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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Does a bullseye rash like mine always indicate Lyme Disease?

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Author Topic: Does a bullseye rash like mine always indicate Lyme Disease?
notfromtheus
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Hi everyone!

I'm not from the US and just noticed a very weird bullseye rash on my left leg.

That immediately made me suspicious about the fact that I might have been bitten by a tick.

The strange thing is that lately, while I did indeed travel a lot, I wasn't involved in outdoor activities.

In a normal country like the US, you could just go see a doctor but over here, you can't put much faith in their diagnosis for things like Lyme Disease.

Given the fact that Lyme Disease is particularly hard to diagnose in general with the tests being inaccurate a lot, the chances of obtaining a clear diagnosis in my country are slim to none.

Therefore, I have to self-diagnose through the Internet. Not the best situation you could be in but I hope you can help.

I took 7 pictures of the rash on my left leg, here they are:

http://s2.postimg.org/y7zit34p5/2013_08_06_12_31_02.jpg

http://s11.postimg.org/l3r0s4wn7/2013_08_06_12_31_54.jpg

http://s7.postimg.org/7ieqz6y8r/2013_08_06_16_51_30.jpg

http://s9.postimg.org/da0ra7p8f/2013_08_06_16_52_28.jpg

http://s8.postimg.org/aj906zcd1/2013_08_06_16_52_20.jpg

http://s17.postimg.org/k5v200zcf/2013_08_06_16_52_05.jpg

http://s9.postimg.org/4kcv0umin/2013_08_06_12_31_12.jpg

My rash did itch, especially during the first days, not sure if that helps or not.

Some sources say a Lyme Disease rash may or may not itch, some sources say it never itches.

It appeared about a week ago and wasn't accompanied by fever or other symptoms.

I do have a sore throat, had it for a good while (probably over a week before the rash appeared) but the manifestation was so mild that I didn't pay much attention to it. Still have that sore throat now and maybe a mild case of runny nose that manifests itself once a day.

No fever, no headache.

Could the bullseye rash have been caused by something else?

On the Internet, almost everyone says that if the bullseye rash is present, it tells you that you definitely have Lyme Disease.

What do you think about my rash based on the pics I posted?

Thank you in advance, hopefully your experience will help me.

Posts: 5 | From Not from the US | Registered: Aug 2013  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
steve1906
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In my opinion you have been bitten by a tick, and yes, you have Lyme disease.

To start with please read this>

click on
1- forum home
2- medical questions
3- Dr B's 2008 Guidelines for treatment

Then go to seeking a doctor and ask if anyone knows of LLMD's in your location.

You need to start treatment ASAP!!!!!!!!!

Where are you located?

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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steve1906
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Save the photos, and print them out, it definite proof of Lyme disease - and possible Co infections.

click on
1- forum home
2- medical questions
3- IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON LYME & CO's - posted by - Anna Lee

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Razzle
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Looks like a Bull's Eye to me...

Contact ILADS.org and ask for doctor referrals in your country.

--------------------
-Razzle
Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs.

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gmb
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The rash is very similar to mine. I tested negative though, only one Lyme specific band showed up. I had no other significant symptoms for three years. Then hell broke loose and I was chronic.

Get treated ASAP. I wish I had found this site when I got bit.

gmb

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TF
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There are a few good lyme doctors outside of the U.S. They follow the Burrascano protocol described here:

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

I suggest you read and STUDY this document.

I can give you the name of a good doctor in Germany. Let me know if you want it.

See this quote from page 3 of Burrascano:

"GENERAL PRINCIPLES

In general, you can think of LB as having three categories: acute, early disseminated, and chronic. The sooner treatment is begun after the start of the infection, the higher the success rate. However, since it is easiest to cure early disease, this category of LB must be taken VERY seriously. Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme, with its tremendous problems of morbidity and difficulty with diagnosis and treatment and high cost in every sense of the word. So, while the bulk of this document focuses of the more problematic chronic patient, strong emphasis is also placed on earlier stages of this illness where closest attention and care must be made."

