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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Mild Hyperbaric Treatment (Page 44)

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Author Topic: Mild Hyperbaric Treatment
tom f
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Does anyone else experience burning sensations during hbot? I am experiencing burning above the muscle but below the skin mostly in my thighs, calves and hands - do have nerve damage in thee areas. I notice the burning is even worse if a have juice/smoothie and then dive - this makes no sense at all.

[ 06-24-2019, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: tom f ]

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carbokitty
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Sorry Tom~so far that is not a symptom I have. I do get burning when I am exposed to mold but its more on my skin or on my tongue.

I wanted to check in. I have just finished my 60th dive. There is a problem with my oxygen concentrator and after troubleshooting with James at ADM where I purchased it, he is replacing it. It apparently is giving me less than 82% oxygen (beeps and the yellow light is on). I have continued to dive under those conditions.

I do feel as if I am cheating, however. After a week+ of abnormal gut symptoms (actually, what was normal for me prior to mHBOT) and disrupted sleep, I added some berberine (goldenseal tincture) and some activated charcoal. I am amazed that these small tweaks made such a huge difference! However, prior to mHBOT, goldenseal and activated charcoal did not make my sleep or my stools "normal" (formed). So for the time being, I am going to continue for a little bit, slowly reducing the berberine.

As an aside (maybe I mentioned this before), I did a hair analysis in January, shortly after starting mHBOT because some in the mold community feel that there is a connection between heavy metals and mold sensitivity. I had no issues with heavy metals, except silver (and so interesting that I had been at my parents condo and eating with actual silverware and not stainless). However, many of my nutritional minerals were low. I am guessing that is because I have been taking activated charcoal on and off for many years because of its ability to bind mold. I have since added back some of the lowest minerals. I do any of this very slowly due to so many sensitivities.

Sorry! Some of this is way off topic! Just wanted to check in. I know my use of mHBOT is a bit different from most of you-however, I feel very connected to this community, having read the whole thread and very grateful for everyone's shares of their journeys and especially for all the help I've received from Phoiph. Thank you!

Have a lovely day,

Carbokitty

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kgg
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Tomf, are you in the FB group for mild hyperbaric treatment? This has come up for discussion there.

Carbokitty, thanks for checking in! I think it is great that you have found those supplements finally helping. I get it. My young adult son takes things and they do nada. Just one more encouragement for him. Thanks!

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Marnie
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There are many causes of hyperlactatemia and the resulting

lactic acidosis

but the most common is increased production of lactate from anaerobic glycolysis

due to reduced oxygen delivery to tissue cells (tissue hypoxia).

https://acutecaretesting.org/en/articles/l-lactate-and-d-lactate-clinical-significance-of-the-difference


Borrelia burgdorferi contains a L- lactate dehydrogenase gene)

This subpathway is part of the pathway pyruvate fermentation

to lactate, which is itself part of Fermentation.

https://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/B7J121

In comparison, only LDH ( = L-lactate dehydrogenase )
activity was decreased by TUDCA treatment.

https://www.jci.org/articles/view/18945

TUDCA is a bile salt that contains taurine. It is being researched for many diseases.

Available OTC. IMO, might be best with Doxy too. Synergy.

Ultimate goal looks to be to suppress a liver enzyme called CYP7A1 (= cholesterol to bile salts).

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Phoiph
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tomf~

I don't have a definitive answer, but a theory based on my experience.

When nerves are damaged (as mine were; I had a lot of numb areas & small fiber neuropathy), the areas can be painful (or do strange things, such as twitch, or vibrate, etc.) when "re-awakened" by 02 under pressure.

My impression is that your nerves are responding to the oxygen, but it will take time for the sensations to normalize.

I'm not sure why you observe it to be worse when you have juice/smoothie beforehand, but it may have something to do with blood sugar levels. Maybe try a small high protein snack before instead to keep your blood sugar levels stable.

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susank
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I just did a dive after two years of not doing them.

I've had a rough past two years.

Lots of stress - allergies - jaw clenching - pain etc - which made getting in the chamber again seem impossible.

With the help of a friend I just did a test dive tonight - to see if my right ear would cooperate.

She helped me get in/out and did the zippers.

My goal was to make it to .5 PSI - see how my ears would do.

Once inflated the needle went to 1 PSI quickly - and I quickly dialed it down.

I went up and down between .5 and .8 for about half an hour. My right ear did better than expected.

I am hopeful.

Also concerned - getting in/out by myself is painful. I need ideas /help with this. I'm afraid I'm doing more damage to painful areas pre and post dive.

My shoulders are in bad shape - as well my back.

It feels like I'm pulling muscles doing all things "dive" except for the dive itself.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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Phoiph
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Susan~

Getting in and out will get easier.

If you haven't already, you might want to try some very gentle stretching before you get in. You could get a beginning yoga DVD and do it before your session.

I know your chamber is small, but if you roll onto your stomach, then get on all fours before standing when you get out, you might find it easier.

I am so happy you are giving it another try!

