I hope those in on the NE coast with me enjoyed the break in weather yesterday!
Anyway, down to the nitty gritty.
I am one of those lucky few who can successfully knck out all of my Lyme symptoms with Doxy alone.. 200 mg a DAY is enough for me to get rid of the headaches, mind fog, fatigue, confusion, stupidity, burning neck, and ect. The problem is every time i would stop the meds, the symptoms came back. Now my Doc suspects Babs because breathing/cardiac symptoms showed up this time. So.. Ive been back on doxy for a while, and my head/pain symptoms are all gone now (still taking the doxy)and he said if we can knock out the co infections, then the lyme could be properly erradicated for GOOD.
I believe him bc i have read several times that relapses of lyme can occur when a co infection is not treated. Well here is my question:
I think hes out of his mind, he prescribed me Clindamycin - his orders are 600 MG TWICE a day! That seems like a lot, and everywhere i read babesia needs it to be combined with (quinine) sp?. The other known remedy i read of is Zith/Art?
I know about c - diff - but if you want to give me some advice i am more than happy to hear it!
I wanted to know if i should expect any improvement with Clindy alone, and if that dose seeems out of hand.. (seems high to me) and i also would like to know if it would be more effective for me to add Artemisinin in to the mix, if it would work with the Clindy.
Thank you!
-------------------- A tiny bug no bigger than a pimple on your butt can change your life. Posts: 101 | From Southern NJ | Registered: Oct 2009
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
I totally enjoyed our 81 degree weather yesterday.
Here is a site that tells the dosage of clinda for babesiosis:
"Usual Adult Dose for Babesiosis 600 mg orally every 6 to 8 hours or 1.2 grams IV twice daily, plus quinine sulfate 650 mg 3 times daily for 7 to 10 days."
I would not want to be on this medication based on what Burrascano says about it here (pages 23-4)
"TREATMENT Treating Babesia infections had always been difficult, because the therapy that had been recommended until 1998 consisted of a combination of clindamycin plus quinine. Published reports and clinical experience have shown this regimen to be unacceptable, as nearly half of patients so treated have had to abandon treatment due to serious side effects, many of which were disabling. Furthermore, even in patients who could tolerate these drugs, there was a failure rate approaching 50%."
Artemsinin would probably help, but if you add it the doctor is liable to blame the art rather than his treatment if you get sick. So, if you are going to let him treat you with this med, I think you should just do it his way.
It seems to me he is behind in his education on how to treat this disease.
Maybe you could take pages 23 and 24 to him and ask him for his opinion on them.
Not all lyme doctors follow the Burrascano protocol. So, if he has another protocol he likes, he will treat you according to it. If you want the Burrascano protocol, you need to ask before making an appt with the doctor, "Does he treat according to Burrascano?"
A doctor generally won't change his protocol for a patient. That would be like changing his religion just for you. So, you have to find a doc whose protocol you agree with.
Hope it works out for you. Sounds like you have wasted some time already treating lyme only and with doxy only. You are almost certain to have some lyme in the cyst form, and doxy won't get rid of that to my knowledge.
A doc who follows Burrascano would use at least 2 antibiotics against your lyme, even with the great reaction you are reporting. When the lyme evades the doxy by going into cyst form, you won't have any lyme symptoms. But, after stopping doxy, in about 1-2 weeks when the lyme comes out of cyst form, it will begin to multiply in you again. So, it is not really gone even though you feel good on just the doxy.
I wasted 2 years with a doc who had me on amoxicillin only. I felt pretty good just on that.
But, when I switched to a Burrascano doctor, he added flagyl to the amoxi and I had a 1 week herx right away. So, that proved to me what this doctor told me. He said that the amoxi had converted all my lyme into the cyst form. The herx was my proof. I never herxed on just the amoxi.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
I was on a Doxy/Bactrim combo, and i did use Flagy for a good 2 months, then stopped. Im so frustrated because he has great reviews and so many people claim to have been helped by him, and hes apparently one of the top 3 in NJ, yet he always does things i dont understand his reasoning for. hes not a talker so its hard to quiz him too.
