it chlorine?
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
It is sodium chlorite NaCl02 22.4%. You use a tiny bit.
I googled for the pool: calcium hypochlorite (a solid) or sodium hypochlorite (a liquid). But all young kids go in pools and swallow water.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
MMS is sodium chlorite. Activated with citric acid or HCl it releases chlorine dioxide which is used in swimming pools, in making leather products, cleaning foods, etc. etc. I am sure that would be a higher strength than anyone is advocating here. But yes, the end results can clean water and is used in pools.
Here is a good website that tells how chlorine dioxide can be used to kill microbes and its advantages over chlorine.
Couldn't agree more with GiGi on the benefits and care needed to be taken with MMS. I did MMS a while back ago for many months. And I don't need it anymore, because I'm well and have been for awhile. My motto: take it if you feel you need it, but know when to stop.
Lymetoo -- yes good bacteria creates biofilms, MMS doesn't work against those, it work electrically seaking out the polarity of pathogens and by destroying the pathogens dissolves the biofilm. Helpful bacteria have a different polarity and the biofilm is chemically different.
nefferdun -- If there were no other drink and you your dieing of thirst wouldn't you drink tap water, you know its got chlorine in it. Chemically chlorine is bad for you, salt is sodium chloride, can't live without it. So some one might say your eating a solid form of chlorine, but you can't live without salt. There were some on the site, who use to pontificate and scare others on MMS being pool water. MMS is sodium chlorite used mostly as water purification and sanitation and quite a bit chemically similar to table salt. Otherwise why would it be used to purify water for drinking in the woods?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Just to be very clear. No one on this thread has tried to scare anyone away from MMS. Nefferdun asked a question and it was answered.
Gigi has emphasized caution from the beginning.
Bob, do you think MMS played a large role in regaining your health? Perhaps I remember incorrectly, but I thought you used photon therapy to get well. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Hiker53
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Hiker, I was wide open to many things. MMS was one of them. It was a percentage of my recovery. My doctor thought I was the most mercury toxic patient he'd ever had along with lyme (and he's seen thousand, he's a dentist and physician). Mercury for me was the biggest issue even more than lyme or bartonella -- which I believe I had undiagnosed. I would say MMS was maybe 10 or 15%. I think photons were more in the 40 percent range 30 or so percent having a good amount of dental work done. Such as cavitations and amalgams along with resolving tmj issues. I would say I'm about 140% beyond when I was derailed by symptoms. As far as MMS, it has a role no question about it. To get to 140%, I had to change my view on what I believed to be true, which is tossing out everything I thought was the truth. So I would say spirituality and not in the religious sense, took me to a much better spot. Along with a great number of herbs, diet and cleansing (especially Hulda Clark's liver cleanse -- I've done about 12 -- still do them once a year).
I only added my caution for how many months I did MMS. It has to be intuitively done with a bit of energetic testing.
BTW: I really hope I provide a sense of empowerment to those who are afraid to venture beyond what they think they know. I don't have a chance to be on the site much. I'm working way too many hours, but I love it. To now do what I couldn't do when I was sick.
Hopefully it clears it up for you Hiker
I added the comment to nefferdun for my own humor to someone who used to post here, so maybe I took a little too much license. Hopefully, Gigi got it. Please if I offended anyone or it sounds like I'm pontificating myself, I appologize.
Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
Bob, This is off topic, but just wanted to thank you for coming back and sharing what has worked for you to get well. It is so helpful and encouraging to read about you getting well and on with your life!
Did you ever do antibiotics at all for your treatment?
I plan on trying MMS in a little bit. My LLND has said that it's good.
Thanks again Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Hi Birdie,
I did abx initially for about 1 1/2 months. I had such a severe reaction to them, I had to stop. It no longer was a possibility for treatment. I suspect after the DDS/physician assessment of mercury. I also had a severe yeast/mold issue looking back at time. I had abx before without the reaction. It was severe enough, I had landed into the emergency room 3 times. The 3rd time, my blood pressure was 150+ over 120+. But it quickly came down. I believe I had, had a reaction to the ABX. I vowed never to use it again, not that I think ABX might not help some one. It just didn't help me.
Don't expect MMS by itself to be a panacea. For me it was about 15%, pretty good considering th e investment. For others it might be more. I've had as many as 50 amalgams in and out of mouth.
To test my mercury level now. I just buy some organic cilantro. In the course of 3 days I'll eat 3 tablespoons per day. I have no issues with it.
I suspect I got lyme when I was child in massachusetts.
When I met the DDS/physician he thought I had lyme as a child. I have lipomas on my arm he thinks are caused by lyme. However, lyme was a secondary issue when I first talked with him. He felt the mercury and lead in my body was the far more immediate issue to concentrate on.
With MMS it seem to help my lower digestive tract and it seemed to pull some of the fog from my brain.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Sort of determined over the years and listening to Dr. K. that unless all parasites are in control, the metals will not be under control either, because they are the keepers of the parasites. We also know that the biofilm plays a huge role and we know that Borrelia live within the parasites.
I posted an article the other day about this, but nobody commented on it except a non-poster from far away who contacted me privately. She would like to see the doctor who finally published this.
We are not only living specifically with Lyme and Co., but the burden of parasites is a very large one. That is one reason why I am so thrilled with MMS. MMS can go after so many factors which we are not even aware of nor can we even give it/them a name. Shooting in the dark is no fun, and MMS is one of the best things coming down the pike to take care of what we cannot identify. There is probably by now a mutation of ascaris and borrelia, who knows. We just know that not all things are perfect yet when people are delivering parasites. At least that is how I look at it for myself.
Parasites are on the move -- they are and can be in every body compartment, from head to toe. Whatever we use has to be very flexible. Read Humble's book and learn -- he admits he is not a doctor, he admits he is not a scientist, he is just the guy who happened to invent MMS. I very much also enjoy reading Andreas Kalcker's comments and really excellent explanations - sadly some are only in German and an hour and longer of this is too much to translate.
Relax -- just because you took MMS the wrong way because you didn't know better, does not make MMS a poison. It is not a poison. (Some of the resisting forces would like to convince us of this, because there is no big money in something that cannot be patented!) When you overdo it and killing too many pathogens, they unload their toxins inside of us and that is what may temporarily may make us nauseus, or give us diarrhea for a couple of hours. When we learn to do it slowly, that will not happen.
If you eat a pound of butter all in one sitting, you probably get sick too - it does not make butter a poison or toxin. Do you blame abx on the herxheimer? No, your body is not strong enough to handle the fallout, and in the long run this is not healthy.
Releasing the toxins the critters were holding and the dead bodies, because our system could not deal with the heavy fallout does not make MMS into a poison!
I started with 1/8 drop per hourly dose for eight hours. Am now at 3 drops and it should never be higher, per Humble. This knowledge developed over time as more and more people around the world are using MMS. To explain: I now put 24 activated drops of MMS into 8 ounces of water, drinking l ounce every hour containing 3 drops MMS (24 drops divided into 8 ounces = 3 drops per ounce dose, every hour, for 8 hours. MMS.
If you can't get beyond "MMS, the poison", the best is to stay away from it. Things only seem to work if one believes in it. Many people do.
[ 04-07-2013, 12:33 AM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by lymie_in_md (Member # 14197) on :
Can't say any more than that GiGi. When I did 30 drops in a day it was too much. It didn't take me long to lower it. Determining 30 drops was too much. I ended at 18 drops and 12. I did MMS for about 4 months and stopped. When you feel sick from taking it just lower. Use intuition or energetic testing to see what works best for you.
Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
Thanks Bob and GiGi! I have an appt with my LLND this Thurs and will ask if now's the time to start MMS. My main reason would be for parasites. i just can't seem to get rid of them. Roundworms, to be exact. I've literally tried everything and they just won't go.
Just finished up a bottle of Biopure Rizol oil and wow, was that hard! But, didn't get rid of the parasites.
I also just ordered a biotensor, so hoping once it comes and I can get the hang of it, it will help me to better dial in on what my body needs. I ordered it from Bioplama.
Definitely takes a lot of different things to get well.
Posted by lymewarrior03 (Member # 3891) on :
I have to wonder about all this. When I got sick and went to Lymenet for help, in 2003, GiGi was posting that she was well on Dr. K's protocol. She was disgusted with all the
nonbelievers, and announced she was quitting lymenet to go enjoy her life. It has been many years since I've checked back here...and here she is again, along with a couple others I
remember from back then. Be careful of what advice you get here....it is not always dependable. I got some good help here and some bad.
The bad advice nearly killed me. Now I'm better, and just saying, be careful about what you try.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Lymewarrior03,
Welcome and glad that you are back. If you are not 100% well yet, it always pays to listen to others and possibly find solutions. I did and I am having a good time doing what I had to do. I am on my feet and doing a �one- mile walkout� most every day and look forward to my next birthday this year at 82, in good spirits again after losing my husband after 50years plus of marriage.
To this day, I know of no other program that works better than Dr.K.'s. I was extensively treated by him in 2000 for parasites. But this does not mean that I will be immune from other parasites for the rest of my life, especially while some metals still hang on in the body. Myelin takes many years to repair. Please listen to the linked video � Dr. K. talks about that referring to my husband and my life when he apparently was interviewed in his pursuit for less EMF around the world.
Parasites besides our food also devour toxic metals, but they also live, reproduce by the thousands and die, as everything must eventually. I am not ready for that yet and hope to get rid of whatever remains of parasites and any toxic metal overload. I am well on my way and so happy, I am thrilled, that MMS does this for me.
I am sharing my experience as I have for many years and hope that at least a person or two will benefit. I do not approach anything related to disease as a �warrior� because I have learned over the years that �energy always follows the thought� , and the fighting attitude toward any disease saps my energy leaving not enough for healing. Even Dr. Oz was talking about this just recently and that really was nice to hear.
Hope we all will be perfect one day.
[ 04-10-2013, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi,
is it ok to take vitamin D3 10,000 and B12 shots daily while you are on MMS? I understand no vitamin C. Thanks for all your help on lymenet.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
karenl, you can take substances that are not considered "antioxidants" when doing MMS.
MMS is a better oxidizer than oxygen or ozone and the effects of antioxidants would cancel any benefits of MMS. If you read the Humble book, you will find explanations.
Many people are overdoing B12 and I would only add more if testing for it energetically. Parasites feed on B12. D3 is okay, but even for me living in the Northwest, I test for it maybe a couple times a week.
It is so wise to learn testing, because taking anything the body does not need does not do a thing but lighten your wallet and possible cause too much storage burden.
Paying attention to electrolites and minerals is the most important. I have not touched multiple vitamins in years. Consider what your house guests like!!! It is no wonder we are drowning in parasites and unable to subdue them.
I always remember Dr.K.'s comments at least ten years ago about the "twelve pounds of parasites" the average person carries.
Thanks for your thankyou, karen.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
You did get better on eight drops MMS, after how many weeks? I am on three...soon on four.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
karenl, to answer your question: I delivered the first empty skin with my first activated 1-drop MMS after a five minute retention enema. It was wrapped around the stool, but definitely long dead and empty.
This has happened several times, but I never saw a full worm or anything close to it as others describe. I have been taken Diatomaceous Earth since last August and they puncture the parasites and then most of the remains are digested in the gut, so that often there is nothing actually visible.
I started MMS toward the end of January only as retention enemas and have only been doing oral drops, now up to the maxium of 3 per dose, which makes a total of 24 as I described several times above. I will not go beyond 3 per dose, per hour.
If you are on 3, soon 4, that must mean per 8 ounces of water?? That means you are now at 3 divided by 8 as your hourly dose???
My symptoms have reduced a lot in these few weeks. But I still test energetically for toxic metals (mercury and lead) and a mix of parasites and ascaris. Since I eat a lot of fibrous food and meat, I cannot identify anything in my stool except what I don't want to describe here having no clue what it is... No wonder labs can't find anything.
When I do no longer test (with tensor and occasional expert tester) for parasites and metals I will stop. As long as my body tests for any of the antiparasitics I have, DE, MMS any Iver, etc., that tells me I still deal with parasites. That is what makes the testing so important.
I am not counting days or weeks, the fact that I have dropped some nasty symptoms (feeling of freezing in legs and arms, is one of them) I know what I am doing is working well. That is all that counts.
MMS is working in my face, eyes, ears right now, which was one of my worst problems from Lyme. I am sure that parasites have moved in there years ago. My vision is becoming crystal clear; my hair grows too fast for me to keep up with short haircut; my nails also. Hearing greatly improved and road to sinuses open. Pretty good stuff for an old lady where everything is supposed to go to hell in a handbasket!
Consider the retention enemas, it is extremely effective. No coffee enemas.
Posted by stickerbow (Member # 37536) on :
I AM ONE WHO NEEDS TO SEE A HERX. MMs is one thing that you need to follow the directions. I tried doing 12 shots an hour and it gave me the worst herx in a year.
Now I'm doing in 8 ounces of water 1 oz an hour no problem.
You need to follow the directives for sure. Some thinks you can monkey with but not CDS.
Would like to add many improvements. Pat
Posted by stickerbow (Member # 37536) on :
Should have added I'm at 24 drops in the 8 ounces.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
this is Czech language?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
He is speaking English, though, so it is easy to follow.
Hiker53
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Can we drink coke while on mms? I think he said coke can be mixed with mms?? And coke is not an anti- oxidant but has phosphoric acid.
Posted by annxyzz (Member # 20404) on :
Is anyone FEELING better and less fatigued with MMS ?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
karenl, yes, Andreas said that a little coke into your single dose (MMS with water) is okay to camouflage the taste. Do not put the coke into your whole daily bottle, but only in the drink that you take every hour. He doesn't say to drink coke in general because obviously it is not the healthiest drink on earth.
I myself and some friends have no problem with the taste without adding anything to it. If you listen to the youtube he is not excited about juices.
annxyzz, When using MMS, it means the dead parasites are releasing their toxin into the body and that is what I notice while on MMS. It is not a stand-up-man pill as we expect from some pharmaceuticals and depending on how heavy the load, it takes time to clear things.
I am doing great on it and am very happy so far with the results. I am not fatigued, but I am ready for bed at around midnight. It is major work for the body, but rewarding like nothing else.
I recommend to really study all that is available to study and learn about MMS. There is really quite a bit of info -- every time I cruise the net, I find something else. The more, the better. It just shows how delighted some are and how desperate some are to turn people off.
It's a good thing we can all decide for ourselves.
Definitely nighttime now!
Take care.
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
So if a person gets blotchy rash on their skin from swimming pool or chlorinated tap water, is MMS safe for them to take? I wouldn't think so, but asking just to clarify...
Also, is MMS safe to use orally or topically if one still has amalgam fillings in their teeth?
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Razzle, Amalgam can be such a vicious thing and can cause an array of problems. Mercury moves into many different body areas and the skin is no exception. The law of osmosis takes care of that.
I would direct that question to the MMS Forum. They do a good job trying to answer. I think I linked it above.
As far as I know, MMS has not killed anyone, but Mercury has done that a million times.
I would not be alive any longer if I still had metals in my mouth, because parts had shifted from the teeth to everywhere else.
I am also sure that you have heard that many times before, and I hope you are asking for another person noticing that you have had symptoms for so many years.
Some ideas from Kerri Rivera, the "mother" of the many autistic children who have gotten well.
I totally agree with her as far as loading up on supplements is concerned. We are creating a cheap restaurant for parasites.
Minerals are the most important to keep the electric currents flowing.
Success to all of you.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Gigi, been taking MMS hourly, doing the bath tub method and enemas....No adverse reactions and feel a little more energetic....
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Sounds good, Kristen J. Don't overdo. Are you taking Quinton? or a good mineral replacement?
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Gigi
Is the Core considered a good mineral supplement for MMS?
