posted 12 April 2005 11:31            

However, Ticktox, you are saying (and I don't think I imagined this), that Lyme is the result of a communist conspiracy currently underway, as the countries of the former Soviet bloc are just pretending to be capitalist (????)

I guess the billionaire oligarchs in Russia are just pretending to be billionaires? And what's more you say the reds have taken over CDC, NIH, etc.

I am trying not to die of laughter here, picturing an updated version of the Manchurian Candidate, with McSweegan as the brainwashed US officer. Does this mean that if we get the jack-of-spades, or whatever it was, and wave it under McSweegan's nose, he will snap out of it and come on TV and admit that the Dressler-Steere criteria was full of sh*t? LOL.

Anyway, let's imagine that all the above really happened, the ALDF are secretly commies, so is CDC, so are NIH, Allen Steere sings the Red Falg to his T-cell collection before kissing them all good night,etc, as per your theory, ticktox.

I guess you mean so is the Bush administration (all that oil wealth was a great camouflage, huh? Who'd ever have guessed - Dubya is really a marxist-leninist guerilla who trained with Che in the desert - well some kind of gorilla anyway).

Anyhow, let's say we were to accept all that so far. You then say that the Russians, having fooled us into thinking they are capitalist and installed Bush, Steere etc as their puppets, spread Lyme on the US to weaken its population. Why then, is Russia and the former eastern bloc ABSOLUTELY CHOCK FULL OF LYME?

Lisa

quote:

---

Originally posted by dontlikeliver:
Hi Ticktox,

....... Why would certain countries like Sweden and Poland have very high Borreliosis infection rates - what would 'the communists' have to gain by targeting one neutral country and one which is basically just emerging out of the Eastern bloc itself? That makes no sense to me.

---

posted 12 April 2005 12:17               

Another quote by James Warburg to the Senate on Foreign Relations Committee on Feb. 17, 1950 " We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

The next one is what I think is happening and in order to have control over people to accomplish the goal of world government...you need to weaken everyone ...all over the world...to make them dependant and in the end begging for help from the very forces who caused the whole mess in the first place. It's called Problem_ Reaction -Solution Those in power create the problem...anticipating a certain reaction from the public...then they offer their solution whic was their goal in the first place. The crazy part is that the people end up believing the solution was their idea and then clammor for it.

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control...Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent." Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets.

John Kennedy was speaking to Columbia University and said something to the effect that The office of president is being used to foment a plot against the American people and I must warn them of their plight before I leave office. This speech was given ten days before he was murdered.

posted 12 April 2005 12:38               

As soon as things alluding to illuminati, freemasonry, communist infiltration and the like are used in trying to highlight Lyme, it's current testing shortcomings, (diagnosis), treatment, etc - I think that nobody would listen, and the 'Lyme community' would be in a worse position that we're in now in terms of not getting any respect.

It is unfortunate that serious issues such as any Lyme coverup get jumbled up with things that are bordering on 'down the rabbit hole', David Icke, type stuff (UFO's, reptilians, Planet X, polar shifts, etc). Going down that road just starts to blur everything and I think a lot of it is pure fantasy. But, that's just my opinion having read quite a bit of it.

posted 12 April 2005 14:36            

I have to stay out of the political theories arena, as much as I would lik to participate, I am too sick to come out and play todya.

When I had testing done mycoplasma showed up. I didn't think it was a big deal becasue I thought I just have to kick the lyme first. But it sounds as though I am being too casual about it.

What kind of treatment do I need for this?

posted 12 April 2005 15:06               

Ticktox, what am I supposed to say to someone who says, "I'll try to read it someday" and then starts talking as if he's already read it and knows what it's about.

YOu think you're asking a rhetorical question:
"Do you honestly believe that our own loyal military leaders would knowingly do something that could and will so weaken so many of our soldiers and place this country at risk."

Yes of course. Their reasoning was, esp in gulf war #1, that they didn't have enough vaccine to protect everybody, so if they used squalene, they could strengthen it, use less, and vaccinate everybody. It is indeed "collateral" damage when some of those vets get ill and stay ill. I was dicussing this with someone who had no pity for the vets, saying, being a soldier is risky business and you can die, and they signed on for it. I'm not sure I agree because that ignores social pressures, in certain environments, becoming a soldier is one of the few ways some kids can make a decent and 'honorable' living, and there may be peer pressure, and they may be completely naive about the consequences. But in any case, even if it is a choice and risky business, those vets should be taken care of, and they haven't been. There has been a lot of denial.

It really annoys me you won't even look at the book, so I will shrug you off now, like a tick, lol.

posted 12 April 2005 15:55               

As for our gov't being overrun by communists, I think I made it pretty clear in an earlier post that if we have been compromised it probably is by a relatively small number of mostly non-elected officials in important places of authority and decision making.

