Catgirl
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What's really fascinating here is that in 3 months gene expression changes in over 500 genes (turns on the ones that protect against disease) AND, it has been associated with increasing telomere length (Dr Oz talks about this on his show--google)!
It does require moderate exercise, but I can do that with weight lifting.
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sparkle7
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Thanks. It's always been of interest to me to study diet. It a very complicated subject. I used to be more influenced by ideas in diet but I guess I just got to the point of not worring about it too much. There are alot of varying factors, individual genetics, trends & fads in the concept of diet.
Each year there seems to be some focus on demonizing particular foods that are "bad". I'm generally moderate but I can see why it would be an issue for people who eat poorly (ie: alot of junk food, fast food, processed foods, etc.).
I can usually find some contrasting evidence of the opposite when it cames to broad statements. I found this today for example -
NIH study finds calorie restriction does not affect survival
I don't know if there's one answer to all of this. I was a vegetarian for many years. I don't know if it helped my health or not. I still got CFS & whatever else it is that has been bothering me for the last 15 years.
It's good to know what the current trends are & to explore the ideas. We each have to try to find what's best for us as individuals.
When one is traveling or working, it's not always easy to find pure, non-GMO organic food. What do we do then? Fast until we can make our own food? If one buys food prepared in a store or restaurant, how do you know what it is, what was put in it, or if it was washed properly?
Unless you spend all day shopping, cooking, cleaning - or have a personal chef - it's not easy to eat the "optimal" diet. I tried it once for aout 6 months - I was spending about 4-6 hours a day shopping, juicing & cooking & cleaning. It didn't cure my illness or make me feel alot different, so I stopped.
Maybe in the case of cancer if you did the Gerson therapy, it might help? It's hard to say.
Thanks for posting! It's always something to think about.
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Catgirl
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I'm just thrilled to hear about how it changes gene expression in just 3 mos. I also didn't know we could increase telomere length (bonus).
Dr. Oz just had Joel Fuhrman on (Eat to Live) his show. One woman had terrible migraines. She changed her diet by following what Furhman said and they're gone.
I went vegan once (pre my last tick bite--one of many) and felt better. And when I cut out sugar, I had more energy.
I'm just amazed that I actually have the power to change the way I feel, especially having lyme and company. I'm already doing this diet/exercise (mostly vegan) and I feel better. I'm also doing low fat. My pain is gone.
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timaca
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My diet has always been very healthy (my training is in nutrition and I worked as a registered dietitian for a number of years).
I got sick anyway, in spite of my very healthy diet.
I decided to go even more healthy...essentially vegan with some fish. No added sugar or junk food of any kind. And I'm juicing.
It has not improved my health.
I certainly think that diet plays a huge role in our health (in general). Americans have a horrible diet (in general) and are reaping the consequences of their choices with diabetes, heart disease, obesity, etc.
I do believe people should eat as healthfully as they can to optimize their health. And I'm still trying to do that.
But, the fact remains (for me) that even a very, very, very healthy diet has not helped me to get well.
Best, Timaca
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nefferdun
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That is a great article with lots of studies to support what he is saying. Thanks for posting it cat girl. It seems like common sense but a lot of people will fight it because meat and refined food is so addictive.
It is very promising that you can change gene expression and increase telomere length. I am sending this to my son to read as he is one of those people that needs scientific proof of everything.
As for the Gerson therapy, it may work for some but certainly not all. 90% of people who have had methyl cycle testing have the CBS mutation which makes it difficult to process sulfur. The Gerson therapy relies on juicing vegetables high in sulfur like kale, spinach and cabbage.
If you have the CBS mutation, that would make you sicker. It would create more sulfates, sulfites and ammonia. It would decrease nitric oxide and neurotransmitters. Meat, eggs and cheese are also extremely high in sulfur. Science is finally telling us why we need what we need; it is an individualized approach to medicine.
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nefferdun
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This led me on a journey this morning. I found Ornish, the doctor who wrote this article and then his online site complete with a recipe forum. Eggplant parmesan (without fat) for dinner tonight!
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sparkle7
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I guess it depends on whether one has the CBS mutation. Not everyone does...
From what I read, some people did well with the Gerson protocol. I thnk it depends on the individual. I actually felt better when I started eating meat, chicken & fish.
When I was a vegetarian, maybe I was not eating the "correct" foods. It's hard to say. I did eat soy, eggs & dairy. I don't recall if I ate any eggs or dairy when I was doing the specific juicing & heathy food diet that was recommended by a particular doctor.
From what I read, the CBS mutation is present in specific genetic types. I'm not of that ancestry. I guess I'd have to get tested to know for sure.