All the Best, MattH
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
MattH, CORE is not sufficient. That is addressing the misssing items to correct KPU.
I started to take Quinton again as I did years ago. I cannot find it in a liter bottle at this time, so am taking the glass vials. It is much more reasonable to get the big bottle. If I can avoid capsules and tablets, I will.
Best to you, MattH.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
Thanks Gigi for the comments on Core.
Yesterday I just ordered Umac-Core, Marine Phytoplankton, 500 mg, 90 Veggie Caps from Iherb. I will look for another good mineral supp. as well. With all I am spending on the Dr K cocktail, UVB/Ozone IV's I would like to stretch my funds as far as possible so I am looking for good , cheap and complementary where it exists!
All the Best, MattH
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Gigi, for minerals i'm taking Core and minerals of life. But would love some information about Quinton...is it only by injection? can it be taken orally? I will ask AD to test me for it, next time we speak.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
The Quinton is a vial which you open and drink, or drink half on the first day. there are two different Quintons: isotonic hypertonic which also has 11 mg magnesium per vial
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
This explains Quinton (not necessarily from this seller). Last time I looked I found it in a liter bottle which is of course much more reasonable. Can't seem to find it anymore. If you are looking, let me know if you run into it, please.
When I test myself energetically (tensor), I try to take Quinton before I do, because it immediately connects my own electric network to clearly give stronger signals.
Andrease Kalcker explains it very clearly in one of the YouTubes (I think the one he does in Prag with the translater) how our body is first of all an electric body and biochemistry comes after that. In other words, thinking of a motor, we have to fire on all cylinders before our autonomics function again the way they are meant to function. This dysfunction is often caused by lack of minerals and/or myelin damage by toxic metals and infections. It will heal, but it takes a long time. That myelin I damage also causes us to be so overly sensitive to EMF, odors, bright lights, etc. etc. I had it very badly until I detoxed a ton of metals.
So when it comes to choosing minerals, the best is worth it. Most minerals are poorly absorbed and some of the industrial minerals are not good. Dr. K. refers to them as the colloidal minerals.
As karenl said, there are two different Quinton types - I should take the isotonic because I am over sixty years old. So read all about it.
Take care.
P.S. If you can't afford Quinton, make sole from Himalayan Rock Salt (Swansons Vitamin) and take a T in your drinking water every day. It gives you all the minerals tnat is in Himalayan salt. The book "Water & Salt" is a wonderful book and info worth having.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I like Gigi's suggestion about making your own "quinton" solution. Quinton is very expensive for salt water (isotonic) or for salt water with Mg (hypertonic). Much much cheaper to make your own.
Then if you use energy testing you have not wasted a lot of money if you do not test well for it.
Hiker53
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
By no means did I intend to say that homemade sole from Himalayan salt is is the equivalent to Quinton /Sea Water.
If you have a chance please let me know how you do the skin application with coconut water?
Thanks and i'm definitely feeling good things with MMS...
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Kristen J., glad to hear this. The very same at my house -- all feels good!
All I do, very unscientifically, rub some coconut oil (not water) into my hand and sprinkle some of the ready made activated 24drop type MMS into my hand and rub it into the skin wherever I feel I need it -- feet, calves, around liver, and reaching back over the kidneys who are grateful for this. That is all.
If my jaw or neck felt sore, which it doesn't, I would rub it in there also.
My good friend in New York is doing MMS just like I am and definitely improving greatly. She had been fighting parasites for many years. She finds the best rewards by doing a 2-3-4-5 minute MMS retention enema. Major advantage: biofilm plus and absorption into body very quickly as compared to oral, stomach, etc.
You can use a little fleet enema - with some MMS in it.
Take care.
Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
GiGi, do you think it's ok to do MMS enemas for parasites, while on IV antibiotics?
birdie, as you will read in this link (be sure you read both pages), the MMS experts say it is okay. I would start with one activated drop and a short retention, and then go higher by another drop as long as you are comfortable. I moved up to the 20 max for enemas in about 8-9 days. But I got rid of Lyme many years ago. So it is a bit different.
The enema protocol is also on www.jimhumble.biz Just go and do some reading and most of all listning to the YouTubes of Andreas Kalcker, etc. You can learn a lot that will come in handy.
Get well!
Posted by birdie67 (Member # 35994) on :
Thanks GiGi. I will look at that link. I also just got the book today so will start to read that tomorrow.
Thanks for all the help!
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
Here's what I did:
I have a 6 gallon hopper that I used for colonics done with my own colonic board.
I did a couple of evacuations with fresh water.
Then switched to the enema bag and did a coffee enema.
After the coffee enema I did a colonic using about 3 gallons of water.
When there were 2 gallons left in the hopper, I added 32 drops of activated MMS to the water. Then filled my gut up twice and held it for as long as I could.
THEN, I followed this up by doing an ozone insufflation. Filled the gut up with ozone, held it, the pressure subsided as the ozone was absorbed into the bloodstream, filled up again and held it. When I was finished, I passed some of the ozone out, but was able to hold and absorb a lot of it. Then I went to bed.
In the afternoon the next day, I started getting a headache. When I woke up to go to the bathroom the next night----GAH-JINGAAAAH. Really sore shoulders and neck. Got a nice herx. It cleared pretty quickly but it's good to know that I killed a bunch of stuff.
Here's my take: A big part of healing from Lyme is solving the gut issues. MMS enemas and colonics can aid in this. Taking the MMS orally hits it from the other side.
The metal-neutralizing thing is an important bonus, because it is likely that the metals created the gut terrain problems in the first place that allowed the yeast and parasites to thrive.
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
I just ordered some MMS for myself. Haven't had a chance to read this great thread yet, but I plan to.
After all the various treatments GiGi has tried throughout the years....if she says this has been one of the best, that's just about all I need to know. Many thanks, GiGi.
--------------
Chaps -- Why don't you try a little harder than your half-hearted attempt? haha, lol. Wow, you seem like a man on a mission!! Glad you survived it. Be careful not to overdo it. Who did the ozone insufflation for you?
BTW - glad you decided to try this first instead of the Flagyl idea. I bet you will get good results. Wishing you well.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Coffee is an antioxidant. MMS is an an oxidizer. Coffee will cancel out the oxidizing effect of MMS. Same as Vitamin C = an antioxidant. Any antioxidants. MMS has been researched on thousands of patients - so I follow it and have great results.
Jim Humble's book has 320 pages and I am not going to spell all of it out here. Please purchase the book for $20. It will prevent you from making mistakes. Don't reinvent the wheel. Recipes for eyes, skin, other applications are in the book. I will not repeat them here.
The MAXIMUM activated drops should stay at 24 divided over an 8 hour time spread. Anything higher, can make you feel very sick and it totally against all recommendations.
Herxheimers are not desirable. MMS goes way beyond just the gut - I can feel it gently within minutes in my head, face, ears, wherever there is still some pathogen to capture. 250,000 eggs a day of Ascaris go everywhere - in every joint, muscle, organs.
MMS works if you do it right.
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
quote:Originally posted by GiGi: Razzle, Amalgam can be such a vicious thing and can cause an array of problems. Mercury moves into many different body areas and the skin is no exception. The law of osmosis takes care of that.
I would direct that question to the MMS Forum. They do a good job trying to answer. I think I linked it above.
As far as I know, MMS has not killed anyone, but Mercury has done that a million times.
I would not be alive any longer if I still had metals in my mouth, because parts had shifted from the teeth to everywhere else.
I am also sure that you have heard that many times before, and I hope you are asking for another person noticing that you have had symptoms for so many years.
Take care.
I got Lyme waaaayyyyyy before I had amalgam fillings...
But that aside, I couldn't find the link to the forum to ask the questions about MMS...
I also didn't ask my questions here to get a sales pitch for taking mercury out. I already have heard all of that stuff for years and years.
All I want to know is:
1. Is MMS safe to take if one is allergic to the chlorine in tap water and swimming pool water?
2. Is MMS safe to take if one has amalgams in their mouth?
I don't think taking MMS all the time for the rest of your life and teeth would be much fun. Maybe take another look at the Smoking Tooth. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylnQ-T7oiA
Metal toxicity is a major cause for allergic reactions. That may answer your other questions.
Mercury toxicity is passed along from Mom. Or via a number of other sources.
You can't say I haven't tried even though your comments are not very kind.
Just like to help.
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
quote: Coffee is an antioxidant. MMS is an an oxidizer. Coffee will cancel out the oxidizing effect of MMS
Apparently you weren't listening.
I did the pure water after the coffee enema and rinsed all the coffee out. The purpose of the coffee enema was to get the gall bladder to squirt bile through the liver and do some detoxing.
By the time I added the MMS, there were no traces of coffee in the colon.
And as for the 24 drops....that's if you're taking it orally AND putting 3 drops per 8 ounces.
Since I had 2 gallons of water in the colonic hopper, if you know your math and metrics, it would have required 96 drops of MMS to turn my colonic solution into the same strength as the 3 drops per 8 oz. solution that is taken orally.
In other words, my 32 drop solution was actually 1/3 the strength of what you are recommending to be taken orally.
Your post implies that by putting 2 gallons of water in my colon with 32 drops of MMS in it that my body absorbed all two gallons of water and all 32 drops of MMS. I don't think so!
quote: Chaps -- Why don't you try a little harder than your half-hearted attempt? haha, lol. Wow, you seem like a man on a mission!! Glad you survived it. Be careful not to overdo it. Who did the ozone insufflation for you?
Hi there Tammy! Good to hear from you. Yeah, I've been more aggressive in my treatments lately but I've worked my way up to this. My pathogen load is down and I've been improving. I'm committed to being done with this disease this year.
The ozone insufflations I do myself. I have an oxygen concentrator hooked up to dual chamber ozone generator. I run the ozone through a humidifying bubbler then into a catheter which is inserted rectally. When the colon is evacuated, you can fill up the colon very nicely with ozone.
I also do ozone saunas. I bought a cheap tent steam sauna and just run the ozone into that. There are youtube videos of people (I recall a blond German fraulein) who claims to have gotten rid of Lyme in one year just doing ozone saunas. I think the video is entitled "Ozone Knocks Out Lyme in One Year."
If you want to look into this, buy the book by Ed McCabe, "Flood Your Body With Oxygen" and you can purchase the ozone products on the PromoLife website.
Make no mistake, MMS is a powerful treatment, but is not the be-all end-all that someone here is trying to make it out to be.
She had everyone dropping 6-7 bills on those kooky hocus-pocus drops of water from Germany dat sposed to kurrectin zee dysrehgulaten in zee DNA---yaaaah. How'd that work out for ya?
And this Dr.in Seattle? Shoot, I know about a dozen people who gave this guy enough money to buy another HOUSE in hopes that this so-called "genius" could help them and they're no better off today than when they stepped on the plane to go and see him.
And after all this nonsense of talking about Kryptopylurria and Hypopyolurria (and other crazy words that I can't spell) ultra-expensive supplements, and actually getting people to drink their own pee and now he's telling people, "Gee, that MMS and the Salt/C Protocol are pretty good after all."
Gee thanks a lot! Why didn't you recommend these inexpensive, but effective therapies in the first place?
I feel so sorry for the people spent their life savings and last hope on this guy.
Taking money and creating the illusion that the results will be worth the money without being able to produce those results....morally reprehensible.
[ 04-29-2013, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
For those of you who want to know more about MMS, there are Yahoo groups that discuss their experiences with this.
There's a moderator who will answer your questions without the condescending snootiness and the "read the book, I'm not going to explain it to you here" attitude that we see so often here.
It sucks when people make posts that are like "drive-by shootings." They take their shots make grandiose claims, and then say, "I'm not going to explain it any more."
That reminds me of Kramer on Seinfeld when he does the "Peterman Reality Bus Tour" and yells to his customers, "no more questions."
Posted by Razzle (Member # 30398) on :
Gigi,
I am publicly apologizing to you.
My intention was not mean. I just wanted facts without having to wade through info of which I was already aware.
I am very sick right now (thanks to my annual April flareup) and don't have the strength or energy to dig through info I have already seen/read/heard to look for the tidbits for which I am seeking.
So again, please accept my apology. Take care,
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Chaps, WOW. Sad.
************************************************
Razzle, apology accepted. Thank you.
************************************************
In general, about the beloved Herxheimers:
"HERXHEIMER EFFECT (important comment about detoxification)
Sometimes when a person first begins to ingest a large amount of MMS or other powerful detoxifier, chlorine dioxide ions are extremely effective in cleansing the body of pathogens, heavy metals and other ballasts that the body no longer remove , storing them in adipose tissue, intestines, etc.
If the body is extremely intoxicated or sick, do not rush to give out all at once. If pathogens are killed too quickly, the 5 channels to eliminate them (like liver, kidneys, skin, lungs and intestines) could be temporarily overloaded by toxins resulted from MMS's action, causing a short "healing crisis" through flu symptoms, skin irritation, headaches, dizziness, nausea or cramps. All these symptoms should dissapear soon.This effect is called "Herxheimer" - aka "the Wellness Syndrome. "
They are so called after Dr. Karl Herxheimer, who first identified the phenomenon. It is the result of the death of tens of millions of pathogens that remove toxins when disintegrated. Elimination is so rapid and widespread that the body is unable to effectively process the toxins occurred, quickly enough to prevent the symptoms described above.Diarrhea may occur because the body tries to cleanse itself. In this case you just need to reduce the amount of MMS until the healing crisis has passed and then start to increase the dosage in small amounts, increasing gradually.
This purification process can be helped by ingestion of large quantities of pure clean water every day to help the body eliminate the millions of toxins appeared. Regular emptying of bowels is required to free us from the detoxification discomfort. Also an enema is welcome. Decide to exclude from your diet refined carbohydrates (white sugar, refined white flour and products derived therefrom, etc.) and saturated fat.
Avoid eating vitamin C or foods containing it while on treatment with MMS, and foods rich in antioxidants, especially artificial ones. MMS is a strong oxidizer and if we intake vitamin C or any other antioxidants you will not be harmed, but they will eliminate each other and the body will not benefit from the effects of either. Strive to do more exercise. If the opportunity is given, your body will amaze you with its ability to self heal.
Important notice: The Herxheimer effect is not a toxic reaction to MMS. In fact, the Herxheimer effect will trigger a toxic reaction , but not to MMS but against infections that are rapidly cleared from the body. It is important to note this difference, especially if the person wants to treat a chronic disease."
Yes Gigi, it really is sad that a doctor would take so much money out of sick peoples' pockets so that he could conduct experiments on them that don't work. And most of these people are not working due to their ill health and they need every penny.
Sad, indeed.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
lightfood, thank you for posting these links. In the meantime we have done some more research and there is only one Quinton. All others are not.
So I will stick with this and cut out something else in my life that is not as important. Please read about the history of Quinton, etc. Replacement for lost blood during the war!!!
Take care.
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
Chaps - Dr. K is not the money grabbing doc you are thinking him to be. Actually, his office fees are fairly reasonable considering all you get when you are with him. While out at his clinic, he recommends and introduces you to certain treatments. These can add up. But you don't have to do them. Since they are recommended, most people try them out. Then when they go back home, they try to find practitioners who can carry out these therapies (ozone saunas, colonics, various IVs, etc.)
I know many more LLMDs who charge A LOT more for their services. Plus they charge thousands for tests they want performed. Because of ART testing Dr. K saves his patients thousands of dollars. Plus he can test for things that regular labs cannot.
Finally, I have to add.... all the various talks we share on Lymenet about parasites, heavy metal toxicity, KPU, detoxification, EMFs, dental issues, etc. (the list goes on) etc..... it is Dr. K who put all of these pieces of the puzzle together decades ago. We all talk about it now as if it's common knowledge. Well it was his genius that pulled these pieces together. He has worked tirelessly at educating doctors across the globe on the importance of addressing all of these factors. Plus he is very generous with what he publishes as far as protocols, etc. The amount of detail he includes is amazing....enough that patients can go back to their doctors and just about follow instructions step by step.
