Hambone
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posted
I don't know why, but I've been so scared to get started with this.
I've had this box of Parastroy for months now and have only stared at it.
Just took my first dose ( only half to test the waters ).
Anybody know about how long it will take to see things IF there are things to be seen?
Does it make you feel bad? I can handle a little discomfort, but is it like full-on Herx'ing?
One more thing...
I have to take my Doxy with food. The instructions on Parastroy say to take with food. Can you take antibiotics and antiparasitics at the same time?
Wish me luck. Hoping this might help with abdominal pain.
Please work please work please work
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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mojo
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You may not see anything - that would be very normal as most parasites are microcsopic or they can be 'hidden' in the stool. I don't look very close!
Each of my parasite cleanses has been different - sometimes I feel nothing. The first few I herxed very very mildly. One I had a day of being very ill (like a 12 hour flu) and then I was fine and continued my cleanse.
I'd say the Doxy and Parastroy can be taken together but hope someone else replies on that question, too. All of my cleanses recommended an empty stomach so I took it first thing in the a.m. and then at night.
Happy cleansing!
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glm1111
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Take the Parastroy with food because it contains HCL and it is suggested. Start with 1 capsule a day each para rid and para sweep for a week, then increase to 2.
You can increase to 3 after the 3rd week. according to how you feel. It is recommended to stay on it for 6 mos and then 1 mos off. Persistence is key with these herbs.
Good Luck,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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lululymemom
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In my daughter's experience, she felt it did good for her, but unfortunately, since doing it she has been left with liver pain. We now have to see why she is having it, even with normal enzymes.
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Hambone
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Thank you!!
So far so good. Took it several hours ago and I didn't blow up.
quote:Originally posted by lululymemom: In my daughter's experience, she felt it did good for her, but unfortunately, since doing it she has been left with liver pain. We now have to see why she is having it, even with normal enzymes.
I had horrible liver pain with normal enzymes, so my LLMD ordered an ultrasound. It was GAS. Lots and lots of GAS that was trapped around the liver area. Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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lululymemom
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Hambone, how long did you have the gas for and what did you do to get rid of it? She's been having pain for over a month now..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Hambone
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quote:Originally posted by lululymemom: Hambone, how long did you have the gas for and what did you do to get rid of it? She's been having pain for over a month now..
I started Doxy soon after the ultrasound and the pain went down about 75%. I was later switched to two other abx's and the pain sloooowly came back. So LLMD put me back on Doxy, and the pain level went way back down ( not complelety gone, but MUCH better ).
I'm thinking the pain was maybe from small intestine bacterial overgrowth that Doxy happened to hit? Maybe the bacteria was offgassing and had nowhere to go? Not sure. Just a guess.
I'd had this liver area pain for a solid 4 years and nobody could ever tell me why. Had CT scan, endoscopy, and then Dr's who insisted it was acid reflux and wanted me on PPI's. It was so bad, it felt like a hot poker going straight through to my back. Found my LLMD, got ultrasound, on Doxy 2 weeks and poof....pain is so much better.
Ask your doc to order her an abdominal ultrasound.
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lululymemom
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4 years is a long time to live with that pain. My guess was that once the parasites were dying off they were releasing metals into her system that may have overwhelmed her liver. I'm thinking she will have to do a flush sometime in the near future.
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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chiquita incognita
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Carminative (gas-breaking) herbs:
Combination of peppermint, chamomile as tea can help.
Combination of coriander, fennel, mint, caraway seeds can help, in foods or as tea (not as pleasant tasting as tea). Mix with yogurt as food, very good in cucumber-yogurt salad et al.
Garlic, ditto.
Probiotics, yes definitely.
Hot chamomile compresses, anti-inflammatory (will stain, be sure to use extra older towels to cover the compress and protect sheets and clothing).
Digestive bitters, help to secrete liver bile and digest foods. Dandelion leaves, arugula, also sour flavors like fresh-squeezed lemonaid et al.
Digestive enzymes to help break down foods.
Marshmallow root if any digestive irritation exists, chamomile ditto.
This is for adjunct support, not medical therapy. If symptoms persist or worsen, discontinue and consult your physician.
Best wishes, CI
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and does not diagnose, prevent or cure any disease. Drugs and herbs may interact, talk with your doctor.
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chiquita incognita
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PS For adjunct support in bacterial infections, if these cause the pain:
Lots of garlic, lots of it again!
Berberines (goldenseal, barberry, oregon grape root. A product by Metagenics called CandiBactin BR is a mix of berberines)
Grapefruit seed extract, diluted only, never use it straight, caution with children it's strong and extremely bitter,they won't touch it anyway. Should not be used together with abx, will kill bugs and friendly probiotics too just like abx, according to Buhner.
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and does not diagnose, cure or prevent any disease. Drugs and herbs may interact, talk with your doctor.
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lululymemom
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Thanks for all the great ideas, Chiquita! You are always a wealth of information, and I will be sure to check back to this post often..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Hambone
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Thank you CI
quote:Originally posted by chiquita incognita: Lots of garlic, lots of it again!