I don't know if the CBS mutation diet is the same as the diet recommended by Dr. Ornish. I just know that I actually felt better when I added meat, chicken & fish to my diet after being a vegetarian for over 15 years.
I'm not addicted to meat or sugar. If it was better for my helath to stop eating them, I would. I just haven't noticed a big difference between not eating meat & sugar & eating it. Maybe some for some people, it makes more of a difference?
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I experimented with a full fledged vegan bodybuilding diet for 7 full months and it did absolutely nothing for my inflammation.
I had more success on Dr. D`Adamo`s Genotype diet, where I ate and still do eat red meat about 5x per week.
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Keebler
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- Some may do well but, after adhering to it for years, I had a very bad time with a vegetarian diet. It did nothing to relieve inflammation for me - but, then, that's because lyme had not yet been dx.
Still, I really needed fish, meat, eggs. However, it makes a huge difference
WHERE we get those. GRASS FED beef & bison, WILD Fish, Eggs from hens who are not stuffed in cages or even cage-free but stuffed in a barn all day, no room to move.
No "factory animals" fuel my body. After quite some "testing" there is a huge difference between those raised as nature intended and those in "factory" settings. So different in so many regards.
I can't afford as much (although the price is within reason, all things considered) but since it's better quality I do fine with eggs 5 days a week and one meat or fish meal a day 5-6 days a week and with good veggie protein all around that. -
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quote:Originally posted by Keebler: - Some may do well but, after adhering to it for years, I had a very bad time with a vegetarian diet. I really needed fish, meat, eggs. However, it makes a huge difference
WHERE we get those. GRASS FED beef & bison, WILD Fish, Eggs from hens who are not stuffed in cages or even cage-free but stuffed in a barn all day, no room to move.
No factory animals have been tortured to fuel my body. I can't afford as much but since it's better quality I do fine with eggs 5 days a week and one meat or fish meal a day 5-6 days a week and with good veggie protein all around that. -
Right on Keebler. My red meat is always organic grass fed, my eggs always organic free range and I eat a half pound of Cod(deep water fish) almost every night. My only other protein source is pure egg white protein which I get in bulk from a farm in Indiana.
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Keebler
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THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTIONS
Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148
- by Anura V. Kurpad
Fifteen pages of text.
Excerpt from abstract on page one:
. . . In general, the amount of extra protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . . -
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Keebler
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- TAURINE - MUST be supplemented by anyone on a vegetarian or vegan diet. If it is not, eye damage, even blindness, could be a result.
Never put a cat on a vegan or vegetarian diet as they require meat/fish. But, if for some reason they don't get it, taurine must be given to them or they can go blind.
Human livers make a little of this, a little may be in other foods, but we really need much more to protect our bodies.
Cats make zero in their own bodies. Without taurine, blindness is very likely.
For us, CLA, too, must be supplemented - and also by those eating factory beef as it's void from that.
CLA is found most abundantly in naturally raised beef & bison (maybe in fish, too, but I forget).
L-CARNITINE may also need to be supplemented. -
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Keebler
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- While there are good and brilliant doctors who say we NEED fish/eggs/meat there are also good and brilliant doctors who say we do not.
Those of both minds offer seemingly good reason for their stance.
It is important to read what they all say and then weigh it, question it. Find the essentials that apply to us. What can we learn from everyone?
But we must also consider all the VARIABLES both in studies and in our circumstances.
In some "before-after" tests, the "before" may have included meats not from the best sources. So dropping those would be good for anyone.
Even fish and meats wrapped in plastic wrap can make a difference (best to avoid plastic, but that's hard even in the most "wild" meats. Yesterday, from a natural foods store, my grass fed beef stew chunks were put in a plastic bag, then butcher paper). Other meat was not, though.
So, if all the meat someone gets is wrapped in plastic, that can have effects that may be confusing with "before-after" measurements.
And, there may not have been enough plants in a test person's diet. Just increasing plant nutrients is usually a good step for anyone.
Body types can be different, too, although the "eat right for your blood type" failed me in the meat dept. I'm not supposed to need meat, but I do. I do.
Still, I know some folks who do well without meat but it's not just avoiding that works - they are very careful as to how to make it work.
And their bodies are not like mine. There is no size fits all (other than that bad food sources are not good for anyone).
I can't adequately say what I would like to here but will just add this.
Those with a seizures may REQUIRE some great quality animal fat. Yes, require it.
As someone in that category, it helps me tremendously. Plant fat is all well and good but it just does not have everything my brain seems to need in the fat department.
Not all animal fat is bad, by the way. It's all about WILD vs. FACTORY raised . . . how it's processed and even if not processed, how prepared.