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notthisguy
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Hi, im about to buy a mhbot unit for lyme but cant really decide which one to buy.
Im struggling between the brands: Summit2Sea, newtown and macy-pan.
i dont really want to buy a used chamber, because i have lots of allergies issues and dont want to risk it. well and also because of warranty.
I hope someone who followed this thread more closely can make a comment about those chambers.
I tried to dig through this thread but 44 pages is really really hard for someone in my condition.

kind regards

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Peimomma
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Susan you might try placing your chamber on a bed with the zipper on the side for easy entry and exit up higher off the ground.
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Peimomma
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Notthisguy
There are many users of both S2S and NT on the Facebook group with no issues. Macy-Pan is relatively new to the market so I don’t know anyone off the top of my head that has one but I’m certain there’s one in the group. Many have discussed the ease of exchange or repair with whichever company you go with to purchase your chamber.

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Kaibyrd
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Notthisguy, I’m kinda new to Summit to Sea, having just bought mine in November but I really like it. Very easy to use with the gauge on both the inside and outside, no smell when new, light inside from the white material used to make it. The zippers were a bit difficult to use to begin with but now they move very easy.

--------------------
KB

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susank
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Pei - Interesting idea. Thanks.

Trying to envision this. Rolling over into the chamber? What about the frame?

Know of any pics doing it this way?
Anyone? Could be sent to my email address?

So the window would be facing to the side?

I'm so tiny the Solace is fine size-wise.

When I did my test dive at a wellness place - it was a Vitaeris. IIRC on a platform with steps to walk up and use to step into it.
Of course the gal there helped me - IIRC held my hand to balance me / did the zippers and everything.

Looking at my chamber now while typing - dunno if possible to roll into it. Thinking about this. Thanks again.

Yes, Phoiph - I'm trying again.
My ears did better than expected - the rest of me - worse than expected.

--------------------
Pos.Bb culture 2012
Labcorp - no bands ever
Igenex - Neg. 4 times
With overall bands:
IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39
IGG 41,58 IND: 39
Bart H IGG 40

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notthisguy
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maybe some of you can help me finding a decision which brand to buy.
I'm wondering if anyone here has a summit to sea mhbot and could give me a quick review about their chambers. Do they gas off? How is the quality? Did you have any problems with it? etc.

Thank you very much in advance.

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elsworth
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I'd like to do a follow up on my post about clear PVC Hudson Masks.

I did reach out to Dr. Rhea's clinic in Texas, as Phoiph suggested. I bought one of their metal masks, and some tygon tubing. I've been using this mask daily for over three weeks now, up to 20 minutes per day. And I'm very happy to say that, things have been going much better.

The metal mask is never going to be as comfortable as a PVC flexible Hudson Mask, but at least I can use it without getting the hibbie jibbies after ten minutes (!)

If you are chemically sensitive, just go ahead and order a metal mask from Dr. Rhea's clinic. That would be my recommendation.

Now, onward to the next step. The chamber.

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Kaibyrd
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Ellsworth I think people have done this to make it easier to get into for some.

--------------------
KB

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elsworth
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Thank you Kaibyrd.

I deleted the original post, after I read the manual. It says you can put it on a bed without the frame in the manual. (Hey, men don't read instructions.)

My original question was can you put a Newtowne C4-34 on a bed without the external frame ?

The answer is, yes. But it would need to be a big bed. And you have to make provisions for not rolling off the bed when at pressure.

After doing my test inflation... the bed looks like it's outta here.

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Phoiph
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Hi Summit to Sea users...can you chime in to help notthisguy?

He could use some feedback on your experience with this manufacturer.

He is limited with his purchase options, as he is in Germany, and has to consider where to send a chamber in if it needs future repairs, etc.

Sending a chamber back to the states for repair would be cost-prohibitive, and the Summit to Sea factory is in France.

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Kaibyrd
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Phoiph, my reply is above.

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Thank you, Kaibyrd...
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Kaibyrd
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You’re welcome Phoiph. 😊

--------------------
KB

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notthisguy
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Hi,
im wondering if anyone needed 1.5 ATA instead of 1.3 to get some symptome relief?
Since there are also 1.5 ATA chambers out there I always think maybe I just should pay extra to be on the safe side.

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Phoiph
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notthisguy,

As you may know, in the US, FDA regulations require home chambers to go no higher than 1.3 ATA.

I became well using 1.3 ATA, as have the majority of people I know.

I have heard of a few people who have modified their chambers, but this will void the warranty and prevent future repairs if necessary.

Things may be different in Germany, but I would research it carefully, and consider whether the extra cost is really warranted.

Many people with chronic illness will need to work up to 1.3 ATA gradually, and find the effects very powerful and effective at that dosage (if they are patient). A higher pressure doesn't guarantee a faster recovery, and would be too much for many.

