Topic: To those of you w/yeast-How are you certain you have it?
tickled1
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Many on here say they are certain they have candida and that you can have a raging case of it without having a feminine yeast infection or coating on the tongue.
How did you find out for sure that you have candida/yeast? Is there a test?
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seekhelp
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Good question. Everyone here thinks they have it. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Tincup
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There is a blood test for systemic yeast infections- pretty useless because it can be false.
lymie_in_md
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The best way to tell is to take some antifungal herbs and see if you react to it. By reacting to it, I mean, do you feel like you have a hangover, because when you kill off yeast it gives off alcohol.
If you have taken enough ABX well you've compromised your gut to yeast. At that point you have to assume a problem with it.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I wasn't positive that I had an issue with it until I treated for it. I've never had a yeast infection nor do I have a white coating on my tongue, no stomach upset, etc.. But, as soon as I started treating the yeast regularly, I started having (and I'm still having on and off) horrific "die off" symptoms. That's my experience with it so far. My doc suggested that I may have had a problem with candida before I "got sick" to have such a reaction to treatment. This is not pleasant.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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quote:Originally posted by skies: I wasn't positive that I had an issue with it until I treated for it. I've never had a yeast infection nor do I have a white coating on my tongue, no stomach upset, etc.. But, as soon as I started treating the yeast regularly, I started having (and I'm still having on and off) horrific "die off" symptoms. That's my experience with it so far. My doc suggested that I may have had a problem with candida before I "got sick" to have such a reaction to treatment. This is not pleasant.
- And sometimes you treat and just begin feeling better and better.
My clues are itching (esp scalp), bloating, headache, gurgling stomach, acid reflux .. can't think now of the others.
skies .. I DID have yeast issues before I was treated. Many Lyme patients do because of our suppressed immune systems.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Lymetoo: [QUOTE] skies .. I DID have yeast issues before I was treated. Many Lyme patients do because of our suppressed immune systems.
That makes sense. I'm sure that's also what happened with me..and that would explain why treating it is so difficult. I'm actually on a break from all antibiotics for now because of it.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
I've been doing quite well with the diet. Also taking VSL#3 and S. boulaardi daily as well as Theralac TruFlora 2 days per week. I was taking probiotics (granted, not as high CFU count as VSL#3) since day one of treatment, but that wasn't enough. I didn't watch my diet perfectly in the beginning..it's hard to eat so perfectly when you're feeling sick and are craving "comfort food." I was actually an extremely healthy eater prior to "getting sick.".. tons of veggies and organic meats, fruits, etc. Trying my hardest now to stay away from ALL sugar and any flours, etc. I do eat things like wild rice or brown rice and the occasional sweet potato... I have a hard time existing on only meat/eggs & veggies. I'm so thin right now that I really can't afford to lose more weight..and only eating meat & veggies would certainly make me lose. So I'm as careful as possible while still giving myself the fuel that I need right now.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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lymie_in_md
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It gets back to treat and see if there is a reaction (cause and effect diagnostics). We should have a laundry list of them, lymetutu you brought out an excellent point on gerd. If you had a laundry list of yeast like symptoms, what percentage of those with gerd have an issue with yeast. To bad our vaunted western medical didn't have the laundry list available to us. Such as take this and if you have these reactions you have an issue with yeast and this is the insurance accepted protocol to correct.
Sounds pretty simple to me!
The main symptom location for lymie, my guess is the liver and small intestine.
The vaunted white tongue doesn't tell you if you have yeast or your dehydrated. A great many lymies are dehydrated and may still have yeast.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Itchy scalp, feminine "yeast infection", white tongue, major gurgling stomach.
-------------------- We really know so little about the body and the microbiome. Posts: 261 | From Southern California | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
Lyme_in_md .. is right .. Treat and see what happens. Ask for a round of Diflucan if you have to.
skies.. sounds like you're doing pretty good on the diet... I do eat some carbs but I try to keep it to a minimum and stay away from really white foods.