Food additives in some meat dishes can also explain a lot of the bad effects.
Just say "no" to all food additives.
Go for clean and true food, delicious garden herbs and aromatic spices. Sea salt. Good peppers.
Remember that fat is not a bad word. Protein, carbohydrate, fat. The 3 food groups that fuel us. We need them all.
And we will likely be exploring for a long time just how to let them all work in balance, for EACH of us. -
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Keebler
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- See the MEAT GLUE post here (and the "Pink Slime").
Both are used in a lot of meat offerings and we are not even told. Another reason to know the butcher and buy only the best sourced:
Cattle being fed CANDY, literally, to make up for lake of corn (which they should not be eating to begin with).
Also see the GMO ROULETTE link. The film details what happens to animals when they eat GMO foods - and then what happens to us.
Back to the "before-after" tests for diets with meat vs. vegan diets, again it may not be the difference so much in meat or not but when avoiding GMO meat (rather animals fed GMO diet), things improve for us humans. -
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Keebler
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- Promise this is the last one. I get so excited by all the good stuff here I just can't stop.
Using LOTS of veggies and also animal nutrition: see WAHLS' work.
I highly recommend Terry Wahls, MD book and suggestions for cellular repair.
Thanks to HALEY for bringing this to our attention. ----------
Repair Damaged Mitochondria and Reduce Fatigue Up to 45%
- by Karen Lee Richards, August 6, 2010 -
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sparkle7
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I agree, Keebler, timaca, & NJFitnessGuy. I don't think there's a one size fits all diet. I also think "scientific" studies can be skewed to get specific results. If someone gets funded for studying a particular subject - they aren't going to find that what they are studying is invalid.
I think that humans are very adaptable in regards to diet. Some regions eat an abundance of what is available in their environment...
Eskimos didn't eat alot of veggetables, yet they thrived in their environment. It probably wasn't until they started eating the standard American diet or other concepts in diet that they became ill or overweight. Same is true for all kinds of places - Lapland, Iceland, parts of Africa, the South Pacific...
I think the Masaii thrive on alot of meat (& blood) from cattle. I don't know if they are eating alot of veggies & grains. How about the French Paradox? Some areas of Japan had very long longevity - probably not since Fukishima, though.
Back in the 70's & 80's the Macrobiotic diet had alot of proponents. I rarely hear about it now. It had some good ideas & concepts.
It is a complex subject & takes alot of thought. If one particular diet is good for someone - that's great. It may not be good for everyone. There are differences in age, genetics, body types, exposure to toxins, activity levels, allergies, illness, etc.
I think it's a good idea to try to eat "real food" as opposed to chemicals & genetically modified stuff. It's just getting more expensive & harder to obtain.
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Keebler
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- Eskimos' history is fascinating. Glad Sparkle mentions that for several reasons.
One thing I had not considered until recently that, during the short summer, they were worker-bees to gather as many plants, berries & roots as possible to enjoy then -- and dry & preserve for use throughout the year.
Roots helped them a great deal supply key nutrients. Some of the plants' healing properties also helped. They could make important teas from twigs, etc.
They also knew how to find moss, some roots and other plants, even in the snow. That I found amazing. The tundra was not always as frozen solid everywhere as we might think. Snow cover could help insulate some plants for their use. -
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timaca
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Sparkle7, Keebler and others~ I've thought about the Gerson diet (which is helping the boss of a friend of mine--he has cancer); and I think of the Wahl's diet (which has helped Terry Wahl's and a few others) and I wonder....what is the common denominator. And that seems to be LOTS of fruits and vegetables.
So, I am trying to eat even more of those than I was, and trying to juice too. (Today my juice had spinach, tomato, carrots, blackberries, apple and lettuce).
I am doing what I can to try to make my immune system as healthy as it can be. And I am praying for more direction....
It would be nice to get well, wouldn't it?
Best, Timaca
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Keebler
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- Timaca,
My heart goes out to you. You do so much great research on various stealth infections and treatments - explored so many paths - done some very hard work over time - and so deserve to get well, indeed. Beyond just "well" even, I'd say.
Just wanted to say that - to you - to all of us.
Your posts have helped me get tested for several other stealth infections (several positive such as Cpn, HHV-6, etc.).
Even if I can't obtain professional medical treatment for anything, by knowing more . . .
I've come to be kinder to myself and much more understanding about what my body much manage. And that is empowering, even just the knowledge; even if I have not conquered it all yet.
Back to what you pointed out:
The COMMON DENOMINATOR - good ferreting that out. The term eluded me.
