Lymedin2010
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posted
This is something that many of us have felt, the sudden explosion of symptoms and the knowledge that multiple organisms are coursing our bodies.
As we have learned that chronic sickness is a concurrent infection of multiple species for many. How much more complicated can treatment get if any one of the 10,000 or so cohorts also exploded without much knowledge of appropriate treatment.
I've seen bacteria that we all carry in blood smears and wonder how beneficial are some of them. Can some of them prevent Lyme in any way? Can ABX have a negative influence on the plasma and body's natural flora (besides gut), providing the gateway to infection and chronic sickness? http://news.yahoo.com/10-000-germ-species-live-healthy-people-170516382.htmlPosts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
I think you have to find out what your major infections are and how to combat them.
I actually didn't know for 25 years what ailed me - all I had was a label, fibromyalgia. I met in groups with others with that same label.
Everyone was trying anything and everything to see what would help. And some things did. Those are the things, in retrospect, that treat Lyme and co-infections. I actually have a list of things that people found out that helped.
So that's my answer - either you shoot in the dark, like we did, to see what has an effect, or you can do some testing to hopefully find out more what you're dealing with, then with your doctor, plan treatment strategies to combat them. It can be done.
And there are some basic terrain health issues too, like it's better to eat really healthy foods, better to be more alkaline than acidic, better to not encourage candida, etc.
In answer to your antibiotics question, I think abx treatment can really help fight the bugs, since we're already infected! Also be sure to take some good probiotics.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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emla999/Lyme
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Lymedin2010 said:
quote: I've seen bacteria that we all carry in blood smears and wonder how beneficial are some of them. Can some of them prevent Lyme in any way? Can ABX have a negative influence on the plasma and body's natural flora (besides gut), providing the gateway to infection and chronic sickness?
emla999/Lyme
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posted
To me, that article said something very interesting......
"One surprise: It turns out that nearly everybody harbors low levels of some harmful types of bacteria, pathogens that are known for causing specific infections. But when a person is healthy � like the 242 U.S. adults who volunteered to be tested for the project � those bugs simply quietly coexist with benign or helpful microbes, perhaps kept in check by them."
"Why do the bad bugs harm some people and not others? What changes a person's microbial zoo that puts them at risk for diseases ranging from infections to irritable bowel syndrome to psoriasis?"
So, everybody is carrying harmful bacteria around inside of them but everybody is not getting sick from harboring that harmful bacteria.
I have always suspected this because I know people that have tested positive for a combination of Lyme, co-infections, toxic molds, heavy metals, mycotoxins and etc. but they seem to suffer no ill health effects from harboring those pathogens and toxins.
Why is this the case???!!!! What other factors are contributing to the seemingly different reaction by people to harboring harmful bacteria and toxins.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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nonna05
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Million dollar question.... Willing to recieve answer and treat...
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
Since everybody's different, maybe some people are more sensitive than others - pick things up easily and so there is more burden for the immune system.
I had amalgams in my baby teeth! Didn't have them removed until I was in my forties. Food allergies starting at 8, eczema starting at 14, always got sick easily,etc...
I admit - didn't have a great self-image growing up, either.
Had bad mold allergies before the Lyme, etc.
Maybe it's our karma????
Just a thought...
BTW:
My mother tested positive for Lyme and she's not sick.
Healer
[ 02-01-2013, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: sixgoofykids ]
Posts: 163 | From New Jersey | Registered: Oct 2009
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Lymedin2010
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posted
I have heard of people describing an "Event" leading to their chronic illness. �Prior to their event they may have had inconspicuous indicators, but nothing overwhelmingly indicative.
The more I had read over the weeks of becoming ill the more I was able to push back these indicators of infection. �I had mild headaches that grew more severe over the years, and other bell chimers a few years prior to the explosion. �
For some people the event has been surgery or stressful episodes. �For me it was after contracting a viral or bacterial infection from my daughter and wife. �They had become sick and I followed suite. �Within a week my body recouped but I felt very tired and different. �By week 2 the explosive event.
I am sure this was the struggle between overall immunity and infection overload. �At one point ones body becomes overwhelmed and opens up Pandoras Box.
The question is why did I not explode years before. �I was sick of various colds/flu like symptoms, stomach virus, deathly sick and slept 2 whole days after eating Vietnamese food, pneumonia and the likes.
