posted
I'm sitting here staring at the screen trying to think how to explain this and my brain isn't cooperationg!
Nutshell story~bitten in July 97 & put on 1 week antibiotic (Not Doxy). By Sept. I had "baker's cycst" ~ then unexplained rash ~ extreme fatigue ~ IBS ~ severe eye problems ~ very painful knees ~ thigh burning/tingling, feet burning ~ started looking for answers when calf muscles hurt so much I could barely walk. After a couple duck visits I found a LLMD, tested with IGx and started treatment Sept. 2010. (lyme, Babs & Bart)
In the above cocktail I had failed root canal at local dentist on bottom tooth, ended up loosing that tooth and the one by it. I had one tooth replaced with an implant. The next one's just gone and then there's the lonely wisdom tooth. That all ended last spring.
The implanted tooth has never been comfortable and I have a bad taste in that side of my mouth especially at night. The doc assures me the fake tooth is just fine, I must be grinding my teeth at night & to wear a nightguard. (I tried, didn't like it or see it helped.)
Lately, my jaw has been getting progressively worse. Now it seems swollen and is hurting very much! Moprin's not much help.
I've read that Babs can cause jaw problems and not to have root canal. I'm at the point I can no longer ignore this and even my ear is hurting and nothing is helping.
I'm thinking the wisdom tooth is in trouble too and expecting the dentist to want me to do a root canal (which didn't work the last 2 xs)
I'm sorry this is so long .... does anyone have any experience in this. Please help... I'm really trying not to panic~I hate to be in the dentist chair!!! I don't even know which dentist to trust!
I'm on Mepron, Doxy 400, B complex shot, some herbs and supplement as stomach will tolerate. Also, when I started Mepron 4 mo. ago that side of my face burned for 3 days.
-------------------- Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. If one person falls, the other can reach out and help. Posts: 338 | From NEPA | Registered: Mar 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Well, lyme and company gave me tooth and jaw pain also. The trouble was, my diseases were undiagnosed at the time.
I got a severe pain in my lower jaw/tooth. My great dentist did a root canal on the tooth. The pain did not go away. So, then he did a root canal on the tooth next to it. The pain still did not go away.
THen, he threw up his hands and yelled, "No more root canals!" and he sent me to an oral surgeon.
My pain was so bad that I wanted them to cut my head off. I lived on Lortab (hydrocodone, Vicodin) daily, just to be able to handle it.
The surgeon examined me and did xrays and his diagnosis was "inflammation." He told me to take something like 4 Advil 4 times per day for inflammation. I took it for about a month daily (plus the Lortab), but it only gave me acid reflux which I then had to get treated.
I felt like liquid fire was pouring down my jaw continually. This type of burning pain is nerve pain. Now I know that it was lyme and company causing this inflammation in my jaw/teeth.
On wet and cold days, the pain was worse. When I told that to the surgeon, he agreed, and said that the pain would probably not go away until the weather warmed up.
That's just how it happened too. It went away on its own after many months once the weather got warm.
So, I got 2 unneeded root canals. But, when it was discovered that I had lyme, babs, and bart, I then gave my dentist some info on the dental aspects of lyme disease. So, now he knows what this disease can do.
He also treated me for dry mouth which was caused by the lyme and cos.
I also got what seemed to be TMJ episodes--very painful. Each one went away on its own.
What concerns me about your story is that you have a bad taste in your mouth at night. That just sounds like infection to me. Can you go to an oral surgeon and have everything checked out?
Infection can cause a bad taste. It is the infection you are tasting. You don't notice it during the day, but at night, when you aren't eating and drinking, it becomes noticeable.
If there is infection, you need to be put on antibiotics to get rid of it. This can become very dangerous if it is not treated. So, please get it checked out.
I would delay having any more dental work done because I really doubt any of it will solve your problem, knowing what I know now.
Notice that "dental pain" is listed as a lyme symptom on page 10 of the Burrascano Guidelines found here:
I suffered other facial pain also--trigeminal neuralgia. So, just know that all of this can be caused by these diseases. Get yourself checked out by an oral surgeon and if he can't find anything wrong, then your symptoms likely will go away with good lyme treatment.
In the meantime, you may have to take pain medications. Hopefully, you will get relief as warm weather comes.
It is now 6 years since I completed my lyme treatment and I am still symptom free, enjoying my life. I praise God for this every day!
I had a total of 3 lyme doctors. The first 2 didn't know enough to cure me. Then, I found a doctor who followed the Burrascano Guidelines and in 1 year I was rid of my diseases.
