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Author Topic:   Updated In A Nutshell
Marnie
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posted 30 May 2004 13:12     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
(1) The genetic analysis of Bb indicates it has a 60 kDa pyrophosphate dependent PFK (phosphofructokinase) enzyme.

PMID: 12015149 (www.pubmed.com)


(2) The enzyme, PFK, is “rate limiting” for glycolysis (using glycogen, not oxygen, to supply energy). And we know Bb is anaerobic – does not need oxygen. It wants/needs sugar.

PMID: 10689623 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 1832860 (www.pubmed.com)


(3) PFK is INhibited by Mg-ATP (et al). (Most ATP is bound to Mg.). Insulin ACTIVATES it.
http://www.geocities.com/doctor_uae/carbohydrates.htm
http://www.mcw.edu/student/mcwsa/files/biochem22.doc
http://www.eimb.relarn.ru/eimb/3nature.htm
www.apjohncancerinstitute.org/newsletter-old2.htm
http://www.lowcarbluxury.com/newsletter/lclnewsvol03-no04-pg2.html

(4) Bb follows the cholesterol/ mevalonate / isoprenoid pathway. It has another enzyme: acetyl-CoA C-acetyltransferase. Cholesterol is needed to form the myelin sheath, the insulation around our nerves. In MS, this sheath is damaged.

(Rohmer 1999; Kim et al. 2000; Wilding et al. 2000a, b). or
http://proteinscience.org/cgi/content/full/13/3/687
http://www.sbc.su.se/~anna/PhylProM/families_with_members_in_profile/gi1652965.html
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/cholesterol.html
http://adams.mgh.harvard.edu/Reeves/workingresearch2.htm

(5) Mg (and statin drugs) INactivate the enzyme 5-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl-coenzyme A reductase (HMG-CoA reductase) which then reduces mevalonate, the first step in the cholesterol pathway.
http://www.lef.org/whatshot/2004_11.htm

Neurol India 2003;51:211-214

The above suggests that intracellular Mg levels play a critical role in regaining control of the glycolysis and cholesterol pathways which are impacted by this pathogen.

(6) Cancer doctors at a Romanian hospital found a very “significant” drop in Mg levels early on in 2 lyme patients. By restoring their magnesium levels, they were cured of lyme disease. Please note: this was caught early.
http://coldcure.com/html/2003-mag-abstracts.pfd

(Takes 2 minutes to download. Scroll down to page 68.)

It is “noted” here:

PMID: 14979639.

And here:
http://www.ad-astra.ro/isi/topic_articles.php?topic_id=IA

Sometimes, but not always, the coldcure website is hard to get into. So, I will post the abstract in its entirety here:

Lyme disease and magnesium deficiency
V. CRISTEA - Department of Immunopathology, Medical Clinic III, "Iuliu Hatieganu"
University of Medicine and Pharmacy, MONICA CRIAN - Department of Immunology,
"Ion Chiricu" Oncological Institute, Cluj-Napoca, Romania

V. CRIAN - ITEM-Paneuro Group. vlaicu@.m@if..c;!ntci,rQ

During the period April 2001 - January 2003, we had under observation two cases, in
which the presence of both IgM and IgG antibodies to Borrelia burgdorferi was
serologically confirmed at high titers.

In both cases, clinical manifestations were
similar: shivering, fever, headache, articular and right hypochondrium pain, and
objectively - tachycardia and erythema migrans - these elements being important for
the formulation of Lyme disease suspicion.

Humoral tests showed: significantly
increased ESR, leukocytosis with PMN predominance, intensely positive PCR (for B.
Burgdorferi DNA)

and significant magnesium deficiency (1.20 mEq/L, 1.33 mEq/L,
respectively).

A large spectrum of antibiotics with both oral and parenteral
administration has been so far used in the treatment of Lyme borreliosis. Among the
most frequently used are tetracyclines, betalactamides and cephalosporins.

The decision to initiate antibiotic therapy can be difficu1t because in the majority of the
cases acute infection is self-limited.

Asymptomatic patients, in whom laboratory
examinations sustain the diagnosis of Lyme disease, should be treated in order to
prevent rnfection dissemination.

Since in the first case antibiotic therapy alone did not
lead to the expected results, magnesium derivatives were also associated.

