I just found out that I have heavy metals and am getting ready to start chelation. Is there anyone who has had chelation that is willing to share how it affected their persistent Lyme infection? I have heard both sides of the coin - that you must get your heavy metals chelated in order to resolve the Lyme and that the chelation makes your Lyme symptoms much worse. Very confused right now....
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Google Dr. Klinghardt and heavy metals.
Sooner or later, if you don't improve from your treatments, you will have to look into chelation...
My last protocol was the KPU, meaning, adding zinc and some vitamins to the diet.
Now I'm on a Tesla wand, trying to get rid of some more.
I do not think that people who chelate metals will have a spectacular change in their condition fast.
It took years, decades to get slowly intoxicated, symptoms just came slow in, and starting chelation will not change the whole picture in a minute.
Besides, even when you decide you need to do it, there are so many protocols, and I swear, from personal experience, all of them work to an extent, but none will pull out all the metals from all cells.
it's more like a life style, a continuous work on cleansing, more than an isolated treatment. At least, the more I did it, the more I realized what I did before was incomplete. Or that somehow, these heavy metals continue to come in, and I need constant detox.
Now with the high frequencies, I feel I plateaued again, in a good sense, for the moment. Less toxins are being poured off, and I do feel better. But I don't know if I feel better because I have less toxins, or for another reason...
One thing is certain: no detox (in general, heavy metals is just one item), no thorough healing. You may get rid of lyme, but other things will jump in, if you don't get rid of toxins, in a long term base. That is my feeling.
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
Thanks, Brussels! I appreciate your input. I start chelation today, so the timing was excellent.
Posted by shoeless joe (Member # 45835) on :
pnggirl,may I ask how you found out you have heavy metals?
I just went to a neurologist and she is testing me for heavy metals.
Did you do a 24 hour urine collection?
Thank you
Posted by Catgirl (Member # 31149) on :
I am not sure chelation made my lyme worse. It feels the same either way (long term thing). Do you still have amalgams? Amalgams and chelation made me worse.
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
Shoeless Joe, I did a 6 hr urine test, which I understand is a bit controversial. The reason for the issue came up is that I have developed a type of essential tremor in my head. The doctor said this can be caused by heavy metals. Catgirl, i have had all of my amalgam fillings removed. Only have a partial bridge still in place. All new fillings are Mercury free.
Posted by shoeless joe (Member # 45835) on :
Thank you, I believe mine is a 24 hour test. It will be interesting to find out the results.
I was exposed to lead when I was younger and daily to chainsaw exhaust.
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
I have no idea where I picked up mine. I have some guesses but nothing concrete.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
I decided not to do chelation. this is because I am very sensative and I also kept hearing my gut say "don't do chelation" so I like to listen to my gut when I can.
I have started genetic therapy for my messed up genes and after we straighter out my methylation cycle we are going to do the metals. the gene dr says metals take long to leave and it will take about 1.5 yrs to rid them.
good luck. I know metals are causing lots of issues with me and why I don't feel more better than I should right now after all my tick disease treatments
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
Mobilization of heavy metals can cause an explosion of pathogenic growth in the gut. So yes, listen to your gut. Its not always wise to do chelation with binders.
Fermented foods can be of aid. The good bacteria you eat can also absorb some of the metals and transport them out in a more safe manner.
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
I had symptom relief from heavy metal chelation. I pulsed the chelation and always felt better when we were chelating rather than when we weren't.
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
S13, do you have any suggestions for,dealing with the pathogenic growth in the gut during chelation? Or is it your opinion that chelation is just not a good idea?
Posted by shoeless joe (Member # 45835) on :
six goofy may I ask what you used to chelate?
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
Sixgoodykids, I appreciate you sharing your positive experience. Were you able to completely get rid of the metals?
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
Hmm, good question. I don't remember if I was retested or not. I'm not toxic in heavy metals anymore. My guess would be that we always have some heavy metals in our system.