I do eat brown rice and sweet potatoes in moderation.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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I believe it is so true that many will not even realize that yeast is a problem for them. I didn't even have the gurgling tummy, etc. I just a hunch that it was a problem for me. After discussing it w/my doctor, he did a blood test for candida albicans (I know, I've heard that's not the most accurate). I have elevated IGG/IGM so we decided to add Diflucan daily for a while to see. Upon having such a bad reaction to it, we decided that taking a break from antibiotics would be good to try and clear the candida up. I am also taking the Byron White A-L complex and artemisinin, so it's not like I'm not treating anything during this break from meds. He said it is clear to him that my immune system is "prioritizing yeast" at the moment so we need to concentrate on that for a while.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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seekhelp
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posted
Back in December 2009, I had a Candida Albicans antibody blood test that showed the following results. Less than 0.89 was negative, 0.90-0.99 equivocal and 1.00+ positive (meaning may indicate positive infection).
IgM: 1.12 IgA: 2.01 IgG: 1.93
Back in Nov-08, the same test was ran by LabCorp (previous posted one was done at ARUP). Results were:
I have ALL kinds of stomach gurgling, pressure, breathing problems, etc. Hmmmm.... None of my docs thought much of my Candida labs.
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tickled1
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I just completed 3 wks. of diflucan. I am off abx right now and have been for better part of a year due to stomach issues. Asked for diflucan b/c I was really bad through the holidays with sugar and having UTI symptoms but negative culture which led me to suspect yeast.
Problem is I was also bad with sugar/diet during diflucan course and continue to be bad with sugar/gluten. I am finding avoiding sugar/refined foods/gluten to be very difficult mostly b/c I find it hard to be on a completely different diet than the rest of my family. My illness has impacted them enough and I can't ask them to change to way they eat to accomodate me and I don't have the energy or ambition to prepare different meals for me and them. Also, the nearest "Whole Foods" is about 45 min. from me and the likelihood of me getting there on a regular basis is slim to none. I know I have to change the way I eat, it's just hard.
Anyway, I was actually just going through some old records and found that one of my doctors ran some kind of candia test on me a couple of years ago and I had positive antibodies. I don't have all the numbers but I was 1.9 on IgA. I also remember testing very positive to it on allergy tests. I'm thinking I probably had it even before starting abx for Lyme and co.
Some of the things that make me think I have it is I have many signs of leaky gut and allergies/food sensitivities. By allergies I don't mean sneezing/itchy watery eyes or anything like that but after eating certain things I get widespread pain throughout my body which I think means that b/c of leaky gut things are getting into my bloodstream that shouldn't and cause me pain.
Also, the UTI symptoms that aren't caused by bacteria b/c cultures come back negative so am thinking yeast is causing UTI symptoms. That was one of the main reasons I asked for diflucan this last time and those symptoms did clear up after starting the diflucan.
I also think I have a chronic fungal infection on my feet with peeling skin/discolored nails. So yeah, I guess I have candida. I was just about to restart abx. My mycoplasma p. levels are still very high. Maybe I should do a more alternative approach to treating this time? Like Buhner? I have a really hard time tolerating abx due to stomach issues.
Oh yeah, I also tested positive for Klebsiella and treated that with Bactrim I think last year but wonder if that is really gone.
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tickled1
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Oh yeah, way back when I was trying to get dx I also had a conventional blood test for candida and that was negative. That was w/stupid Primary Care doc. I requested the test.
The test I mentioned that I tested positive on for antibodies was I believe a different test done by a LLMD but not sure exactly what the test was called.
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tickled1
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Noticed toward tail end of diflucan course, and now, that I'm having tightness/irritation in my chest/lungs/windpipe that I haven't had in awhile with strangly voice. Dieoff?
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bcb1200
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I had a yeast issue before I was diagnosed. It got better once I started Nystatin and strong probiotics.
White tounge actually disappeared, etc.
I have few symptoms now.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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seekhelp
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A part of me wonders if taking GSE killed off some yeast and caused a huge reaction.
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tickled1
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I have some GSE on hand. Am thinking of starting it. Would hit cystic Lyme too. Would that be a mistake if I'm not taking abx with the GSE?
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bcb1200
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No mistake...take it in my opinion (mind you I am not a Dr.)
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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posted
Yes, I have so many of those symptoms. So I guess those were/are my symptoms of candida.. none of the "generic" signs of yeast at all. The above symptoms are so easily confused with those of lyme and/or co-infections! Best to try to treat the candida so you don't have a horrible overgrowth of that on top of everything else the body is dealing with.
-------------------- "The simple things can get you through the hardest times." Posts: 628 | From Connecticut | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
I'm not so sure anymore that the white coating on my tongue is yeast. If I swoosh hydrogen peroxide around in my mouth when my tongue has the white coating on it, it 'bubbles' like crazy...so wouldn't that suggest bacteria instead of yeast?