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notthisguy
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germany doesnt care about FDA and doesnt regulate hbot.
we can even buy homechambers with 2.0 ATA (not that I would do it because of fire hazard, but it would be legal)
so the question really is just about if anyone found 1.3 ATA to be not sufficient but did well with 1.5 ATA (or even higher)

I'm pretty sure I will be one of the people who need to work up to 1.3 ATA since im very sensitive to everything (foods, supplements, medication.) But working up to something doesnt automatically exclude that higher pressures cant be worked up to and be more beneficial (if that makes sense?)


Also on another note:
how many people found that mhbot helped them with MCAS?
Because this is my biggest problem right now out of all my symptoms. I can only tolerate 3 different foods without having an anaphylatic shock.....

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Digby
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Notthisguy, I started with a big chamber at pressures around 2 -2.6 ATA. I did 20 sessions and didn't see any improvement, just felt worse (not a herx as far as I could tell). The mild chamber at 1.3 got me from home bound/dysfunctional to hiking and biking. I still have problems but I've been sick since 1974, so there is probably damage to my immune and nervous system. From my perspective I wouldn't go above 1.5 and for me 1.3 worked fine.
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Kaibyrd
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Just wanted to update.

2 weeks ago I had to have a tooth pulled. Last tooth on bottom right. I swelled up big time and had to go on antibiotics, Z-pac 5 day.

The swelling has almost gone away now and I thought the pain was nearly gone as well but Sunday night it started coming back. There’s no new swelling and everything looks like it’s healing well, there’s just pain. I’m not taking much ibuprofen now but I still need one 200mg 2-3 times a day.

Sometimes it feels like I may be having a reaction to the numbing shots I was given when the tooth was extracted. I get itching on the edges of where the numbing stopped and I still have a sore lump in the bend of the jaw where they like to give the injection most for those back teeth. Also, I asked for the shots without epinephrine because my heart races bad when given the shots that contain it.

I feel as if I’m starting over with hbot. Like I did a month in (in February) and I was so wiped out I couldn’t do anything at all. Does anyone have experience with dental issues early in their hbot treatment?

--------------------
KB

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kgg
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I too have to have lidocaine without the epinephrine. It makes my heart race too. Seems like it is a long time for it to still be swollen. Were you supposed to check back in with the dentist? I have bad teeth, runs in the family. So I can't blame my teeth work on mHBO. My dentist told me to dive after I had a tooth pulled to help with the healing. fwiw
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Kaibyrd
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I usually don’t have problems with my teeth but this one got a hairline fracture in it and was getting bad. I did go back last Monday but he said everything looked good. There’s very little swelling left now so I just don’t know what could be causing the pain I still have. Some of the pain is coming from the injection sites.

I was hurting too much when I got home the day of the extraction to dive but that’s the only day I missed.

--------------------
KB

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carbokitty
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Hi KB~
Sorry you are having pain. I wonder if maybe the injection hit a nerve? Or maybe caused some bruising at the site?
Have you tried putting heat around your mouth and does that help? It may help move any blood that's accumulated there that might be causing pain (like a bruise).
Sometimes people have ongoing problems with things called cavitations that occur at the extraction site where maybe some of the tooth was left. Its an infection that forms in the bone. But because the location of the pain seems to be on the gum and at the injection site, it, thankfully doesn't sound like a cavitation.
I hope it resolves soon and you feel better.
Carbokitty

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Kaibyrd
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Thank you Carbokitty. Yeah it doesn’t sound like a cavitation to me either but if it’s not better in a couple days, I’ll have to go back in.
I was using ice packs last week for the pain I had then but I haven’t tried heat yet. I’ll see if that helps.

--------------------
KB

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Digby
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I used to ask for the anesthetic without epi because of heart palps and a general wired feeling. I saw the dentist a couple of months ago and forgot to mention it. I was concerned but had no problems at all. I believe that is due to mHBOT. I am no longer chemically sensitive either.
Hang in there most things improve if you stay the course for the long haul. I had to learn not to micromanage my progress.

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carbokitty
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Hi! I thought I would give an update as I have completed 80 dives.
That goal seemed so unattainable and so far away and here I am! Although I am certainly not finished. Its just a milestone.

It was interesting reading Digby talk about learning not to micromanage symptoms. I am still doing that. I am actually glad to an extent that I am.

My symptoms and history and diagnosis are a bit different from others. I had a set back last month after eating a spicy burger out. Just as a reminder, my main symptoms are diarrhea and food sensitivities with a diagnosis of mold sensitivity and SIBO (small intestine bacteria overgrowth). Diving wasn't resolving the injury from the burger. Changes in diet weren't making a difference. I finally did another 2 fecal microbiota transplants. They had limited benefit. I finally added ginger in a tincture form at night before bed. Its recommended as a pro kinetic (to move the migrating motor complex in the small intestine). That seems to have settled and stabilized things.

In the meantime, I bumped up my dives to 90 minutes most days. That also helped somewhat.

I feel that mHBOT now has a better chance of doing some complete healing to my tender lining of the small intestine and the nerves with the bacteria out and not causing ongoing damage-and the ginger is apparently helping do that.

So that's where I am.