And, Page 7:

"ERYTHEMA MIGRANS

Erythema migrans (EM) is diagnostic of Bb infection, but is present in fewer than half. Even if present, it may go unnoticed by the patient. It is an erythematous, centrifugally expanding lesion that is raised and may be warm. Rarely there is mild stinging or pruritus. The EM rash will begin four days to several weeks after the bite, and may be associated with constitutional symptoms. Multiple lesions are present less than 10% of the time, but do represent disseminated disease. Some lesions have an atypical appearance and skin biopsy specimens may be helpful. When an ulcerated or vesicular center is seen, this may represent a mixed infection, involving other organisms besides B. burgdorferi.

After a tick bite, serologic tests (ELISA. IFA, western blots, etc.) are not expected to become positive until several weeks have passed. Therefore, if EM is present, treatment must begin immediately, and one should not wait for results of Borrelia tests. You should not miss the chance to treat early disease, for this is when the success rate is the highest. Indeed, many knowledgeable clinicians will not even order a Borrelia test in this circumstance."

[I am restoring this post to the way it looked when I posted it. Please do not break up the Burrascano quotes.

If you want to make your own post with the quotes broken up for easier reading for you, feel free to do so, but this is the way the quotes look in the document and this is what the person wants to show to a doctor. Thank you.]

[ 08-06-2013, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: TF ]

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Judie
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My rash itched like crazy and hurt (I also heard they aren't suppose to itch or hurt). One doc thought it was a spider bite.

I was seeing my primary care physician for a physical therapy referral. I happened to show her the rash because I was scared it was infected.

She immediately diagnosed Lyme. A month later I tested positive. You can't test earlier than that because your body can't make enough antibodies to show on the test.

Try to get some doxycycline if you can.

It's great that you were on the ball enough to research this.

I have 2 friends who had a bulls-eye rashes and didn't treat for several months. Their bodies went through hell when Lyme went into full force. It sort of grows slowly at first then goes nuts (you might have flu like symptoms a month or two after infection, then it seems to calm down then comes back really bad).

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Robin123
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You said above that you weren't involved in outdoor activities during traveling.

Bumping up against a tick can be as simple as leaning against a tree where one is present, or brushing against grassblades or edges of bushes where ticks are.

Sometimes pets bring ticks into the home, so that's another way people get bitten, is inside the home.

Another possibility, though more rare, if another kind of bug bit you.

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randibear
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Does it have to expand? Mine didnt. It had an oiley pimply top and boy did it itch. It stayed for about a week or so.

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Kudzuslipper
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it sure does look like a classic EM rash. Do you have a primary care doctor-- you could show pictures to (of yours and of classic EM rashes along with any info) and at least get them to prescribe you 4 weeks of Azythromicin til you can get to a Lyme Literate doctor. The results are so much better if you can get on ABX early. Even explain to the doctor, you would rather take the abx prophylactically. that from what you've read, it's worth it to prevent what could be chronic. and then once you are on abx find an llmd.
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GretaM
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Looks like an EM rash to me. I had one on my wrist. Didn't itch, didn't hurt. I didn't remember the tick either.

Please save your pictures and try to get some abx as soon as possible.

Yes, the EM rash will disappear eventually, without treatment.

This just means that BB has infiltrated other tissue, and is no longer just in your skin or blood.

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Lymetoo
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Definitely find a doctor who will help.

Lyme info:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=088555;p=0

seeking a doctor:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=2;hardset=0;start_point=0;DaysPrune=1000

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Anthropologista
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There may be more species of Borellia where you live than those of B. Burgdorferi (Lyme) + B. Miyamotoi alone. So it may be a "Lyme-like" disease rather than Lyme.

But whichever it is, early treatment for Lyme-like disease is the same as for Lyme. Please do get it treated asap according to the Burrascano treatment guidelines TF posted above.

A few weeks of antibiotics now can save you years of debilitation, pain, and expense.

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notfromtheus
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First of all, thanks a lot for the replies.

Based on my research and on the feedback I received, it ended up being clear to me that what I have is indeed Lyme Disease.

So first thing in the morning, I went to a larger city to ask about the rash. I chose that city because I have more confidence in the ability of the doctors over there to handle this problem.