I do think you are spot on there. Not just the antioxidants from then as the the WHOLE foods are so important. More color, more texture, more variety, the better.
HEMP protein powder in with your juices might be of help. I do not like the texture of it but it's just so excellent in so many ways.
I have to wonder about so many avoiding fruits. I do think we may be avoiding too many and I've come to disagree with that advice from the anti-candida diets.
I think there are ways to get good fruits that will not feed candida. Mixing with veggies, with a balance of protein and fat, seems to work very well for me.
While I've not been on abx in a very long time (had to find other ways) . . . the last few times when on abx, what kept candida away? OLE was nearly a miracle for me with that.
OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT - LINKS -
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timaca
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Keebler~ You are a gem.
Timaca
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nefferdun
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There is no regional ancestry link with the CBS mutation. Dr. Roberts, who is a heart surgeon and not an LLMD, says 90% of his patients have at least one copy of it.
Sparkle, were you eating processed and refined food when you were a vegetarian or nothing but whole foods including whole grains, legumes, fresh vegetables and fruits? If you were eating a healthy variety of foods in such a way as to supply complete proteins, it does not make sense to me that you did poorly on it.
You don't just eliminate meat, substituting pizza, mac and cheese, omelets and such. The dairy should be very minimal. The eggs are full of sulfur so even if you eat nothing but the whites - you should rarely have them.
As most of us with chronic disease do have the CBS/BHMT mutations, then you should pay attention to what happens when you have it. If you have it, sometimes you will notice you cannot tolerate such things as MSM or wine.
If you have it, the meat you eat is overproducing ammonia which your body cannot clear. You are depleting the molecule (BH4) that is used to clear the ammonia which is also used to generate neurotransmitters and nitric oxide. You are also not producing enough glutathione. You will have a lot of heavy metals. This is not a fad diet. It is science.
Then there is protomyxzoa which thrives on lipids and arginine. Dr. F reported the success rate for those people on the low fat vegan diet increased to 90%.
The people shouting the loudest that meat is good for them and they will never give it up are often the ones who are the sickest, have been sick for literally decades and have pretty much given up on ever becoming well.
Why won't you try something different? What do you have to lose? I have tried darn near every supplement, herb and drug mentioned on this site. I was loyal to the high fat diet for mepron and the high protein diet for candida. It just got sicker and sicker.
It amazes me that every time anyone posts anything about not eating meat, people immediately swarm in to rebuff it. Why? You don't give a hoot about what drugs someone is taking, or what supplements but you just can't handle the idea that anyone suggest meat might be contributing more to disease than health.
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Keebler
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- It may not be so much meat but the way that meat is raised, process and prepared that is the largest threat to health. Cattle fed corn & other GMO feed can cause very serious illness in humans. (See film: GMO Roulette). Additives used are also damaging.
I do think it can be valuable to see if avoiding not just "factory meats" but all meats might work for someone. It's just that it may not work for everyone.
I was a strict vegetarian for 18 years.
I am much better with wild fish, grass fed beef and organically raised chicken and eggs from such hens - along with lots of plant food.
For me, it just did not work. My body needed muscle meat and the fat from meat, too, in moderation.
Only when I added back in fish, meat and switched to better eggs, did the seizures stop being so violent. Only then did I stop falling so often. I was stronger, to the degree that anyone with undiagnosed lyme (at that time) could be.
Other body types, other people may do very well as a vegetarian. I know of many who have.
I was just not one of those. I forced myself to go years longer trying vegetarian than I should have. Still, taurine & CLA must be supplemented for safety.
Of course, it's good to try other ways just so we know that there is no one way that works for everyone and if something does not work, don't push it. Reassess and maybe figure out which components work and which don't.
For me, the source of the meat makes a world of difference. Even with eggs. I My body just can't tolerate eggs other than from "happy hens."
Still, one shining example of how vegan diet works is the chef at CHRISTINA COOKS. She has a wonderful site and TV program on PBS. She overcame cancer with vegan diet and herbs.
And, no matter what diet works best for us, more veggies are always in order. The CHRISTINA COOKS programs are some of my favorite cooking shows. I've learned much from her.
Still, Wild Planet's wild sardines and wild salmon are near miracles for my brain, my body. -
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Keebler
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(Note: simple adjustments can be made for those who are gluten-free and who also would avoid brown rice syrup that is in some deserts.)
This site is good for everyone, too, as the vegetable dishes she creates are splendidly delicious and fulfilling. -
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sparkle7
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re: Sparkle, were you eating processed and refined food when you were a vegetarian or nothing but whole foods including whole grains, legumes, fresh vegetables and fruits? If you were eating a healthy variety of foods in such a way as to supply complete proteins, it does not make sense to me that you did poorly on it.