I had eaten horribly and had super sugar overload, with all the carbs and sweets I had eaten. �I had been really overweight, stressed out of my mind, while being extremely sleep deprived (3-4hrs in 2 or 3 days at a time). �Surely if there was ever a time for this to take a foothold it would have been then.
If my immunity was so strong back then and my body was able to hold back for such a long period of time, then why have I gotten only sicker with ABX treatment? �Had the ABX suppressed my immunity further, decreased beneficial body flora and increased both Lyme related and "natural" bad flora?
Yes, the million dollar questions, but at least now we have some insight. �We know what questions to pursue rather than simply tacking on a label or symptom diagnosis.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Brussels
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posted
this article is very good, thanks for posting!
Why some people fall sick while others not?
It is the SAME question to "Why only killing is not enough?"
I've seen and so see people being bitten by the same nasty ticks that bit us, and really, they don't fall sick.
Once my Bb was active, I got not only all tick born coinfections causing me disease and very bad symptoms, but many other infections got activated. Bb went dormant, and most TICK BORN infections got dormant, and also PARALLEL infections.
Like night and day.
Bb is something to be seen like HIV.
But why is that some fall sick to Bb while others not?
The answer is not in the bug, it can't be.
I strongly suspect that the answers are solely in the MILIEU, the body that harbors these critters.
It is the BODY that needs treatment to get fully rid of infections, not the critters.
The critters will be with us.
Did you see the proportion of FOREIGN CELLS to OUR OWN CELLS in the article posted above?
There are 10 times MORE foreign cells in OUR BODIES than our own human cells!!!
Most of them help us, only a few species cause problems (that unfortunately can lead to death).
somehow the whole puzzle makes sense if you think that environmental polution + chemical polution + electrosmog polution + heavy metal polution + pschycological polution etc, all contribute to development of bad pathogens and disease.
It is not a surprise to discover that the most sick of us detox badly. No cleaning = not much chance of total recovery, in my opinion.
How many of us go backwards during a bad herx?
Drugs can't do the whole job, it is your immune system that must work.
How to balance these critters that are more numerous than our own cells in a 10 fold scale?
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Marnie
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It is quite amazing how our own immune system usually/normally protects us from the abundance of pathogens and harmful chemicals in our environment.
But sometimes, our immune system needs help because in order to INVADE, some pathogens trigger an immune response in us that HELPS *THEM* SURVIVE.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
There has been research on rheumatic fever, which results from strep infections for a small number of people, which showed a genetic predisposition. I believe that is key to why some get sick w/Lyme and co-infections and other things.
I also believe that autoimmunity is key for some proportion of those people, and I don't think anyone knows for sure whether the illness is from the infection, from autoimmunity with continuing infection, or autoimmunity that continues even when the infection is eradicated.
I was on antibiotics for 6 years. I had some improvement in the first year, but then I got much sicker, sometimes very, very sick. My doctor convinced me that this was due to Lyme herxes, and that I was making progress.
Eventually an integrative medicine doctor helped me get off (two rough weeks of withdrawal) and for the last few years I feel I have improved steadily- off meds. But am left with a lot of gut issues, food reactions and allergies.
I do have positive lupus tests. I don't care about labels, but antibiotics can aggravate autoimmunity, whatever you want to call it, and I believe that can happen to some during treatment.
In any case, antibiotics are like chemotherapy. They kill the good with the bad. It is a risk/benefit decision. I wish I could go back and only do them for 18 months, and have longer to heal from the treatment as well as the disease.
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Carol in PA
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Almost everyone here advises the newbies to run to an LLMD. Most of those people get lots of antiobiotics, but few of them feel better.
It can take years of going through stuff for people to realize the things discussed in this post.
It's too bad that the newbies will not be reading all of this, or if they read it, they won't understand it. So they'll just skip it.
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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Catgirl
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posted
Fascinating article!
-------------------- --Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together). Posts: 5418 | From earth | Registered: Mar 2011
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posted
I think one of the factors to falling ill, is immune suppression. I think for myself living in a moldy house (didn't know it was moldy) and I don't detox mold well.
I am feeling better from tons of antibiotics, I know it has messed with my gut flora. But to me it is better than the alternative. I was disabled from Lyme and now I pretty much have my life back.
