I wanted to know whether any of you or any one you know got completely cured lyme,bart and babs with out using abx? Just using homeopathy and herbs will cure Lyme, babs and bart with out relapses?
Will the herbs and homeopathy treatment take longer to cure than using abx?
Any info on this is helpful..
The reason I was asking is still having tummy issues. went to GI and took some meds but pain is not completely gone. GI doc did upper endoscopy everything came out normal.
During the tests found out I have kidney stones for that I am seeing urologist. Doc ordered Xrays and CT scan..This will take a couple of weeks.
With all these I was trying to see other options..I see every one talk about detox is the main key..
will detox only help after the lyme bacteria is killed using abx, herbs etc or usual detox also flushes out lyme bacteria from our body?
Any info on these is appreciated.
Thanks and Regards,
Posted by bcb1200 (Member # 25745) on :
There are plenty. Entire practitioners who are well known, and world famous, rarely use ABX.
Like Dr. K in Seattle, Dr. C in PA, etc.
Here is a lady that got well using Wahl Paleo Diet, and Buhner Herbs. She was near death.
I used abx for almost two years and was not getting well past a certain point. I was not functional with the abx and spent most of the day in bed or on the couch.
I went to Germany and did photon treatment, then continued photon treatment at home. In addition I treated parasites, heavy metals, mold, and other issues.
My gut is my weak spot and wa the first place the disease showed with me. I have a family history of gut issues. I still watch my gut with diet and fermented food, but I haven't had any Lyme, bartonella, or babesia problems since 2009.
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
BioPhoton Treatment with Dr. W -- Full Sample Chapter from book: Insights in Lyme Disease Treatment, by Connie Strasheim
Chapter 6 Bionic / Photon Therapy for Lyme Disease -
Posted by Keebler (Member # 12673) on :
- RIFE has helped many achieve remission. Not necessarily rife alone but, for many, it has been a major key. Since lyme is usually never alone, most deal with multiple infections and treatment adjustments.
I do know of one woman who was very ill with lyme who used just rife along with good food & wise health habits - and she has been well now for years. She attributes an EMEM 5 machine with giving her life back.
When considering herbal / nutritional / adjunct methods, because lyme is so very complex & unique, as are possible coinfections:
if at all possible - because each person & each case is different - it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL ND (lyme literate naturopathic doctor) (or similar) who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present, and has completed the ILADS Physician Training Program (see: www.ilads.org )
so they really know all they can about the science of lyme . . . how lyme (& other TBD) act and what we can do about that in various ways. Proper ASSESSMENT of not just lyme but coinfectoins is vital. Someone trained by ILADS is best to assess.
Many LL NDs incorporate antibiotics (depending upon the licensing laws in their state). Some LLMDs and LL NDs have good working relationships.
When possible, it's great to have both a LLMD and LL ND and even better when they have a long-standing professional relationship.
For those considering complementary support methods / or other avenues entirely:
Herbal Safety considerations & reference books; etc.
BOOKS - Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
knowing which methods offer assertive & direct impact, which are only support and which are both. And when to use what, how to combine, & when to step back.
You can compare and contrast many approaches with links to articles, books, methods . . .
Particularly, see the books by BUHNER & also by Zhang.
Homeopathy, alone, IMO, is not adequate. There is a good book that details the success of one professional in this method - however - she also incorporate other methods, as is the wise approach whichever path is chosen.
A proper ILADS educated LL ND should know the full range. -
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I agree with all posters above.
There are way many ways of controlling lyme disease, gaining back your life without need of chemical drugs.
It may be more difficult at the beginning, because most alternative approaches aim to enforce your body and immunity, not exactly only on killing (except for stuff like Rife...).
The gut is already a mess with borrelia. Adding drugs is just a too high burden to pay, in my opinion.
Drugs also charge the kidneys, liver and lymph, as you have to deal with the toxicity. And also the gut.
Besides, candida is an extremely stubborn infection.