-
Yes, I did eat quite well at the time. We have to consider that it was mainly in the 1980s-90s. There wasn't a big differentiation between veggies/fruits, grains, etc. & "organic" veggies/fruits/grains, etc. during that time. I was an avid listener of Gary Null & some of the people he used to interview on his radio show.
I started eating a pure, vegetarian type diet when I was a teenager because family members had cancer. I felt that I would be able to avoid illness if I ate a nutritious diet. So, I wasn't a "junk food" vegetarian at the time.
I worked in health food restaurants & with medicinal & culinary herbs & spices. So, I was quite familiar with theories in diet & nutrition. Macrobiotics was very popular at that time so I tried to eat things that were in season along with alot of Japanese influenced foods like brown rice, nori, seaweed, tofu, tamari & tahani, etc. I didn't drink coffee & I ate very little sugar.
I've also tried yeast free diets for fairly long periods of time & didn't have much of a change in my symptoms.
---
From what I read, there is an ancestral link to CBS mutation -
There have been 158 missense mutations found in CBS patients. Nearly a third of these have been expressed in E. coli and all of them have been found to significantly decrease the level of CBS activity [Kraus et al., 1999]. Nearly a quarter of the missense mutations are found in exon 3, the most evolutionarily conserved part of the CBS polypeptide.
The two most frequent mutations, I278T and G307S are found in exon 8. The I278T mutation is panethnic, and overall it accounts for close to a quarter of all homocystinuric alleles. However, in some countries, e.g. the Netherlands [Kluijtmans et al., 1999], it accounts for more than a half of the affected alleles.
Interestingly, a DNA- based screening of newborns in Denmark showed 1.4% of them to be heterozygous for the I278T mutation [Gaustadnes M 1999].
This value corresponds to a homozygote frequency of ~ 1: 20 000, a significantly higher incidence than the often quoted figure of 1:335,000 [Mudd et al. 1995].
The G307S mutation is undoubtedly the leading cause of homocystinuria in Ireland (71% of affected alleles) [Gallagher et al. 1995]. It has also been detected frequently in U.S. and Australian patients of 'Celtic' origin, including families with Irish, Scottish, English, French, and Portuguese ancestry.
In contrast, the G307S mutation has not been detected in a large number of tested alleles in Italy, the Netherlands, Germany and the Czech Republic.
The third most frequent alteration is a splice mutation in intron 11, 1224-2 A>C (IVS 11-2 A>C), which results in the skipping of all of exon 12.
Surprisingly, although it was found in Germany in about 20% of affected chromosomes of German and Turkish origin [Koch et al. 1994], it has never been detected in Italy and the Netherlands in nearly 70 alleles studied. It is, together with the I278T mutation, the most prevalent mutation in patients of Czech and Slovak origin [Kozich, 1999].
---
I know it's kind of technical & there is one mutation that is "panethnic". I don't know if that is the one that Dr. Heartfixer is addressing.
All of this "netrugenomics" is in it's infancy. We really don't know if these theories by Dr. Yasko or others are "written in stone" so to speak. I do think we can change our genetics. Whether these diets work or not - we don't really know.
I decided to just try the simplified methylation protocol without all the testing. I don't know if it's working but I did feel a slight shift when I started the supplements.
If something is helping & it makes you feel better - it's great. I don't think there is an all across the board diet that will help everyone. There are just too many different ethnicities & body types.
There are people who eat pork rinds & smoke who live to be over 100... I'm not sure what the percentage is but not all illness is diet related. Alot of it probably is these days due to the S.A.D. (standard American diet) - but I didn't really eat like that for most of my life.
I think the we need to eat "real food" as opposed to chemicals, pesticides, herbacides, & GMOs. We also need to eat clean food not grown in sewage water or in factory farms rampant with disease, fed GMOs or given lots of drugs & hormones.
It's not always easy or cheap to eat well. I'm not sure how things will be in the future but it's not cheap to eat all organic. We also have to contend with pollutants in the air & water, EMFs & radiation. We can never get away from it all at this point in time.
---
re: The people shouting the loudest that meat is good for them and they will never give it up are often the ones who are the sickest, have been sick for literally decades and have pretty much given up on ever becoming well.
-
This is not necessarily true... Ask anyone who works in a health food store - some of the most ill people are the ones shopping in there. Whether they ended up there by eating the S.A.D. - we don't know.
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sparkle7
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Over 130 mutations have been reported in the CBS gene; however, the two most common mutations are I278T and G307S in exon 8. The I278T mutation is pan ethnic, while G307S is most common in those of Irish ancestry.
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