In both
cases, following combined therapy, symptomatology significantly improved at 14
days, and laboratory examinations were restored to normal values after 6-8 weeks -
disappearance of IgM to B. Burgdorferi and significantly increased magnesemia
(1.74 mEq/L, 1.72 mEq/L, respectively)

We believe that in certain diseases, Mg
deficiency can cause a decrease in immune response. The appearance of
recurrences, which are frequently reported in the literature, in spite of adequate
antibiotic therapy, could represent an argument for this.

This is why the use of Mg
derivatrves in therapy can represent an immunostimulating factor. The peculiarities of
the cases are the following:

1. Patients had in addition to fever, articular pain and erythema migrans, Mg
deficiency

2. The supplementation of therapy with Mg derrvatives had an immediate beneficial
effect that was maintained in time.

As a conclusion at this stage, we consider that in the acute phase of Lyme borreliosis
there is a significant Mg consumption and the introduction in therapy of such
preparations is recommended and beneficial.

(7) When Mg levels drop, this impacts the number and “health” of our antibodies. Since the Western Blot test measures antibodies, this may be why the testing is inaccurate (assuming it only measures healthy antibodies). The antibody specific to Bb is damaged – the “fab” portion.

PMID: 1093189 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 9125579 (www.pubmed.com)

(8) It takes Mg and Ca (calcium) to make completely HEALTHY antibodies.
http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

(9) When Mg levels drop, this has a huge impact on the number of free radicals, inflammation, thymus involution, eye damage, bone loss, mitochondrial damage and so on…

PMID: 10615213 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 9558736 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 11781153 (www.pubmed.com)
http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

PMID: 10488476 (www.pubmed.com)

J Nutr. 2004 Jan;134(1): 79-85

(10) When Mg levels drop, calcium tries to go into the cells. This triggers angiotensin II and finally TNF alpha – a proinflammatory cytokine.

PMID: 8390527 (www.pubmed.com)

(11) TNF alpha has many jobs. In fact, it is protective and beneficial.
www.Hopkins-arthritis.som.jhmi.edu/edu/acr2003/ra-treatments.html
www.dscmt.univ.trieste.it/text/curriculum/containerbiblio.htm

PMID: 10092616 (www.pubmed.com)
www.hdlighthouse.org/see/immune/tnf.htm
www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-128a.shtml
www.diabetesincontrol.com/issue166/item1.shtml
http://www.cell-research.com/991/991-syf1.html

PMID: 9195931 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 12522038 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 14704297 (www.pubmed.com)
www.saem.org/download/01kline.pdf

Gastroenterology 2004; 126: 840-848,917-919
www.joimr.org/phorum/read.php?f=2&I=38&t=38

PMID: 8537658 (www.pubmed.com)

PMID: 15958074 (www.pubmed.com)

(12) The antibiotics may modulate the immune system response.

Antimicrob Agents Chemother. 1997 January; 41 (1): 117–121

PMID: 8331300 (www.pubmed.com)

(13) H2O2, hydrogen peroxide, is a known microbicide – capable of killing many/most pathogens. We actually make H2O2 all the time inside our cells and one of our “beneficial bacteria” in our intestine also makes this, but H2O2 is quickly broken down by an enzyme called catalase because it is not healthy for our cells to remain acidic.

Bb is H2O2 “resistant”.
http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9820
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/418448 (you can join medscape then access)

PMID: 11687735 (www.pubmed.com)

(14) Bb does NOT contain the enzyme catalase.
http://www2.lymenet.org/domino/abstract.nsf/0/da835aef57144e6a0525657d0005cc3e?OpenDocument

(15) In 2001, an Italian by the name of Dr. Valletta, got a U.S. patent titled: Magnesium For Autoimmune. He cured RA, ulcerative colitis and invasive cancer in 6 months using Mg pyrophosphate and sublingual B6.

To read the patent, # 6,248,368 go to our government patent website and type in the number.

(16) We are using a Mg-peroxide solution as an antibacterial agent for clothing. This is also a U.S. patent (# 5,656,037).

To read about it, once again go to our government patent website and type in the number.

(17) Co-infections complicate the healing process, especially the co-infection with the protozoan, babesia. But in the 1970s, in Germany, vets cured neuro babesia in dogs using IV sodium bicarbonate. The dogs were acidotic and responded surprisingly well to an alkaline infusion.
http://www.sodbrennen-welt.de/science/1976/1976_4617.htm

(18) IVIG has been used to successfully treat a Bb-babesia infected patient, but the abstract was removed from pubmed. It was # 13680780. This is a very expensive treatment.