Specially if you want to get rid of lyme for the next tick bites, or infections (sexual trasnmission?, mosquitoes bites?, who knows...).
The only long lasting way to keep lyme free, if you live in tick land, is to build your immunity back, in my opinion. It takes some work, some time, change of habits...
My suggestion is to change things one by one, attack stuff one by one. Not a fast change of the whole treatment, dropping all drugs at once.
I would do step by step, so that you can come back and try different ways, in case one way goes wrong.
Many people do alternative treatments, with success!
Look at this short text about lyme treatement, at Paracelsius Clinic in Switerland. It does not say exactly what they do, but they do receive many Americans who underwent months, years of antibiotics, without much improvement.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
A completely new approach to Lyme disease
We see so many Lyme disease patients because they feel they have nowhere else to turn.
These patients mostly present as one of two types:
The first type has been told they have advanced Lyme disease, and they come to us after years of treatment, usually regimens of intense antibiotics, without any lasting improvement – in many cases their symptoms have just gone from bad to worse.
Most come with neurological symptoms, and some even arrive in wheelchairs.
The second type has been told that their mysterious symptoms today are explained by an undetected Lyme infection years ago, and that if they had only been treated then with antibiotics they would never have their problems today.
But treatment today yields no benefit.
Unfortunately for both types, the only treatment offered by conventional medicine is antibiotics, lots and lots of them, sometimes delivered in massive doses via intravenous ports.
The truth is, this treatment is doomed to failure from the start, and will only worsen the patient's symptoms over time.
How can this be? Because the "Lyme bacteria", Borrelia, is not the cause of the diagnosis of "Lyme disease" – it is only a coincidental infection, which can be detected with a lab test.
But this lab test, if positive, doesn't correlate to the expression of the disease, which has totally different causes!
The perspective of biological medicine is so different that it shocks many of our Lyme patients.
Let's begin by noting that 90% of the forest workers in Switzerland test positive for Lyme disease.
Logging is a major industry here and it involves hard physical work.
Why do these men show no symptoms of Lyme disease, and continue to enjoy robust good health?
We tell all our patients: the fact that you are positive for Lyme does not explain your condition.
At Paracelsus we frankly don't view Lyme as a distinct disease.
Instead, it is a syndrome of symptoms commonly associated with poor health, especially of the immune system.
The test for Lyme disease only shows whether a patient was ever exposed to Lyme, which for a healthy person is just another minor infection.
While a Lyme exposure may have added to the burden on the body, so may have other infectious agents.
These infections are opportunistic, preying on the weak. Rather than focus on strengthening the body, as we do in biological medicine, conventional treatment adds to the problem.
Massive doses of antibiotics compromise the immune system, and toxic bacteria then flourish, overwhelming neurological and organ function and eventually debilitating the patient.
And that is usually when they come to us.
Our Stage 3 Lyme patients are always quite ill when they arrive. In every one of them we find significant toxic loads, mainly heavy metals, chronic viruses, and severe imbalance in their inner metabolic milieu, plus adrenal fatigue and even neurotoxic bacteria in their intestines – all due to antibiotics! Very often, as a significant co-factor, these patients have a serious impairment of their metabolic detoxification pathways as well insufficient essential fatty acids and trace elements – issues for which conventional doctors, even "Lyme specialists", don't even test!
Our treatment for Lyme patients is very successful but takes time to undo the damage from years of poor health and antibiotics. You simply can't rebuild the body overnight. But we have countless cases considered incredible by the treating physician at home. Patients who had almost given up hope resume their normal lives. This is why our Lyme practice grows so dramatically – it isn't really because of an epidemic of the disease. The epidemic is of treatment failure. Paracelsius treatment line for lyme disease Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
I live quite close to Paracelsius hospital.
it is very true that people are bitten the whole time, and the great majority does not fall ill.
It took me one single bite to fall severely ill.
