This is topic Reintroducing gluten and milk products? in forum Medical Questions at LymeNet Flash.


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Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
 
So, I'm making progress (yay). Still a long road ahead of me (sniff). Has anyone tried reintroducing gluten and milk products (specifically casine) *back* into their diet as they began to see progress? If so, what were the results?
 
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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I would never dream of going back to gluten, ever, even if I were not celiac.

Have you had a GENETIC work up for celiac with a reliable gene testing lab?

Please rethink this even if you don't have genetic celiac. There are other very serious conditions that gluten can cause even for someone not celiac. Gluten can cause multiple issues for those who are not yet in a good solid remission.

And it can cause damage to the brain up to six months after one exposure.

Anything you want can be found in a gluten free way. Tell me what dish or certain food you want, and I'll bet I have a good GF way to achieve that.

Dairy, however, each time I try I get immediate sinus blockage and phlegm.

The problem is that, for most, dairy causes phlegm and that can impede health for anyone. Germs find safe harbor in phlegm.
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Posted by WPinVA (Member # 33581) on :
 
Yes, I do eat some dairy off and on. Mostly yogurt and cheese. Hardly any milk. Also some ice cream (yes I know that's not good).

When I'm feeling ok, I can handle it. But when I get knocked down, I need to take it out again. I also take it out automatically anytime I get a cold because it increases mucous production.

On the plus side, eating the yogurt does make yeast control easier.

I don't think I'll try gluten anytime soon.
 
Posted by MannaMe (Member # 33330) on :
 
My husband uses goats milk with no problems.

He has been drinking kefir made with cows milk. He does eat cows milk yogurt also. Sometimes it seems cows milk is okay, then other times he feels better with out it.

We tried some Jersey cows milk instead of Holstein cow milk. Wish we could get Jersey milk regularly. The farmer we know doesn't sell raw milk. He gave us 2 quarts to try.

On gluten: he can eat some occasionally without a problem. But too much, too often and he feels like his digestive system 'sludges up'. So he stays pretty much gluten free.
 
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
I never felt a difference on or off caseine. I added it back after six months to test it.

I do not do well on gluten.

Both are inflammatory, so I'd stay off them if you're still pretty sick.
 
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
 
I do fine with dairy and gluten. I healed and didn't do a special diet except for avoiding much sugar and fried food.

Everyone is different. My body actually thrives on dairy. when I tried the anti-inflammatory diet, I was allergic to a lot of substitutes for dairy and gluten-free.

[ 04-03-2016, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Judie ]
 
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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Judie brings up a good point about alternate "milks" - be aware that so many are just full of additives and in cartons that are lined with Teflon-like coating - and that seeps into the liquid.

None of the commercial other milks worked for me. However, it's easy to make my own walnut / pecan milk. The softer nuts will work in most good blenders and do not require pre-soaking. Harder ones like almonds require soaking and a high powered blender like VitaMix or BlendTec.

As for the occasional GF pasta, TINKYADA makes a very nice organic brown rice pasta. Beware of some GF pasta made with corn, though, as corn can cause inflammation, especially in the ears.
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Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
Take goat milk products or sheep milk products. Much better and less allergenic than any cow milk product.

We take both (also cow milk) but we do do not have lyme anymore.

I was fed up of dieting during lyme treatment and I did take cow milk products (not pure milk though), like yoghurt and cheese.

And during lyme, I avoided wheat in all forms, as it tested bad for me. I took though spelt, that is MUCH tastier than wheat. I love spelt. It does have gluten though.

During lyme, I ate less spelt than today (no more lyme). I do feel better without gluten, but my life would be harder to live without spelt (pastas, pastries, bread,... they are fantastic, much better than wheat.

I find that avoiding sugar and alcohol made me feel much better during lyme too. Anything feeding candida will feed borrelia, in my feeling.
 
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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As Brussels says, some do much better with sheep or goat milk / cheeses. Just be sure they can graze on chemical free pastures, have the very best attention (cleaning underneath and such) during milking time, etc. If you have a local producer, call for a visit. Many really love to see their customers.

Some considerations for bovine dairy products.

My top concern is the condition and practices of how the milk is obtained - is it clean and are the cows properly cleaned underneath with poop managed correctly - seriously, some (not all) places the cows are pooping while being milked and there is no way to really keep that separate . . . try to go see or get a video of the milking procedures from the diaries where you would obtain your milk.

other considerations:

http://tinyurl.com/obow8h5

Got Milk? Might Not Be Doing You Much Good

- by Aaron E. Carroll - The New York Times - Nov. 17, 2014


http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/07/got-milk-you-dont-need-it/?hp

Got Milk? You Don't Need It

By MARK BITTMAN - The New York Times, July 7, 2012

and follow-up to that:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/24/more-on-milk/?ref=opinion?hp

July 24, 2012

More on Milk

By MARK BITTMAN -The New York Times

Sidebar: When a lifetime of suffering, medical visits and prescription drugs can be resolved with a not especially challenging dietary change, a certain amount of retroactive frustration seems justifiable.

Not surprisingly, experiences like mine with dairy, outlined in my column of two weeks ago, are more common than unusual, at least according to the roughly 1,300 comments and e-mails we received since then.

In them, people outlined their experiences with dairy and health problems as varied as heartburn, migraines, irritable bowel syndrome, colitis, eczema, acne, hives, asthma (``When I gave up dairy, my asthma went away completely''),

- full article at link above.
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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There are some very good articles here about gluten considerations, too. "Wheat, the Modern Poison" is one of those in this set:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=029690;p=0

Excitotoxins; MSG; Aspartame; & "Natural" Flavors (that are not likely natural at all).