Most of us on Lymenet would not know of all of these different (seemingly unrelated) components if it wasn't for GiGi's valuable posting. The dedication she has shown all these years in trying to introduce sick people to things that may help them is pretty amazing.....especially given all the resistance and scorn she has received all these years. (You know the famous saying about how All Truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed, Second it is violently opposed, Third it is accepted as self evident). I feel this summarizes what GiGi has experienced first hand because of her posting. I don't know many people who would be willing to keep forging ahead. But her passion is to help people, and educate them on what she has learned (most of it first-hand with Dr. K), so she stays on.
Without a doubt GiGi has been the most knowledgeable and helpful poster on this board, to me personally. It was her posts that opened my eyes to things for which I had no clue, and brought me to Dr. K and his treatments. I have been battling this monster for almost 20 years and was going downhill very badly. One of my biggest problems was parasites....which NO DOC even considers. I honestly don't think I would have lived much longer had I not found my way to Dr. K. For this I cannot thank GiGi enough. Grateful does not even come close.
Posted by Lee (Member # 23768) on :
I have not been on lymenet for a very long time, but I can see that very little has changed. There are still arguments going on. Weirdly I find them on the threads where Gigi posts.
Let's get over the arguing. Gigi has some info and others ask questions. No reaons for anyone to get huffy or rude. No reason to tell someone to do their own research. No reason to apologize to Gigi. (ex; razzle)
We seem to forget that we are here to ask questions and pass on information. Not everyone is able to do a lot of research and rely on others to do it for them. Yet, each person is responsible for making their own decisions.
Have I gotten info from Gigi and used it? Sure. Am I happy about how it worked out--NO! But I am the one who made the decision.
(So, Gigi is not God. Dr. K is not God. I have one God--my Father in heaven.)
What works for one person may or may not work for another. Insisting one way is the only way or the best way benefits no one, but simply stirs up controversy.
Play nice or don't post.
Lee
[ 04-22-2013, 02:07 PM: Message edited by: Lee ]
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
I'm guessing you are referring to my post when you say GiGi is not God, Dr. K is not God (??). If it was my post you had in mind when saying that.....well, I do not place anyone on par with God. What you picked up on is my gratitude. For these last few months, I've been repeating to my husband how grateful I am to have finally found a path at long last that is leading me to wellness (it just happens to be thru GiGi that I found my way). As I was typing my post above, I felt moved to put my gratitude into words. That's all.
Chaps and I are friends. I was sharing with him my first-hand experiences. I think a lot of people have an impression about Dr. K and costs, so I wanted to share my thoughts and experiences.
I agree we should all play nice. I never want anyone to feel offended or angered by my posts. I have such respect for Lymenet and everyone who posts here.
Have a good day everyone. I'm off to doctor's appointment.
Posted by Lee (Member # 23768) on :
Tammy,
I had no poster in mind when I wrote my post--just noticed the overall negativity by a lot of people on this thread.
I am now leaving lymenet for another much needed break from the negativity.
Be well.
Lee
[ 04-22-2013, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Lee ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I just had a call from an 84 year old gentleman --his voice sounded like that of a 45 year old -- and he told me that he got rid of Lyme with MMS after one year of using a similar protocol as I have been posting.
He had lost all symptoms after doing it one year, but stayed on the program for another year. Because of his age, he is now taking a few drops twice a week to prevent any infection of any kind. He sounded and is fit as a fiddle. His wife also had Lyme and parasites (microscopic size) and did the identical protocol and is totally well.
Take care.
P.S. Thanking Tammy for her efforts to defend Dr. K. The only thing I can add is that I don't know of any other doctor who treats so many for free, including dogs and horses. For many years, any treatment, such as Neural Therapy and others, material, homeopathics specifically prepared for the individual, etc. -- all was charged within the 2/3rd hourly fee compared to other doctors, and not a penny extra.
And now I am done with wasting time, but quietly wondering where the forum leaders are that tolerate such an outburst of insults toward a doctor who has done the utmost for the Lyme world and still puts his license on the line every day.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi,
you have helped so many of us. I thank you (and another lady on lymenet) every morning again when I wake up.
Especially I thank you for the mms information, great stuff and so easy to tolerate. I would not have known about it without your posts.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
I followed Gigi's suggestion for a doctor, and am finally on the road to recovery after five years no hope and hospitals. Prior to that i was misdiagnosed by one LLMD, then treated by two others which resulted in severe liver disease! I ask my doctor about remedies that Gigi recommends and many help tremendously, such as MMS...
I grateful that she is a source of the latest information for sick people with few options.... Antibiotics are not for everyone and i will have damaged organs forever as result... That's my experience. And by the way MMS Works!!!
Posted by Indica440 (Member # 39461) on :
i must be a genious too - because i figured the most stuff out that dr.k figured out on my own without thinking too much about it. sadly it has not been a game changer for me. the only thing i didnt try yet is to push through the KPU protocol.
but let me get to the point. ART can be a useful tool. for example for me dopamine and vitamin D deficiency was true... still didnt improve much when i did supplements for it. then i tryed a custom protocol by an ART practitioner. it was OK but i did not see enough improvement for the cost. i think the most benefits were from some anti inflammatory effects of the herbs. same for the later "real dr.k cocktail"
it does not seem to work for me.
cheers,
indica440
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Indica, if you have a problem with KPU, your chances for detoxing are very small. With an incomplete mineral base, it just can't quite happen. You may want to look into that and correct KPU.
Take care.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Gigi,
Do you ever take breaks from MMS for a day or two. For those who work it might not be possible to do every single day.
My fellow teacher and lyme sufferer who wants to do the MMS baby bottle method is finding it very hard as she has to eat at a certain time which interferes or if she takes the kids on a field trip etc.
I suppose interrupting it for a few days might be necessary for some??? I can't imagine pulling out the MMS and shot glass during church--LOL.
Hker53
Posted by lymewarrior03 (Member # 3891) on :
Gigi, I am well, thanks! Thinking of myself as "Lymewarrior" helped me feel strong. The term seems to help others as well.
[ 04-25-2013, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: lymewarrior03 ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Hiker, That's exactly what I do. I have my small bottle in my purse and the tiny glass, and just like most people when they carry their water bottles around, I take a sip of MMS. And if I were in church, God I think would appreciate the good I do for myself. Since I have been taking my little sips, several people I support, are doing the same thing. Most are half my age and all are fully employed leading a busy life. All are doing very well by doing things the "slow" but constant way.
I tell myself: Parasites do not kill themselves, but they form cysts and/or hide in the most inaccessible places, such as the feet, joints, top of head, etc. where they survive doing only as much damage so as not to destroy their home (in my body), but building more and more biofilm blocking circulation and causing more and more stress to major organs and more hiding places.
If I felt unwell by too much toxin release, I might slow down. But that is not the case. So I go on until I no longer test for any parasite, any metals, or for MMS. Energetic testing is my guide.
I hope it will work for your friend when she decides she wants to do it.
Posted by MattH (Member # 30846) on :
So what are the symptoms of too much toxin release?
Feeling kind of spacey, short term memory is worse than normal, a bit off balance and more tired than normal.
Thoughts?
All the Best, MattH
Posted by map1131 (Member # 2022) on :
Matt, when you kidneys, gall bladder and liver are screaming and you feel very toxic from head to toe.....that's a toxic overload.
Pam
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Matt.
I am not using MMS right now, but yesterday I could tell I was releasing and removing toxins of some sort--felt off balance, legs very weak, tired, and sensitive to stimuli--such as noises. Also my ear pressure increases and I sweat a lot.
Sometimes silicea reduces the symptoms if it is a toxic chemical. Zeolite and Pekana products reduce the symptoms if it is a metal.
Today I am much better--who knows why.
I think everyone experiences detox symptoms in different manners.
Of course a toxic drug or supplement could cause those symptoms as well.
Hiker53
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Matt, Have been wondering about the different therapies you seem to be doing at the same time; Ozone, Klinghardt Cocktail, MMS, each one of them having lasting effect the body needs to deal with. Some of them may negate the effects of MMS -- I do not know the total ingredients of your cocktail.
All work with different frequencies, which is what it really comes down to and what we feel. We are an electric body.
Pam said it right. If our body cannot keep up, it starts to backfire and sets us back. I never believed in herxheimers or speeding things up --- it simply does not work -- our body is not built to work well in this way.
In general, I tested myself (with tensor) this AM and I am now testing for viruses. This coincides with Dr. K.'s comments about starting with the largest (parasites) followed by fungi, bacteria and then the smallest - viruses. The Babuschka Principle I posted about many months ago. MMS still tests as an anti-med and so I will continue with it. I also test for Viressence, a super antiviral combi. But since MMS treats all, will stick with it.
Later today I will get a colonic, and it will be interesting to see what happens tomorrow. I have great respect for Ascaris and the talked-about 200,000 eggs right around Full Moon!
Best to all.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
MMS does indeed kill pathogens. Here is post that explains that it kills pathogens and also a few brain cells. This is from a MD who is into alternative therapies and she presents a different side to MMS.
[ 04-28-2013, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
From the above link:
" What is more, our brains have a high oxygen demand, and thus are particularly sensitive to oxidative damage. So it doesn't come as a surprise that our mind is often the canary in the coal mine.
We often notice our body's first inflammatory effects through brain fog, memory problems, and insomnia.
Hypochlorous acid has the potential to be extremely neurotoxic to our brains, where it literally oxidizes certain lipids and proteins, preventing them from performing their functions and contributing to neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease and Multiple Sclerosis."
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
My concern in general is that any remaining candida easily acquired and multiplied by abx or other exposure may look like Lyme Disease continued.
I remember from years ago that no reaction is as miserable as candida die-off -- there is simply none like it. It becomes worse when candida persists causing other painful problems to surface that are then misinterpreted and treated incorrectly.
Check out my post on "All About Candida" which receives similar negatives as I usually do with almost anything that I say that is against the norm.
I contacted www.candidadr.com and received this message this morning:
"Thank You so much for contacting us. MMS will not interfere the Candida program, however, Dr. Humiston doesn't recommends long term use of MMS. He has found that it (MMS gg) is very effective in treating viral and bacterial infections, but he has not found it to be effective in treating Candida.
Dr. Humiston recommends using the Candida program by itself so that you can more clearly see the full effects of this program. Afterwards you can try other supplements ans see their individual benefits.
You can schedule an appointment or a phone consultation with Dr. Humiston by calling his clinic. They will be more than happy to assist you. Center for Health and Well Being, 3636 5th ave. San Diego, CA. 92103. (619) 814-5500.
Please if you have any more questions or concern don't hesitate to contact us."
These comments agree with comments by A. Kalcker from lectures/YouTubes/interviews about MMS: MMS works on some fungi, but not all. So in order to get positive results from damaging candida, one has to use different methods. If Dr. Humiston has treated more than a thousand people for Candida, I believe in what he says.
I still believe in the integrity of people - I have eyes and ears and am not easily stopped by lists of negatives from naysayers.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Gigi,
I don't think that people raising questions or asking for more verification or research makes someone a naysayer.
You give a lot of great information as do a lot of people around me. Most of us do not go on one person's testimonial. I certianly believe that you think MMS is helping you. (You certainly felt strongly about the bionic 880and Dr.W, as I recall, but changed your mind about that doctor's protocol later.)
I don't necessarily believe testimonials put out on the websites of people/companies that sell products or make a montary gain from them.
When others here on lymenet step up and say they have used the candida protocol succesfully that you posted on another thread, then I think you will have more positive feedack.
When more people step up and say that MMS has been successful (on this site) like Bob did than more people may take a chance.
I would like to hear from more people who have used the baby bottle method of MMS for awhile or have completed the protocol before I would make a decision (besides the fact I energetically do not test well for it right now).
I made a huge mistake with several other protocols that people said worked, because I did not wait long enough to see if they really worked. Testimony from someone who is still in the process of doing the protocol,even if they think it is helping now, is not enough for me.
That does not make me a naysayer. That makes me cautious.
I appreciate all of the information you give. Just because I present another MD's viewpoint, does not mean my eyes and ears are not open. This is not about being negative towards you. Please do not take it personally.
Blessings.
Hiker53 edited for spelling error
[ 04-29-2013, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Hiker, There is a huge difference between people that respond and people that respond. Some are downright insulting to me, some I totally understand and appreciate. Everyone has to do their own research. All I can report is what I have been told by the people whom I trust.
Just read some of the garbage that was written in response to my various postings. I no longer read it because it is irrational and not worth my time. Some of what you personally said is included in that. And some of what you personally write is not based on facts and not on the truth. That includes your comments about the Bionic. I use the Bionic to this very day and love it as much as I did on day one.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I am glad you like the bionic--I was referring to Dr. W and his protocol that you did not like. I believe you changed your mind about him and the short time in which he felt he could cure Lyme. I kinow there is a good biophoton thread going on right now---perhaps you could lend your expertise there (that is a honest statement, not sarcasm)
"Everyone has to do their own research"
I could not agree more with your statement, Gigi. I am doing research and when my research does not agree with yours, I think we will just have to "agree to disagree."
I am not trying to be rude to you. I have looked through all of my posts on this thread and cannot find one that is rude to you. I may present a different viewpoint, but I have done so politely.
I am asking for more people on this site who have used MMS in the baby protocol way to step forward and respond.
I do not believe everything Jim Humble has said about MMS. For example, he believes it kills candida. I don't believe that and neither does the MD you mentioned on your candida thread.
Again, Gigi this is not personal. Just because I don't agree or I ask for more information, does not mean I am being rude to you.
Hiker53 edited again for spelling errors
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Anyone have any idea about my experience with MMS:
Took for ~3 months. At first it produced horrendous crying herxes, even at work, then I would feel better. Those went away eventually but none of my other symptoms (CNS) seemed to be affected. I stopped using it after awhile because it absolutely made me retch -- oh! the smell drove everyone around me nuts! -- and seemed to have no effect whatsoever and I still had my same symptoms.
I wonder if it (MMS) gets broken down in the stomach and thus can't get to serious invaders in the CNS?
Re the Dr K thing -- I think he has extremely valuable info and would love to see him myself. However, I do have one objection to him and that is that he seems to announce a serious condition that impedes our health (KPU, etc) and then suddently has a very expensive supplement for just that condition. That makes me a bit suspicious.
Has anyone here truly seen a turnaround in their health by addressing KPU (maybe taking Dr K's Core product)?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
CD57,
How much MMS were you taking per day? Did you use the baby bottle method outined by Gigi.
Thank you for your feedback.
I did take the Core minerals from Biopure (Dr. K) when I was releasing a lot of metals. Because of all of my symptoms I cannot say if it helped or not. Energetically I tested well for it and took it until I did not test well for it anymore. I do not know if I have KPU or not--just assumed I would need minerals if I was letting go of metals.
Hiker53
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
CD57, I have no opinion about your results with MMS. As I have suggested here so many times, please read the book and listen to the many reports that are available on the net as well as a number of different MMS forums where you can ask all the questions and get answers. I spend many hours doing just that.
Dr. K. told me the first year I saw him that this is a disease where the patient has to participate. There is no free ride, because there was hardly a book written about anything pertaining to Lyme and especially not about the other parts of the disease --- the hidden infections and causes. In fact, he gave me chores to do even though I was totally "out of it" at that time, and couldn't find the key on a keyboard or any of the rest.
I can answer your questions about KPU. I did not test for KPU for a long time, and only recently found I needed to correct it. I was repeatedly tested for KPU with ART by several of the best testers and I did not need it.