Exactly the same happened to my little daughter, when she was only 2.
Withe one bite, our health collapsed. Subsequent bites were like hell.
Now we've been almost 8 years lyme free, despite several bites a year.
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
brussels, this is interestingas I was recently reading about the hermit in siberia- she is super famous. .
she ives in a total tick infested area and has never been ill. has had thousands of ticks. anyway, thought is was interesting since I deffinitely feel lyme free and tick disease free right now and feel very immuno GREAT
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
I did have antibiotics in the beginning of my treatment but that is not what cured me. it did help but caused more trouble for me than they were worth and drained all our savings
I later did only natural things and find my self very well and free of lyme now. I feel no lyme =ness in me at this time.
it took a long time, but I had it for 15 years untreated at least.
whether it's still 'in me' hibernating, I don't know and I don't reallly care. I feel so much better than I was . not saying I have no problems, but I htink my issues
now are not related to lyme.
Posted by josh123 (Member # 48198) on :
Thank you very much bcb1200, sixgoofykids, Keebler and Brussels for all your responses and so much information.
I will look into the details provided like Rife, photon treatment etc.
I have urology appt next week. I will know more about my stomach issues and kidney stones ( will be doing Xrays and CT scan this week).
Based on that I will decide on non abx route.
thank you all once again.
Posted by josh123 (Member # 48198) on :
Thank you Lisak for your inputs.
With non abx route will it take longer time to cure than with abx?
On an average how much time would it take with Natural way?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
You're welcome, Josh.
If you are looking for fast symptom relief, it would be worth to try the drug way.
Less and less people seem to improve this way, but I heard of some fast improvement cases in the past.
The only problem with drug-only approach is that causes of illness are not treated. So next tick bite may start the whole hell again.
And also, many people improve at first well, but then there is a halt, and years may pass until they finally improve again, if they stick to same drug treatments, as dr. Rau said above.
So for many people who choose the drug way, it may take very long too.
I feel, the less you can detox well, the worst you fare with drugs. They become a burden with the months, years.
If your gut, digestion is very well, no food allergies, no other types of allergies, no food intolerance, not gut disease, drugs may work faster.
If your gut is already weakened, if you already suffer from a couple of allergies, I don't think there is a fast route, drugs or not drugs.
You gotta try to heal your gut parallel to lyme. No short cut exists, in my view.
If you never try the drug route, you'll never know if it works for you or not. I tried it briefly, didn't like it, too much pain, damage, and had to change.
My daughter tried a couple of months, she declined more with abx than without them. So for us, we are sure that the drug path is out.
Follow your gut feeling!
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Lisa! Congrats!!!!!!!
Just don't think about what may or not happen!
It's already nice to know your body arrived to reach remission, at least once!
It's a great encouragement, already.
It was exactly at that phase, when I could reach remission with natural treatments, that photon therapy entered my life and closed the chapter of chronic and acute lyme disease.
I hope more people here, that suffer from so many years of debilitating symptoms, reach that point and realize that, with or without the lyme bacteria, when lyme decides to be inactive, it's like you never had lyme before!
Symptoms go down to zero!
Being in remission or healed feels exactly the same. Dr. Rau keeps saying that many Swiss are serology positive for borrelia but never develop symptoms, die at old age, are physically very active etc.
Few people fighting lyme for years believe that remission feels exactly like totally healed. But it is so true!
Dr. Rau has had loads of patients too that start almost handicapped and after a couple of years, do not have lyme any more.
The great thing with holistic treatments is that you stop, after the years, being afraid of ticks, of nature, as these treatments try to heal whole bodies, and reinforce the immune system.
It is not the ticks that make us ill, as we evolved with Borrelia, the whole way.
I see that every year, from spring to fall, people getting bitten, and NOT falling ill. Even us, we don't fall ill anymore. Before one single bite would send us bed bound or wheel chair bound!
anyway, crossing fingers you'll remain symptom free for long!!