Once again, please note: to make HEALTHY antibodies (immunoglobulins), we must have enough Mg and Ca.

To read this article, one can go directly to the source:
Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2003 Sep;84(9):E34-E35.
http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

(19) Antibiotics deplete vital nutrients and destroy beneficial bacteria which in turn make many nutrients for us. Unfortunately, most doctors do not remind patients that it is vital to restore the beneficial bacteria (take probiotics) when taking antibiotics.

For a graph, go to this website and click on antibiotics:
http://www.thechiropracticvillage.com/id140.htm
http://www.phototour.minneapolis.mn.us/candida/
http://www.probiohealth.com/

Search: “metagenics probiotics”

Gut 2004;53:694-700,620-622.

(20) Mg is needed as a growth factor for the beneficial bacteria, lactobacilli.
http://www.emdchemicals.com/analytics/Micro_Manual/TEDISdata/prods/1_10660_0500.html

(21) We make hydrogen from acids which react with magnesium. CoQ10 carries hydrogen into the cells. CoQ10 levels are impacted due to the decline of many nutrients, especially B6 and magnesium.
http://www.coursework.info/i/67.html
http://www.msgtruth.org/why.htm
http://www.akins.com/hh/co_q10.htm

Astrophys. J. 589, L29; L89 (2003)
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2001/oct2001_report_coq10_01.html
http://www.globalnutrients.net/NutraceuticalsINDEX.htm

PMID: 11401418 (www.pubmed.com)
http://www.curezone.com/foods/coenzyme_q10.htm
http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james2.htm
www.lef.org/abstracts/codex/coq10_index.htm
http://www.americanlongevity.net/misc/CoQ10_000.php

(22) With a Mg deficiency, this puts persons at risk for cancer. Our NK (natural killer cells) need Mg and Ca to do their job. This is our first line of defense against cancer. The following is no longer able to be linked, but since it was “cut and paste” note from a college lecture, I will assume it is “common knowledge” for those studying biochemistry:

“Antibody Dependent Killer (K) and Natural Killer (NK) cells (ASCC) kill by extracellular cytotoxicity by binding to a target cell and secreting cytolysins which unidirectionally kill the target cell. Once the target is bound by an NKAR and no NKIR is activated, the cytotoxic reaction occurs. The interaction of cell adhesion molecules between NK and the target cell may tighten the attachment.

The first step is a MAGNESIUM DEPENDENT movement of the cytoplasmix organelles (Golgi and granules) of the NK cell to face the target cell. The secretion of the granule contents into the intercellular space is a CALCIUM DEPENDENT step that results in the preferential insertion of perforin pores into the target cell membrane.”

See also:
http://www.mnwelldir.org/docs/immune/immune1.htm
http://www.1stvitality.co.uk/az/magnesium/
www.expage.com/energizeyourlife13

(23) As stated above (4) Bb uses acetyl-CoA (part of the cholesterol pathway). This nutrient is also needed to make the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. When one neurotransmitter is effected, it impacts the others. The body’s BALANCE is off.

Serotonin (which ultimately converts to melatonin) and dopamine (cells damaged by free radicals) are impacted. This can lead to neuro symptoms (depression, sleep problems) and more than one neurological disease. We need nutrients to make the neurotransmitters and neurohormones.
http://web.indstate.edu/thcme/mwking/nerves.html
http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html
http://www.chemicalbalance.com/part_one_manual.htm

(24) There are other treatments used by lyme patients that indeed appear to be able to destroy this pathogen. Rife therapy and the Na-Vitamin C protocol are in this category. Still, be aware, that once the pathogen is destroyed, toxins (acids) are released and we must counter this. It is, however, my personal belief that restoring magnesium levels is the safest way to go.


To a degree, we set ourselves up for this…the inability to fight the pathogens. How? Well, the truth is our diets are harming us. As a nation, we are indeed ALREADY too low in magnesium. In the “nutritional” field, this is a well known fact. We ARE what we eat. If we continue to eat unhealthy junk foods, we will get/stay sick.

There are multiple “toxins”/acids/negative charges that we are exposed to in our environment and we must have the nutrients to combat them – the minerals - in their proper balance.
http://www.asthmaworld.org/Th1Th2.htm


Functions of Mg:

1. Make ATP (energy) by each and every cell.
2. Make all proteins…immunoglobulins (antibodies – along with calcium), hormones and enzymes (these are proteins)
3. Control OVER 350 enzymes
4. Stimulates DNA REPAIR…yes…REPAIR!