I don't know if I'll be able to stay well off antibiotics, but here's the thing, I would rather be on abx for the rest of my life than live the way I was living when I was first diagnosed.
Posts: 845 | From Northeast | Registered: May 2011
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Marnie
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The euphoria over antibiotics can be strong.
But we should not let it overpower our logic and push us to overuse medications that can have lasting side-effects especially when taken ongoing.
There is a HUGE mind-gut connection. We HAVE to have a healthy gut to make and absorb the nutrients we need to make our neurotransmitters, to make our defense cells (keep our immunity up), etc.
It is not immune suppression...it is antigen (protein) overload exposure.
Here are some dangers of long term use of abx.:
Increased resistance to antibiotics
Diarrhea and digestive problems
Reduction in beneficial phytoestrogens
***Impaired immunity***, especially in children
and the critically ill
Long-term changes in gut microflora
One study showed that not only did the microflorarl biodiversity of patients in the intensive care unit significantly decrease with antibiotics, but there were also
more organ failures and deaths in patients given antibiotics.
Until recently, the effect of antibiotics was thought to be temporary.
As long as you took your prebiotics at least 3 hours after your antibiotics, you'd be fine.
Any long-term changes in intestinal microflora were considered to last only a few months, after which everything would return to normal.
Unfortunately, some new studies have begun to show that this is not necessarily the case.
A study funded by the Finnish Academy found that the earlier estimates were too conservative, and that the effects of antibiotics on intestinal bacteria were visible even after a year.
Surprisingly, they also discovered that using one type of antibiotic (such as penicillin or tetracycline)
increases the resistance of bacteria to other types of antibiotics as well.
The old idea of switching to a different antibiotic to avoid resistance doesn't seem so good after all.
A study from last year confirms these findings. Using a novel method of observing the human gut microbiota, the authors found that antibiotic treatment "influenced the abundance of
about a third of the bacterial taxa in the gut,
decreasing the taxonomic richness, diversity, and evenness of the community".
While the conditions partly returned to normal after four weeks, several bacterial taxa failed to recover even after six months.
The question is...are abx. making you well (destroying the pathogen) or masking the infection by altering the symptoms?
Abx. are intended to get to the ROOT of the problem...to DESTROY/help the body destroy a harmful pathogen (COMPLETELY)- not merely to treat the symptoms.
I suspect CWD (cell wall deficient) Bb is at the bottom of the ongoing "autoimmune" response...much like viral proteins triggering a response.
I think we are constantly trying to destroy Bb's cell walls, but this leaves CWD Bb (who is capable of rebuilding "his" cell walls when conditions are favorable.
I suspect Bb wasn't/isn't effectively completely "finished off".
I suspect hyperbaric treatments ("dives" - 40+) help to destroy CWD Bb. Unfortunately that treatment is not "approved" nor covered for lyme treatment and is very expensive.
IN combination with things to prevent Bb's cell wall from forming and probiotics...we may have a chance for restoring our health.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Lymedin2010
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posted
Without ABX I would have been disabled as well and wouldn't have been able to make these posts. They had brought me from the lowest of low.
I think that Dr H has it right and that you have to treat with multiple ABX (and herbs) in order to bring the various organisms down. If you treat with 1-2 ABX, you run the risk of anyone of the let's say 5-6 (or more) TBD's that can blossom. You run the risk of your normal healthy and/or unhealthy load to overtake and disrupt what was once homeostasis.
If anyone of the bugs is allowed to spread, it makes it easier for others to do so as well. In this respect it is dangerous to under treat, aside from the dangers of allowing it to spread untreated at all and the dangers of long term ABX usage.
If there are TBD's involved AND we consider that we are natural carriers of critters, the treatment paradigm becomes that much more complex.
Posts: 2087 | From NY | Registered: Oct 2011
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Marnie
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Mulitple abx. post op, put my dad in toxic hepatitis.
Our liver, our major "detox" organ ALREADY takes a hit in lyme.
An infection followed up one week later with an appendectomy and subsequent abx. -> my son's nearly "sterile" bowel = SEVERE depression - neurotransmitters plummeted, weight loss, passing undigested food, vomiting.
It took us a LONG time to restore the health of his gut (and mental outlook).
There is a very real danger to multiple abx. taken ongoing.