Posted by LisaK (Member # 41384) on :
thanks Brussels!!!
Josh, I want to add that when I did do antibiotics in the beginning of my treatment I had tons of herxing, but I wanted that becaseu I knew it meant I was getting rid of the buggers.
and after I findshed the abx I did feel much better than before. just still very ill though after becaseu I had way more to go.
did I say all thsis already? haha
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
Consider chanca piedra herbs for the stones and bvt for treatment ..read ellie lobel story ...aint for the faint
Posted by Luciano23 (Member # 49916) on :
What are some of the proven non ABX methods that you all have used? Thanks in advance
Posted by bluelyme (Member # 47170) on :
I got rid of babesia using a 5-month protocol as written by Buhner. I'm now on his lyme protocol which will run for a year. I'm nine months in and have had significant improvement. I made my own herbal tinctures so I don't have questions about how they were made and what was in them.
Posted by Luciano23 (Member # 49916) on :
Do you mind sharing the protocol? Is it a guide like burrascano?
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
Hi Luciano. I don't think anyone minds sharing Buhner's protocol, but it is so complete, complex 'protocol' /or more like a suggestion of herbal combinations and supplements...
... that the best method is simply: buy his books.
Google Stephen Buhner Lyme or bartonella, etc, you'll find them all.
Posted by Brussels (Member # 13480) on :
ABX method is proven for you?
Why is then so many people are so chronically ill after years, even decades of abx?
There is NO PROVEN method of a cure for ANY chronic disease whatsoever, in my opinion.
If there were, we wouldn't be here discussing what worked for us and what didn't.
If you read any of Buhner's books, you'll understand that there are some serious people out there trying to solve part of the puzzle.
Other very known methods that worked for many people are:
- Rife machines,
- hyperbaric chambers (oxygen),
- bee venom therapy as said above,
- dr. Rau's method (that is not his method, exactly, but a sort of German homotoxicology mixing Heel + Sanum + Pekana products and homeopathy, among other approaches)
Dr. K follows this somewhat German 'approach', so to say (whole body is treated from allergies, mouth /teeth / jaw, electrosmog sensitivity, toxic load of heavy metals, etc)
- photon therapy with nosodes (only for borrelia)
- herbal approaches like Buhner, Cowden, Chinese TCM for lyme, coinfections and other supportive treatments
..., these are the ones that come in my mind, that people often mention, but there are more!!
Posted by cesiumrainbow (Member # 49751) on :
Hey, Josh. There's a whole lot of personal experience and knowledge here. Here's what I've learned (and anyone feel free to comment).
LD is insanely individual when it comes to treatment response. There's at least one story out there of every combination of possibilities. Every form of treatment has its own adherents as well as people the treatment didn't work for or that it did damage to.
Being that abx is the only "official western medicine" approved treatment, abx treatment stories are probably most common. Plenty of people feel that it cured them forever. Plenty for whom it had limited or no effect. There are many it harmed, sometimes to a greater degree than the LD.
Likewise, there are stories of LD being cured by treatments other than abx. For some the symptoms disappeared with no treatment at all. There's even a segment of the population that are awash in spirochetes but will never express symptoms.
Since each person's LD reality is so different, individual stories aren't extremely helpful for planning your own treatment. Treatments that worked for others might or might not work for you.
One universal truth is that immune system health is absolutely crucial, so diet and supplements that support it are always good. Anything that might harm the immune system requires caution. Do what you can to minimize inflammation.
Not an expert opinion but I don't think the point of something like a detox/flush is to eliminate spirochetes as much as it is to support general health so your body is better equipped to fight LD.
Specialists that monitor your condition over time and adjust treatment accordingly can be great. Unfortunately, nutritionists and lyme literate doctors are hit-and-miss but in my experience lymenet is a great resource for getting recommemdations, warnings and feedback on particular specialists.
Good luck with whatever route you choose! And don't forget to come back and share your experience.
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