I'm healthy today though, that's the bottom line.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
yes, everyone gets heavy metals, but some people, like me, can't get rid of them. that is where my genetics come into play. I have the messed up genes and I cannot expel metals on my own. lucky me!
Posted by S13 (Member # 42830) on :
quote:Originally posted by pnggirl: S13, do you have any suggestions for,dealing with the pathogenic growth in the gut during chelation? Or is it your opinion that chelation is just not a good idea?
If you have severe gut dysbiosis then any kind of chelation with a binder is probably a bad idea imo. The writer of the GAPS diet (N. Campbell-McBride) is against any form of chelation.
You know, everyone is capable of mobilizing and transporting heavy metals inside the body via the glutathione system (look up presentations from Chris Shade if you want to know more about this). Some people do it a bit more slowely, but the mechanism is there for anyone who is alive. The kidney route can become blocked by inflammation, so some people are left with enterohepatic circulation.
This is where probiotic and fermented foods can be of help. Probiotic prevent reabsorption (enterohepatic circulation) from the gut, and prevent overgrowth of pathogenic flora. But it is a slower route of course. Slow but safe.
If you dont have kidney blockage and no gut dysbiosis, then use a chelator (DMPS/DMSA etc), its the fastest way. If you have kidney blockage, but no gut dysbiosis, use a binder like IMD / metalsweep which works from the intestine only. Otherwise i think you are stuck with the slower probiotic/fermented food road.
Avoiding more metal exposure is also key of course. You dont want to add in more junk that taxes the already stressed system.
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
I did the 6 hour challenge test via urine as well as blood testing. I was very high in aluminum, cadmium and gadolinium from all my MRI's. Mercury and lead were also high but not as severe as the others.
I had all of my mercury fillings removed over the last few years by a dentist trained by IOAMT. Then, I tried IV chelation and did not feel comfortable continuing with it. It was too strong for me - making me herx more and intensifying my worst symptoms of head buzzing, tinnitus and brain fog.
pnggirl, I also seem to have an internal head tremor as one of my symptoms. That has gotten slightly better but I can still feel it at times.
My LLND recommended I try EDTA suppositories instead of the IV chelation. It is much gentler. I take them 3 nights on and 4 nights off per week. I have been doing this for about 6 months now. I feel a little better but not sure if it is the chelation or other treatment I am doing that is working.
I have not had a repeat heavy metals test and would be interested in having one soon to see if there is any improvement.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
During chelation, you will feel crap.
Every time I had a good protocol / product that did chelate well, I had candida re-activated.
That happened so many times, that today, I'm MORE than convinced about the direct link between CANDIDA and HEAVY METALS: they walk hand in hand.
As every single lyme patient will have problems with candida (with or WITHOUT ABX), I also feel that heavy metals is a problem for borrelia. Dr. K has been insisting on that point for decades: lyme and heavy metals go hand in hand.
Not cleaning heavy metals when the body is weak is a good tip. During chelation, you will probably feel crap, that is why.
Not cleaning heavy metals long term is a bad tip though. They have to come out if you wish to be in good health one day. That is probably the main reason why we fell sick at first.
Bad detox ability, too many emotional shocks make your body retain metals (or diminish detox abilities)... People who detox well usually do not get lyme. If they get, they get over it faster than people that detox badly.
Posted by fitnesskelly (Member # 45806) on :
I went through IV chelation for high lead and oral chelation for mercury (after amalgam removal).
I probably had 15 - 20 IV treatments. It didn't help me feel any better. I usually felt worse for about a day after chelation. I also had one bad experience in which I almost passed out - I thought it was the pain from the needle, but the doc's staff told me that sometimes people have that reaction to the chelator. I had a few more after that, but that reaction pretty much scared me away from it.
Also, no improvement from amalgam removal and mercury chelation, but I only had 2 amalgams, so maybe I wasn't that toxic to begin with.
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
It's not enough to just chelate the metals (mobilze them) you must use binders and other supplements to help move them out of your body otherwise you will feel worse (toxic) and many people have methylation issues which makes it harder to clear the metals out of the body once they are mobilized from deep tissues.