Im definitely going to investigate other drs, as best i can. Money is an issue.
Thanks for the info! and the reply!
-------------------- A tiny bug no bigger than a pimple on your butt can change your life. Posts: 101 | From Southern NJ | Registered: Oct 2009
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
My doctor uses Clnda with Malarone and has had decent success. That's my next protocol. I also have concerns about the C-DIff. You should have your stool tested for C-diff before you start. If you have C-diff in your system it would be more likely that you will have a problem with it. My doc tests for C-diff before putting someone on this.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
600 mg of Clindamycin twice daily is a good dose for Babesiosis. It has been a good med for me. I agree though that you need an anti-malarial also.
Posts: 4681 | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
Haley - your doc seems to be better prepared than mine!
Sammi - i thought the anti malarial was needed also, otherwise im taking a potentially dangerous Abx for no reason!
TF - you have helped me so much on this forum whether you know it or not, and i HIGHLY respect your opinion and advice. I am going to call My dr monday and ask to be switched to Zith combo. I do not want to risk the c - diff, the ill side effects, let alone the failure rate.
Thank you for your responses!
-------------------- A tiny bug no bigger than a pimple on your butt can change your life. Posts: 101 | From Southern NJ | Registered: Oct 2009
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
You want Mepron and zith. (See Burrascano, page 24) THen, you can add art on your own. Don't take the art continuously. You need to take breaks from it.
Mepron is quite expensive. So, if your health insurance plan has a mail order pharmacy, you want to use that to buy the mepron. With one copay, they will send you a 3 month supply. So, be sure the prescription is for a 3 month supply (NOT one month with refills).
That will beat by a long shot what any pharmacy is going to charge you for this very expensive med. It can easily cost you $1,000 per month from a pharmacy.
Watch out for the mepron blues. If that happens to you (depression, thoughts of suicide, etc.) you will know it is the mepron. You can read previous threads about this side effect.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
Maybe your doc knows you can't afford the mepron and is testing a different med combo.
Doxy plus Clindamycin plus Flagyl worked on 3 out of 4 dogs in the abstract below.
Hubby added in Flagyl to his quinine and clindamycin and malarone and has been herxing more. On the next cycle I plan to add in minocycline since he has that on hand (same class as doxycycline).
Hubby was doing IV clindamycin at 600 mg 3 times per day but I decreased it to 2 times per day when I added in the IV flagyl. The LLMD originally said to do the clindamycin 2 or 3 times per day depending on how well it was tolerated. He also told hubby to take 6 s. boularrdi capsules daily while on the clindamycin. We use the Jarrow brand and order from vitacost.
Sometimes you have to get creative with these bugs.
The problem with the quinine and clindamycin combo is from side effects of both drugs. Quinine can cause hearing loss and also cardiac issues. So far it only seems to bother hubby's hearing while he is on the meds. During the off cycles his hearing returns to normal.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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A Possible treatment strategy and clinical factors to estimate the treatment response in Bebesia gibsoni infection.
Suzuki K, Wakabayashi H, Takahashi M, Fukushima K, Yabuki A, Endo Y.
Laboratory of Veterinary Internal Medicine, Faculty of Agriculture, Kagoshivma University, Korimoto, Kagoshima, Japan.
Abstract
The effectiveness of combination therapy using clindamycin, metronidazole and doxycycline against canine babesiosis, and the usefulness of platelet count and the plasma C-reactive protein (CRP) concentration as an estimation factor for treatment, were evaluated in four dogs experimentally infected with Babesia gibsoni.
The combination therapy successfully eliminated B. gibsoni in peripheral blood in 3 of 4 dogs, however the remaining dog showed obvious uncontrolled relapse after a temporary recovery.
In addition, it was shown that CRP levels decreased in an inverse relationship to the recovery of packed cell volume and therefore CRP levels could be used as an optional clinical marker to estimate the response to treatment.
PMID: 17551236 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]Free Article
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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