Sometimes it is a genetic problem, sometimes it is Lyme induced and with me I am sure it happened because somewhere I suffered from severe problems due to EMF and possible remaining metal toxicity. Sometimes problems arise due to stress. I had considerable stress burying my husband not too long ago.
KPU was known in Europe years ago, as HPU. A v famous professor in Canada treated it for years under a different name using different products.
Similar supplements as CORE treating KPU are available in Europe because that is where KPU was recognized many years ago. Books were written about it and the supplement to correct KPU is also available there. Just as expensive. To this day, the lab test for KPU is not available in this country, but has to be shipped overthere. Dr. K. developed the CORE which covers KPU much better than the one available in Europe. It is especially manufactured for KPU and that costs more than if you were to purchase a run-of-the-mill supplement. It costs more to put the ingredients in CORE together separately. I tried it. Dr. K. worked on designing CORE for a couple of years. He applied the knowledge gained by treating many different patients as well as the info he gains from all the ART practitioners in Europe who in turn deal with many patients.
I can only assume that you have not eliminated or reduced other exposures (bad emotional environment, mold, toxic metals and chemicals, EMF, geopathic stress in sleeping place, etc. etc.
I am amazed at how suspicious people are. I count myself lucky that I learned about the KPU problem because I had huge accumulations of toxic metals and am still detoxing right now with MMS.
It is not only a matter of how much MMS one is taking -it is also a matter of doing it the right way. The books and websites, and interview YouTubes explain most of what needs so be known.
If you have a solid parasite problem, have you seen the parasite protocol that is used alongside MMS that I have mentioned before. Sometimes other products are needed. Go to Genesis website and check it out. You may be surprised that one thing alone cannot always accomplish everything. Look at the Kerri Rivera protocol for Autistic children. They have every problem and co-infection most [eople on LN have. Check what she uses. Have a look at her protocol on MMS Autism. Look at how important minerals are in her protocol. I posted about Quinton.
Sorry this is so long =
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
Energetic testing is only good for the Here and Now. It does not tell the future needs. That is why it is best to at least learn some method of testing.
To stop something as important as CORE because it does not test on a certain day is foolish. I know a lot of people who revamp their whole program in that manner. It is not the right way to do it.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Gigi,
I see you are slamming me again in a subtle fashion and making an assumption that I quit Core because it did not test well on a certain day. I certainly did not quit Core based on one energetic test. I took it for quite a long while and tested for it energetically often--myself and someone qualified would also test me.
I always get someone else qualified in energetic testing to test supplements and potential protocols. If a protocol does not test well for me on one day it might again another day or in another week or another month etc.
For example, I have not tested well for MMS or Lufernunon since I have been looking into both of these products for quite awhile. Since I know I might be biased, I had someone else test me several times over several weeks to be sure. I still do not test well for them. I might in the future.
I have not released metals in some time. If I start releasing metals again, I would certainly use CORE again.
I am leaving this thread for now as it seems you and I cannot get along and there is no reason for us to continue going back and forth--simply a waste of energy in a negative fashion.
Blessings.
Hiker53
Posted by CD57 (Member # 11749) on :
Argh Gigi! You seem to take offense so easily. I get really tired of this, although we know you mean well.
I read everything I could get my hands on about MMS, am a serious researcher of my own treatments, as are many on this board. I am a serious participant in my own care, again as are many are this board. Don't assume that we haven't "done our research".
I was relaying my experience with MMS, and that's it.
In my experience, I am always suspicious when someone announces a brand new very expensive proprietary supplement. As someone on this board said, my mind is open, my wallet is closed.
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
I posted the anti-MMS article by Dr. Gabriela Segura on a yahoo group to see what people there had to say about it. None other than Jim Humble responded thusly:
Jim Humble writes: I have been noticing a few people for one reason or another have been attempting to debunk MMS. The one overriding characteristics of all these people even this doctor, Gabriela, is the fact that they know very little about chemistry and especially about the chemistry of Chlorine Dioxide. They are extremely interested in proving MMS wrong without any proof, and they seldom will talk to me. THEY HAVE ALL REFUSED TO CHECK OUT MY ACTUAL OPERATIONS. Gabriela has refused to answer direct emails. But the damaging part for them is that they, none of them, have bothered to look up the chemistry of chlorine dioxide, and they certainly have not tried to understand the chemistry.
I begin to wonder if anyone understands this. Gabriela and others who try to debunk MMS have not taken the time to check out one single person who claims to be cured. Nor have they bothered to check the actual chemistry of chlorine dioxide.
I have not listed a great number of references (there are a few) in my following comments as i do not feel that it is necessary. Just plain old everday logic and high school chemistry that most of us had proves my point. However i reference Andreas Kalcker's article giving my same opinions but he has given dozens of references proving Gabriela false.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The Miracle Mineral Solution (MMS) is marketed feverishly as a miraculous alternative treatment for AIDS, hepatitis, malaria, herpes, tuberculosis, cancer and many more of mankind�s most feared diseases. The truth is that MMS is a dangerous poison, and as such it has no business whatsoever in the alternative health arena.
Jim Humble responds: She makes the statement that MMS is a dangerous poison. She might have also stated that the FDA has approved of the use of sodium chlorite (same chemical as MMS) for use in foods, on vegetables (and may be used without washing it off), and may be used on meats of all kinds including fish and may be used without washing it off. Does that sound like a dangerous poison? She is trying to make MMS and the chemical chlorine dioxide look bad and I guess she might be successful at that, but it is basically not true. It is a poison like any other non-poisonous chemical in our civilization -- only when used in large quantities. It is one of the most useful chemicals known and is used throughout our civilization. Her statements will scare people from trying it and thus they will continue much suffering when it is not necessary.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Many people do not know that MMS is essentially bleach. It�s very effective for killing bacteria in toilets,
Jim Humble responds: It is not used in household toilets or as household bleach anywhere in the world. It is only used as an industrial bleach but at more than 1200 times the strength of MMS.
Gabriela Segura, MD: but you certainly shouldn�t be swallowing it. The active ingredient in MMS is not a mineral,
Jim Humble responds: She should have learned in high school chemistry that anything that is not animal or vegetable has got to be mineral. The fact is that the active ingredient in MMS is a mineral. But of course Gabriela insists that it is not a mineral. However (sodium chlorite which is MMS in water) is found in various deposits of rock in various parts of the world. The fact is the active ingredient in MMS is a mineral. However the fact is that sometimes it is more convenient to manufacture it, but that doesn�t make it any less a mineral. Check it out on the internet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: but chlorine dioxide (oxygenated chlorine) which is formed from the chemical combination of sodium chlorite and acetic acid (vinegar) or citric acid.
Jim Humble responds: Chlorine dioxide is not considered oxygenated chlorine in the chemical world. Gabriela doesn�t even know how to refer to this chemical), and it is not true that sodium chlorite and acetic or citric acid make any kind of a chemical combination. It would only be right that Gabriela at least learn the chemistry before she begins her criticism.
Gabriela Segura, MD: MMS as a poison does kill intrusive germs in your body, but it would be naive to believe it to be carefully selective in what it kills and destroys,
Jim Humble responds: See my references at the end of this article. I have listed 6 companies that use chlorine dioxide because it is selective and their comments on the selectivity. I have shown where the EPA has written a paragraph about the selectivity of chlorine dioxide in their specifications sheet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: or to think that the damage done has only limited consequences. It is shocking that MMS is recommended so widely, that it is recommended to already weakened individuals AND that it is recommended for long-term use. In truth, the potential long-term and dangerous side effects of regular MMS use should give anyone the shivers.
Jim Humble responds: Does anyone see anything wrong with this last statement? Well, when trying to ruin someone�s reputation you don�t just get to make one unsubstantiated statement after the other. Not only is it unfair but most people can see right through it. You need to back up your statements with logical data or actual facts. Do i need to point it out? There are no facts or substantiation in this statement above ending with, �should give anyone the shivers.�
Gabriela Segura, MD: Before we continue, an important lesson on oxidation and free radicals is needed to help us understand the long-term consequences of the use of MMS1 and its successor MMS2. This information is crucial to see why MMS is NOT an alternative health solution.
Oxygen is an essential element that supports life, but in the wrong place or at the wrong time, oxygen can wreak much havoc on our cells, causing cancer, contributing to cardiovascular disease, degenerative diseases, and aging through a process called oxidation. You have seen the effects of oxidation whenever you have observed an apple turn brown and go bad after being exposed to air, or when you see the flame of a candle.
We use oxygen in order to take electrons from the sugar and fat molecules that we use for fuel. The molecules we wish to keep intact, however, are subject to oxygen�s burning influence and they are at risk of losing electrons as well. The fire from a candle flame aptly illustrates oxidation in which the electrons of the candle wax are ripped off by oxygen in the atmosphere with the resulting, self-perpetuating release of light and heat. As oxygen makes its way through the body, many of its molecules lose an electron. This means that they become chemically unstable and highly reactive ions as free radicals are formed. These unstable metabolic by-products of energy production in cells strive to stabilize by �stealing� a replacement electron from any neighboring molecule, leaving even more damaged molecules in their wake. This is how free radicals in our bodies are produced and cause inflammation, a process that is best known as oxidative stress or oxidative damage. Oxidation can even cause debilitating changes to your DNA.
Jim Humble responds: Although chlorine dioxide is an oxidizer, it does not use oxygen in any way, thus Gabriela once again shows her ignorance of the process. Oxidative stress has to do with oxygen. Chlorine dioxide (MMS) has an oxidation potential (voltage) of .95 volts which is much less than oxygen. Oxygen has an oxidation potential of 1.28 volts. There is nothing in the human body that chlorine dioxide can oxidize given the low concentration that is used by MMS (concentration used in MMS is .016%).
If oxygen was doing the damage that she says, then it would be killing the beneficial bacteria that resides in the stomach and the intestines. But guess what, there are no clinical trials proving that oxygen does damage in the body. It is all conjecture by people like Gabriela. Oxygen travels throughout the body killing pathogens and overcoming inflamation. MMS has an oxidation potential that is the lowest oxidation potential of all the oxidants that are ever in the body. If oxygen doesn't do damage then MMS is much less likely to do damage.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Depending on where this oxidative damage takes place, it can lead to any number of the following diseases: atherosclerosis (plaque in blood vessels), cancer, arthritis, cataracts, neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer�s disease, autoimmune diseases, and many other health problems generally related to aging. Any free radical involving oxygen can be referred to as a Reactive Oxygen Species (ROS). A perfect example of a ROS is hypochlorous acid, which is now also known as Miracle Mineral Solution 2 (MMS2). Keep in mind that the loss of electrons from molecules whose integrity is vital to the structure of our cell membranes, DNA, skin or eyes results in damage and disease. Oxidation is the most toxic force affecting all the molecules of the body; it�s the enemy of youth, the ally of all diseases, and the fundamental mechanism of all injury, all aging, and eventually, of death
Jim Humble responds: [1]. First let me mention that the human body has been generating hypochlorous acid to fight disease and infections for hundreds of thousands of years. It has proven that helping the body with a little extra of this acid is in many cases extremely helpful. Without oxidation you would be dead within minutes. In fact, when you take the poison cyanide that is what happens, cyanide prevents oxidation in your body and it kills you faster than any other poison known. This lady is trying to scare you concerning oxidation but the fact is that it is an absolute necessity in your body. That is what generates your body heat and helps with digestion and every time you move a muscle, oxidation happens to make the muscle work. You would die within minutes if oxygen was not oxidizing the poisons that the operation of you body generates.
Gabriela Segura, MD: By now, you should understand why anti-oxidants are so important. Antioxidants help to counteract or neutralize the free radicals before they can damage our healthy cells by lending a hand (actually, an electron) when stabilization is needed. This is the reason why we are fond of so many antioxidants such as vitamin C, E, carotenoids, resveratrol, taurine, coenzyme Q10, and melatonin, to name but a few.
Jim Humble responds: Any nutrient or chemical can be over done and thus become a poison. All critics go on and on about MMS being a poison, but the fact remains that at .016% strength, MMS doses are not a poison to the body. The fact is many new things continue to be learned and unlearned. Taking antioxidants has been proclaimed as great by many nutritionists. But the amazing fact is, 95% of mankind does not take antioxidants and even more amazing is the fact that there are no official clinical trials using placebos to prove that taking antioxidants is beneficial. Do you take antioxidants? Nutritionists like to sell pills and make a living and perhaps they are correct, but there is no collaborating scientific evidence that they are correct. Again, Gabriela is just giving us her opinion.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Each person is exposed to oxidants and each one of us has a variety of antioxidant defenses and DNA repair ability. These factors together determine the extent of oxidant-induced DNA damage in each of us, and the levels of such damage may well contribute to cancer risk, especially in tissues where other changes may have already occurred. But keep in mind that DNA protection is essential not only to guard us from cancer, but also because in all of our cells, DNA carries our ancestral identity and the instructions and information that maintain our bodies. We might also wonder what other special properties could be lying dormant in our DNA.
But for now, let�s get back to MMS1, which is basically the combination of sodium chlorite and acetic acid (vinegar) or citric acid which together form chlorine dioxide (oxygenated chlorine)
Jim Humble responds: Wrong again! That isn�t what makes chlorine dioxide. When acid is added to sodium chlorite, the pH is brought downwards to an acidic condition (to about 4.8 ) which then causes the sodium chlorite to become unstable and the sodium atoms begin to come losoe from their attraction to the chlorine dioxide, leaving fully functional chlorine dioxide molecules. Any acid will do this, but the fact is just plain water will do it as well, so an acid is not necessary to form chlorine dioxide.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The toxic effects of chlorine dioxide are associated with those of sodium chlorite � a very strong oxidant that at a dose of 10-15 grams is considered to be lethal. Even small amounts of about 1 gram can be expected to cause nausea and vomiting. Now get this: the MMS protocol suggests that taking up to 60 drops per day is within reason. There are 20 drops in one gram, which means that the protocol may call for the ingestion of 3 grams or more of what amounts to household bleach. This is three times the amount required to produce nausea and vomiting and 20% of the amount required to kill you [2]. Even though we are told that nausea and diarrhea are positive signs of detoxification when following the MMS protocol, you can be sure that they are actually the way our body tells us that we�ve just been poisoned. If you happen to vomit, then be reassured that it might have saved your life by way of avoiding a lethal overdose of MMS! There are in fact several testimonials of negative side effects and at least one death related to MMS which you can easily find on the internet
Jim Humble responds: [2]. Well, let�s see what she got wrong this time. A drop of MMS is only 22.4% sodium chlorite so 60 drops which is supposed to be 3 grams of sodium chlorite according to Gabriela is actually 22.4% times 3 grams which equals only .67 grams. So it�s not really 3 grams after all. But I said that years ago. It��s been more than 2 years since I suggested that a 60 drops dose was possible and even then I didn�t recommend it. Normally we only take 3 drop doses nowadays. The death that Gabriela would like to report as related to MMS was never related except in minds like Gabriela. They will do anything to substantiate that thing that proves their contention, be it true or not. But let me mention this: more than 900,000 people died last year after taking a standard medical drug. They didn�t die from the disease; they died after taking the drug from reactions caused by the drug. Out of 10 million users of MMS, there are no reported deaths that were substantiated in any way.
Gabriela Segura, MD: The popularity of MMS and its fervent, almost religious marketing involved the claim of curing malaria in tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. Sounds very noble indeed, but this is only natural as MMS� sodium chlorite is well known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells � meaning that red blood cells are ruptured and destroyed. It is actually by killing red blood cells that the malaria parasite is killed since it invades red blood cells. MMS probably kills the parasite and the red blood cells. In fact, MMS consumers may develop anemia.