Anyone who attempts to do heavy metal removal should do lots of research and be sure to be under the guidance of someone who has lots of experience in working with this issue. There are many different schools of thought about how to approach this subject and which chelating agent to use.
Many people do end up feeling worse because they don't have the proper guidance while doing because they have have essentially mobilized the metals and toxins out of deep tissues, including the brain and now their body doesn't have the help and tools to eliminate them from the body.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
ABXnomore, I almost always did that with dr. K's practioners. Despite all the BINDERS (beside chelators), I still felt crap.
I guess, it is very personal and it depends on the amount of metals being chelated, and on the body's ability to detox.
I am both a bad chelator, and had 13 (or 16, can't remember anymore) amalgams. I started having amalgams at the age of 7.
It is a DANGEROUS business, chelation. That is for sure. Only when you do that, you realize how TOXIC and dangerous heavy metals can be. Once you feel them on the move.
I never felt anything improving from a day to another. I don't think it is possible.
It takes months if not years for the immune system to recover, I heard dr. K. speaking about that.
It took me a year to be convinced to do any type of chelation seriously. But as I didn't heal from lyme, well, I went into the whole business of chelation AND mouth treatment (cavitations and all).
Well, lyme went dormant after 4 years of treatment. I wonder if I hadn't done that, if I would still be sick with lyme.
Dr. K. started talking about chelation MUCH BEFORE Burrascano and most lyme doctors. You can go back and read. He was a pioneer. Today, most doctors talk about that as though it has always been.
He's got so much experience, and even though, I felt very bad with both killing (herxes) and chelation. So I've been combining all sorts of treatments from practioners that had DECADES of experience with chelation. I still suffered!!
I agree that chelation is dangerous and should be done only with guidance. Of course, after years on the business, I sort of do by myself now. Mostly. But I wouldn't recommend beginners to do a stand-alone treatment either!
Posted by Lymieloo (Member # 45753) on :
quote:Originally posted by LisaK: yes, everyone gets heavy metals, but some people, like me, can't get rid of them. that is where my genetics come into play. I have the messed up genes and I cannot expel metals on my own. lucky me!
Lisa, do you mind me asking....were you tested for a genetic disorder then? The reason I'm asking is because, before I began to suspect I had Lyme, I wondered if I had mitochondrial disease. I found that there are many sub-categories of m.d., and so many of the sx mentioned seemed to fit.
Also my d.i.l. found out she has the mthfr gene mutation, and apparently it's pretty common. It's been making me think a lot about how these, and no doubt other, genetic issues coincide with Lyme.
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
Issues with genetic defects in methylation play a big role in lyme disease, especially in those who have trouble making headway.
If you do a search on methylation or 23&me testing you will find several lengthy threads on the topic.
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
Thank you all for the great responses. I did a little research on chelation and came away more confused than ever because of the wide variety of opinions. There is nothing like first hand experiences to help clarify the issues.
A few questions...
What do all of you recommend to be the best binding agents to accompany chelation?
Has anyone tried using the infrared sauna to help detox of metals? If so, did it help?
Posted by dbpei (Member # 33574) on :
I use chlorella followed by cilantro once a day and I also take takesumi supreme, which is a bamboo charcoal product. I eat a high fiber diet with ground flax seeds and lots of greens/salads to keep things moving.
Many doctors recommend infrared sauna to help with detoxing (and chelation). But I have not managed to try this yet. I do feel better after taking a warm bath in epsom salts.
I purchased the ionic foot bath machine, but have not really noticed a difference after using, even though the water gets pretty gross!
Posted by pnggirl (Member # 5391) on :
I have a portable infrared sauna that I have begun to use again. I wonders if that would be beneficial, dpbei. Thanks for the tip. I will add the chlorella and cilantro and will check into the takesumi supreme especially as I was wondering about adding charcoal.
Posted by Abxnomore (Member # 18936) on :
If you have a infrared sauna, you should most definitely use it. It's great for detoxing.