I've had 2 LLMDs tell me so far that this combo will hit Bartonella. I hate to doubt them, but sometimes I do.. Looking for opinions of others. I'm positive for Lyme & Bartonella Henselae through Igenex; so far, both Babesia tests are negative.
200 mg. Doxy. 2x day Biaxin 2x day Mepron 2x day 1 Artemisinin capsule 2x day Diflucan tablet 1x day (only Fri-Sun)
(also on some items for detox and of course probiotics)
Has anyone experienced any relief on this sort of combo?
posted
Skies, Usually Bart is hit with Levaquin or Rifampin. Some have reported success with Bactrim and Zith. What you described is more appropriate for Babesia.
Boca Lyme
Posts: 43 | From Florida | Registered: Jun 2010
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seekhelp
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posted
Yes, I think your LLMD has it wrong. They are not listening to the best LLMD in the universe, Dr. B.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
That is exactly what I thought... My LLMD is supposedly very good and I like him a lot. I wonder what would make him think and say that this combo helps with Bart? He does seem to try and keep up to date on things, as he was telling me recently about going to the last ILADS conference, etc.. This whole disease is so scary and frustrating. No wonder I've noticed no improvement in my symptoms.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
There si no clear cut what will work better for bartonella .But for sure that combo of your LLMD is for bartonella to .Rocephin and fluoroqinolone (Levaquin,ciprofloxacin)for at least 2 months is for acute bartonella with severe brain and other organ symptoms.For other organ infections Rocephin gentamicin ore doxycycline makrolide(biaxin or azythromycin)for 2 months ore more.Your LLMD are right but no one knows what will work best.
Posts: 482 | From Nebraska | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Dear skies, From your other post, I understand one of your LLMDs thought you have Babesia. It is VERY common to be co-infected with Borrelia, Babesia, and Bartonella in CT.
Blood work for Babesia only tests for 2 species, but more than that impact human health. Same is true for Bartonella (about 26 species so far?).
Both of your LLMDs sound wise in treating Babesia first. That is the latest protocol successful LLMDs use in the Northeast.
Babesia is a very tough protozoan, and patients will never get well if Babesia is not adequately addressed. It was recently found that Babesia & Borrelia can exchange DNA in humans, making eradication even more difficult.
Dr Burrascano's 16th edition of the ILADS Treatment Guidelines was outdated as soon as it hit the photocopier in October 2008. The best LLMDs interact with each other, sharing tips on what works best to help patients achieve long-term remission. Receiving tx from a LLMD currently active in ILADS (attending the October Conference in NJ) is a blessing to be embraced.
You stated you've been infected more than a year and in treatment just over a month. Be patient! It's excellent that you've begun on the healing path, but this will take time. You may need to take Mepron for 5 to 12 months. Babesia is very difficult to eradicate.
When all of your Babesia symptoms are gone, then it would be prudent to work on kicking Bartonella.
Since your LLMD has a good reputation and you like him, write down a few of your questions and ask him at your next appt.
sammy
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posted
I think that you should give the combo a try. Your doctor prescribed it for a reason. If you are concerned that it might not work, express your concerns to the doctor, ask them why they prescribed what they did. They should be willing to address your concerns.
I know, it's not Dr.B's guidelines but it is another medical reference that shows that both doxy and biaxin can be effective against Bartonella.
It may not be the most common protocol here but it may be what your doctor thinks is best for you to start out with. Your doctor may be planning on changing this protocol next month depending on your response to these meds. You don't know unless you ask.
So what I'm saying is trust the doctor that you chose, if you have concerns be sure to speak up. You are paying them to help you. I'm not a doctor. I just don't want you worrying and doubting your care.
Good luck Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
At the recent ILADS conference (there is a thread here with a link to notes), Dr. H said that babesia is becoming resistant and that he finds people need double that dosage of Mepron.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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TX Lyme Mom
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posted
Skies, are you absolutely sure about your diagnosis of Bartonella vs. Babesia? Maybe you got it confused or remembered wrong?
I'm suggesting this because I have a copy in front of me of the current therapy recommendations for Lyme, Bart, and Babs from the recent ILADS 2010 conference. (I bought the $40 CD from ILADS which contains all of the slides of all of the ILADS conference speakers.)
These are the various antibiotic combos being used for Bartonella, according to Dr. H., who was the Plenary speaker for this topic: Septra Qunolone + Rifampin Septra + Quinolone.
Mepron and Artemisia are always in the column for Babesia, but not for Bartonella nor for Lyme, as would be expected.