Jim Humble responds: Do you see? She has substantiated nothing here. She has just made a bunch of claims. She at least says �probably� and �may,� most of my critics don�t bother to say probably, they just state it as a fact. MMS is not known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells. There is no such evidence. MMS consumers do not develop anemia, as out of millions of people who have used it, none have reported anemia. Patents issued in 1982 and in 1990 and in 1992 prove that MMS (chlorine dioxide) does not cause hemolysis in red blood cells as the chlorine dioxide is used to clean the red blood cells of various impurities in these patents. The fact is, hemolysis in red blood cells and anemia caused by MMS (chlorine dioxide) is an invention of this lady, Dr. Gabriela, as this data is not found anywhere in the literature. Chlorine dioxide (MMS) has been used to clean red blood cells of pathogens and other poisons for more than 28 years in special hospitals and trial cases. The following patents you can read proving this fact and there are about 12 more patents based on Chlorine dioxide cleaning the blood without any biological damage. Patent numbers5,185,371 and 5,211,912 and 4,971,760 and 4,944,920.
But wait a minute, now Gabriela says yes to MMS killling malaria. So I'll tell you this, anyone who has ever had malaria would 1000 times rather have anemia than malaria. So if we were to listen to her, we could at least use it for killing malaria. And anemia is easy to overcome.
Gabriela Segura, MD: MMS really does sound like a dangerous allopathic drug, similar to antibiotics or chemotherapy. Why is it that we don�t see many efforts to remove this poison from the market when in recent times there has been a push to remove healthy vitamins and antioxidants by agencies like the FDA and Codex? MMS is more of a killer than antibiotics and has the potential to kill all kinds of microbes including viruses. Such a killer weapon has other consequences for your body, and killer therapies should never be the first course of action when dealing with disease. They should never be an option when we are able to take control of our health through diet and appropriate, real alternative health therapies.
Jim Humble responds: Well, i agree with her about health therapies, but of the other things she says, are again,unsubstantiated. Do you see, when a critic such as Gabriela makes many dumb and unsubstantiated accusations, I shouldn't have to prove they are false, it is her job to prove they are correct and she has never done that.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Let us review some safety data sheets of MMS ingredients: Chlorine dioxide is a strong oxidant, and as such it reacts violently with combustible materials, mercury, ammonia, sulphur and many organic compounds [3]. Sodium chlorite is a strong irritant of the skin, eyes, and respiratory tract; a strong oxidizer that promotes combustion; concentrated solutions may be corrosive to the skin and eyes; mild hemolytic anemia and increased methemoglobin in males was observed in animal feeding studies [4]. Acute health effects of chlorine dioxide: ingestion is not a normal route of exposure (except thanks to MMS!), harmful if swallowed, can cause irritation to mouth, esophagus, stomach, and mucous membranes (hence, the diarrhea, nausea and vomiting!). Eye contact: contact causes redness, irritation, pain, blurred vision, tearing, corneal injury and burns. Inhalation: harmful if inhaled, coughing, headaches, labored breathing, nausea, shortness of breath, pulmonary edema. Chronic health effects: may have effects on lungs, resulting in chronic bronchitis and permanent lung damage [5]. In short, MMS should NEVER be a health treatment, alternative or otherwise!
Jim Humble responds: There she goes again. All these studies were with chlorine dioxide that was thousands of times stronger than that used in MMS. Consider that MMS is never used even as strong as sprinkling table salt on you food. Low level chlorine dioxide is so effective that last month a case of very bad bronchitis was overcome while the person affected continued to smoke cigarettes. Consider, all chemicals are dangerous in large quantities, and all medical drugs are based on using small quantities of very dangerous chemicals, and you will use about 2 mg of salt on your salad tonight, and one pound of salt taken at one time will kill you. The exactly same thing is true of MMS. So what! We have to use each chemical within its limits.
Actually it really is somewhat irritating when a person claiming to be a doctor just starts talking, telling people she is a doctor, when she says nothing logical that a real doctor would say. Looking immediately above, the safety data sheet that Gabriela is talking about referes to a 10% gas of chlorine dioxide. Please look at that figure of 10%. That is because the MMS strength is .016% instead of the 10% that Gabriela is talking about. Can you see the difference in the strength? MMS is 1250 times weaker in strength than the Chlorine dioxide that Gabriela is talking about.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Now here is where things get even more interesting. Enter MMS2, which works more subtly and therefore more dangerously than its predecessor.
MMS2 is basically calcium hypochlorite, which is a chemical compound widely used for water treatment and as a bleaching and disinfecting agent (bleaching powder). This one is indeed a mineral, (YES BUT NO MORE OF A MINERAL THAN MMS1) but a mineral that reacts to produce hypochlorous acid when ingested. Hypochlorous acid (HOCl), which is a combination of hydrogen, oxygen, and chlorine, is what some of our white blood cells produce in order to kill bacteria through the well-known process called oxidation. HOCl is a powerful oxidant indeed, and as I mentioned before, it is the perfect example of a hazardous reactive oxygen species (ROS). Just as with MMS1, pathogens can�t develop a resistance to MMS2 and this is related to the powerful free radicals that it liberates.Sound good? Well, not really. MMS2 is meant to create high concentrations of this dangerous oxidative hypochlorous acid in our bodies in order to kill �powerful and incurable� diseases, or so it is claimed. Unfortunately, the amount of HOCl that our body is already capable of producing on its own is dangerous enough. In fact, some of our white blood cells have toxic and damaging effects on our DNA through the formation of hypochlorous acid. What is more, antioxidants are being studied and used successfully to block hypochlorous acid from creating DNA damage Yes, DNA damage! This is dangerous to the extreme!
Jim Humble responds: Again, i hope you recognize opinions. These are Gabriela�s opinions. Do you see references to her data? She makes it sound like data, but there is no such proof on the internet. DNA damage is again Gabriela's opinion. There are no clinical trial proofs of that anywhere on the web.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Another way in which MMS2 can cause damage is through activation of �evil� transcription factors. Free radicals such as hypochlorous acid and other toxins may cause transcription factors to initiate a series of genetic reactions that result in cancer. Transcription factors are proteins that facilitate gene expression � that is, they cause genetic material to do something. A particular transcription factor, NF kappa B, is influenced by free radicals or toxins which usually activate it. Once activated, this transcription factor goes into the nucleus of our cells where our DNA resides and may activate genes that might change a potentially malignant cell into an absolutely malignant cell [8]. Hypochlorous acid (MMS2) activates this infamous NF-kappa B transcription factor, especially in the absence of antioxidants like taurine [11,12]. NF-kappa B has also a crucial role in inflammation, and thus ultimately it induces illness. That MMS2 is promoted as a cure for cancer and many other illnesses is just plain baffling.
Jim Humble responds: This is baffling to Gabriela, but it just happens we have thousands of letters from people who say that they have been what she suggests: Cured. You will note in this paragraph she uses the words may cause, and may activate genes. I am sure you recognize that �may�s� and �might�s� are opinions. And there is no evidence of this data on the internet. May and might simply does not get it, especially in an article where you can hurt hundreds of people by getting the data wrong. Again she copies words and phrases well, but her data does not show up on the internet.
Gabriela Segura, MD: But that�s not all, folks. It gets worse! In fact, hypochlorous acid (MMS2) has the power to chlorinate the building blocks of DNA, breaking the DNA double helix apart and thus interfering with its vital biological functions [13]. By the way, the new airport security scanners can break apart our DNA�s double helix as well [14]. Do we see a pattern here?
Jim Humble responds: Sorry, Gabriela, but hypochlorous acid never clorinates, it is an oxidizer, not a chlorinator. She knows a lot of fancy words, but she does not know the technology science that goes with those words. Chlorination happens when chlorine combines with the item to be chlorinated. Oxidation is what hypochlorous acid does. Oxidation is when the chemical destroys the chemical it oxidizes. Chlorination is combination, and oxidation is destruction. Hypochlorous acid oxidizes (destroys) and cannot chlorinate. Thus, of course, her explanation is totally off base. She has lots of complex explanations but none of it is right. This is just plain chemistry that she doesn�t know. I know how that works. I write this whole paper teaching her chemistry, and then she takes what I write and works at it until she thinks she has proven me wrong, and then i am expected to write again and show her how she is again wrong. After a few times at this I have wound up teaching her the chemistry, but she will never admit being wrong. It wastes my time. This is the only time I will write showing her mistakes. All critics want to continue writing against what I say and I wouldn�t mind if they would use logic and truth, but they never do, they just continue in the same vein, putting lies in at any point that they wish. I won�t carry it further than this letter.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Some claim that hypochlorous acid is hazardous only to intrusive germs, but there are actually studies that have determined that the properties of hypochlorous acid that make it such a potent bug killer agent can damage our bodies by the same mechanism used to destroy the invading pathogenic bugs [15]. One such study could not have a more appropriate name: �Living with a killer: the effects of hypochlorous acid on mammalian cells [15].
Jim Humble responds: Again, the studies didn't prove anything. I hope it is obvious that when you say �may� and �might� you are only saying opinions. If i say that your car might get a flat tire on the way home, i am only giving an opinion.
Gabriela Segura, MD: It has been well documented that there are a variety of disorders tied to the deleterious effects of hypochlorous acid in our bodies including diabetes, obesity, depression, hypertension, gout, kidney failure, and autism, among other conditions [12]. This makes sense in view of our brief review of oxidation: wherever there is oxidative damage, there is disease. What is more, our brains have a high oxygen demand, and thus are particularly sensitive to oxidative damage. So it doesn�t come as a surprise that our mind is often the canary in the coal mine. We often notice our body�s first inflammatory effects through brain fog, memory problems, and insomnia. Hypochlorous acid has the potential to be extremely neurotoxic to our brains, where it literally oxidizes certain lipids and proteins, preventing them from performing their functions and contributing to neurodegenerative disorders like Parkinson�s disease, Alzheimer�s disease and Multiple Sclerosis
Jim Humble responds: Sorry, but that is all opinion and no collaborating evidence is available and I do not believe it. So I get to give my opinion once in a while where opinion seems to be the order of the day. This is all conjecture and obviously a desire to destroy a successful chemical that has already saved thousands of lives around the world. That could only be coming from the drug companies through Gabriela. Gabriela offers no proof or even references. She goes on and on with no collaborating evidence.
Gabriela Segura, MD: In addition, hypochlorous acid can be very dangerous in certain settings. Its strong oxidative power makes the chemical very dangerous, because it can become explosive when combined with certain substances. Adding acids to a hypochlorous acid solution will precipitate this process, making the mixture unstable, releasing chlorine gas, and potentially causing an explosive chemical reaction. The compound needs to be handled carefully because it can release dangerous chlorine gas if mixed with seemingly safe household products. Chlorine gas can cause considerable health problems or death, especially in poorly ventilated spaces, which is one reason why it is inadvisable to mix household chemicals like bleach at random.
Jim Humble responds: Yes, that�s true, but so what? Houses burn down every day which is oxidation. Shall we quit building houses or just quit living in them? This chemical is used in millions of swimming pools throughout the world. It is dumped in full strength. No one has been reported killed by it in dozens of years. Gabriela is using what she thinks is superior knowledge to make a chemical that is used throughout this world even by children dangerous.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Further complicating this tragedy, MMS is now being promoted with the use of DMSO. DMSO (Dimethylsulphoxide) is a solvent which enhances the availability and effectiveness of many drugs throughout our bodies, thus potentiating their effects. It has the capacity to distribute a drug deep into our bodies. The worrying thing is that DMSO also very easily crosses the blood-brain barrier. This property is exactly why DMSO is widely used as an effective transporter of certain substances into our brains that may not otherwise cross the mentioned barrier. Even though DMSO by itself is a powerful antioxidant, keep in mind that it has the ability to potentiate and carry a dangerous poison such as MMS1 and MMS2 into the brain. By now, I hope that it is clear why this is a very, very bad idea.
Jim Humble responds: Just the opposite, Gabriela. We have many letters saying their tumor of the brain is gone. So if you are going to give this article out, please include my comments. As she says, they have the right to know.
I have treated thousands of people total in Uganda, Kenya, Malawi, South Africa, Mexico, the Dominican Republic, and other places, and thousands more by sending people out or over the phone or by email. Many people, like Gabriela, claim that I am somehow egoistic and really want to hurt people. I am now in the city of Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, training people who come here from all over the world to use MMS. As this was written we have 425 ministers of health healing people free of charge in more than 70 different countries.
It is beyond me why these people who attempt to debunk MMS don�t just check out my claims. But none of them have. They go on and on spouting lies that they believe and are never willing to check a single thing I am doing. One would think, that if one is going to write an article that hurts a person�s reputation that he would take the time to check things out, but none have done it so far. They say, we did the research, but I don�t know what that is as their write up proves they don�t know the chemistry, and they have never checked a single claim of someone being cured by MMS.
Gabriela Segura, MD: Please give this article to any MMS consumer. They have the right to know what is going on within their bodies � and DNA � when they take this Trojan Horse!
Jim Humble responds: So let me give the reader one last chance to use their own logic in looking at MMS. MMS is chlorine dioxide. Instead of the approximate 22% strength of chlorine dioxide in the bottle, only three drops are used for the normal MMS standard dose. That three drops is then diluted 675 times making a solution of .016% instead of the 28% that Gabriela wants to talk about. No one in the world has ever taken a 28% dose of MMS that we know about, except one man who tried to commit suicide by taking 10 grams of sodium chlorite. However, he failed to die and completely recovered. There are plenty of medicines that allow the user to use an eye dropper to measure out their dose.
So now we know that the MMS user will be usng a very small weak solution. The strongest solution that anyone ever uses at this time is .018% and that is only for malaria. Now come on, look at some simple logic that Gabriela, an educated doctor, should be able to find out if she doesn�t already know. And that is this: The oxidative voltage of chlorine dioxide is plus .95 volts. And the oxidation voltage of most of the human body (official name is ORP or Oxidation Reduction Potential is plus .090 volts approximately. This is data that is only well known to chlorine dioxide chemists, but they know the data well. It must be used by chemical engineers using chlorine dioxide. Now listen carefully as Gabriela doesn�t seem to be able to comprehend the logic. I, however, am sure you will. Remember your high school science classes? You learned that like charges repel one another and unlike charges attract one another. So, here you have chlorine dioxide with plus .95 volts and the body chemistry with plus .090 volts. Do you see that? They are both positive. What that means is that they will repel one another and that means that they won�t touch one another and thus they will have no effect on one another. Do you see? Chlorine dioxide will run through the body for as long as it is in the body, but it will continue to repel body parts never touching them and thus it will never contact the body and thus will never do damage to the body. In the low concentration of MMS, it simply cannot affect the human body in any way. The only effect is the destruction of pathogens, heavy metal compounds, and poisons in the body that have negative charges. Gabriela cares nothing about truth or lies as she has continuously lied throughout this entire article.
I give you one other point of logic. The skin in the body is about 1/32 of an inch thick and so are the walls of the digestive tract. The skin in a pathogen is about 10,000 times thinner with about 10,000 times less strength than the skin in the body. The pathogen has a negtive charge. That means it will be attracted to the chlorine dioxide instead of repelled. And with a skin that is 10,000 times thinner than the wall of the intestines the chlorine dioxide can blow a hole in it literally in 1/10 second. The thicker walls of the intestines never even feel the chlorine dioxide, as the chlorine dioxide molecules are repelled from it. Well, I hope by now you have seen the poor logic and the harm that Gabriela is causing. She prevents those who believe her from being cured and thus they go on suffering. The paper that Gabriela has written has been passed around the internet by well meaning people also causing harm because one doctor is jealous. However a little jealousy never hurts in most cases, but when it prevents people from becoming well it is done by extremely irresponsible persons caring nothing about who they hurt but just wanting to stop someone they are jealous of. It is actually jealousy to the point of being criminal and I am actually sorry for Gabriela, but more sorry for those she hurts.
When one starts criticising something that can help people they should be very careful of their data. Gabriela is a doctor, or so she claims, and thus she should be very careful of her data because things she say can hurt people.