And more: http://www.mdschoice.com/elements/elements/major_minerals/magnesium.htm

Wishing you all a safe journey back to health. It IS possible.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 11 August 2005).]

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Mo
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posted 30 May 2004 14:36     Click Here to See the Profile for Mo   Click Here to Email Mo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Marnie. I've been reading your information for two years, and I have to tell you it was difficult for me to understand. (mainly because of my deficits)

Thank you for continuing to piece together all that encompasses our own body's response, and it's inherent abilities which seem to be tangled, restrained and thrown totally out of whack by these infections, and the resulting depletion of minerals.

It's not like our systems aren't "working", or are malfunctioning in an irreversable way..it's like our immune system is fighting valiently in trying to deflect the various acute imbalances and invaders on too many fronts to be successful..all the while depleted of the amunition reserves.

Thank you for going deeper into first, undestanding how/why this happens, and zeroing in on what is happening at the core of these disorders. Give the body what it needs to heal itself.

I have used high amounts of oral Mag Malate and small B6 along with Selenium for my son and I over the past year (along with many other nutritional supplements, Milk Thistle, MSM..)

I am certain this has helped us, but not to the degree of cure, or true freeing up of our immune systems.

I have decided to have us both tested accurately for Mg levels..through hair analysis, I'll try and find the website that has a very good method of testing and post it. (have it in my files somewhere). I suspect that despite the oral supplementation, we will have marked deficiency.

Based on those results..I am also going to find an MD or ND who will work with us to supply Mg IV, committing to at least three months of this.

I will also utalize the Beta Glucan along with.

I'll let you know how this progresses.

Thanks again for bringing this more into focus.

Mo

[This message has been edited by Mo (edited 30 May 2004).]

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Marnie
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posted 30 May 2004 17:39     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Doctor's Data 3755 Illinois Avenue, St. Charles, Il 60174-2420 can test your mineral levels (via a urine specimen). Your doctor can order the kit from them. You need to follow the directions and send it off (prepaid). Results take about 2 weeks.

Get Dr. Carolyn Dean's book, The Miracle of Magnesium...$14. Go to page 238...

Oral doses are a drop in the bucket. I didn't realize this until I read the Romanian abstract. IV doses are the ONLY way...to restore and MAINTAIN the level until you test negative as the Romanians did.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 01 March 2005).]

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Marnie
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posted 18 June 2004 10:27     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To the top for the person looking for the cancer/lymphoma links.

Citrates also INactivate PFK1...something to REALLY think about!

Avoid Mg glutamate and Mg aspartate. They will "excite" the brain and may indeed make things worse. Glutamate, as in "Chinese restaurant syndrome"....MSG...which is added to far too many foods!

Mg citrate (very cheap)bottles (pre barium enema prep). 1 ml = about 58mg of Mg per dose. That's a tiny amt. Could use a child's medicine syringe to measure.

Every hour for 6-8 doses per day would come close to the RDA for an ADULT. May have to work up to doses if diarrhea is an issue or look at things that lessen/slow down diarrhea perhaps.

Do NOT expect overnight results.

I wish docs here would give the Romanian combo of abx. and restoring Mg levels a try.
However, I do believe totally natural is the safest route (Valletta's patent)using the B vitamins (acidic) and Mg.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 18 June 2004).]

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3greatkids
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posted 18 June 2004 11:32     Click Here to See the Profile for 3greatkids     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you Marnie,I too am now just reading again with better comprehension and thank you for your time and wealth of info sharing.I am getting campers off and look forward to more reading days by myself!

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Marnie
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posted 17 July 2004 17:10     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Older version brought up recently, so I thought I'd bring the latest version to the top for newbies. The Romanian abstract (now at the beginning) is very, very important! It indicates the rapid loss of Mg...at VERY significant amts.!

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 01 March 2005).]

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Marnie
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posted 01 March 2005 09:03     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To the top for newbies. Please note:

Protect your gut with GOOD probiotics while on abx. This is critical. You MUST have a healthy gut (intestine) to absorb nutrients YOU need from foods and supplements. The probiotics will also help protect against harder-to-rid yeast problems.

Probiotics need to be taken with a FULL GLASS OF WATER ONE HOUR BEFORE MEALS...at least 2x/day.

Stomach acids PROMOTE the growth of the "friendly/beneficial" bacteria. The acids in the stomach break down the foods making it easier for the "good guys" to use.