Dr. H's formatting makes it difficult to copy the entire slide here, and besides I don't want to break the ILADS copyright by atempting to do so.
Keep in mind that Dr. B's Treatment Guidelines are still very respected but that Dr. B. hasn't been treating clinically for several years, due to persecution by his state medical board. There are other equally respected leaders in the ILADS community whom the LLMDs are following now.
The only way for us to have access to their updated materials is by purchasing a copy of the ILADS 2010 Conf. CD -- which is a real bargain for just $40 plus a modest S&H fee. Besides that, it's a great way to support ILADS and to get something in return for doing so.
posted
I was not officially diagnosed with Bart, but have mostly Bart symptoms. I was going after Lyme with Biaxin/Plaquenil for 3 months with a little progress. When I introduced Doxy, I felt instantly calmed and by 4 weeks had the biggest herx ever. Have now been on Doxy 1 1/2 months with Biaxin/Plaquenil and I am finally feeling some real relief with most of my symptoms I believe to be Bart.
Posts: 319 | From Mass | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
Thank you all for the replies. The testing is definitely postive for Bart, negative for Bab (microti & fish). I have a copy of the test (which I was posting incorrectly about the first time, wording was confusing me). However, per the doctor, the results are correct as I stated (neg. for Bab. so far but positive for Bart). The first LLMD for some reason thought I had Babesia w/Lyme so put me right on this protocol immediately. In doing some reading on these diseases, I always had gut feeling from day one about the Bartonella. I've had such CNS symptoms w/horrible anxitey and depression, etc. I really did not ever have a lot of the Babesia symptoms at all, to be honest. I left a message today for the nurse at the LLMD's office. I want to either talk with him over the phone if he is willing or try to bump up my next appt. that is on 11/18. As you all know, it is so hard when these diseases take control of your life and start ruining it. I refuse to let that happen, but in the meantime, I just get really sad and scared. I have crying and anxiety bouts daily--I was a normal, non- depressed/anxious person before this and it has reduced me to a big pile of mush within the course of just a couple of months. I always prided myself on being mentally quick and sharp and have always performed well at my job. Now I am so mentally foggy, out of it, forgetful, you name it. I never dreamed that this disease would make me feel like I am losing such an important part of myself. I know so many of you all can identify. Sorry for the pity party! Just feels good to vent to those that I know understand this!
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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TX Lyme Mom
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posted
quote:Originally posted by Cattail: I was not officially diagnosed with Bart, but have mostly Bart symptoms. I was going after Lyme with Biaxin/Plaquenil for 3 months with a little progress. When I introduced Doxy, I felt instantly calmed and by 4 weeks had the biggest herx ever. Have now been on Doxy 1 1/2 months with Biaxin/Plaquenil and I am finally feeling some real relief with most of my symptoms I believe to be Bart.
Cattail, this makes perfectly good sense. It is hard (if not impossible) to get rid of Bart if Lyme is a co-infection because Lyme suppresses the immune system sufficiently for Bart to take hold and to be hard to eradicate in the presence of Lyme. The reference cited by Sammy, above, pertains to Bartonella as a mono-infection.
I suspect that this is why LLMDs use different combinations of antibiotics than the combo of doxy + Biaxen, as suggested by that journal article. Those two medications were chosen first because they are cheap, but the article goes on to state that if they are not effective after the first 2-3 weeks then a different combination of antibiotics should be selected.
It's a very good article. Thanks for posting the link to it, Sammy.
Posts: 4563 | From TX | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Thanks TX Lyme Mom. I am nowhere near remission and I'm sure that the new LLMD I'm seeing in January will evaluate me for cos as current LLMD does not and I will be switching abx at that time if I'm not doing a lot better.
Posts: 319 | From Mass | Registered: Feb 2010
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posted
What did your positive test for babesia or bartonella look like? Does it have "bands" like a western blot? or is it just something that says "positive". I have IgM bands 41 and 23 but suspect I also have co-infections. Lots of muscle, tendon, ligament, nerve type pains and daily headaches. I had a blood test for bartonella and babesia but they came back negative. I trust those tests zero.
Posts: 92 | From Georgia | Registered: Aug 2010
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posted
The tests for Babesia & Bartonella don't show bands like the western blot does (at least not the one I had, it was through Igenex). It basically shows a positive or negative based on your "titers." I don't have the test with me right now, but it tells you the number that is in the normal range for the IGM & IGG, and my number was higher, which per the doctor indicates a positive test result. Sorry I can't explain it better right now.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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