Letter to Gabriela from Jim Humble: Gabriela, I am just going to test your logic capabilities since your article keeps getting passed around on the internet. That's me, the guy that discovered MMS.
In your article you made some absolute statements so I decided to test your logic. The body uses oxygen to destroy pathogens in the body. I'm sure you have heard that. logic point number 1. Oxygen has a higher oxidation potential than MMS (chlorine dioxide). Logic 2. Oxygen does not destroy most of the useful bacteria in the body even though it is carried to areas where the useful bacteria lives. Logic 3. With a lower oxidation potential than oxygen, MMS cannot destroy more things than oxygen, it can only destroy less things. Logic 4. If oxygen cannot destroy the beneficial bacteria and since MMS has less oxidation strength than oxygen, plus .95 volts as opposed to oxygen's 1.3 volts (approximately), it is only logical that MMS will not be able to destroy the beneficial bacteria either.
Next point of logic: The outer surface of a bacteria is 10,000 times thinner than the walls of the intestines and other walls of other organs of the body. You don't need a lot of clinical trials to determine these points of logic, all you need is the ability to think. I must assume that your knowledge of solutions would tell you that a solution running through the body that is .016% chlorine dioxide when it enters the body is a fairly dilute solution. I must then assume that your logic would tell you that it might be possible for such a dilute solution to destroy part of the outer wall of a bacteria, which is less than 1/10,000 of an inch thick. And at the same time this dilute solution would have no effect on a, for instance, intestinal wall that is 10,000 times thicker than the outer wall of the bacteria. In addition, the scientific fact is that the pathogen has a negative ORP (I assume you know what that is, being a doctor and all) and that the negative ORP of the pathogen will cause it to be attracted to the MMS which is positive.
Final point: Gabriela, I am sure, if you will remember, that your high school science class showed you that like charges repel and unlike charges attract. So chlorine dioxide has a positive .95 volt charge. And most of the cells of all the various tissues and organs of the body also have a positive charge of about .050 volts or so. As a doctor you would know that. So remember the science class. Like charges repel and thus the body parts are going to repel the chlorine dioxide and thus the chlorine dioxide in theory will not touch the body parts as it will be repelled and thus there will be no damage to the body. And guess what, out of 10 million users, no damage reports so far.
Now Gabriela, your article, with very little logical data and no understanding of chemistry, has done much damage. Hundreds if not thousands of people who could have gotten well have not done so as they have believed you. I make no money from the sale of MMS. People like you hate to see someone who is working for mankind and is not receiving and does not expect money for his work. But I will tell you this Gabriela, I am compensated ten thousand times as much as you, a person who operates on people for money, when you already know that with MMS those operations are not necessary.
Jim Humble
The following list of references were listed by Gabriela as proof of her article against MMS that is given above. Most of them prove my contentions so far as I can see.
[1] Sydney Macdonald Baker, Detoxification and Healing. New York: McGraw Hill, 2004. [2] Snake Oil Humbles Nexus Conference, Sott.net [3] Safety data for chlorine dioxide, physchem.ox.ac.uk [4] Sodium chlorite entry on Haz-Map.nlm.nih.gov [5] Chlorine Dioxide Material Safety Data Sheet from Halox Technologies, Inc. (PDF) [6] G�ng�r N, Knaapen AM, Munnia A, Peluso M, Haenen GR, Chiu RK, Godschalk RW, van Schooten FJ. Genotoxic effects of neutrophils and hypochlorous acid. Mutagenesis, Volume 25, Issue 2, 2010, Pages 149-154. [7] Gomez-Mejiba SE, Zhai Z, Gimenez MS, Ashby MT, Chilakapati J, Kitchin K, Mason RP, Ramirez DC. Myeloperoxidase-induced genomic DNA-centered radicals. The Journal of Biological Chemistry, Volume 285, No. 26, 2010, Pages 20062 - 20071. [8] Burt Berkson, M.D., PhD. The Alpha Lipoic Acid Breakthrough, New York: Three Rivers Press, 1998. [9] Ximenes VF, Padovan CZ, Carvalho DA, Fernandes JR. Oxidation of melatonin by taurine chloramine. Journal of Pineal Research, 2010, May 27. [10] Kawai Y, Matsui Y, Kondo H, Morinaga H, Uchida K, Miyoshi N, Nakamura Y, Osawa T. Galloylated catechins as potent inhibitors of hypochlorous acid-induced DNA damage. Chemical Research in Toxicology. Volume 21, Issue 7, 2008, Pages 1317-1495. [11] Schoonbroodt S, Legrand-Poels S, Best-Belpomme M, Piette J. Activation of the NF-kappaB transcription factor in a T-lymphocytic cell line by hypochlorous acid. The Biochemical Journal. Volume 321, 1997 Pages 777-785. [12] Pennathur S., Maitra D., Byun J., Sliskovic I., Abdulhamid I., Saed G. M., Diamond M.P. and Abu-Soud H. M. Potent antioxidative activity of lycopene: A potential role in scavenging hypochlorous acid, Free Radical Biology and Medicine, Volume 49, Issue 2, 2010, Pages 205-213. [13] Pr�tz, W. A. Hypochlorous acid interactions with thiols, nucleotides, DNA and other biological substrates. Archives of Biochemistry and Biophysics, Volume 332, No. 1, 1996, Pages 110-120. [14] How Terahertz Waves Tear Apart DNA, Sott.net [15] Pullar J.M., Vissers M.C., Winterbourn C.C. Living with a killer: the effects of hypochlorous acid on mammalian cells. IUBMB Life, Volume 50, 2000, Pages 259-266. [16] Nusshold C., Kollroser M., K�feler H., Rechberger G., Reicher H., �llen A., Bernhart E., Waltl S., Kratzer I., Hermetter A., Hackl H., Trajanoski Z., Hrzenjak A., Malle E. and Sattler W. Hypochlorite modification of sphingomyelin generates chlorinated lipid species that induce apoptosis and proteome alterations in dopaminergic PC12 neurons in vitro, Free Radical Biology and Medicine, Volume 48, Issue 12, 2010, Pages 1588-1600. [17] What is Hypochlorous Acid?, wiseGEEK.com [18] A New Way to Administer MMS, mms-articles.com [19] Dr. Morton Walker. DMSO Nature's Healer. New York: Avery, 1993.
The following articles show that MMS Chlorine Dioxide is selective in what it oxidizes:
Chlorine dioxide as an oxidizer As an oxidizer chlorine dioxide is very selective. It has this ability due to unique one-electron exchange mechanisms. Chlorine dioxide attacks the electron-rich centers of organic molecules. One electron is transferred and chlorine dioxide is reduced to chlorite (ClO2- ). http://www2.dupont.com/Chlorine_Dioxide/en_US/assets/downloads/TasteandOdorControl.pdf
Easy Solution Chlorine dioxide�s selective chemistry allows it to instantaneously react with oxidizable material to kill algae and bacteria that produce bad taste and odors in water. Chlorine dioxide is also excellent at destroying odor-causing biofilms that are not removed by chlorine treatment, and attach to piping and basins.
Figure 2: chlorine dioxide is more selective as an oxidizer than chlorine. While dosing the same concentrations, the residual concentration of chlorine dioxide is much higher with heavy pollution than the residual concentration of chlorine. By comparing the oxidation strength and oxidation capacity of different disinfectants, one can conclude that chlorine dioxide is effective at low concentrations. Chlorine dioxide is not as reactive as ozone or chlorine and it only reacts with sulphuric substances, amines and some other reactive organic substances. In comparison to chlorine and ozone, less chlorine dioxide is required to obtain an active residual disinfectant. It can also be used when a large amount of organic matter is present.
Chlorine dioxide is a powerful, selective biocide. First discovered in 1811, its anti-microbial properties have been known since about 1900. Chlorine dioxide has been used in the United States to disinfect public drinking water for more than 60 years. It also is used for a variety of sterilization, disinfection and decontamination purposes in the food, beverage and medical device industries.
Chlorine dioxide has attractive human- and ecological-toxicity profiles. Exposure does not pose chronic adverse health effects (e.g., cancer) nor does chlorine dioxide persist in the environment.
Chlorine dioxide is a relatively small, volatile and highly energetic molecule. Chlorine dioxide is almost never used commercially as a gas at high concentrations because of its instability; rather, it is generated at the point of use.
Chlorine dioxide gas has an intense greenish yellow color with a distinctive odor similar to that of chlorine. Chlorine dioxide is highly soluble in water but, unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide does not react with water. It exists in aqueous solution as a dissolved gas.
Chlorine dioxide functions as a highly selective oxidant owing to unique, one-electron transfer mechanisms, wherein it attacks electron-rich centers in organic molecules and, in the process, is reduced to chlorite ion.
Because chlorine dioxide oxidizes but does not chlorinate, chlorinated organic by-products (e.g., THM, HAA, dioxins, furans) typically are not produced. Neither does chlorine dioxide produce appreciable amounts of aldehydes, ketones, ketoacids nor other problematic compounds associated with oxidation of organic matter by other, less selective means.
High-purity chlorine dioxide is less destructive/corrosive than chlorine to most materials, including stainless steel. In the presence of UV light, chlorine dioxide rapidly decomposes to form chlorine, oxygen and a variety of transient intermediate oxychlorine compounds which may be highly corrosive.
Chlorine dioxide's unique properties permit it to be more effective than current oxidizing and non-oxidizing biocide technologies. Among its outstanding characteristics: (a) it remains a dissolved gas in water, thereby maintaining its biocidal activity under varied operating conditions, (b) it is effective over a wide pH range (4-10), remaining effective even where there are incoming stock pH swings, (c) it reacts selectively with organic compounds and does not form chlorinated organics (chloroform, bromoform, dioxins or trihalomethanes), all of which are coming under increasing regulatory pressure, (d) it reacts almost instantaneously to quickly provide effective biocidal control or remove undesirable contaminants, (e) at recommended use levels it does not create toxic by-products harmful to wildlife or the environment.
Posted by chaps (Member # 25286) on :
Another lengthy response to the Segura article by Andreas Kalcker:
My name is Andreas Ludwig Kalcker and after reading this article i had no choice than to answer....i am researching 2 years from now on ClO2 related health issues on scientific bases, and definitively this Article is equal to: "The earth is Flat syndrome......"
Enjoy.
Dr. Segura quote: "Many people do not know that MMS is essentially bleach"
Andreas Kalcker: Is a wrong Statement and lack of chemical knowlege! It is used to potabilize drinking water without cancerous trihalomethanes for more than 100 years now: scholar.lib.vt.edu/theses/available/etd-08142001-093734/unrestricted/thesis.pdf
Dr. Segura quote: "In truth, the potential long-term and dangerous side effects of regular MMS use should give anyone the shivers"
Andreas Kalcker: What long term side effects? ClO2 disintegrates when oxidizing to oxygen and salt !!!! nothing else.
Dr. Segura quote: "Before we continue, an important lesson on oxidation and free radicals is needed,Oxygen is an essential element that supports life, but in the wrong place or at the wrong time, oxygen can wreak much havoc on our cells, causing cancer, contributing to cardiovascular disease, degenerative diseases, and aging through a process called oxidation.You have seen the effects of oxidation whenever you have observed an apple turn brown and go bad after being exposed to air, or when you see the flame of a candle."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again !!!:
The free radicals theory is a postulate from Denham Harman in 1958 !!! The oxidative capacity of oxygen is 1,3V and the mitocondria can handle this very good, but Ozone has an oxidative potential of 2,07V and is too strong and would do harm. Clo2 has only 0.97V and Cannot harm our cells due to too low electron potential. Oxidative stress is proven to elongate lifespan ! Free radicals = electric potential, the voltage counts! 12V is not the same as 220V The free-radical theory of aging (FRTA) states that organisms age because cells accumulate free radical damage over time. A free radical is any atom or molecule that has a single unpaired electron in an outer shell. While a few free radicals such as melanin are not chemically reactive, most biologically-relevant free radicals are highly reactive. For most biological structures, free radical damage is closely associated with oxidative damage.
Dr. Segura quote: "Oxidation can even cause debilitating changes to your DNA."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again: The scientific proof :
Glucose Restriction Extends Caenorhabditis elogans Life Span, by Inducing Mitochondrial Respiration and Increasing Oxidative Stress Tim J. Schulz 1, 2, Kim Zarse 1, Anja Voigt 1, 2, Nadine Urban 1, Marc Birringer 1 and Michael Ristow 1, 2,
1. Department of Human Nutrition, Institute of Nutrition, University of Jena, D-07743 Jena, Germany 2. German Institute of Human Nutrition Potsdam-Rehbr�cke, D-14558 Nuthetal, Germany
Corresponding author
� Summary � Increasing cellular glucose uptake is a fundamental concept in treatment of type 2 diabetes, whereas nutritive calorie restriction increases life expectancy. We show here that increased glucose availability decreasesCaenorhabditis eleganslife span, while impaired glucose metabolism extends life expectancy by inducing mitochondrial respiration. The histone deacetylase Sir2.1 is found here to be dispensable for this phenotype, whereas disruption ofaak-2, a homolog of AMP-dependent kinase (AMPK), abolishes extension of life span due to impaired glycolysis. Reduced glucose availability promotes formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS), induces catalase activity, and increases oxidative stress resistance and survival rates, altogether providing direct evidence for a hitherto hypothetical concept named mitochondrial hormesis or �mitohormesis.� Accordingly, treatment of nematodes with different antioxidants and vitamins prevents extension of life span. In summary, these data indicate that glucose restriction promotes mitochondrial metabolism, causing increased ROS formation and cumulating in hormetic extension of life span, questioning current treatments of type 2 diabetes as well as the widespread use of antioxidant supplements.
Dr. Segura quote: "By now, you should understand why anti-oxidants are so important,...This is the reason why we are fond of so many antioxidants such as vitamin C, E, carotenoids, resveratrol, taurine, coenzyme Q10, and melatonin, to name but a few."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong again: The scientific proof: Almost 70 clinical trials with more than 230,000 participants have shattered the supposed benefits of antioxidant supplements. A review published in the journal 'The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)' reveals that not only beneficial, but that beta-caroteneand vitamins A and E slightly increase the risk of mortality." Our findings contradict the claim that antioxidants improve health. Given that between 10% and 20% of the adult population in North America and Europe consume the products evaluated, the public health consequences may be substantial ", say the authors, from the Hospital of Copenhagen (Denmark).
More links (spanish): doctorperu.com/articulo-510-consumir-suplementos-antioxidantes-resulta-nocivo-para-la-salud.php?id=29546
Dr. Segura quote: "The toxic effects of chlorine dioxide are associated with those of sodium chlorite - a very strong oxidant that at a dose of 10-15 grams is considered to be lethal.."
Andreas Kalcker: 10-15 grams of a lightweight gas is really a lot!!!! 70 grams of tablesalt are deadly too !!! the scientific DATA:
Controlled clinical evaluations of chlorine dioxide, chlorite and chlorate in man. Lubbers JR, Chauan S, Bianchine JR.
To assess the relative safety of chronically administered chlorine water disinfectants in man, a controlled study was undertaken. The clinical evaluation was conducted in the three phases common to investigational drug studies. Phase I, a rising dose tolerance investigation, examined the acute effects of progressively increasing single doses of chlorine disinfectants to normal healthy adult male volunteers. Phase II considered the impact on normal subjects of daily ingestion of the disinfectants at a concentration of 5 mg/l. for twelve consecutive weeks. Persons with a low level of glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase may be expected to be especially susceptible to oxidative stress; therefore, in Phase III, chlorite at a concentration of 5 mg/l. was administered daily for twelve consecutive weeks to a small group of potentially at-risk glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase-deficient subjects. Physiological impact was assessed by evaluation of a battery of qualitative and quantitative tests. The three phases of this controlled double-blind clinical evaluation of chlorine dioxide and its potential metabolites in human male volunteer subjects were completed uneventfully. There were no obvious undesirable clinical sequellae noted by any of the participating subjects or by the observing medical team. In several cases, statistically significant trends in certain biochemical or physiological parameters were associated with treatment; however, none of these trends was judged to have physiological consequence. One cannot rule out the possibility that, over a longer treatment period, these trends might indeed achieve proportions of clinical importance. However, by the absence of detrimental physiological responses within the limits of the study, the relative safety of oral ingestion of chlorine dioxide and its metabolites, chlorite and chlorate, was demonstrated.