The beneficial bacteria make for us many vitamins, some enzymes and even some natural antibiotics. They are destroyed by antibiotics.

The supplements that reduce stomach acids...present a problem. Makes timing/spacing critical.

IV routes for Mg are needed, but not available for most - very unfortunate. It looks like the skin (we DO absorb things thru our skin) and/or sublingual route (Mg trouches are available) may be the only option.

Fortunately BAGS of Epsom salts and boxes of baking soda for baths are not terribly expensive...

Get your docs "okay" first.

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lymiecanuck
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posted 01 March 2005 11:58     Click Here to See the Profile for lymiecanuck   Click Here to Email lymiecanuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
HI marnie,

I have wanted to ask you this for some time.

You know Citro-mag the laxative? This is loaded with magnesium, can you herx on this?

I have had to use this a couple of times after barium swallow and enema and wondered as I feel worse after taking it, like my herx had increased. This happened yesterday as I had a barium swallow with small bowel follow though to check for celiac.

What do you think?

Lymiecanuck

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Marnie
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posted 01 March 2005 13:05     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would expect so.

My post at the top has been changed. I eliminated a website by a microbiologist who changed his mind about a few things...manganese, not magnesium...and burgdorferi, not bergdorferi. I caught his misspelling originally and pointed it out. His website has been altered.

Curious that Bb needs to grow in a BSK growth medium (in a lab) which doesn't look to contain Mn.

Someone's watching...closely.

[This message has been edited by Marnie (edited 03 March 2005).]

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lymiecanuck
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posted 02 March 2005 20:17     Click Here to See the Profile for lymiecanuck   Click Here to Email lymiecanuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No doubt someone is watching. Right after I found that mag and malic acid I told you about months ago that I was taking lots of....off the market...still.

Now the mg/malic acid available is more expensive, as this was cheap as I was taking lots of it, as well as others for fibro. Now the does are smaller and it is more expensive, no way I can afford to get those levels again.

Lymiecanuck

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Lonestartick
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posted 02 March 2005 20:52     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonestartick   Click Here to Email Lonestartick     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Marnie,

The updated information is good. Now it’s even more accurate without the erroneous "Borrelia using/loving magnesium" statements, which contradict current research stating Borrelia burgdorferi uses MANGANESE dependent enzymatic pathways.

I, for one, have really benefited from your reminders about magnesium and its importance in building our immune systems. It’s very important in our quest for health. I think you are probably part of the reason that magnesium IVs have caught on in our community.

Thank you.

I don't know if this helps, but I'm really fond of Source Naturals Magnesium Malate. I don't know if it's as affordable as the one you've been using, but I can usually find it at most health food stores.

[This message has been edited by Lonestartick (edited 03 March 2005).]

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Marnie
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posted 06 March 2005 15:00     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It appears Bb uses Mn...manganese...to avoid being destroyed by H2O2.

However, like most pathogens, MANY minerals, vitamins, amino acids, etc. are involved. I am most concerned about the dramatic sudden drop in the Mg level since this is, I believe, the most critical of all the electrolytes.

We cannot hold onto K or Ca...eventually...if the Mg level drops. A Mg deficiency disrupts the Na-K pump (the flow of sodium and potassium in and out of the cells).

Keep in mind the following and ask yourselves...why does this pathogen have a Mg transporter protein (a 51 kDa MgtE )?

If you will read my "long overdue" posts...you will see where I took every lyme symptom and traced each to Mg deficiency symptom. It was done a long time ago, so some of the links may no longer work, but you will get the idea.

Even WHEN the pathogen is destroyed, you will continue to have symptoms until your mineral levels are restored. This will take time. The body heals and rebalances slowly.

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lymiecanuck
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posted 07 March 2005 08:53     Click Here to See the Profile for lymiecanuck   Click Here to Email lymiecanuck     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi,

I checked out the levels of Source Natruals mag and no, again, the doses too small.

So just using SISU mag and malic acid- 2 twice a day.

Before was getting 1800mg of magnesium and 3500mg of malic acid in 6 tablets, twice a day. This got me out of intracranial pressure, can't prove this, but was SO MUCH BETTER a week after this. It was cheap too, like 7.00 for about 90 caps if I remember correctly. The dose per tablet in other brands is too small.

Lymiecanuck

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JRWagner
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posted 11 March 2005 11:04     Click Here to See the Profile for JRWagner   Click Here to Email JRWagner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
TO THE TOP FOR NEW MEMBERS!