The problem with abx. is that
***they destroy the good along with the bad.***
Not unlike our own body which triggers the inflammatory cytokines to cleave (chop up) Bb's proteins, but in doing so, cleave some of our own beneficial proteins too such as the precursor protein to the vitamin D binding protein needed for our macrophages.
Three YEARS of nonstop abx. and a ton of supplements (following Dr. B's recommendations), did not CURE my sis's lyme. She did them ALL - including the "big guns" (IV).
WHY abx. did not cure my sis' lyme has been the driving factor to my ongoing research because I wanted to know WHY abx.(et al) failed to CURE her. Coming from a medical background, I did not understand why they didn't work.
I have a much better understanding now.
Bb is an incredibly complex pathogen and is as bad as HIV, IMO. Not as fast a progression or as easily transmitted between persons (perhaps), but as devastating as HIV/other "autoimmune" diseases...ultimately.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Thought you all might be interested in this article I just was sent - there ARE brilliant scientists out there trying to figure it out and I admire the path they are blazing,
We ARE "microbe hotels"!
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Brussels
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�I would like to lose the language of warfare,� said Julie Segre, a senior investigator at the National Human Genome Research Institute. �It does a disservice to all the bacteria that have co-evolved with us and are maintaining the health of our bodies.�
This new approach to health is known as medical ecology.
----------- 5,000 different critters may inhabit the human MOUTH, alone!
Did we evolute with them or they are our enemies?
the article is clear: they co-evolved with us! The great majority of them helps sustain our lives!
Without two bacteria merging together, we wouldn't have even cells as they are originally composed of at least 2 bacteria who merged together. The mitochondria was the 'invader'. Without mitochondria, there wouldn't be evolved multicelular beings.
Bacteria are our family and our ANCESTORS.
We are here because of them.
Killing is IMPORTANT for all of us suffering from infectious diseases. We need to help the body back to balance of the microbioma.
I did use loads of different methods to killing and try to balance my milieu.
I just didn't use the most indiscriminate method (meaning, abx). I used gentler and more efficient things, like herbs and homeopathy. They do not kill indiscriminately. For that only reason, they are more efficient long term, I have no doubt about that.
I know that to keep lyme in remission for long, there is only one weapon: OUR OWN BODIES. It is our immune system that shall maintain the balance, not drugs.
I'm off medications, killer herbs, even homeopathics for lyme for more than 3 years now. I know I can still relapse or as I get often bitten, fall sick again. But so far, 3 years off lyme, is like a dream for me.
If you are new, you go just killing, thinking it is like taking dust out of the house. But if you want to really heal, you cooperate with the microbioma, you respect it and give it credit for helping you live!
I try cleaning my body, I try to correct its allergic tendency (at least for my daughter), giving it the right nutrition, sunlight, physical exercise, peace, music, treatment. It's a bit like making my body a better place for my microbioma.
Abx is not friendly to the microbioma as it is a dumb treatment. It acts on a single direction, very blind to the body.
C. diff. is known to be bad and to infect some people seriously after abx. A very hard infection to fight.
Plants are much more intelligent as treatment, as they contain hundreds if not thousands of chemical components.
These components have a function, plants evoluted with animals and they do balance the side effects! Read some of Buhner's books to understand how a plant heals. It is a fantastic thing to imagine how we all evoluted together and the ecologic and medical function of the plants in regards to us and other animals!
Now that I don't have to kill often, that is what I try to do, give chance for my body to be a better place so that my immune system and my bacteria or genetic material that floats (viruses or whatever you call them) to be happier and help me continue living.
Like giving the OTHER hundreds of thousands of critters a better place to live so that they help me out of imbalance. So that my immune system and THEY help me keep my lyme disease dormant, as it is now.
the killing is important, but I suspect it is about 10% of the job. The rest you got to concentrate on your treatment is much larger and of a different nature than killing. And I would choose intelligent killing to dumb killing, if I could. Dumb killing kills the good and the bad.
It is more like re-building, cleaning, taking the load off, whatever the load is. So that your body can become stronger and do the right things on its own, without drugs or treatments (digest, move, think, work etc).
Some people think naively that their abx will keep them stable forever. Don't forget that the critters are intelligent and they mutate, and that the microbioma changes, very fast.
A new tick bite can be a big earthquake and tsunami. Even without new tickbites, infections are never the same.