I also had a problem with the oxygen concentrator in that it would beep and the light would come on after I was in the chamber. James replaced it and its all been good every since.

Thank you all and especially Phoiph for your support and community.
Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Thank you, Carbokitty.

I'm sure you have already done thorough testing, but are you familiar with the GI MAP (DNA Stool Analysis) by Diagnostic Solutions Lab?

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Digby
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The following link is a useful education for anyone wanting to understand mHBOT. It is one man's opinion and I don't necessarily agree with everything he says but it will be very useful for beginners and a great review for accomplished divers. FWIW... http://biotoxinjourney.com/the-case-for-mild-hbot/
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carbokitty
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Thanks Phoiph for the suggestion. I have not done that test. I have done several others for parasites but they can be notorious for false negatives. I have been positive for SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth, so I know I have/have had that. I tested negative in January but my symptoms tell me I have sine relapsed. I will consider this test.
I have planned to retest for mold via urine in August but may push that back as I’ve had random (unplanned) exposures since I tested in January and started mHBOT.

Thanks everyone!
Have a great weekend!
Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Carbokitty, I just sent you a PM.
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Jazzman
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I thought I would post an update. Last week I finally made it to 1h for oxygen under full pressure, wearing the oxygen mask. As I posted earlier, over the last number of weeks I have been slowly increasing the oxygen time a minute a day. When I reached 40 minutes I decided to go to 2 minutes at a time and the interval to 60 minutes was uneventful. As I also mentioned earlier, the timing I was using was timing the oxygen down at the end, instead of up st the beginning of a dive.

I did purchase an Oxymask, after using a Hudson type to start. I can't discern any real difference between the two in delivery: I found the Hudson to be a bit more comfortable and I think I will move back to using it.

Now I guess it's just a matter of being patient and making sure I am consistent in diving every day, which I have been other than when I had a few hiccups at my beginning this journey. No light switch moments, I have been sick a long time and really did not expect any, but I can say without a doubt my neuropathy is considerably better, just about completely resolved in my right hand. My left hand was much worse than my right, but now feels at a level my right used to feel at before diving and my feet have improved as well.

Too soon to comment on much else, but last weekend I did finish a woodworking project that has been sitting for 3 years and enjoyed the work and didn't feel it was a chore. I had a clear head and was feeling up energy levels and motivated.

Notthisguy, the unit I purchased gives the option of switching out the 1.3 ATA valves to 1.5 ATA valves, it ships with both. Because I have been sick for over 25 years I thought, like you, I may need the option of going to a deeper dive. I no longer feel this way, I am in no rush to go to higher pressures, if at all. My understanding is that anything over 1.5 ATA is no longer consider mhbot, but hbot.

One more thing I will say on this is that I used to live out west, close to the mountains, at a higher elevation. I have no current plans on moving back there, but life is strange so who knows. This is where going to 1.5 ATA may be a necessity as higher elevations affects the performance of mhbot chambers. So 1.5 ATA, at elevation, may actually be equal to around 1.3 ATA. There is information out there that I read on doing precise calculations on this effect.

A friend of mine wanted to know how long it will take before I know if it's working, I told it may be quite a while, maybe even a year or two, he did seem a bit surprised by this. I have this treatment, in my mind, kind of like aging. It's slow and gradual, hard to observe changes in the short term, but over a longer term, much more apparent.

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Digby
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Jazzman....Awesome update! Thanks for sharing.
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Charles12
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As I posted previously, I was using mhbot as a monotherapy for about a two years and while I made gains, I experienced a slow relapse over the last year.

I wanted to follow that up with more details.

It looks like the primary culprit was Babesia. I first noticed air hunger in September of 2018 but I met few if any of the markers for traditional Babesia. My other primary symptoms at the time were exercise intolerance, anxiety, poor vision, eye pain, headaches, popping joints, and general inflammation. Also stiff neck, and air passages that seem to close up on me. I didn't feel like myself either, but that had been true for a long time. My personality had disappeared and my thinking was slow.

All of these symptoms have responded to anti malarial treatment, albiet with some herxing.

I didn't understand how this could happen while I was diving on a daily basis. Hbot generates free radicals, and that's the primary method of action for most anti malarials.

So why did my babesia remerge?

There are a few claims out there that hbot can feed babesia, but there are no studies to back up that claim. So what was going on?

I suppose the answer is, who knows, but perhaps it had something to do with the level of free radicals generated, maybe it simply wasn't enough to actually kill the Babesia, or perhaps while it killed some, it left behind too many mutants who could survive the treatment.

I don't think you can draw to many lessons from one persons experience, but at least for me, while mhbot has helped (especially with old brain injury issues) it's not a panacea. And it may only be part of a larger treatment strategy.

- C

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Phoiph
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Hi Charles12~

I'm really glad to hear you're making progress with your Babesia treatment, and you raise some good questions.

Can you clarify some questions for me about your mHBOT treatment history so I can understand better?

If I recall, a couple of months ago you posted that you had used mHBOT as a monotherapy for 8 months and made gains, but then started backsliding (at which time you went back on meds for Babesia and Bartonella).