Also, when the white coating is most severe my tongue and the crevices between my teeth taste 'salty'. Does yeast give off sodium?
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Bugg
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Hi all-
I thought I would add my experience with yeast. After treating for years with abx and not getting well, I decided based on fatigue issues that I might have a yeast issue from all the abx.
I took the bloodtests and they were normal. However, my LLMD put me on Diflucan and I went on a yeast-free diet. Eventually I started feeling somewhat worse on the Diflucan and my LLMD attributed that to a herx...Well, unfortunately, he and I were both wrong. The Diflucan, in fact, was messing with the rhythm of my heart and really set me back. I didn't understand Diflucan could do this until I consulted with a cardiologist.
Once I stopped the Diflucan, I felt better and my heartbeat returned to normal...
Also, for what it's worth, I spoke with a physician at Duke Medical Center who specializes in candida issues. He said he gets calls like mine on a regular basis from around the country where people think they might have systemic yeast issues from long-term abx usage. He said in most instances that's simply not the case. He said once you stop the abx any yeast issues would just dissipate, especially if you are eating a normal diet. He said usually he only sees candida issues in severely immunocompromised patients (HIV..etc)...
He said it is a misconception that most blood tests are inaccurate to detect candida. He thinks unfortunately alot of this stuff about yeast got started by people promoting anti-yeast products/probiotics in chat rooms.
Please don't kill the messenger...I just wanted to pass this info along as food for thought....
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lymie_in_md
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Bugg you bring some very good information. As I said before use herbals, if you have an issue, you can tell based on the result, I wouldn't use diflucan unless I was sure the yeast problem couldn't be handled any other way.
The only problem with what Duke Medical Center is saying is if you don't see it, it's not there. If it's not in the blood test, it's not there, if its not in the folds of skin, it's not there. I don't think anything in our world is as cut and dry as he mentions. The other problem is immunocompromised, the utter definition of a chronic lymie. Hopefully Bugg I'm supporting the messenger, but have some reservations about the message. So forgive if its sounds differently, I sure didn't mean it to be.
Just one more take at the message, you talk to a researcher at Yale who says there is no such thing as chronic lyme. I guess we can all be a little jaundiced about what we're told. Especially listening to different researchers at the IOM (institute of medicine) and how they differ in what they've researched. Pretty eye opening!
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Stool test confirmed it for me. Though, I would say most people who have been on long term abx who have not been doing something prophylactic are at risk of Candida. I would say if everyone here *says* they have it, its probably because they do! Easy to get, hard to get rid of. I had it before I even knew I had Lyme or took abx.
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seekhelp
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I just spoke to my GI doc's office an hour ago. Remember the results I posted earlier on this thread - highly positive. They said no big deal. Everyone has Candida antibodies. They said no way could it be causing my bloating, pain, pressure. Makes me wonder honestly. He's a well-respected GI doctor.
EVERY conventional doctor tells me it's no concern. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Then there's Dr. B who has helped many Lyme patients and he says the exact opposite. That's what makes me think Lymie in MD is right...'immunocompromised' is what they can't comprehend because to them Lyme doesn't exist and certainly can't hurt us. Stupid logic.
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posted
What I love about Dr's is that they are SO deticated to the NUMBERS. Everything has a 'range' we are supposed to fall into. If you are outside the range, THEY get to decide if that is an issue or not. Really? If the range doesn't ultimately mean anything, then why do they have them? Grrrrr...
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posted
GI doctors and probably Duke doctors in general .. do not believe in yeast/candida.
seek .. your dr is most likely WRONG .. My GI can't see the forest for the trees either. His reasoning is that he's never SEEN it in a colonoscopy (of ANYONE).
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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blinkie
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I get bloating in my stomach and dry skin.
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lymie_in_md
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I'm guessing candida is ok if it isn't in a yeast or mold form. Now both of those forms cause excess gas and bloating not the candida form.
Our medical profession isn't that good at detecting the different organism in the human body.
So as a group we have to guess, now if we have bouts with bloat (just add sugar), it is caused by fermentation, and fermentation isn't usually from harmless bacteria. And what is the backend of fermentation, alcohol. The problem is sugar and sugar causes excess fermentation, which means the flora in our guts are compromised. Pretty simple!
Lymetutu --> I guess they haven't supplied GI docs with a Garman yeast navigation system. without it, it's not on their radar.