Do you really think that abx-forever will keep things stable forever? In a body that's got trillions of foreign cells in constant change and mutations?
I wouldn't be that optimistic.
We even have the slightest idea what most of these foreign critters doing in our bodies. And what happens when we kill them indiscriminately?
------ The article is very good and it makes us think about who we really are!
We are certainly more THEM than us!!!!
thank you for posting!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Marine.. So sorry that happened to your dad. I totally do not agree with over use of abx. I'm sure many will sand blast me here, but I've heard from many that might have knocked down the Lyme and other infections only to end up with greater issues down the road as a result of to many antibiotics. These people that will take any thing and don't care.. Really are playing with fire. I guess they will have to see if they get burned. Completely my own opinion here. Anything past a year to me is just plain bad. And a year is even to long.
Posts: 267 | From South | Registered: Oct 2011
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annxyzz
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I can EASILY see why someone would want to stay on drugs if they see a benefit and begin to feel better ! Unfortunately , after 3 years of ABX I was pain free but still REALLY sick . I also feared a superinfection or resistance , along with possible kidney damage . I had chronic kidney/ bladder problems that prevented continuing .
There is no clear answer and as Buhner says "with lyme EVERYTHING is experimental ".
-------------------- annxyzz Posts: 1178 | From East Texas | Registered: May 2009
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posted
Ann, I'm sure that's why most do and in a way I really understand that. Too bad there are no clear cut answers for this disease. That's the darn hard part. I don't know? I'd just use caution with antibiotics. Some seem so hard core and that just can't be good. If your on the darn drugs for over 18 plus months and relapse when you stop, something is just not right. Confusing. Oh and for those who say they have their life back while on abx.. That's just jot true. You don't have your life back until you are off abx and pretty well symptom free.
Posts: 267 | From South | Registered: Oct 2011
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Marnie
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Member # 773
posted
Both OspA and OspB are expressed by B. burgdorferi in infected unfed ticks.
It is our OWN *antibody* to Bb's OspB that is a major problem. It is damaged.
If we could only help (HEAL) our OWN antibodies to Bb!
Repost:
Characterization of the
physiological requirements
for the bactericidal effects of a monoclonal antibody to OspB of Borrelia burgdorferi
by confocal microscopy.
The bactericidal effect of Fab-CB2 is not dependent on the induction of spirochetal proteases but
is dependent on the presence of Ca2+ and Mg2+.
Supplementation of Ca2(+)- and Mg2(+)-free medium with these cations
***restored the bactericidal effects of Fab-CB2.***
The mechanism by which a Fab fragment of an antibody destroys a bacterium directly may represent a novel form of antibody-organism interaction.
PMID: 9125579
Mg levels DIVE at the VERY outset of lyme because Bb triggers what is called "mitochondrial uncoupling". The mitochondria are our cells "powerhouses".
The infected cells make a LOT less ATP and ATP is linked to Mg as
Mg-ATP.
Something called "oxidative phosphorylation" is switched off (normally we make a LOT more ATP in the mitochondria...about 36 ATP...via oxidative phosphorylation that happens in the mitochondria - powerhouses of our cells).
We make too little ATP in the cytoplasm of our cells i.e., glycolysis = about 2 ATP.
Getting ATP levels back up in the infected cells may drive Mg back into the cells where it will combine with ATP once again as Mg-ATP.
That has been the goal...getting the levels of ATP back up (esp. in the infected cells!)...via DNP (tried in Italy), Photon therapy and caprylic acid (in the AD "medicinal food" called Axona).
Our OWN defense cells are unable to work - do their jobs (neutrophils, macrophages primarily) AND our own antibody - which is highly targeted - to Bb's OspB is also "wounded".
Yes. we need a very highly targeted treatment.
Ideally, it would be our OWN antibodies.
Review for newbies:
A few years ago, Romanian doctors cured lyme - early onset - in just 2 patients this way:
1. They restored the levels of Mg by giving a LOT of Mg (likely MgCl) IV
AND
2. Gave IV abx.
They not only targeted the pathogen with the IV abx. (which does also alter the immune response also), but Mg is an
Anti-inflammatory Anti-histamine Inhibits HMG CoA reductase (Bb follows the "chloesterol pathway" to build "his" cell walls.)