So, I'm wondering about the time frame (i.e., 8 months vs. 2 years), and also whether you just recently started drug therapy for Babesia, or if you have been on meds for some time (but they are just now beginning to work).

I do believe mHBOT can take care of Babesia as a monotherapy (as it did in my case), but I don't believe it generates enough free radicals to do the job alone; the immune system has to have recovered enough to fight the Babesia and prevent relapse. Since most of the immune system resides in the gut, then IMO, attention to healing it has to be part of the larger treatment strategy.

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Charles12
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I used MHBOT from October of 2016 to June of 2017.

And I resumed it in July of 2017. For most of the past two years it has been a monotherapy.

quote:
the immune system has to have recovered enough to fight the Babesia and prevent relapse. Since most of the immune system resides in the gut, then IMO, attention to healing it has to be part of the larger treatment strategy.
For some fortunate individuals, I'm sure that's true. It was not for me.

But we're dealing with a population, myself included, that has immune systems that probably have specific and unfortunate weaknesses. There is something about our genetic makeup which makes us more susceptible to these pathogens.

Perhaps it's a mutation that provides a specific advantage in one area, but in this case is a vulnerability.

This is not to down mhbot though. It repaired a lot of the memory issues I had developed after a mild traumatic brain injury.

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Phoiph
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Hi Charles~

I totally agree that we all have immune system and genetic predisposition that got us here in the first place, as there are many people in the population who aren't affected (or at least to this degree).

Also, I understand you're not downing mHBOT at all, just discussing what worked for you and what didn't...which is valuable information for all of us.

I'm sorry to belabor this point, but I really want to be clear so I can put this in perspective. Could you clarify what you mean when you say (re healing the gut to assist in recovering immune function), "For some fortunate individuals, I'm sure that's true. It was not for me."

So then, was gut healing an integral part of your mHBOT protocol over those months of mHBOT? (If not, then I would understand the possibility of backsliding.) If you did make gut healing part of your protocol, and it didn't work for you, what kinds of things did you do? What did your diet consist of?

I have not known of anyone with chronic tick borne infections (and especially those who have been on multiple antibiotic/drug therapies) to have become completely well without working on their gut health (even with mHBOT).

I appreciate your specific responses...your experiences are very important so we can all learn from them.

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Charles12
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quote:
I have not known of anyone with chronic tick borne infections (and especially those who have been on multiple antibiotic/drug therapies) to have become completely well without working on their gut health (even with mHBOT).
I suspect mhbot kills gut flora.

If passed out in my chamber, which happened a few times, and spent too long it, I would develop diarrhea.

And that only makes sense. Mhbot generates free radicals, oxidants, which is why we use it. These oxidants kill bacteria, but they do not discriminate between “good” and “bad” bacteria.

I didn't specifically pursue gut health, but I eat a largely organic diet, with lots of cheese, for example. I also enjoy kombucha, and Kefir, and other fermented foods.

I don't eat processed foods, and I go out my way to avoid plastic containers.

I'm leery of endocrine disruptors.

[ 07-26-2019, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Charles12 ]

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carbokitty
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Brief update:

After having the setback with my gut/stools a month ago, I bumped up my dives to 90 minutes when other efforts to get things on track again did not work. Whether it did or was part of the solution in combination with other things, things have improved.
After 2 weeks of 90 minutes, however, I awoke one night at 2:30 with severe pain in my liver area (upper right quadrant of my abdomen). It lasted for hours!
I had to be out of town the next 4 nights and was unable to find a clinic to do dives in so I missed 4 days. I got right back to diving the day we got back and have since settled back in to 60 minute dives.
I think my liver was unable to keep up with the detox of the longer dives-so I'm going to stick with 60 minutes going forward.

I was also able to do some longer bike riding and longer walks while I was away and that felt great! I slept well. I didn't crash and burn from overexertion and I feel my lungs really loving the extra oxygenation that comes with fresh air and exercise.

Have a great day! Thanks for being here on this journey with me.
85 dives and counting.

Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Charles12~

Studies show that HBOT definitely alters the gut biome, as different organisms have different oxygen needs/tolerances.

The good news is, this study shows that populations of 2 different beneficial gut bacteria (Bifobacterium, and Lactobacillus) were either unaltered (Bifo), or increased (Lacto), when rats were exposed to high pressures. The pathogenic bacteria, Clostridium, was reduced.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1684118211002398

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Digby
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carbokitty...I experimented with 90 minute dives for a while and decided that it was too much. If I ever feel the need to increase my time again, I will do 2 sessions of 45 minutes each in a day rather than a full 90 minute dive. At this point though I really think 60 minutes is the sweet spot for a healthy hormetic response.
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KarenLyme791
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Sleep: I notice that I am having some difficulty staying asleep at night. I was wondering if there is anything safe to try for sleep or do you just try to wait it out til it eventually gets better? I dont want to take something and have it negate the gains I might be making from mhbot.
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Digby
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Karen, If you can find a natural sleep aid that helps, I suggest you use it. Sleep is a much higher priority in healing than HBO. If anyone doubts that, try going a few days without it! So, my recommendation is to fix your sleep, it won't negate the gains from mHBOT.
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KarenLyme791
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Does anyone notice that mhbot makes their head feel kinda woozy and kinda lethargic? Is there something I should be using to help with this? Like could it be too many toxins being killed and what helps?
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Kaibyrd
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I noticed the woozy and still do. I think it’s toxins. I have so much detox that I just have to skip a day every now and then but I’m a 20 year Lymer. They’ve been attacking my body for a very long time.