As for the fact that Lyme is rampant in the former Soviet states, my response is so. No one ever accused the communists of caring about their own people either. And no I never said Poland or the other former Soviet states are faking capitalism. It is real. What I essentially said is that the Soviet leaders took a step back to take two steps forward later. Addition by subtraction as it were.

I think some of Daystar's points are valid as well. This could all be part of a new world order, again perpetrated on us by a relatively small group of powerful people from various countries.

What I don't think it is is our own government deliberately poisoning its own people as some strategic part of its biowarfare program. My point throughout my posts is that it is not simply our own government turning on us but rather some rogue element within our government doing this as part of some grander plan.

posted 12 April 2005 16:07            

Anchorage Police Department Case # 05-15469

For weeks I was led to believe they were going to treat me with IV abx. at the low-income clinic here (Anchorage, Alaska). The doctor told me "I can get you back to the way you were--not in as good a condition when you did long-distance hiking, but pretty close".

Led me along until yesterdays appointment with medical director ended with the same old impossible demands of needing further proof to be able to treat Lyme disease w/ "potentially harmful" IV antibiotics.

I reiterated information that undertreated Lymes can be far worse than abx. side effects, but to no avail.

Before leaving, I requested my medical records. Didn't want to give them to me, receptionist said woman was not in, you have to come back at 1p.

Did so (50 minutes later). Receptionist said the woman actually was unavailable and I'd need to schedule an appointment. I insisted on seeing the records, speaking loudly about denial of treatment for chronic meningitis from Lyme disease equal similar to Nazi eugenics in that the poor are considered an unnecessary burden to society and allowed to die off. That the American healthcare system is being run by Nazi's, and that the director himself was a Nazi for aligning himself with Nazi ideaology and perpetuating the process consciously and deliberately. That the Anchorage Daily News censored the entire middle paragraph of my letter, suppressing information about deinal of medical treatment for Lyme disease.

Supervisor appeared, said the woman was available, but please wait 10 minutes. 20 minutes later was brought to a room by the woman who allowed me to read through my medical records.

She asked if anything was wrong in the records, I explained there was falsification of information provided in two instances. I explained that in detail, showed her where it was in the records, she said "let me show these records to the director and have him come and speak with you".

Director came back holding the records and discussed matter with me. I reiterated all about Lymes, that he could treat me, choosing not to, etc. I spoke calmly and politely, no threats, profanity, and remained seated entire time.

Bluntly told him that his comment earlier "you would be treated if this was a perfect world, but it's not, therefore...", was excuse-making. That when individuals consciously and deliberately deny treatment that reportedly brings a full recovery, thereby allowing harm to come to that patient, then that is what makes the world imperfect. It starts with individual decision-making.

I cited the Hippocratic Oath "do no harm" to the patient, and told the director he was in violation of that, and aligning himself with Nazi ideaology.

He objected, and got up to leave the room with the records.

I said, excuse me, I wqas given permission to look through those in order to pull out 5 pages for copying (was told earlier I would be allowed only 5 free copies, after that they would have to charge a fee--with not a coin in my pocket would be limited to 5 copies).

He hesitated to give them to me saying "we'll make the copies". I insisted "no, I need to see which ones, I was given permission", and he reluctantly handed them to me.

I placed records on table beside me and began to view them, the director changed his mind and said, "No. Give them back. We will handle the records."

I said "No. I need to read them". He beacme enraged and then assaulted me by grabbing me by the chest with his right hand as if to pull me away from the records. I looked him square in the eyes and said "Back off! You have no basis to put your hands on me."

He did so without my having to thrust him by his shoulders against the wall which would have been my next step, but I did not want to use physical force and implicate myself unless absolutely necessary. "That is a misdemeanor assault as you had no basis to grab me", I said. He told the woman seated there to call the police. She did. He then called an emergency security code, and a large group of staff surrounded the office entrance way.

I said to the crowd "The director just assaulted me. Witness that I'm seated in this chair as I have been this entire time. See where he grabbed my chest, and I lowered my shirt, then lifted up my shirt for a better view.

Director and woman kept haggling with me to give them the records. Director said "You will be arrested for stealing." I said I haven't left the property therefore I haven't stolen anything. All the while I was then holding the records behing my back in case they tried to take them by force.

I told the woman "You saw him grab me, you will have to witness that". She said "I didn't see anything". I said that is a false witness, you will be held accountable to God for that. I said you must tell the truth.

Police came, and took a report, asked me if I wanted director arrested, I hesitated. They said you must say yes or no. I said yes. One officer then went with staff to make copies of entire records (which was actually only about 5 pages), returned and gave me the copies.