This made me giggle. A while back a lady in church choir was using lots of garlic for candida ( I think it was candida ) and finally the choir members had a talk with her about her breath...told her she needed to see a doctor because something was terribly wrong.
Poor lady.
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17hens
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lulu, how about coffee enemas?
Hambone, my mom was getting bronchitis (she feels it coming on) right before a trip (plane) so she started taking 30 garlic 2xday. She said it was the best trip because even though the plane was full, she had empty seats all around her - they moved away!
-------------------- "My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26
bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10 Posts: 3043 | From PA | Registered: Dec 2009
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lululymemom
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Hmm... that might be a better option.. Not sure she will go for that but I will suggest it.. Thx!
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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chiquita incognita
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Lulu, Hambone, you are both very sweet! Thank you so much. But please know i am only sooo glad if it can help, it really makes me happy!!!
One more thought, and this is a "duh" I should have thought of thsi first...
Peppermint essential oil can really help with that gassy stuff, if more gentle things don't work first (I would try peppermint/chamomile tea and carminative herbs above, first).
And have gallstones been ruled out if there is liver pain???
Hambone
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quote:Originally posted by onbam: Better than Steeer'd.
Ugg....that name. Blech.
I'm feeling more pain everywhere since starting Parastroy. I can deal with it if this is as bad as it will get. Sleeping is more painful ( hurts to roll over ). Also have acid reflux in the early a.m. that I didn't have before.
We shall see what happens next.
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lululymemom
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I had a hard time with the parasite cleanses due to the ingredients worsening my acid reflux. It does sound like it's working for you with the intensification of symptoms..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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Hambone
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quote:Originally posted by lululymemom: I had a hard time with the parasite cleanses due to the ingredients worsening my acid reflux. It does sound like it's working for you with the intensification of symptoms..
I get very drowsy about an hour after taking it, too.
Weird.
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lululymemom
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Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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glm1111
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Take it with food because it contains HCL AND drink plenty of water so you don't get acid reflux.
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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GiGi
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When I was at that spot 12 years ago, in order to lower the existing debris, I did regular colonics to create room. Then one can move on to the next rounds of eliminating trials. Forget the herx. Roadways are blocked after years of stagnation and almost anything one does feels miserable. Has nothing to do with herx or killing pathogens.
Give it some thought, please.
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lululymemom
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Garlic, wormwood, grapefruit are some of the herbs used among other "killing" herbs... so yes, it can be a herx.
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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chiquita incognita
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Hi Lulu Of these herbs, the grapefruit seed extract is the only one that directly "kills" pathogens.
Others stimulate immune defenses which rid the body of invaders via various mechanisms.
So the herx thing may or may not apply, especially only one hour after taking a product.
However, there could be an allergic reaction, or other metabolic matter causing the fatigue. Also if the body's energies are going toward healing, then that too can cause fatigue.
Acid reflux may be caused by the HCL for sure, or also the bitter herbs which stimulate bile flow from the liver. This can cause excess hyperacidity if a person is hyperacidic to begin with (won't cause hyperacidity in other individuals).
Not sure how I would antidote that matter. Yes a lot of extra water, oils, etc but the fact is that the chemistry may be off-balance.
In that case, I would tend toward things that are less likely to produce hyperadicity, such as black walnut extract, garlic and other things that are not bitter, bile-stimulating herbs. Bitter/sour flavors stimulate bile, just FYI.
If gallstones are involved, i suggest reading teh book Natural Therapy for your Liver, has lots of info.
Coffee enemas (according to Linda Rector Page ND in her book Healthy Healing), the herb boldo (according to the liver therapy book above) and castor oil packs (according to people posting on this forum) may help to dilate gallbladder ducts and aid the release of gallstones. Boldo has to be used carefully, may impact the kidneys so over-use is not advised, but moderate short-term use is fine unless kidney ailments already exist.
Best wishes, CI ps this is for adjunct support,and is for educational purposes which cannot be substituted for medical advice or appropriate medical care. Be sure but I mean absolutely sure to run this by your naturopathic doctor to check for their approval before doing anything.Gallstones require a physician's watch, never self-treat such conditions. Consider this information as questions to ask your doctor about, and nothing more.
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, prevent or cure any disease.
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chiquita incognita
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COffee enemas, caution:
I think they are over-hyped on this forum.
According to Linda Rector Page, ND in her book Healthy Healing, they do dilate gallbladder ducts and guess what, yes they stimulate bile. Which is a good thing, but again if hyper-acidic, this is contra-indicated.
Being of a stimulating nature, I would suggest that coffee enemas as a routine are contra-indicated in liver "heat" conditions. IE if there is liver hyper-secretion, inflammation, irritation, toxic overload, etc I don't think it is the best idea at all. Especially as a routine matter.
Then again in sluggish or "damp" conditions, coffee enemas might be a very good idea.
As a one-time basis to dilate gallbladder ducts may be useful.
If the liver is "heated" and needs "cooling" I would be more inclined to do chamomile/yarrow enemas, catnip, etc.
Yarrow will stimulate bile, just FYI see cautions above. It's a balancing act with chemistry!
If there are parasites you could read Linda Rector Page, ND"s book Healthy Healing about her parasite page, and garlic enemas.