It appears critical that reducing inflammation is a big part as well as preventing a "histamine response" and inhibiting HMG CoA reductase - to healing.
I think Bb is relying on our inflammatory response to invade.
This is not unusual. Many viruses count on our histamine response to help THEM invade.
Brussels, you are very wise and I admire and respect your point of view.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
I don't know how I missed your above post Brussels, but very very well said especially this:
'Abx is not friendly to the microbioma as it is a dumb treatment. It acts on a single direction, very blind to the body."
And this: "Do you really think that abx-forever will keep things stable forever? In a body that's got trillions of foreign cells in constant change and mutations?"
I wouldn't be that optimistic.
All so true.
Posts: 267 | From South | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
I have my life back because of the holistic treatment that my llmd has prescribed. Part of that treatment, not all of it, but part of it has been abx - many different forms.
The treatment team understands that abx are only part of the solution. For me, I believe in the use of abx - it has given me my life back and I am weening off of them now.
I am focused now on really boosting my immune system - my intuition tells me that the key will be to have as healthy of an immune system as possible.
I believe I became sick because of the perfect storm: childhood abuse/trauma held in my body, malnourished as a child, toxins in the environment then exposed to lyme and co's. In order to heal, I have to balance mind, body, spirit and emotion. I have to continue healing childhood trauma, too.
I agree with pp: I would rather live on abx the rest of my life and have a shorter life than continue suffering and simply existing basically like a vegetable for a longer life. I don't think my life has actually been shortened, though. I believe that like the "tick slayer" I will end up the healthiest I've ever been!
Newbies, dont' be afraid to consult with the best llmd you can find. And, listen to your gut instincts.
-------------------- PHOENIX: mythical bird that rises from the ashes July '09 got sick very quickly could barely get out of bed - ND diag lymes.. and the journey began bite: unkown - no rash Posts: 248 | From private | Registered: Jul 2010
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Lymedin2010
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Well, I can definitely confirm that everyone's blood that I've seen thus far (about 12 people or so) have bacteria floating around.
Many of them we all have in common and certain ones appear pleomorphic and I've seen various forms, shapes, and movement speeds. Some of the same kind are sluggish , while others are violently thrashing.
I've never heard of forms changing species and this is very interesting, perhaps warranting further investigation?
posted
Supergirl.. I can tell you this. I Believe I got to 100 % when my attitude changed. I did not not research every new Lyme treatment, instead I got back out there and started living again. I pushed through the pain and kept moving. Pretty sure that was 90 % of my recovery right there. The mind body connection is huge. Attitude makes a big diffrence.I would agree that a certain degree of antibiotics may be required, but I will still stand strong in my belief that long term use and many differnet combos only make a person more of a toxic mess. The people I worry about are the ones that are still taking them and say they have their life back. That's like saying .. I've mastered my anxiety but still take klonipin. Its bs. If one has mastered Lyme and its friends they are not using antibiotics still daily. I'm Leary of people like that.. Sounds like denial to me.
Posts: 267 | From South | Registered: Oct 2011
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I think you are not respecting the fact that each of us has our own unique road to recovery. you speak as if you can determine for other people what will work for them. the only recovery that you have say in is your own.
each one of us is unique and i for one respect each individual's choices regarding what works best for them. we have gazillions of people on this board who are in remission and who acknowledge that abx played a big role in making their recovery happen.
I suggest that you worry about yourself rather than judging the choices that others are making in their recovery.
you sound a lot like the doctors and insurance companies who are attempting to undermine sick lyme patients from getting the abx that they need to stay alive and heal. and I find that very intriguing
-------------------- PHOENIX: mythical bird that rises from the ashes July '09 got sick very quickly could barely get out of bed - ND diag lymes.. and the journey began bite: unkown - no rash Posts: 248 | From private | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
and, I want to say again for any newbies or others considering abx treatment, I was DEATHLY ill 3 years ago. I've taken numerous and various abx and I am almost fully recovered now.
I have had absolutely NO ADVERSE SIDE EFFECTS and my blood tests have always come back normal throughout the treatment. I would not be alive today without the abx and other supplements that I took. It's my mind that understood that I needed that treatment.