The doc is the key to getting rid of this horrendous illness. Can't emphasize that enough. The doc is the key.
Many doctors treat lyme disease, but only a few know enough to get rid of it for a person.
I suggest you study the Burrascano Guidelines and compare your treatment to the Guidelines. For example, for babs, Burrascano says Mepron should be combined with zithromax and then the herb artimesinin should be added.
See the dosages that Burrascano recommends. Babesiosis discussion starts on page 22.
Study these guidelines and get an education on this disease. It will be one of the best things you ever did for yourself.
-------------------------- God still talks to people today!
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
TF, Thank you so much for your answer. It gives me hope that you are symptom free ~ I am so looking forward to the moment without the pain & weakness...
Do you know where to find the dental info on Lyme? I was trying to decide whether to go to the local dentist or the oral surgeon that did the tooth implant. I'll take your advice & call the surgeon 1st thing in the morning.
I'm almost afraid to mention the Lyme word. I've learned from experience from several other doctors that's a fighting word! But I think I could hand Dr. M printed material. (Between mental cloud & nervousness I might not be able to talk & make sense.)
I'm thinking possible infection, too, as my jaw seems swollen & very sore to the touch. It seems the implant is the main problem. The thought of removing it seems huge (all that expense & pain revisited!) You must be strong to have endured this type of pain for so long! Note: I'm on Doxy and was hoping that would help any infection.
You introducted problem #2 with the importance of a great LLMD. I did research and asked my LLMD if I should take Doxy with Mepron as Zithromax was recommened. He said he didn't see any problems as long as I took them 4 hr. apart. Also, it says to check liver/bloodwork every 3 weeks. That's not happening. I do like this doctor and am feeling better that I did in Sept. Maybe running on 60%. I'd have to travel to another state for a specialist LLMD and the out of pocket expense would be very tough. My next appt. is Apr. 27. He said we'll evaluate what to do next then.
Again, I appreciate all your wisdom & help.
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posted
Tension, not pain, in my lower jaw is my number one symptom, and after crashing my car back in December, I'm now being evaluated for complex partial seizures.
I may have even grand-mal'd a few times since I'm learning that 'chewed up' insides of lips and incontinence are also evidence of seizures, and the former I've noticed upon awakening many times, the latter (wetting the bed) only once this past August.
Could seizures be causing your issues, too? Some people who seizure describe feeling sore afterwards, and like I said, tension in my lower jaw is my number one symptom and they're evaluating me for complex partials and possibly tonic-clonics.
-------------------- Urge Congress on EMF Safety, FCC Must Change Exposure Guidelines for Microwave Radiation Exposure: http://tinyurl.com/2cjq54y Halt Universal Broadband, A Public Health Hazard: http://tinyurl.com/3x7xrmq Posts: 495 | From USA | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
DKat, I'm sorry you're going thru this. I'm having new pain related to a temp crown which flared up all my teeth and my jaw, crazy, and old pain from a root canal. so I know how miserable dental pain can be.
I'm going to try a biological dentist to see if I can get some answers there. It's hard to imagine a standard dentist being able to properly handle all that you're going thru.
Keep us posted on how you're doing, and I'll add any helpful info that my new dentist gives.
Posts: 857 | From northern california | Registered: Dec 2009
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posted
eliza, Wow, I'm sorry for all you're going through! I hope you find the doctor who will know what's causing this and you can begin to heal. God bless you!
dogmom, I'm sorry you're miserable with dental pain but I do love the company! The link you gave is very interesting. It does confirm to me not to let the dentist talk me into another root canal tomorrow. I really don't like to idea of loosing the last 2 of my bottom right teeth, but I'm thinking it's worth the no pain ~ no infection truth! I can always get a partial plate when I'm feeling better.
Thank you for sharing what you learn from your biological dentist visit. I'm very interested!
May you be healed & pain-free quickly....
-------------------- Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. If one person falls, the other can reach out and help. Posts: 338 | From NEPA | Registered: Mar 2011
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
DKat, I would not mention lyme to the oral surgeon. I would just want him to look for the cause of the pain and treat any infection he believed was present.
Be sure to tell him about the bad taste in the mouth.
Doxy is likely not going to be able to do anything for a dental infection.
If the jaw is sore to the touch and swollen, this is NOT nerve pain. It really sounds like it is now an abscess.
Regarding changing lyme doctors, it really pays to go to the best doctor you can afford. The el-cheapo way rarely works with this disease.