Best wishes, CI
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, prevent or cure any disease.
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lululymemom
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With all due respect, CI, Garlic is known to have anti-pathogenic properties:
Garlic is a broad spectrum antibiotic, killing a wide variety of bacteria. Many pharmaceutical antibiotics kill only a narrow range of these germs. Dr. Tariq Abdullah, a prominent garlic researcher stated in the August 1987 issue of Prevention: �Garlic has the broadest spectrum of any antimicrobial substance that we know of � it is antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasitic, antiprotozoan and antiviral.� Table 16.1 shows some of the organisms that researchers have found garlic to be effective against. This property belongs to the garlic constituent allicin, which is released when you cut a garlic clove.
This is the chemical that gives fresh garlic its strong biting flavor, and you need to use fresh garlic to get a reliable antibiotic effect. Commercial powders and other products will not work for direct applications. Garlic appears to have antibiotic activity whether taken internally or applied topically � researchers found that the urine and blood serum of human subjects taking garlic had activity against fungi (Caporaso et al 1983).
Antimicrobial: Herbs that can help the body destroy or resist pathogenic micro-organisms. Calendula, Cat's Claw, CLOVES, Echinacea, Licorice, Lovage, St. John's Wort, Usnea, Uva Ursi, Wild Indigo, WORMWOOD.
I'm actually a little surprised that you didn't know this. There is also nothing to say that you cannot have a herx reaction 1 hour after ingesting anti-microbials..
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
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chiquita incognita
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Hi Lulu Thank you for the link and the information. Yes I was aware of the broad spectrum action of garlic, but let me clarify what I meant. Perhaps I didn't word it very well, so thank you for the giving me the opportunity to clarify this.
Did you see what I wrote about the *Way* herbs work? Not as direct killers of foreign invaders per se, but instead by raising immune defenses. There's an important distinction there, because the one approach (like abx) requires probiotic supplements to replace what friendly life was lost, and the other (herbal mechanisms, by en large) do not require this. The immune system rids the body of invaders selectively, whereas direct killers kill 'em all.
Re. GSE as the only true herbal antibiotic:
***The garlic will not kill friendly probiotics in the digestive tract, whereas grapefruit seed extract will, requiring a follow-up with probiotic supplements in a similar way to mainstream abx, according to Buhner in his book Herbal Antibiotics. Garlic will not require such abx follow-up.***
Further, large amounts of garlic are required to do the job, he writes, whereas GSE requires very little to have the similarly broad-spectrum effect as garlic does.
See my post above, I did mention garlic previously as anti-microbial. But no big deal....
If used as enema for vermifuge purposes (to get rid of intestinal parasites), garlic should be used carefully, because too much may irritate the mucosal barriers (linings of organs, digestive tract, etc).
Too much in one meal may also induce vomiting, writes Buhner.
If used as enema, anybody else reading here should take note of Paul Pitchford (nutritionist) 's warning in his book Healing with Whole Foods, that parasites may at times migrate beyond the digestive tract to colonize other organs. Heart, lungs may be infected. So to douse the colon is only a start, where those infections may have migrated.
Not all such infections do migrate, fyi. So no needless fear, friends.
Re. the other herbs you mentioned, Lulu: All have very different mechanisms from each other. As a generalized statement, they mostly raise the body's own immune defenses to take care of infections by varying mechanisms, individual to each herb. But the essential oils in the plants almost universally are anti-microbial in some form, because they are secreted by the plants to protect themselves from invasion.
Example: Echinacea raises T cells, goldenseal works with mucosal barriers, ligustrum raises bone marrow reserves, etc....
There also are many more anti-microbial, antibiotic, antiviral and anti-amoebic herbs fyi, a long list of them...
In a similar way, the allicins in garlic will kill microbes on contact, even while the herb mostly works by raising immune defenses. It so happens that the garlic's allicins are more broad spectrum than the essential oils in most other plants, followed closely by GSE in terms of broad spectrum activity. (Allicin is not an essential oil, per se, fyi).
Lulu I realize that you are very knowledgeable. Do I recall your saying in a previous post that you have your nutritionist's degree? So cool.
It would be fun to swap info, I love that process. I love to learn, and would love to learn from you! :-)
I am wishing you the very best and everyone else here!
Sincerely, CI
ps garlic use tip:
Chopping the garlic and letting it stand for about 20 minutes prior to use, releases the active allicin constituents and renders it more potent as anti-biotic/-microbial/-viral.
The above information has not been evaluated by the FDA and is not intended to diagnose, prevent or cure any disease.
posted
I went gluten-free, and upped the doses on probiotics and systemic enzymes (Wobenzyme) a week before I started IV. I also started Parastroy. I was wiped out that week. Tired, and dumb.
But the gut seems to be responding. After three years I think the decline in gut function was slow enough that I did not notice. But I have noticed the improvement.
If you can handle four years of pain, you should be able to handle whatever Parastroy throws at you. Oh, and I have not "seen" a thing since I started. But I also do not poke as some do.
I have seen a change though in movement in general.
Hope this helps.
-------------------- enjoy the day.
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