For sleep aid you could try l-tryptophan, Pharma GABA or Valerian or try combination supplements such as Gaia Herbs’s Sleep Thru.

--------------------
KB

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KarenLyme791
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Thank you, KB. Is there any kind of detoxification that is recommended by this site to help with the die-off?
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KarenandLeif
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I was wondering how long you have been diving and if it's helped you?

quote:
Originally posted by Kaibyrd:
I noticed the woozy and still do. I think it’s toxins. I have so much detox that I just have to skip a day every now and then but I’m a 20 year Lymer. They’ve been attacking my body for a very long time.

For sleep aid you could try l-tryptophan, Pharma GABA or Valerian or try combination supplements such as Gaia Herbs’s Sleep Thru.


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Kaibyrd
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I’m sorry, I’m not really doing well right now. Tooth extraction has me down. I don’t remember at the moment what is recommended.
Anyone else?

--------------------
KB

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KarenandLeif
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How may ATA's was your wife doing at the clinic in the hard-shelled chamber?

quote:
Originally posted by JCarlhelp:
Here is another interesting piece of information. Byron White of Byron White formulas that are well recognized on this site wrote an article many years ago on MBOT. I contacted his office with the following responses:

1. Am not at liberty to speak for Byron's personal life and what he used but know he advocates for mild hyperbaric.

2. Yes our formulas can be utilized at the same time as using hyperbaric. In fact some people take the formulas 30 min prior to using their MBOT.

Seems that some people use these two in combination. Lots of unanswered questions that only time and further experiences will tell.

I am not a doctor so none of my posts should be taken as any kind of medical advice.


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carbokitty
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Hi KarenLyme791~
One of our long time members, peimomma, who is well and active today after 2 years of diving, swears by coffee enemas. If you've never done one, you can search the internet for instructions. It helps the liver detox. This member has talked about doing even 2 coffee enemas daily to detox.

I started diving in a mild HBOT chamber at 20 min the first time and then I did almost daily dives for 40 minutes each. I tried 60 and didn't feel good so went back to 40 min for awhile. After 2 months, I was able to go up to 60 daily without issue. I still feel a bit tired and out of it when I first finish my dives but its more like I just waking up from a nap. Doesn't take long to feel "normal" again.

Hope this helps.
Carbokitty

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KarenLyme791
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Thanks! I will research coffee enemas.

Do you know how many have gotten well from this type of treatment?

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Peimomma
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KarenLyme791

I was even doing 3-4 cE’s In a day while diving in the first several months as I was herxing. I always felt better after and if I began to feel heavy with toxins or (full as I liked to call it back then) I would do a second or third CE during the day.

I agree with Digby, rest is very important to let your body heal. I believe there have been several on this board that have gotten well and left to live normal lives. Others like myself, Phoiph and a few more stay around to guide others in the therapy while living healthy and productive lives.

At the end of my 2 years of treating in the chamber when I knew I was well and wanted to go back to work I began researching Bioidentical hormone replacement therapy BHRT. I was almost 48 and noticed many of my symptoms from Lyme also were symptoms of low hormones so I researched and found a good clinic to get tested that specialized in BHRT. It has changed my life, any fatigue or achy joints that were left over from the Lyme and old age are gone when I get my pellets every 3 months. Many environmental toxins and medications rob our hormones as well as aging.

If you need help with the CE’s, I have made short little prep videos of what you need, how to brew and tips and tricks to a good inexpensive coffee enema. I tried every apparatus, coffee and brewing technique. Once the coffee is loaded in the bag, the rest is up to you😊 send me a PM and we can connect if you are interested.

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elsworth
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I have done 30 days of diving now in my C4-34 Newtowne chamber with Airsep 10 O2 concentrator, full mask. My dives are short, but I am building up slowly. I have a metal mask and tygon tubing, as is appropriate for someone with chemical sensitivities. I got the mask from Dr. Rhea's clinic in Dallas, TX..

I'd like to say a few things about my case, but first I want to thank all the generous people who have posted on this thread, and most especially Phoiph. She was instrumental in helping me get started, and I can't thank her enough. She's a true gem. :-)

Now, about my case. I've been chronically ill all of my adult life, going on 35 years now. I began with a classic case of chronic fatigue syndrome, and have gradually evolved into a mast cell disorder, fibromyalgia, and polyarthritis, with all of the attendant difficulties. I've been tested for Lyme twice via the Western Blot test. I do not recall it showing anything remarkable. However, I'm from a rural area, and I've always lead an outdoorsy life. Tick bites were unremarkable to the people in this area, and I've had thousands of them in my life. If I didn't have a tick borne infection, it would be a miracle.