Some people try it for a few years. Then, they eventually get tired of still being sick, still taking meds, etc. and then they go to the best doc.
You are on just doxy for lyme treatment. That is not good lyme treatment unless you are in your first 30 days of treating lyme. So, don't expect to overcome lyme disease with this medication regimen.
You are not on the recommended combo with Mepron. Mepron is quite expensive. Not taking zith or another med in the same family is likely making the Mepron ineffectual which is a waste of your time and money. Also, by not adding the artimesinin, the treatment is even less likely to cure you of babesiosis. So, don't expect to overcome babesiosis while treating this way.
By not getting regular blood tests while on these meds, you risk damage to your kidneys and liver. These are serious things.
However, you know a lot more details about your treatment than I do. Perhaps the picture is quite different from what it appears in this post. The way it appears to me is not good.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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TF, Thank you so much for your advice. I have an appt. with the oral surgeon at 2 today. You're right, mentioning lyme to him may only complicate this matter.
You're right about treatment too. The only thing I didn't mention was I was already having bladder/kidney issues and assumed that was why the doxy instead of zith. I've been researching artimesinin and have ordered it from Amazon. (hoping it's the right kind).
I'm in an area that's fast becoming very active with lyme & co. But there are no doctors anywhere near that even believe it exists....my endocronologist (I have Graves) listened to my symptoms and did some bloodwork. Elisa Lyme test came back negative~he assured me both it wasn't my thyroid and I didn't have lyme. I went to a new duck doc who listened...more bloodwork, MRI of head & back & ultrasound of legs. He told me to wear support stockings & go to therapy for bulging lower disk. Couldn't explain feet burning, stiff elbows-fingers, etc. Finally found the LLMD I'm seeing now (who follows Dr. S. methods.) The last 2 ducks took the time to rebuke me for believing I had lyme.
I'm backed in a corner...my family reluctantly believes I have lyme since IGx came back. It's very hard to function & find a great doctor and learn myself of lyme & Co. when I'm not what I used to be. If crying would help....but it would only make my eyes feel worse.
Thank you so much for listening and for your advice. It helps more than you know! I'm so thankful for this site and everyone's experience. It will help me in healing too.
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posted
Just to follow up, I saw the oral surgeon today..I do like and trust him. He did an xray and exam and found that the tooth in front of the implant is abscessed. It's along side the eye tooth on bottom. I can have it pulled or try a root canal with an endodontist. He did not charge for the visit.
After reading the above link on root canals I really hesitate to go that route but I also hesitate to have another tooth visably missing! He put me on Amox. and pain pills as needed (I tried the pain stuff yesterday and think the stomach issues are as bad as the tooth/jaw ache.)
I'd like to know if this is lyme & co causing this...my teeth were filled but I do take good care of them and they shouldn't be deteriorating this fast! Doc. did say I couldn't let the infection keep going under that tooth....
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Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338
posted
LED light therapy can work to reduce inflammation and swelling, and help heal abcesses and infections.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Well, amoxi is a great lyme treatment medication. I took 1500 mg 3 times per day and got rid of lyme that way (took probinecid along with it). Added flagyl at the end to kill the cyst form of lyme.
Why not ask your lyme doc to switch the doxy to high dose amoxi with probinecid. Hopefully, this way, the abscess will not come back, and you will be getting good lyme treatment to boot.
You will have to let your lyme doctor know that you are now taking amoxi. When you call, ask if you should continue the doxy while taking the amoxi.
You can be thankful that your implant tooth is fine! That was good.
Also, just know that lyme compromises your immune system (like AIDS my lyme doctor told me) so that can be why you developed an abscess. Hopefully, nothing else like this will occur.
If you get a second abscess in that same tooth, then you will have to make a decision. Maybe that will never happen.
Maybe you can use this incident to educate your family more about lyme disease and its effects on the immune system.
To get your family more "on your side" you have to educate them about this disease.