-------------------- PHOENIX: mythical bird that rises from the ashes July '09 got sick very quickly could barely get out of bed - ND diag lymes.. and the journey began bite: unkown - no rash Posts: 248 | From private | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Super.. Sorry you feel that way. But this thread had many points made about the Ill affects of antibiotics. I felt the need to state my opinion. I don't need to worry about my own treatment I no longer have Lyme. I fought it and won. VERY thankful. True that everyone has their own situation.. You sound so angry. I hope you get well soon.
Posts: 267 | From South | Registered: Oct 2011
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posted
It's not about warfare, it's about balance.
I read a book recently in which the author claimed that somewhere in the mid 1970's some great change occurred that resulted in general ill health for a large part of the population. He presents this as an opinion, and I am not sure if it is true, but I remember in the Spring of 1974 or 1975 that I didn't feel like I usually felt in the Spring.
One thing that I know changed was the soft drink industry, transitioning from using cane sugar as a sweetener, to high fructose corn syrup. The production of this hfcs involves mercury, or so I've read, and I've also read that mercury has been detected in hfcs.
It was a relatively short time after this transition that the first Borrelia infections were noticed and named Lyme disease. Granted, the transition from cane sugar to hfcs isn't the only thing that happened in the seventies. And, in the early 80's, the medical establishment increased the number of recommended childhood vaccinations (many of which had thimerosol as a preservative in them) and became more vigilant about following those schedules. Nutrasweet was also approved (under dubious circumstances, Donald Rumsfeld) as a sugar substitute.
Another change? The promotion of sun avoidance and sunscreen. Cancers of many types increase as you move away from equatorial regions, just as cases of MS. Many or most dermatologists refuse to move from this fear based sun avoidance position. All I know is I feel much better overall when I get lots of sun, and I have completely abandoned sunscreen as a way to avoid sunburn.
I am not a conspiracy theorist, I don't believe there is one person or group of people at the top who are trying to make the population ill, I just think that a great deal of this is driven by the profit motive, and some people are profiting way more than others.
discuss.
[ 06-29-2012, 10:16 AM: Message edited by: docluddite ]
Posts: 60 | From Maine | Registered: Jan 2012
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nonna05
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 33557
posted
I'll read ,but goes with saliva/contagious and what people think
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I am new to understanding Lyme, and am still figuring out how best to approach treatment.
But docluddites above posts brings up something very important....and that is what we eat.
Allergies to food have been a big issue for me, not the hives or anaphylaxis kind. The kind that are more silent and subtle. This cause me to get serious about the food we eat, and just why food has become so dangerous.
I think understanding the dangers of seemingly harmless food is vital to recovering successfully from Lyme. If our bodies are already so taxed trying to deal with Lyme nealrotoxins, we should not be adding to these kind of strains by adding on more stuff that is incredibly difficult for the body to process.
Number one on the list is GMO's if you have ever eaten corn syrup or anything that contains it. Then you have eaten genetically modified food, how about non-organic veggies...yup more GMO'S foods. What about soy...80% of the soy in the US and 90% of the corn is genetically modified. That means that the basic protein structures of the organism are altered, packed with antibiotics, so that they are more resistant to bugs, this of course is then passed to people when the eat it. Allergies are a reaction to the protein, well if we are changing the organic protein structure of a plant wouldn't it make sense that our bodies are more likely to recognize it as a foreign invader. I'm just saying.
Then there is dairy products.....it's this simple.....think of these two questions.......what other animal on earth drinks milk past infancy? What other animal on earth relies on another animals milk for survival?......NONE! That's right none....contrary to popular belief milk is not neccary for survival. It's actually down right damaging.....especially when you think about all the growth hormones they add....or how terrible the conditions are, all those germs and diseases they carry, are passed right on to people.
Refined sugar, caffeine, chemicals from processed foods not one of those things is going to help a single one of us re o ER from lyme.
Perhaps if we had no other issues in our bodies we could handle the onslaught of all this crap on our bodies. But our bodies are already so stressed out the best thing we can do for them is to food them properly.
In my opinion you should eat only fruits, veggies, lentils, whole grains, and water....if it can't be grown and it isn't organic....it's too much for your body to handle.
If you are not cutting out animal products ( even meats are incredibly taxing on our digestive organs), processed foods, and refined sugars from your diet 100% then you are not doing everything you can for your body to heal.
Don't take my word for it of course, do ur own research.
Posts: 54 | From Central, MA | Registered: May 2012
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