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Marnie
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posted 25 March 2005 08:50     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Updated...sorry, it's even LONGER...to include the information re: Bb using the cholesterol pathway.

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James H
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posted 25 March 2005 14:23     Click Here to See the Profile for James H   Click Here to Email James H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marnie,

That is great information! It is a pretty big nutshell though.

Putting this into practical application, how much Mg should we probably be taking? Alot than most of us probably are?

Can we get enough orally? Is it possible to get too much this way?

How about the IM Mg I see mentioned sometimes... Is this a practical alternative or just a way to add a sore backside to our list of miseries?

Are MG levels shown on our routine blood work?

Thanks! That is alot of information, I am just trying to reduce it to its practical application.

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hiker53
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posted 25 March 2005 15:46     Click Here to See the Profile for hiker53   Click Here to Email hiker53     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks again for the research and information. Before I was diagnosed with Lyme the chiropractor I went to see immediately told me I was deficient in Mg, Zn, and vitamin B.

Will IM shots of Mg work. How much Mg should be in a IM shot or an I.V. bag? I am on I.V.'s, so this is a logical route for me to go.

I take oral Mg, but not enough. It really upsets my stomach and I have found magnesium glycinate the only form I can tolerate. Any suggestions?

I love reading your information. With my science background I even understand a lot of it, despite "lyme brain."

Are you saying, too, that rife might help because of the EM waves? Or that certain energy healers might be of benefit? Of of my main symptoms is myoclonus and I would love to get rid of that.

I'd love for you to e-mail me with answers to my questions or post them here if you have time. God Bless you for all of you hard work on this.

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Wallace
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posted 26 March 2005 07:32     Click Here to See the Profile for Wallace     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Marnie

Are you prepared to consider other minerals? I am particularly interested in Zinc and iron and how their dual use can balance each other.

Zinc and Iron is discussed by Klinghardt http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/032695.html
Any thoughts?

Healing thoughts,

Wallace

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Marnie
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posted 26 March 2005 12:45     Click Here to See the Profile for Marnie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
James:

How much Mg…would depend on how low you are. Need accurate testing for starters.

From the Romanian abstract, it would appear Mg levels take a dive fast and this likely continues…more and more is lost.

What starts as a deficiency, ends up as a depletion, although it appears the body only lets levels drop just so far before turning to other minerals…the bad guys (Hg and Al) to provide the needed ++ charges.

NORMALLY…a lot of acids (--) react with a small amt. of a mineral (++) to make hydrogen…which combines with free oxygen radicals to make H2O2…which knocks out MOST, but not all, pathogens.

Bb is resistant to this. That’s what makes this disease so tough to fight.

Cannot get enough Mg orally (not enough is absorbed this way). The kidneys maintain the acid-base (alkaline) balance within a 2 hour time frame.

Excess Mg will be eliminated. The resultant diarrhea of massive oral doses would further deplete the electrolytes and likely the beneficial bacteria in the bowels.

Tricky situation.

IV and/or IM doses are very likely sorely needed. No pun intended.

Mg levels are not “routinely” measured as is potassium, sodium and calcium. Testing is notoriously inaccurate (serum levels) because magnesium is an INTRAcellular mineral.

Most is stored INSIDE the cells. The most accurate test would be tissue testing (muscle or bone cells)…ouch. 70% of our Mg is stored in our bones. A lot is stored in the liver and in the heart and brain.

However, there are new tests that do measure INTRAcellular levels via a urine sample. Doctor’s Data in Illinois does this test.

IF you can convince your doctor to order the above test (you will have to pay for it…not covered by insurance/medicare) perhaps the test results will convince your doctor to give you parental doses (IV/IM).

From my point of view, it is worth every penny to have this test run. Then you will know EXACTLY where you stand with regards to all the essential minerals…and which ones you need to supplement without “guessing”.

Yes, this is a lot of information. You wouldn’t believe my MS word files…hundreds…this post is truly a “nutshell” by comparison!

If I had to give you ONE piece of advice, I would say to go to the mdschoice website as mentioned and study it. It talks about the many, many functions of this mineral.

Without enough Mg, in time, the Ca levels will drop (they rise at first). Without enough Mg, this disrupts the Na-K pump. K rises at first, but down the road (way down), it drops too.

That, in my opinion, makes magnesium the #1 electrolyte…although it is not the most “abundant”. And we typically do not consume the foods high in it…although watch the ads in magazines!