Dr. Segura quote: "The popularity of MMS and its fervent, almost religious marketing involved the claim of curing malaria in tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. Sounds very noble indeed, but this is only natural as MMS� sodium chlorite is well known to cause hemolysis in red blood cells - meaning that red blood cells are ruptured and destroyed. It is actually by killing red blood cells that the malarial parasite is killed since it invades red blood cells."
Andreas Kalcker: Wrong as usual, the scientific Data:
Chlorine dioxide and hemodialysis. Smith RP, Willhite CC. Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology, Dartmouth Medical School, Hanover, New Hampshire 03756.
Abstract In the United States chlorination of potable water supplies has been the standard method of disinfection for about 75 years. In recent times concern has been raised about the propensity of chlorination to introduce potentially carcinogenic trihalomethanes (THM) such as chloroform into finished water. The levels of THM introduced depend on many factors including the quality of the raw water. Numerous community water treatment facilities are experiencing difficulty in meeting current U.S. Environmental Protection Agency standards, and it is likely that the permissible levels may be lowered in the future. An alternative to chlorination which does not generate THM during disinfection is chlorine dioxide, but there are concerns about the acute and chronic toxicity of ClO2 and its disinfection by-products, chlorite and chlorate. Deleterious effects of moderately high levels of these oxychlorines have been demonstrated experimentally on red blood cells, thyroid function, and development in laboratory animals. Adverse effects in controlled prospective studies in humans and in actual use situations in community water supplies have as yet failed to reveal clear evidence of adverse health effects. Among groups who may be at special risk from this suggested alternative are patients who must undergo chronic extracorporeal hemodialysis. The special needs, precautions, and experience to date in regard to finished water are reviewed. Again, very limited human experience has failed to reveal adverse health effects. Further study, caution, and extreme vigilance are indicated, but dialysis patients in carefully controlled facilities may be at no greater risk than the general population.
Dr. Segura quote: "FDA advises consumers to stop using MMS immediately and throw it away."
Andreas Kalcker: Microcyn Technology has a FDA aprooved CLO2 product: oculusis.com/us/technology/ - Basically the same product as MMS ......
Dr. Segura quote: "In short, MMS should NEVER be a health treatment, alternative or otherwise!"
Andreas Kalcker: THIS IS TRUE.....SINCE YOU CAN NOT PATEND A MINERAL SALT ( NACLO2) OR CITRIC ACID YOU Can MAKE NO MONEY AS A BIG-PHARMA-PRODUCT AND WORSE OF ALL....IT CAN CAUSE " SPONTANEOUS REMISSIONS" OF MANY EVEN LIFE-THREATENING DISEASES!
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
Thanks for all the info, folks. I wish they looked into GMOs, chemicals in the environment and everyday products such as cosmetics, laundry products, plastics, mercury fillings, etc. & chemtrails as thoroughly as MMS...
We are each unique & require differing treatments. Sometimes, our treatments can change from day to day. There's alot of conflicting info probably about everything. Who knows? Maybe smoking tobacco can prevent lungworm...? Maybe there is some benefit to bloodletting with leeches? I don't think we can rule anything out per se.
Some things are definitely toxic, though. We just have to be cautious. Fire and water are elements that can be beneficial but they can also kill.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sure leeches help in medicine. When there is microsurgery such as reattaching a finger or an ear, a leech is often used to thin the blood and keep circulation going. Not blood letting as in the ancient times, but leeches are useful.
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
hiker, did you mean to add your post to the Apheresis thread I started?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
No, I was just replying to Sparkle's thoughts on this thread, but I can delete my post if it doesn't fit here.
Here is what Sparkle said.
"We are each unique & require differing treatments. Sometimes, our treatments can change from day to day. There's alot of conflicting info probably about everything. Who knows? Maybe smoking tobacco can prevent lungworm...? Maybe there is some benefit to bloodletting with leeches? I don't think we can rule anything out per se."
Hiker
Posted by GiGi (Member # 259) on :
I am not ruling anything out - I assumed that you had followed the apheresis idea discussed around the same time of your post, and that of course reminds one of bloodletting, etc. etc. even though in this method nothing is lost but the stuff we should not have in our body to begin with. We keep our blood and nothing is added or replaced.
They use different filters for different toxins and debris. The questionnaire I have filled out and sent to Germany is quite extensive because they want to catch all possible past exposures.
Was the little old lady next door spraying her flower beds, etc.? (not in these words, of course). And the list that I saw of what comes out of people is amazing. We are one toxic bunch.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
My question would be how often one would have to have the spheresis performed? We are around so many toxins daily. My neighbors just sprayed for dandelions (something I refuse to do).
I sure do understand we need to get rid of current toxins, but it seems like we will just load up again.
Hiker, so sad about your neighbors SPRAYING chemicals that we will eventually consume! Smart people are eating the chemical-free dandelions, like my Grandma did for many years.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
You can find basically the same items at this site. They are not longer called MMS1 and MMS2, but are now WPS1 and WPS2. Since Jim Humble claims that MMS1 and MMS2 help cure diseases companies changed the name and just call them water purification drops. They, in effect, distance themselves from Jim Humble and are not prosecuted for violating the law.
I am not saying the drops do not work--just explaining why Amazon does not sell them under that name anynmore.
Gigi, the dandelion has so much value. The Russians used them to make tread for their tanks in WW11. Certainly the dandelion has many positive health benefits, but too many chemicals around here. I live in farm country where too many farmers still believe in sprays.
Hiker53
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi,
can I take DE as a binder while on MMS?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I am not Gigi, but after scanning her posts on MMS she did take DE while using it. I think she took it before meals.
I am not on MMS, but I find DE very helpful. I usually take mine before bedtime.
Hiker53
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
GiGi -- Would you mind explaining a conservative way to start the MMS enema protocol? I see notes from a conference where Dr. K. spoke, and the notes indicate taking 8-20 drops reacted in 1/2 liter - 1 liter (i.e. 2 drops per 100 ml), and then hold for 5 minutes.
I'm not sure what 20 drops reacted means, per se. I saw one instruction online talking about mixing 1 drop MMS per 5 drops citric acid solution. That equates to perhaps 3 drops MMS and 15 drops citric acid, which would be 18 drops of reacted solution. Would this be the equivalent to 18 drops reacted, or would 18 drops reacted require 18 drops of actual MMS and then equivalently more citric acid solution?
Hopefully this question makes sense. Do you feel diluting it 2 drops per 100 ml is helpful. Seems like this would then require using an enema setup similar to like when people do coffee enemas, where substantial water is infused (such as 2 cups water at a time)? I have such a setup, no problem, but just wondering if this is what is intended, versus one of those small little enemas about the size of a finger that just squeezes in perhaps an ounce of fluid at a time...
Whether you're able to respond to this, GiGi, as always, thanks for the info you bring here!
Posted by Tammy N. (Member # 26835) on :
When I saw Dr. K last weekend, he said to start with 1 drop and gradually ramp up from there. (1 drop MMS to 1 drop activator).
I use 4 cups of water when doing my coffee enemas. I just did my first MMS enema last week.....I just did 1 activated drop to the 4 cups of filtered water. Next time I will try 3 drops.
I'm not sure how much water is suppose to be used.... I guess you don't want it to dilute too much to lose effect. I'll try to find out if I can get better info.
[ 05-20-2013, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by MichaelTampa (Member # 24868) on :
So you are using the same number of drops activator as you are MMS (1 drop MMS, 1 drop activator; then when you go to 3 drops, you'll use 3 drops MMS and 3 drops activator)? Are you using citric acid solution as activator?
Thanks for your help Tammy.
I miss GiGi as well.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I wonder why Dr. K suggests to use 1 drop of MMS with the citric acid...? Jim H. suggests to use 1 drop of MMS to 5 drops of activator. It's strong stuff - you probably want to start with 1 drop MMS & work it up for an enema but I never tried it for that purpose.
[ 05-20-2013, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Lymetoo ]
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Gigi used the HCL and not the citric acid. The mixture with the citric acid smells and not everybody wants the smell.
Tammy thanks so much for helping out as much as you can.
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I took the MMS for about a week. I think it was causing an increase in pain. I think oxidation has benefits in killing pathogens but I think it may have been causing me inflammation.
Maybe we can pulse it? or try one week every month or 2?
I read so many varied responses about it. Some "natural" practitioners were against it but so many people responded to their articles with very positive reports for healing illness. There must be something to it but I would still be careful with it.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
sparkle,
I think everyone is different. Seems like some can tolerate MMS everyday in varying amounts and some cannot tolerate it at all.
It really irriates my esophagus even in small amounts.
Pulsing my work for some
Hiker53
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
Pretty rough stuff. I prefer to protect my poor stomach.
Posted by been (Member # 23127) on :
I'm starting MMS enemas tomorrow (full moon) I will keep everyone posted on my progress.
I was told to do 10 drops/500ml as per Dr. K practitioner. Seems high based on some responses here. Then I'm supposed to work up to 20 drops/1000ml of water.
I'm supposed to do this daily I'm currently on round 2 of Dr. K's parasite protocol.
Posted by landerss (Member # 17732) on :
been, keep us posted. I might be seeing the same practitioner as you, as I'm doing a similar protocol. I'm up to 13 drops MMS daily, and just started the enemas.
Posted by Kristen J. (Member # 24566) on :
Just had gallbladder surgery and had horrible pain in liver and migraines from all the anesthesia and narcotics. Ran it by my doctor and she said it was ok to get back on MMS. It started reducing pain after few doses and by next day all was gone. Still taking it and improving...
Posted by LAXlover (Member # 25518) on :
Didn't have time to go through this entire thread, but have you all seen the Red Cross/MMS video 12/12/2013? Study done in Africa and cured all patients of malaria.
What do you make of this video? I told my LLMD about it at my last appt. I want her opinion also.
-LAXlover
Posted by LAXlover (Member # 25518) on :
ops, above date should be 12/12/2012.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
LAXlover--thanks for posting the video.
I don't think there is any doubt that MMS can kill germs/pathogens. I think the queestion is what happens to the body when you take it for a period of weeks.
I would love to see a study on the long term effects of MMS--when one uses it for a longer period of time than 1 or 2 days.
I wish someone unaquainted with Jim Humble would run an objective study.
Hiker53
Posted by emla999/Lyme (Member # 12606) on :
The Red Cross posted a comment about this MMS "trial" on their website.
The Red Cross stated that at NO time were they ever involved in �clinical trials� related to treating malaria with the Master Mineral Solution (MMS) aka Miracle Mineral Supplement (MMS).
Here is the link to the Red Cross website where you can read that statement.
I just started MMS today with the baby bottle method. So far so good. I have been researching it and watching some amazing videos about how it is curing autism.
I am very hopeful about this for my kids, two of whom I suspect have behavior symptoms from parasites. It is interesting that Kerri Rivera (who is leading the charge with 85 complete autism recoveries to date) states in her forum that PANDAS is caused mostly by worms. That has been my conclusion with my PANDAS son who is recovering with parasite treatment. His tourettes would worsen shortly after the parasite herbal cleanse and then we would get improvements later. I am hopeful that the MMS/parasite protocol will get rid of the parasites once and for all.
tickbattler
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
It's interesting. It tastes disgusting, though. I was taking it every hour (for 8 hours) for about a week. I had to take a break from it. It started grossing me out. I think it was beneficial in some respects - like killing pathogens we may not know that we have.
Does anyone know when or how we are supposed to eat - before or after the dosing. How about foods that may have anti-oxidants - like an apple or grapefruit?
I guess we could eat food with anti-oxidants in the remaining time after taking the 8 doses.
Does anyone know about or experienced pathogens moving into the legs or knees from using MMS? I think GiGi mentioned something about metals moving into her feet. I started having alot of pain in my calf & knee.
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
It does not surprise me that the supposed Red Cross video is a fake perpetrated by Jim Humble. I have no trust in the man. He even believes in alchemy--that nonprecious metals can be turned into gold.
MMS may kill pathogens, but until someone not associated with Jim Humble does a truly fair clinical trial and also looks into the longer terms effects, I can see why a lot of people would not take MMS.
Ingest at your own risk as with any drug--antibiotic, herb etc.
I sincerely appreciate anyone who takes the time to post their responses to MMS--be it positive or negative.
Hiker53
[ 05-27-2013, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sparkle,
I think the 8 hour protocol is very difficult for several reasons. One if the taste. Using the HCl activator makes it taste a lot better than using citric acid.
Secondly, what do you eat during that 8 hours that does not have antioxidants. I know that I take zinc sometimes to help with detox and, of course, I eat fruits and vegetables.
Wonder if doing a 4-6 hour protocol would be more realistic for those of us who do like to eat fruits and vegetables and also work.
Hiker53
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
quote:Originally posted by emla999/Lyme: The Red Cross posted a comment about this MMS "trial" on their website.
The Red Cross stated that at NO time were they ever involved in �clinical trials� related to treating malaria with the Master Mineral Solution (MMS) aka Miracle Mineral Supplement (MMS).
Here is the link to the Red Cross website where you can read that statement.
By Jaime Holguin In part one of her report on the American Red Cross, CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson looks at how the charity is responding to its biggest criminal scandal.
The American Red Cross may be expert at responding to public disasters, but for years it has failed to get a grip on financial disasters at its local chapters.
There's the fundraiser in Louisiana caught padding her own bank account with donations, the manager in Pennsylvania who embezzled to support her crack cocaine habit and the executive in Maryland who forged signatures on purchase orders meant for disaster victims, to name a few.
But the biggest criminal scandal inside the Red Cross surfaced in New Jersey last year. And though it's been kept off the front pages, it ranks among the biggest charity frauds ever.
At the center of the scandal is Joseph Lecowitch, chief executive of the Hudson County Chapter, and his bookkeeper Catalina Escoto.
Escoto allegedly gave herself at least $75,000 in bonuses. All told, prosecutors say the duo stole well over $1 million in Red Cross funds, squandering it on gambling and each other. Escoto pleaded not guilty. Lecowitch died after he was indicted.
"The bookkeeping methods of Mr. Lecowitch and Ms. Escoto leave a lot to be desired," says prosecutor Michael D'Andrea.
The New Jersey fiasco, in which donations and government grants were all stolen, happened right under the nose of Red Cross headquarters. Critics say the reason the Red Cross has so little control over its chapters is that the chapters are pulling the strings: they collect most of the donations, dominate the national board and resist tighter controls by headquarters.
In 1999, Dr. Bernadine Healy was chosen to head the organization. Said to be stunned by what she saw as a cavalier attitude in New Jersey, she wrote a scathing confidential memo to the Red Cross audit committee.
"Many of the controls presumed by you and senior management to be in place are not there," she wrote in a memo dated April 3, 2001. "A routine audit of the Hudson County Chapter � identified financial mismanagement of a potentially criminal nature."
She called reviews by external auditor KPMG "inadequate" because chapters often don't give details of their finances to headquarters.
And in the most telling statement of all: "We cannot assure the accuracy of ... (financial statements) provided to the IRS ... This appears to be a major business and legal risk and would impact many of KPMG's certifications."