I explained all to other officer as this occurred. Even letting him know that I spoke about Nazi idealogy earlier which could easily be considered inflammatory. He actually responded in a good way, that he understood.

The other officer then informed me I was being given notice of trespass, if I ever return to this property I will be arretsed for trespasssing. I asked if the director will be arrested for assault, they said not today, they will decide later when facts are considered.

The police followed me out of the room, through the lobby, and off the property which made me look like the criminal in this instance.

posted 13 April 2005 16:40            

You think Maggie Thatcher was some kind of heroine? She was prime minister during many long years of Lyme coverup here. She was a great admirer of Ronald Reagan, who also presided over many long years of Lyme coverup (I presume you love him too, or was he too "communist" for you? LOL)

If you want to know about Thatcher, you ought to come here and talk to people who were around when she was prime minister. She was called "Thatcher, the Milk-Snatcher" because one of her first actions was to take away the free pint of milk that poor schoolchildren were entitled to. I've just finished reading a book about her.

In the 80's she made the streets of Britain's major cities look like Charles Dickens' era overnight, by taking away the right of unemployed 16-17 year olds to receive welfare benefits if they had no job. In the past, kids this age who lived in abusive families and had been forced to run away could find a bedsit and have their rent paid, plus a little money to live on, till they could find a job (not easy for a 16 year old wuith no experience, who left home with just the clothes on his/her back). Then Thatcher changed the law, and they all ended up on the streets homeless, begging, used as prostitutes or slaves to the drug gangsters.

Except for the lucky few who found a way out, I am guessing that most of them are dead by now - AIDS, smack overdose, assault, TB, exposure, suicide, etc.. Life expectancy on the streets is not very long, and 35 would be a ripe old age.

But to get back on topic. It doesn't take a sage to understand that your beloved "market forces" are what drives Kaiser and BCBS and all the other insurance companies to tell Lymies to go to hell. What do you think Maggie Thatcher would say (if she can tear herself away from defending her son who is up to his neck in financial scandal at the moment)? She would say:

"Screw the Lymies, long live the clever entrepreneurs!!!"

All this talk about a joint capitalist-communist conspiracy which has taken over the US army is ridiculous, and highly reminiscent of old Hitler propaganda from the 30's and 40's.

The fact that the EIS have been able to enforce the Steere camp viewpoint across the entire US, and much of the rest of the world, in the face of all logic and scientific fact, shows clearly that this is not a matter of a few "foreign infiltrators" influencing policy, but a decision that has come right from the top.

So, going by your (pretzel) logic, you'd have to say more than just "communists are trying to take over America", you'd have to say "America is run by communists right now".

But maybe that IS your belief, in which case you are so far out to lunch, you are somewhere between breakfast and dinner next week.

Marjorie Tietjen, I hear what you say about the Iraqi scientist at Plum messing around with mycoplasma. It would not surprise me at all. But that does not indicate any "communist" leadership of Plum Island, much less of America's biowarfare as a whole. That's absurd.

It's common knowledge that the US, UK, France etc supplied WMD materials to Iraq. They did it to bolster up Iraq against the soviet-backed Iran. Do you hear me? They gave Saddam these horrific weapons in order to strengthen him AGAINST communism.

I don't know why you have to go to such bizarre lengths to escape the truth - our own lovely governments, our own generals, are what did this to us. Not deliberately, IMO. But whatever the origin of the Lyme epidemic - leak at Plum, badly designed experiment that went wrong, cold war attack by soviet bloc, rebound from western attack on soviet bloc, etc, etc - two things are clear.

One, the whole matter of Lyme and associated tick-borne disease is a matter of HUGE interest to the military (hence the disproportionate number of Steere camp swine who are biowarmen.)

Two, the military top brass have a motive to make the public believe that Lyme is hard to catch, easy to cure, and in general, not a big problem. Along with this, they seek to control all research into the science of Lyme, and persecute any doctors who don't toe the line.

These two things are provable, and once we make that proof widely available, we should begin to be able to change things, even if we can't yet prove exactly what has caused this epidemic.

To expose that the Steere camp is run by military, and by scientists with glaring conflicts of interest with insurance and other industries, will begin to open the door to change. There is no need to spin ridiculous yarns about America being run by communists, which will get the door shut right in our faces by fellow Lymies, never mind anyone else.

As for the idea of "how could our good American generals do this to us" - well, how did they do all the 1001 things they have done, both to their own troops and to US civilians, in the name of military research? what about the Tuskegee experiment ,done by CDC during McCarthy times (ok, let me guess, McCarthy was really a closet communist, right?)

What about the soldiers lured into blowing their brains out with LSD?

What about the vets contaminated by Agent Orange?

OK, let me guess, the Viet Cong was running America in the 70's and Agent Oranged and napalmed themselves so nobody would ever guess they had taken over Nixon's brain, right?