GMO foods that destroy the GI Tract; Gluten; Dairy.
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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http://www.tinkyada.com/ProP1.htm

TINKYADA Organic Brown Rice Pasta (Canada)

Many varieties. Certified Gluten Free facility.
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Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
 
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Regular Quinoa, Black Quinoa, Red Quinoa

Millet

Amaranth

Buckwheat groats

Brown, Black, Red, Wild Rice [and each of these has many varieties as well]

Chinese Black Forbidden Rice is so full of nutrients, antioxidants and excellent on the glycemic index. And it really helps me maintain a good steady blood glucose when enjoyed with a balanced meal.


and there may be a few other naturally GF seeds / grain "like" items that I can't think of right now.

Oats - IF from a certified GF facility.
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Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
 
Thanks for the responses. Why is it that gluten and milk are inflammatory even if you don't have a gluten or casein intolerance?

It is debatable about whether I have a gluten and casein intolerance. When I had a colonoscopy and endoscopy several years ago (I was eating gluten and casein), I did not test positive on the blood or biopsy test.

However, it showed I had an autoimmune response to both when I sent a stool sample to Entero Labs, and a nutritionist said I had either celiacs or an intolerance. All other docs have basically scoffed at that. Nonetheless, I went gf and cf. I dunno what to believe.

Due to some meds I'm on, I have an increased appetite and crave things with gluten and casein.

I had a colonoscopy and endoscopy the other day and have been pretty strict gf and cf. However, a few days before it, I ate gluten and casein for a few days. The doc took a biopsy to a check for celiacs. He said it may show up if I have celiacs since I had gluten for a few days. I dunno how reliable that info is?? What do you'll think? It seems to me you would need more of a build up.
 
Posted by Judie (Member # 38323) on :
 
I do well with cashew milk. It's the only milk alternative that doesn't make me ill. I do okay with regular milk too.

My body does well with yogurt, kefir and cheese. It really depends on what agrees with your body.

What works for one person doesn't work for another.

Beans and soy are very inflammatory for me and when I look at the anti-inflammatory diets, it says to have 1-2 servings per day. I also do terrible with seafood.

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/ART02995/Dr-Weil-Anti-Inflammatory-Food-Pyramid.html
 
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
You know, after years following this forum, I think everyone who went wheat free, sugar free, alcohol free said they felt better.

I think these 3 things are sort of devil for lyme, somehow.

Every time I got lyme again, I felt tired after wheat, alcohol and sugar, so I stopped them altogether.

Today I take all of these things again and feel very good on certain beers, certain wines, and sugar is not a problem if coming at least with some nutrients (like in jams, or fruits).

But wheat, nope. Wheat feels like very hard to be digested, compared with spelt. I'd rather eat those tasteless gluten free things than take wheat.

I do energy testing for food, for many years. Wheat tests good for NO ONE. It's like white sugar: it tests good for no one.

If you see how much gluten modern wheat has (it's about 1/3 of the dough), you will understand why it is so hard to digest. Gluten is glue-like, has no nutritional function... Try other grains, rice, oat, spelt and see?

during lyme, wheat takes all my energy away. Like alcohol (wine, beer etc). The precious energy that we need for healing. It is not worth, in my opinion.

There is also buckwheat that is delicious in my opinion (totally gluten free).
 
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
 
Great feedback, everyone. Thank you. I can do gf, casein free, and alcohol free. I don't think I have the willpower to do sugar free, to be honest.

I just hate the taste of gf and cf stuff, even after years of eating it. Oh well, maybe I will be able to eat these things if I get well.
 
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
 
My rule of thumb is: everything you cannot drop, it means you are addicted to it.

If you are addicted, it means, the thing controls your brain. Not the opposite.

It means, in the end, the thing is harming you.

But that is just a rule of thumb. I know sugar is extremely addictive, and so are carbs and alcohol.

Being able to let go everything, because there are alternatives, and yummy alternatives, gave me a degree of freedom I wouldn't imagine before.

Freedom and the feeling that I am controlling what I want to eat, not the food controlling me.

With that sort of control, I could take all those awful herbs, bitter stuff, everything, in amazing amounts, daily, for months, years.

Then finally, be lyme free. It sort of required a discipline of a zen warrior! But it paid back.

And certainly, many things, you may eat without controlling, if you get healthy again.

I do take alcohol from times to times, I do eat an apple cake, chocolate, ice cream from times to times. But I can stop anytime, if needed. I have total control on that, and when I notice I'm losing control, I stop the thing again, just to check!! [Big Grin]

I don't do that to suffer. I do that because that sort of attitude helped me out of lyme. Without absolute discipline, I wouldn't have made it. I don't think so.

And that sort of freedom I told above, you can only get when you know you are the brain of your stomach, not the opposite.
 
Posted by me (Member # 45475) on :
 
Thanks so much, Brussels.
 
Posted by sixgoofykids (Member # 11141) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by me:
Thanks for the responses. Why is it that gluten and milk are inflammatory even if you don't have a gluten or casein intolerance?


http://www.arthritis.org/living-with-arthritis/arthritis-diet/foods-to-avoid-limit/food-ingredients-and-inflammation-8.php

Gluten and caseine are on a lot of lists of inflammatory foods.
 


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