All the electrolytes (minerals) are vital, as are all the vitamins and they work TOGETHER. This is why it gets soooooooo complex. When one “SIGNIFICANTLY” drops, the others are greatly impacted.

Restore the balance.

It takes Mg and Ca to make our OWN HEALTHY antibodies. With Mg low, we are making a lot of damaged antibodies…up goes inflammation (TNF alpha) because one of its jobs (has many PROTECTIVE JOBS) is to rid the body of IMPERFECT antibodies - documented.

How about a nice warm, not hot, 25 minute bath with Epsom salts – 4# bag every day? You might consider adding 1# of baking soda if co-infected with babesia (see the German vet abstract).YOUR CHOICE. YOUR DECISION.

I also especially like CoQ10 in the doses recommended to fight cancer (thank God for the internet). Supplements contain soybean or rice bran oil which contain the nutrients needed…goes right to the intended destination…into the cells. Pay attention to timing.

I especially like the “sea” supplements…or chorella for the multiple nutrients in them.

Want to know why depression is so common?
Tryptophan (amino acid in turkey and other foods) + B6 + B12 + Vit. C + Mg + Ca + Zn -> 5HTP -> serotonin + 2 ENZYMES -> melatonin (sleep). Note: other sources say even more nutrients are needed. Not enough serotonin (a lot produced in the GUT) = depression and ultimately sleep problems.

We need ALL the “ingredients” to make serotonin. Doc Rxs: SSRIs which tell your body, “Here’s more serotonin, take it.” 5HTP, on the other hand, says to your body, “Here are the ingredients to make serotonin. Make it if you need it, otherwise use the ingredients to make other things (niacin, for example). Big difference.

Must keep your gut healthy…probiotics…lots of good ones… so you can utilize the nutrients in your foods. Healing starts in the gut. Abx. destroy the beneficial flora. This is disastrous. Abx. also further deplete the minerals…this is KNOWN. This too is disastrous.

Hiker 53:

You live in a state where a Rife unit is available. Western ‘burb of Chicago. I know where it is. Yes, I believe Rife…the use of frequencies to literally shake apart the cell walls (greatly increasing the movement of the electrons – neg. charges) does seem to work. I have seen videos. I have tried it myself for other infections.

It does, as everything else, take time to work….and you still have the issue of the toxins (acids) released when the cell walls are destroyed…hence the need to be very, very careful when Rifing…this is not to be taken “lightly”! It is very powerful and you can shut down your kidneys if you become too acidic too fast. Too many acids harm HEALTHY cells.

Microwave ovens operate on the use of frequencies!

However, I PREFER to attack Bb using the route the body takes…support our OWN antibodies to knock out this pathogen in its “normal” configuration. We need to keep it in its “normal shape” for this to work.

Dr. Rife saw pathogens (thru his special microscope) transforming into viruses…which caused cancer. He also saw them transform BACK…from virus to bacteria. This is important, because it is easier for our body to rid bacteria than viruses. The smaller they mutate, the harder.

Would I, personally, do Rife if I had lyme? Yes, but I would ALSO be dramatically altering my lifestyle (bye, bye Pepsi) and supporting my OWN immune system via multiple supplements…esp. Mg, eating and drinking ONLY healthy things, getting out in the sunshine, etc. We need Mg, Ca and vitamin D for healthy bones.

We are using frequencies to destroy kidney stones. My husband just had (last week) frequencies (podiatrist) to the bottom of his foot to “cure” an inflamed tendon. He had 8 local injections first, then his foot was literally “pounded” with the frequencies. He was told NOT to take ANY anti-inflammatory meds. The idea is…inflammation heals. This is a NEW device.

The other energy healers…look to increase Mg levels, but that Mg has to be coming from somewhere…where? Kids who took Ritalin preteen are now “at risk” for depression and even cancer…according to very recent research. Ritalin increases PLASMA, not RBC levels of Mg. Was too much pulled from storage areas and when one needed “extra”, not enough was available? Many questions…so much we do not yet understand.

According to the U.S. patent by Valletta…timing (along with doses) is critical. So…putting grams (not milligrams) into an IV once a day, might not “cut it”. However…

We have yet to determine if “a rising tide lifts all boats” holds true. “Flood” the system and force Mg back into storage? I don’t know. I do know that my son TESTED deficient in Mg (and just about every other essential mineral!) and when he was given 2 GRAMS IV (for a panic attack, ie. tachycardia sent to ER), he did NOT have the “expected” diarrhea from such a large dose. Apparently he really, really needed it (and more!) as his tests showed.