Gimme a break.

Can we get back to planet earth now, please?

posted 13 April 2005 17:39            

The post below is by "ChuckpAdams", a Steere camp provocateur who has been hanging out on sci.med.diseases.lyme for some years. I also had the "pleasure" of several private conversations with him, because he used to Instant-Message me to harass me whenever he could, once I began to speak out about the fraud.

There is ABSOLUTELY no doubt in my mind that this man (whom I have reason to believe is one of the millions of internet personas of Ed McSweegan, but I won't go into that now)-is ULTRA-PATRIOTIC. It is crystal clear to me that he believes that what he has been involved in, ie mass persecution of the Lyme community when he was Lyme programme officer at NIH, plus his role as a bioweapons expert - was for the good of America.

I base this not only on my private chats with him, (there's one in particular where he recited a bizarre poem to me about the US Marines being invincible, about his rifle being part of his soul, etc etc), but also on things like his post below.

Reading his post, we get a glimpse of the mindset we are dealing with, at least in some of them. I won't say all, because I don't believe that all the Steere camp are quite as £$%$£$%ed up as this man. I think generally they are more pragmatic than him, ie it's not that they all enjoy mass murder so much (though doubtless some do), it's just that they believe that it's the patriotic, strategically necessary thing to do.

No one could read this and think that the man is not a patriotic American. He is ULTRA-patriotic, but also totally, utterly insane, (which, as with Hitler, often goes hand in hand). Reading this, it's really not hard to see how he could be so callously indifferent to the hundreds of thousands of Lymie "collateral damage". Here it is below.

Lisa

From: Chuck P Adams (chuckpadams@aol.comnojunk)

Subject: The Glory of war. Patton,Bush, Iraq and beyond

View this article only

Newsgroups: sci.med.diseases.lyme

Date: 2004-03-12 15:23:03 PST

When I was a kid, I liked vaporizing ants with hammers and burning them with magnifying glasses, acting like a microcosmic god delivering slow or fast death upon ants.

Like the thrill of victory or the taste of good food, a person can know it, and call it "good" or "fun," but words can't convey feelings to those who've not felt them.

Fun. That simple word stands for many things, including glory, thrill, and "just for the hell of it." Our need for it is in our guts and in our genes. Our ancestors have sought fun all the way back to the time when they were molecules and single atoms. If there is a Purpose to life, maybe it is to enjoy ourselves, have fun.

But fun isn't always premised on good times and prettiness. It is often death and suffering, conquered nations or tribes, dead women and children.

It is mostly regarded as crazy to assert that the prospects of war or economic collapse or natural disaster are exciting and fun to contemplate, to examine, confront; that it is wonderful to have been scared out of your wits, to have dealt with the situation, and to have survived to tell about the thrill of it all. Such a thrill is for many people a memorable high point in life.

Many human beings, most male human beings, seem to be born with this desire. And we are effectively the priests of original sin, knowing how to direct physical energy to build and to destroy.

It is thrilling, and "fun" to have that power, use it, or at least fantasize about it. There is a scene in the movie Patton where George C. Scott as General Patton looks out over a battlefield at the bodies and smoldering tanks after a battle and says: "I love it so. God help me I do love it so. I love it more than life itself."

That scene, and that line, make the Patton character look insane, but it also admits a basic truth. Fun, thrill, the glory of victory in a hard-fought contest such as a war, a fist fight, an exhausting race up a steep gravelly incline, we do so love victory and its symbols: gold cups, pennants, scalps, ears, skins; a million dollars, or a billion, or more. Or The Button itself in front of you -- or devastation all around.

America's military power being used to "shock and awe" the Iraqi forces and people is instinctively attractive. Yes, it's cruel, but it sure is fun, and if you don't enjoy enough of it on TV the first time around, it'll be fun to watch on the History Channel for years to come.

"So George W., now be honest please: why do you want to attack Iraq?"

"Well, . . . to be as honest as I can, I wanna kill that mother****er."

"Why, George?"

"Because I have the power to do it. Because I am the most powerful human being ever -- and that is true! I wanna do it because it'll be fun, and God help me, I will love it so."

That's acceptable as a reason for this war.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by oxygenbabe:
[B]......YOu think you're asking a rhetorical question:
"Do you honestly believe that our own loyal military leaders would knowingly do something that could and will so weaken so many of our soldiers and place this country at risk."

Yes of course. Their reasoning was, esp in gulf war #1, that they didn't have enough vaccine to protect everybody, so if they used squalene, they could strengthen it, use less, and vaccinate everybody. It is indeed "collateral" damage when some of those vets get ill and stay ill. I was dicussing this with someone who had no pity for the vets, saying, being a soldier is risky business and you can die, and they signed on for it. ...B]

---