I've tried many therapies in my "career" of ill health. Few made any difference, with the exception of dental cavitation surgeries, which helped me quite a bit, but for me were quite painful, and never seemed to fully resolve. I wish I had known about MHBOT when I was having those ! Mold remediation was quite helpful. Medicines for the mast cell disorder keep me alive. A strict (and restricted) diet is essential, as is avoiding chemicals and mold. A few supplements are somewhat helpful, esp. digestive enzymes. Practicing the Wim Hof Method has helped my arthritis a bit. The Wim Hof Method involves intermittent hypoxia, so that is an interesting juxtaposition with mHBOT. My suspicion is that they might paradoxically be complimentary to each other. Infecting myself with parasitic worms has been a good step forward for me. I detail my goings ons in my Worm Blog. You're welcome to follow along there if you like. https://zippy890.wordpress.com/5th-year-of-hosting/

So, that's it. Now, my journey with mHBOT begins. Pop some popcorn. I am hopeful, but I have no idea how this movie turns out.

[ 08-21-2019, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: elsworth ]

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carbokitty
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Hi all~

Just a brief update. I'm here because of diarrhea/SIBO and food sensitivities. I was having great results (formed stools) until I had a spicy hamburger out to dinner in mid-June. Nothing was really helping and then I was exposed to mold (through a piece of furniture we brought into the house) (Mold was the original cause of my symptoms). After a rough week and then 4 days away, my stools are back to being good, like they had been in my first 5 months of mHBOT. (I have now done 102 dives).

I recently had a stool test run (GI Maps) at Phoiph's suggestion. There were 4 pages of NO pathogens (no worms, viruses, bacteria, etc). However there were some low levels of beneficial bacteria (I've done FMTs-fecal microbiota transplants for this) and most helpful to know-low secretory IgA-an antibody in the small intestine. Low levels of SIgA can cause...diarrhea and food sensitivities! I haven't been able to find any research showing that mHBOT can increase SIgA. There are a few supplements. The challenge with sensitivities is that I often "react" to substances. So I am trying one by one in very very small amounts. I am hopeful, however, that the combo of mHBOT and supplements can help me turn a corner and not be so sensitive to random exposure to substances.

I came on here today primarily to ask about fatigue and ashiness. Since my turn around last week after the mold exposure, I have been sleeping very well (8-9 hours straight), however, am still tired and feel as if I could sleep all the time. I am also more achy and that's not "normal" fo rme. I am thinking its herxing/detoxing but also just read Peimomma's post above about how BHRT helped with fatigue and achiness. I guess I'll try a CE to see if that helps and then consider BHRT (I've tried to avoid in the past) down the road. Other thoughts about this increased fatigue and achiness are appreciated!

Happy diving!

Carbokitty

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kgg
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I always experience a set back in the Fall. I used to think it was an annual Lyme flare. This year I am paying attention more closely. It has been a very busy summer with gardens and renovating a camp into a studio. Plus it is ragweed season where I am. That always gets me. So for me, it is a combo of things. I have found that mHBO heals what ever it wants. We may be diving to treat this and the body focuses on something else. So I am wondering if your immune system has found something to deal with.
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Phoiph
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I agree with kgg.

mHBOT helps the body deal with layers, and it may seem like "new" issues or symptoms are appearing.

Although I do understand the urge to act to relieve symptoms as they come up (it is how traditional medicine works), with mHBOT I feel it is important to give the body a chance to work through the layers and phases without too much well-intentioned interference.

As in classical homeopathy, you take a remedy and wait...sometimes for weeks or months while the remedy takes action, and you are advised to avoid mixing many other substances and therapies.

I feel the same advice applies to mHBOT in many respects.

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carbokitty
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Hi again all~

I guess I'm the newbie with all the questions. I developed a cold/cleanse/detox/upper respiratory gunk a week ago. I was out of the chamber for 5 days. Felt much better by Saturday and Sunday and resumed my 1 hour dives with O2. Yesterday, I woke up feeling worse again (slight sore throat, nose running, very tired) and I didn't dive. I'm really tired today again. I know these questions have been asked before. I apologize. What would you recommend as this point for resuming my dives (possibly tomorrow). Build up my time again? Wait a little longer to resume? What did you do and what worked or didn't work for you?

Thank you!

Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Hi Carbokitty…

In my case, I went in every day unless I had a fever or ear congestion that prevented me from pressurizing.

I can only share what worked for me, as I had no other experiences to draw on at the time, but I do believe consistency is key. You should not need to build up slowly again after being off for only a week.

I believe the cold symptoms and fatigue is your body's way of working through layers, as you mentioned (i.e., cleanse). I remember having the "flu from hell" several months into mHBOT, where I was certain all my gains were lost and I was relapsing.