Wallace:

Sometimes other minerals can “help out”. An example of this is using chromium plus acids to prevent late onset diabetes (Gluco Reg by Solar Ray / The Perricone Prescription to “reverse aging”). However, it doesn’t automatically address an underlying problem. Mg is related to diabetes…over 2000 websites to read!

Another example is using lithium to treat manic depression. However, George Eby, developer of zinc lozenges and author of an incredible huge Mg website, cured his own manic depression using Mg. In my opinion, better to get to the ROOT of the problem…take the missing mineral.

Something to think about…one cannot be cured of Scurvy using (acidic) B vitamins. He/she needs vitamin C.
Once again, we need to replace what is missing.

Calprotectin (a PROTEIN) inside neutrophils (most numerous WBCs) BINDS zinc and calcium for a REASON!!! It is PROTECTING us. Think of the implications of too much calcium…for example. (I have a whole file on calprotectin if you want it.)

The “side effects” of zinc and/or iron overdoses are horrible. I would be very, very cautious with this approach. We actually need a VERY LITTLE mineral to react with the acids to produce hydrogen. If VERY acidic…the mineral(s) would deplete accordingly.

A Mg deficiency can lead to anemia. This has to do with PFK…an enzyme that is “rate limiting” for glycolysis. Our astronauts coming home from Skylab were anemic. Their PFK levels dropped. The scientists did not know why. Perhaps the stress from that incredible job???! (http://lsda.jsc.nasa.gov/books/skylab/Ch27.htm)

This is why we now have some of the newer tests. They were developed to help our astronauts. The danger of you-know-what led to the development of a different solution to soak clothing in to protect the wearer (holds up for 30 washings).

The “side effects” of using fossil fuels…is forcing us to (eventually) purchase hybrid cars. Raise gas prices = get more people to make the switch.

We can’t afford medical costs (medicare is in greater trouble than social security).

We have to promote healthier lifestyles…starting with our kids. Get the sugary junk foods out of the schools (and encourage healthier eating at Mickey D’s)…these stress the immune system to the hilt. The pathogens, like us, love sugar. Slowly…the tide is turning.

What makes me really scared for my children and grandchildren is the ownership of our seed companies by the pharmaceutical industry. I do not believe we should alter our foods. No one knows..yet..what the implications are for Splenda…they replaced some of the carbon atoms with chlorine atoms. I don’t know about you, but that information has me concerned. We process the heck out of our foods and try to add back in the nutrients and we mess it up.

Did I miss any of your questions?

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James H
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posted 27 March 2005 19:04     Click Here to See the Profile for James H   Click Here to Email James H     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Marnie!

I know it is important, because early in this ordeal I started to get an irregular heartbeat. Adding a little Mg supplement completely eliminated that problem. It was even just the Mg oxide form from a grocery store, and it still worked! (I know better now.)

I am assuming when one is low enough on Mg that your heartbeat is being affected you are scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as your reserves are concerned.

We have an LLMD appointment tomorrow, this subject will be on the agenda.

Thanks again for taking the time to explain this so well!

[This message has been edited by James H (edited 27 March 2005).]

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ibrakeforticks
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posted 29 March 2005 14:52     Click Here to See the Profile for ibrakeforticks   Click Here to Email ibrakeforticks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marnie,
Maybe I missed it, but how much B6 do you suggest? I've read that too much B6 can cause problems, like peripheral neuropathy, which already bothers some Lyme patients.

What about taking P5P instead of B6?

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shassler64
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posted 04 April 2005 08:19     Click Here to See the Profile for shassler64   Click Here to Email shassler64     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Marnie!
Once again providing us all with such good infor.

Sue from Downunder.

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shassler64
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posted 19 April 2005 11:47     Click Here to See the Profile for shassler64   Click Here to Email shassler64     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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Carol in PA
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posted 19 April 2005 18:48     Click Here to See the Profile for Carol in PA   Click Here to Email Carol in PA     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Marnie,
Regarding magnesium supplements, there was a mention of using magnesium lotion.

What do you think of this?

Carol

August 11, Editing to add that I purchased Magnesium lotion.

[This message has been edited by Carol in PA (edited 11 August 2005).]

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treepatrol
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posted 12 August 2005 13:06     Click Here to See the Profile for treepatrol   Click Here to Email treepatrol     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
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