KPMG wouldn't comment, but the Red Cross now says the criticism from its then president was way off the mark.
Jack Campbell, the chief financial officer for the Red Cross, denies there have been any problems and says he is satisfied with the financial accountability of chapters over the past three years.
"I think we have an extremely solid system of accountability for our chapters," he says. "Both in terms of financial reporting, internal audits and local guidance and governance."
Regarding the fraud in Hudson Country that allegedly went undetected for years, Campbell says "no control system is perfect."
Dr. Healy, clearly the odd man out in wanting stronger chapter accountability, left the Red Cross last fall. A CBS News contributor, she wouldn't be interviewed for this report. But not long after she raised questions about the chapters' actions, her grave concerns were confirmed; surprisingly by the Red Cross' own auditors.
A report obtained by CBS News highlights some of the trends at local chapters:
"Payroll � inappropriate or incorrect" "Financial reports ... are not prepared ... or are not accurate" "Blank checks are accessible ..." "National disaster contributions are not remitted to national headquarters ..."
Weeks later, the terrorists struck, and the Red Cross rushed special investigative auditors to see what the chapters were doing with the millions in donations pouring in.
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We just have to think these things through with caution. I don't know enough about chemistry to really study it but so many people have had good responses to MMS judging from comments to articles. Some people got ill from it but that can be the case with anything.
Posted by Lymetoo (Member # 743) on :
hiker- yes, I agree. I don't think you have to do it every hour for 8 hours for 3 weeks straight - just observed via my dowsing. I think you can adapt it.
I just have the citric acid. I'll try the HCl activator soon. How about lemon juice?
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
Sparkle,
Lemon juice will activate the MMS and it is cheap. Don't know if the vit c in the lemon will counteract any effects as it would be an antioxidant.
I have a spot of ringworm on my skin. I am trying the MMS on it in a dilute amount. After my past experience of ingesting MMS I am not ready to go there again.
Besides, I don't test well energetically for ingesting it even in tiny amounts at this time. I'll let people know how it works on my skin.
Hiker53
[ 05-27-2013, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: hiker53 ]
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I have been on it for 3 days so far and did 5 drops today separated into 8 doses. No adverse reactions so far and I am feeling good and my gut is the best it has been in months. (Our well water has been contaminated with numerous water borne parasites and we have all been very sick from it....we are camping on our house right now....showering at the YMCA!).
tickbattler
Posted by sparkle7 (Member # 10397) on :
I got my MMS dose up to 24 drops in 8 doses per day for about a week. After that, I got kind of sick of it. I felt like I was having increased inflammation so I stopped. It may have been good. I did feel some improvements. I'm just doing it on & off now as per dowsing.
I was having knee & calf pain which is not the norm for me. It make have been moving toxins into my legs?
Thanks hiker! I think you cam mix it with coconut oil & apply it that way.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Great video....for those who want to listen...my life is much like this woman...up late every night researching....and she finally found what may be the cure for her autistic son! For those non-believers, please watch the entire thing BEFORE you judge.
Are you suppose to keep the mixture in a non-plastic jar?
And what does DMSO add to the protocol, if anything?
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I think you are supposed to use a glass jar if possible but a plastic lid is OK. I don't know much about the DMSO. I haven't done the autism/parasite protocol yet; just ramping up the oral.
If you google kerri rivera, you can get the site that discusses the protocol in detail.
tickbattler
Posted by hiker53 (Member # 6046) on :
I tried MMS on a skin ringworm infection (fungal) and it did not work. So, I rotated antifungal cream types and in between used tea tree oil and then rubbed lyme juice on it. That made the fungal infection go away very quickly.
I will continue this for several more weeks as skin fungus can be persistent. But several weeks of MMS in varying amounts just made it more inflamed.
Topical MMS did not work
Hiker53
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
Hiker- Sorry it didn't work for your ringworm! From what I have read, it does not work on everything. I think in the parasite protocol, they also give vermox and albenza with it so that would indicate it might not kill the worms that those drugs go after. I don't know for sure though.
Did you take it orally too? Perhaps the infection is deeper so that topical treatment with MMS may not work? I think tea tree is often great for fungal infections. It helped me with athletes foot.
tickbattler
Posted by Wayne (Member # 42755) on :
GiGi,
I just started reading this thread today, and want to thank you for starting this thread. I am very grateful for yours and everybody else's information and perspectives on MMS.
I've recently started taking MMS again, after recently discovering Kerri Rivera's work and informative videos. I'm currently taking 1/6 drop every hour for six hours a day (total 1 drop). I got into the habit of putting it into my apple cider vinegar drink (2 oz APC to 1 qt water, add 1 tsp stevia).
I was wondering if APC could possibly neutralize the MMS. Any thoughts? --- Thanks again.
Best, Wayne
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
no apple cider vinegar is fine. It was initially used as an activating agent before they pushed real hard on citric acid.
There is a great testimonial on youtube of a woman who is well after using mms. She went to the bulgaria mms clinic... but her treatment took 19 months
[ 11-16-2013, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Carmen ]
Posted by Wayne (Member # 42755) on :
Hi Carmen, thanks much for your reply. --- Would you happen to have a link readily available to the YouTube video you mentioned? --- Thanks...
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
MMS for Lyme
I have been a great proponent for MMS for 6 years now. I fully support it. There is a learning curve so please read all that you can on this site: www.genesis2church.org they also have lyme testimonials there.
There have been a number of predicessors to mms which in essence were sodium chlorite. I know a doctor who used it with good results for Lyme. That product is no longer made.
Please don’t listen to the fear mongers on this topic. They don’t know what they are talking about. Please understand that the Red Cross is lying about the test done on MMS for Malaria. They are under strong arms and fianacial blackmail by organizations that do not want any cure for malaria other than a pharmaceutical drug. Many who were involved in that trial have come forward and said that it did happen. You can read the story on the genesis2church website.
I have seen mms cure skin cancer, irritable bowel, cysts, a number of topical skin infections and eczema, as well as two variants of CMV causing chronic fatigue of over 1 year duration... that cure happened in one week of mms use. Also do a search for “Adam Abraham MMS’ on youtube and watch his videos about Jim Humble and MMS.
[ 11-16-2013, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Carmen ]
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
Carmen,
thanks for posting this again. You might save some more lives. I was on Lymenet for many years before I read Gigi's post. Gigi's post changed my life.
I am no longer here but from time to time I read my pms and I answer them.
Posted by Wayne (Member # 42755) on :
Hi again Carmen,
I'm glad to hear how familiar you are with MMS. I recently watched a video where Kerri Rivera talks about how MMS breaks down heavy metals and as I remember, essentially making them harmless. She says this is a better way to get rid of them than trying to chelate them.
I have no chemistry background, so I have no idea whether this is true or not. Have you heard the same thing, and do you believe, and/or have any experience to believe it's true?
Kerri also made the statement, "MMS changes the "mitochondrial membrane electrical potential" --- Leading to increased power in every cell in the body including immune system cells."
In the past, I've experienced increased energy from using MMS. I don't know anything about membrane electrical potential, but on the surface, it would seem like a more plausible explanation for my almost immediate increased energy than the killing of pathogens, etc.
I've long felt a core part of my own health was somehow "electrical". The above description (mitochondrial membrane electrical potential) seems to fit in with my long held belief.
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wayne: Hi again Carmen, I have no chemistry background, so I have no idea whether this is true or not. Have you heard the same thing, and do you believe, and/or have any experience to believe it's true?
Kerri also made the statement, "MMS changes the "mitochondrial membrane electrical potential" --- Leading to increased power in every cell in the body including immune system cells."
this has always been said about mms, its potential to increase energy, and its often the first thing that people report with its use, but I have seen no studies regarding electircal potentials.
I am in the process of monitoring my therapy with Dark Field Live Blood Analysis. In this blood study the effects of heavy metal toxicity can be seen up close and personal under the microscope. Heavy metals are generally picked up in the liver by the RBCs. It impairs the function and health of the RBC. With chelation, the signs of heavy metal toxicity are suppose to dissappear from the RBCs over time... and hence your liver, by association too.
I have not started a chelation process yet. I plan to discuss it with my doc on Nov. 27 and develop a protocol. Then in time I will anticipate to see changes in my blood. We shall see what we shall see.
quote:Originally posted by Wayne: In the past, I've experienced increased energy from using MMS. I don't know anything about membrane electrical potential, but on the surface, it would seem like a more plausible explanation for my almost immediate increased energy than the killing of pathogens, etc.
I've long felt a core part of my own health was somehow "electrical". The above description (mitochondrial membrane electrical potential) seems to fit in with my long held belief.
A core part of everyones health is electrical. This is why it is so essential to take sufficient minerals, especially trace minerals too, in the form of concentrated sea water mineral products or in sea salt. Ive started the sea salt c protocol. Ive always taken trace minerals but I'm amping up. I figure with the detox that they are getting spent.
I also find it much easier to drink more water when there is salt in it. It more like it slips right in instead of joggling around in my stomach for an hour.
When I started using MMS 6 years ago I couldn't believe how much my energy increased! I was stunned to realize that I had felt so bad and was unaware of it. MMS has also been my ultimate treatment for a condition I call illeitis, not a doctors diagnosis, but mine, based on symptoms. I had previously treated with Greatfruit seed extract and then went on to Ozone by funneling, but MMS works the best. I only need treatment for it every few years and treatment is just for a few days of only 3 drops 3xday.
When I use to use MMS a lot I would get mental symptoms of fuzziness and 'feeling outside of myself' and some balance issues.. I found it interesting that these were the same sensations that I got on my current Lyme protocol when I was herxing. Im not currently using mms for Lyme but I may as time goes by.
When Jim Humble says to take 6 drops of mms a day to keep all illness away (this is for a generally healthy person) Im more inclined to believe him now more than ever.
We may never know just how mms works as no funded studies are ever going to happen unless some great humanitarian comes along with a few extra million. But one thing they have figured out is that there is a strong connection with MMS and HCL inside of the body, in the blood. Im not familiar enough with this to go into detail but... in the old days, pre-antibiotic drugs, if a doctor was about to loose a patient to infection HCL injected by IV would save the day... very small dosages mind you. This may correlate with the observation that low stomach acid is associated with so many diseases of microbial orgin.
Posted by karawhite (Member # 41374) on :
sorry if this was asked already , but can you do ABX and MMS at the same time?
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
Well, you can. There is no contraindication but my question would be "WHY?" MMS has not been noted to interfere with any drug therapy by its users. My guess it that you would get well much quicker and in time perhaps you would see that you dont really need the antibiotics.
If you have not been herxing on your antibiotics then decided to add MMS you may herx again.People will herx not only from die off but from heavy metals on the move. Be sure to take chlorella and pectin.
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
The referense to mitochondria has my attention
Can the mms protocol be written with few words in a list with times and dosage
Posted by Leeintn (Member # 25999) on :
Does any one know if MMS can be effective for neuro-lyme?
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
MMS has proved to be capable of entering into some very deep tissues on a variety of diseases. Please go to www.genesis2churh.org and find their lyme testimonials in the right hand column.
MS and ALS is considered a neuro disease and MMS has been very helpful to some people who have had this and tried MMS
I have seen one testimonial where it didnt' work on someone with 'neuro lyme' after what seemed like a good try, but its so hard to say from just one case. Who knows what other factors may have stood in his way from healing.
Lyme puts out a neuro toxin. If your methylation pathway is not good such toxins will not clear well.. so repair of that must be going on at the same time... don't you think?
Im not really clear what neuro lyme is anyway. Ive had what I call neuro symptoms, twitches, shocks, memory loss, shooting and electrical pains in what feels like the nerves, balance disruption. Is that neuro lyme?
Posted by lpkayak (Member # 5230) on :
i think neuro lyme means Bb are in nerves-and gives sx related to nerves-not sure.
i still would like to see dosage and timing of mms that works for some. also best brands. i am limited in being able to read testimonials and figure out what is real and what isnt or even what is being said
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
four posts up is a pretty good MMS testimonial that is a video.
Best brands? people really don't discuss brands much. Sodium chlorite is sodium chlorite. When I first purchased I purchased off of ebay. Then I purchased from global light..
MMS is marketed as water purification drops.
I guess global light is the company selling the longest and has worked hard to keep it on the market.
Dosage is very easy. But you have to pay attention to take it every hour at least 8 hours a day.
If you have trouble remembering as I have in taking pills I set a timer that I carry with me.
If your thinking is too foggy have someone learn the process of mixing it up for the day to help you.
You can mix a batch for the whole day then take one ounce every hour. I have little one ounce cups that helps me
Progress on the mental level is so fast for some people that I think most would not need help for very long.
I will put the typical protocol in the next post.
Posted by Carmen (Member # 42391) on :
Global light only seems to sell bulk MMS now. here is a link for other companies that sell MMS listed by country. It will all be listed as water purficiation drops.
they have worked up new protocols since I last considered doing MMS, making it easier to take. More on that tomorrow. I am going to be interested in using HCL to activate it. It should taste better than citric acid.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I was just checking in here and glad Wayne brought up Gigi's post. My entire family of 5 is on Kerri Rivera's autism MMS (CD) protocol and it has changed our lives.
Kerri's baby bottle protocol is the most gentle because you start with 1 drop in 8 oz of water and then take an ounce every hour. That way you start with 1/8 of a drop. If you don't herx too bad, then you can bump up to 2 drops in 8 oz of water, still taking only 1 ounce at a time from this bottle each hour.
There is a facebook group for adults using Kerri's protocol called CD Health. You can join and learn from others on the protocol. If you have a child on the protocol, you can join the CD Autism facebook group. Each day I read about autistic children that are doing things they never have done in the past. Today I read about a 17 year old autistic child who never spoke and is now asking for a snack. It is wonderful to see these children healing. 110 autistic kids have now healed on this protocol. They are in mainstream classes without IEP's and playing sports and having playdates for the first time in their lives.
If an autistic child can heal on MMS, I feel pretty confident that it will help most others.
Kerri's book is called "Healing the Symptoms Known as Autism" and you can get it on Amazon.com.
Posted by tick battler (Member # 21113) on :
I buy mine from WPS4sale.com. You can get the kit with HCL and sodium chlorite. Kerri has found the HCL to be better than the citric acid activator.
tickbattler
Posted by Wayne (Member # 42755) on :
Thanks for checking in Tick Battler. I found your story very interesting. And thanks Carmen for your informative posts.
I mentioned earlier I've done MMS in the past, but never stayed with it long-term for varying reasons. If anybody is interested, I've posted some of my experiences on another message board at the following link:
Prepare it in the baby bottle method. For instance, if you can only tolerate 1/2 drop per hour activate 4 drops and put into 8 ounces distilled water in a GLASS baby bottle that holds 8 ounces. Take one ounce per hour.
After you have succeded in the full protocol 1000 you can move up to protocol 2000.
If you herx to strongly skip a dose and take half of what you took previously until the herxs become managable.
Take binders like chlorella, pectin, charcoal inbetween MMS dosages.
Take vitamin C and other strong antioxidants one hour after your last dose of MMS for the day at night.
Eating fruits and veggies are not strong enough to deactivate MMS.
If you have memory and thought processing issues have someone help you learn the protocols and to help you do it for a while. This need for help should pass in a few weeks, depending on how sick you are. Dont try to do it alone if you mental capabilities are not up to it.
Posted by karenl (Member # 17753) on :
for protocol 2000 users:
MMS2 is very strong, you will probably need 4 weeks to be on 1/2 capsule. It make hypochlorus acid. This is used in hospitals - pubmed article.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
and now he's telling people, "Gee, that MMS and the Salt/C Protocol are pretty good after all."![[Wink]](wink.gif)
without thinking too much about it. sadly it has not been a game changer for me. the only thing i didnt try yet is to push through the KPU protocol. ![[shake]](graemlins/shake.gif)