Here are some quotes from the Burrascano Guidelines about how lyme compromises our immune systems so that we cannot fight infections very well at all:
"Furthermore, in the chronic form of Lyme, other factors can take on an ever more significant role- immune dysfunction, opportunistic infections, coinfections, biological toxins, metabolic and hormonal imbalances, deconditioning, etc." (page 3)
"Illness present for at least one year (this is approximately when immune breakdown attains clinically significant levels)." (page 3)
"Chronic Lyme is an altogether different illness than earlier stages, mainly because of the inhibitory effect on the immune system (Bb has been demonstrated in vitro to both inhibit and kill B- and T-cells, and will decrease the count of the CD-57 subset of the natural killer cells). As a result, not only is the infection with Bb perpetuated and allowed to advance, but the entire issue of co-infections arises. Ticks may contain and transmit to the host a multitude of potential pathogens. The clinical presentation of Lyme therefore reflects which pathogens are present and in what proportion. Apparently, in early infections, before extensive damage to the immune system has occurred, if the germ load of the co-infectors is low, and the Lyme is treated, many of the other ticktransmitted microbes can be contained and eliminated by the immune system. However, in the chronic patient, because of the inhibited defenses, the individual components of the co-infection are now active enough so that they too add to features of the illness and must be treated. In addition, many latent infections which may have pre-dated the tick bite, for example herpes viruses, can reactivate, thus adding to the illness." (pages 3-4)
"Chronic viral infections may be active in the chronic patient, due to their weakened immune response." (page 5)
"Chronic LB infections are known to suppress the immune system and can decrease the quantity of the CD-57 subset of the natural killer cells. As in HIV infection, where abnormally low T-cell counts are routinely used as a marker of how active that infection is, in LB we can use the degree of decrease of the CD-57 count to indicate how active the Lyme infection is and whether, after treatment ends, a relapse is likely to occur." (page 8) Notice similarity to HIV.
If you will be depending on your family to help you while you are ill with this disease, the time spent to educate them is necessary. Some buy the DVD movie "Under Our Skin" as a way of educating them.
Think about it. The more they understand how horrible this disease is, the more they may be willing to help you find a really good doctor, even if it means traveling to another state, so that you can regain your health.
If there is any way you can ever go to hear Dr. Burrascano speak, do it and take a family member. I got so much out of that and so did my husband.
There is much to learn about this disease.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Carol, thanks for the tip, I'll google the LED therapy tomorrow. (Tonight I'm hurting & fried). I am interested.
TF, Thank you for all the info. again. I was wondering where amox. stood in the Lyme treatment program (but didn't have a chance to research it yet).
I was planning on calling my lyme doc. in the morning. Today's been very hard...stress, pain, lyme...you know...then I had a board meeting tonight. I'm praying for wisdom to know how to talk with doc. I like that you had success with amox. (your dose was huge!) What helped your stomach & bladder accept it? I'm wondering what to do with the Mepron too. If I'm taking it, I'd like to do it right. I do see some improvement (sweats are lessening, thigh doesn't burn/shock as intensly, brain fog lifts more)
Hubby is considerate of me and accepts what I do to heal. He denied I had lyme & that I could really be sick until a couple of his diner buddies got diagnosed & complained about their symptoms. Today he told me maybe it would just be best to stop all meds & see what happens. He figured I'd just feel all better.... I reminded him that I was very close to not being able to walk in Sept. Doesn't make me angry, just sad.
I got a copy of UOS, hubby wouldn't watch but my parents did. Mom said she wished she didn't see it (lyme scares her but at least now she believes me) and Dad has always been supportive.
I will print out Dr. Burrascano's guideline tomorrow. It will be easier to read/study that way.
Again, I am SO thankful for all your help. God bless you for staying on this site to support us even after you're feeling better. You give much hope!
-------------------- Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. If one person falls, the other can reach out and help. Posts: 338 | From NEPA | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
Missing, I do a vitamin B complex shot in my thigh... I've had tooth & jaw discomfort for a couple years...even before the shot started.
Do you take your shot in your arm? I was told I must grind my teeth by the dentist & oral surgeon. They thought that was why the pain. I disagree but did try the mouth guard at night as they suggested. I couldn't tolerate that for long. I think rather I clench my teeth when something hurts....which in lyme state is pretty much constantly..
Would gum help in the daytime. I know the sugar/fake sugar isn't good for us, but it helps some...
In this moment the pain is awful, but, soon we'll be healed & pain free again!
-------------------- Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Two people are better off than one, for they can help each other succeed. If one person falls, the other can reach out and help. Posts: 338 | From NEPA | Registered: Mar 2011
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Last night I awoke at 2AM with intense back pain and a UTI. I assume this is from the 2 amox 500 I took. This pain, lack of sleep with an abscess is hard!
I have an appt. with LD today at noon. Any thoughts on how to get to the other side of this?
If this doesn't lesson, there's no way I'm sitting in a chair tomorrow playing root canal with the endodontist.
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