Even nih admits the issue of thrush in the throat and intestines
posted
He DOES believe in it in the mouth and throat and esophagus .. and of course, vaginally. But he says yeast can't get past the acid in the stomach.
I wish it were true! So wish!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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17hens
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Tutu, maybe you should show that yeast mental symptom list to nicole2011...just sayin'.
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
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tickled1
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Here's a thought. I once read that the vagus nerve is responsible for acid production in our stomachs. If the vagus nerve is damaged from Lyme, could we possibly not have enough stomach acid allowing yeast to thrive? That and being immunocompromised.
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lymie_in_md
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lauraj -- that is an excellent point about stomach acid and the lack of it creating environment that might shift the flora's balance. With lyme there is so many imbalances to correct because it effects so much of the body.
Researchers basically look at the body with tunnel vision seeing only the aspect their interested in.
Thought I'd post some tree analogies, maybe others could do better, lol!
Naturapathic doctors -- See's the forest first but no particular tree, tries to drill into the forest to find the right pattern.
Conventional doctors -- Finds a tree and latches onto it as the main system of the disease (like thyroid or cholesterol or blood pressure). All other trees are perfectly healthy, no need to worry.
Researcher -- byopsies the trees (based on the tree the doctors found) and puts the samples under a microscope
LLMDs -- sees both the forest and the trees, looks for patterns based on experience.
IDSA -- buries themselves into the ground and dream of a pot of gold. The forest is confused about it own illness, potentially psychotic.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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jackie51
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Lymie in Md--that's good, have never seen it.
So...what if bloating is only issue? What does one do? Are there herbel remedies to test?
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tickled1
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So incredibly positive now that yeast is an issue for me and is the MAIN issue right now. Would like to share with others HOW I am so sure of this.
Food allergies and sensitivities have been out of control for a very long time now. I react to almost everything I put in my mouth with burning face/neck/chest. This is indicative of leaky gut, in which things pass through the gut lining into the bloodstream which shouldn't prompting an allergic reaction to things that should be harmless. I am allergic to everything!
Eyes have been yellow and bilirubin elevated since February when I did a month long course of Diflucan. Think I have not been able to clear the die-off as I have tested positive for the genes that can't detox mold and Lyme.
Tried treating yeast several weeks back with Renew Life Candida Cleanse and Truflora and S. Boulardii and food allergy symptoms increased again as well as fibromyalgia symptoms, yellow eyes. Can't eat anything without reacting with burning face immediately or soon after.
So, just tried again with Nystatin, Therelac, S. Boulardii and my face (eyes, nose, mouth) and skin are on fire and itchy/sneezing and scalp is very itchy. Getting chills and hot flashes amongst other things and bladder symptoms are back.
Just thought I'd share some specific symptoms on what confirmed it for me as all I've ever read on here is things like "I'm so sure I have it because I reacted badly to treatment" but never any specifics on what they mean by "reacted badly". I'm not talking about people's above responses to my post above, those are great. I'm talking about other posts I've read when I was trying to figure out is yeast was a problem for me.
LLMD said we can approach it a couple of ways. Either power through at the max dose of Nystatin (but I have a daughter to take care of) of taper up slowly as I can handle it which is what I will have to do.
He said to ease the die off to take Benadryl, Zyrtec, Alka-Seltzer, and I could try the FiberSmart I bought to try to absorb some toxins. Also plenty of Magnesium to keep bowel movements regular to eliminate toxins. That's another thing. I always feel better after BM's so I believe that I reabsorb toxins in them. Have tried Cholestyramine and reacted badly, just felt worse overall. Have also had God awful smelling BM's after taking Wobenzym. Oh yeah, another yeast symptom I have is AWFUL breath, not from lack of hygiene. Comes from within.
I will try to stop coffee as it promotes an acidic environment for the yeast to thrive and clean up my diet. The alka-seltzer helps alkalize the body. It has taken away migraines for me in the past. I'm talking about the plain alka-seltzer, not the gold. So, it shouldn't have helped a migraine but did which indicates to me (and my LLMD) that symptoms are originating from something going on in the stomach.
I am also about to do some extensive stool testing which is able to identify DNA if anything that shows up in stool test as well as another food allergy panel. Klebsiella has been an issue for me in the past so we are specifically looking for that.
Just thought I'd share some details in case it could help someone else.
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