Unexpectedly, I came out of each phase a little stronger.

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carbokitty
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Thanks Phoiph~

I appreciate your response and sharing your experience.
PS. Although topics of conversation yesterday got to touchy subjects, super emotional yesterday. I assume and expect that that's all part of the journey.

My best,
Carbokitty

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Phoiph
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Yes, there are definitely mental/emotional layers as well! But I found that these didn't phases didn't last too long if I just let them process without trying to analyze or judge too much (not to say you are!).

At times, it felt like there was a lot going on in the background of the mental/emotional-realm that I really didn't understand, but that needed to work itself out on another level.

Hopefully others will share their thoughts, as there is a lot of experience on this board now and others' journeys to draw from.

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kgg
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Carbokitty, ask away! That is how we all learn.

If I experienced your experience of resuming and feeling poorly. I might resume diving but at a reduce amount of time. Probably only 30 minutes. If I tolerated that I would then resume full time.
If I still felt off I would continue a couple more days of partial dives then resume an hour if I was back to my "normal" prior to getting the cold.

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Looking4hope
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Hey Phoiph

Hope all is well! I'm now amazingly a little over a year off all RX drugs one of which was "Klonopin" which I took for over seventeen years!

I'm going to begin diving again now that my body is as clean / pure as it's been in over seventeen years!

I remember you telling me it would be extremely difficult to make a full recovery until I was ultimately 100% off all RX drugs...can't believe I'm finally RX / Drug free(-:

I'm now able to workout again, and amazingly have recovered my old body "Pre Lyme /Benzo W/D", however I still have quite a few nagging issues!

I have this inner restlessness which many in my "Benzo Support Group" have described as a form of "Akathesia".

It's my most troublesome symptom and I'm hoping by following a "Healthy Diet" and of course diving again I can put this baby to bed once and for all!

Following a strict Paleo diet is extremely difficult for me to adhere to as I'm already naturally lean.


With the aforementioned said I now know more then ever that I desperately need to HEAL my gut in order to to put this LONG chapter of my life behind me once and for all!

If you can kindly suggest other diet(s) others have had success with when combined with MHBOT I would greatly appreciate it! Once again hope all is well PHOIPH, and many thanks as always!

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Kaibyrd
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Looking4hope I'm so happy to see you back and feeling better!!! I was really sad to read about your problems as I read through the entire thread.

I was on and off Kpin for many years too. It’s a horrible drug! I’ve been off since 2012. My Lyme symptoms are not improved though since menopause hit. I’m hoping mHBOT will eventually help.

--------------------
KB

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Looking4hope
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Kailbyrd

I often times wonder how many of my original symptoms were attributed to "Klonopin", and all of the other RX drugs I was put on over the span of seventeen years?

I can most certainly say that coming off of these drugs after seventeen years of use was a HELL I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy if I had one!

You touched upon the fact that after you went through menopause it made your journey that much more challenging!

I can most certainly relate as years of RX drug use completely destroyed my testosterone levels AKA "Male Menopause".

I was put on a TRT protocol last year which requires one "Test Cyp" injection every seven to ten days.

I started diving again today and have recommitted myself to finishing this chapter of my life off once and for all!

I now look really healthy, however I want to "Feel Really Healthy"...maybe I'm expecting too much considering I have only been RX free for a little over a year?

The prevailing sentiment in the "Benzo W/D", forms tends to be one of "Only Time And Nothing Else Will Heal Us"? While I do believe time is an extremely important factor I also believe there are things we can do to potentially speed up the process.

In closing I really do believe MHBOT can be a tremendous recourse for those both willing and able to follow ALL of steps PHOIPH has outlined here time and again. I really hope you too can put this chapter of your life behind you once and for all as well!

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Kaibyrd
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Looking4hope, I agree.

The only prescription meds I take now are bio-identical hormones and natural thyroid meds from a compounding pharmacy.

Thanks so much!

--------------------
KB

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Phoiph
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Hi Looking4Hope~

Great to hear from you...and congratulations! What you have accomplished in getting off of 17 years of benzos is truly a testament to your tenacity and dedication to achieving true health. I am so happy for you!

I am very optimistic that you will continue to improve now with diet and resumed mHBOT.

Regarding diet, if Paleo is too strict for your body, you might try a "modified" Paleo, where you incorporate healthy, unrefined carbs intermittently (e.g., soaked and dried nuts, beans, quinoa, etc.).

Keep us posted on your progress.

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Peimomma
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Anyone looking for a Vitaris Oxyhealth chamber? Send me a message and I can get you in touch with the owner for questions and price.
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Hominahomina
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Karenlyme
Coffee enemas really take the load off of my kidneys which can get overwhelmed filtering all the die off out
I take NAC followed a couple hours later by a coffee enema held for 25 minutes really helps
The Nac combined with CE increases glutathione a lot
but the NAC is just something I do

Sometimes two CE a day the second one for not as long so I can get to sleep later only use NAC on the first one

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