It turns out that there's actually a study about Lyme Disease going on right now and I was included in that study.

They drew lots and lots of blood (6 little bottles, probably to test whether I already had Lyme Disease, so just in case I didn't have it from this specific bite) and the doctor told me to take doxycyclin 100mg twice/day, once every 12 hours.

So 200mg of doxycyclin daily for 21 days.

Based on your experience, do you think the dosage and the choice of antibiotic is ok?

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steve1906
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Did you read (Dr B's 2008 Guidelines for treatment)- If not I would start there....

Dr. B - http://www.lymenet.org/BurrGuide200810.pdf

Others here will surely recommend dosages for you.

--------------------
Everything I say is just my opinion!

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Lymetoo
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Not enough but a good beginning. It sounds like the Drs know that early testing is inconclusive?

good job on getting help!

Personally, I would want 200mg twice a day for 6-8 wks for a new bite.

www.TreatTheBite.com

--------------------
--Lymetutu--
Opinions, not medical advice!

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Keebler
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-
First, very sorry that you've been side-lined with this and that most doctors are not well enough educated to help. Lyme is a very political matter so you must find a real expert.

Since it's crystal clear that you do have lyme, no, that dose, the prescription length nor the fact that it's alone - is enough.

The good news is that you are treating this early, but the doxy has already created cyst form that requires additional Rx and 21 days is not enough. This could be months (still, it's good that it's found so soon so be glad about that).

Hope you can find a LLMD and be assessed for other infections that go with ticks.

Combination treatment is required even just for lyme. See last link below.

You will not need a test for lyme but should be assessed for other TBD (tick-borne disease). Your symptoms, the bulls eye was your "test" -


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=015508;p=0

Diagnosing Lyme Disease (&/or whatever else is going on)

Other tick-borne infections and other chronic stealth infections - as well as certain conditions that can hold us back - are discussed here.


http://www.anapsid.org/lyme/lymeseroneg.html

Reasons for False Negative (Seronegative) Test Results in Lyme Disease


http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/miscellaneous/Dx%20and%20tx%20lyme%20and%20co.pdf

Public Health Alert (PHA) is a newspaper committed to researching and investigating Lyme Disease and other chronic illnesses

Laboratory Tests and Diagnosis for Lyme Disease and Co-infections - June 2013

- by Armin Schwarzbach, M.D., Ph.D. - Five Pages


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=013239;p=0

What is a LLMD? LL ND? What is ILADS?

WHY you need an ILADS "educated" or "minded" Lyme Literate doctor (whether MD or ND, or both) - starting with assessment / evaluation.

Medical "models" explained here, as to differences in the ISDA & ILADS models of assessment & treatment - and exactly why it is so very important to know the differences.
-

How just doxycycline (or other antibiotics, alone) can cause chronic lyme:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=120369;p=0

Topic: replication within cystic forms of lyme
-

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Keebler
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-
Very important for many reasons:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030792;p=0

LIVER & KIDNEY SUPPORT & and several HERXHEIMER support links, too.


PROBIOTICS are also required to help prevent / offset a systemic candida infection that can occur from antibiotics.

OLE or BERBERINE also very helpful with that.

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=030549;p=0

OLIVE LEAF EXTRACT - LINKS


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=121034;p=0

BERBERINE – LINKS SET


TIMING

Generally (your LLMD can advise on exceptions), time a couple hours apart by both clock directions:

Rx

Probiotics

Supplements (whether vitamin/mineral or herbal)
-

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Keebler
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-
I hope you've been instructed to avoid all sun exposure, even "bounced" sun or through a car window. Hands and ears can get burned in the car. White cotton gloves can be found at pharmacy. Called "treatment gloves" for skin lotions during sleep - but they can sure help against doxy burn in the car.

Cover ears, too.

Doxy can cause chemical burns from any sun exposure. Minocycline is most often used during summer for that reason. But you are now on doxy, and even if you switch, for many weeks, you can still be very sensitive to sun.

And:

avoid calcium, magnesium for a couple hours both directions of the clock as those can prevent doxy from it's best effect.

keep your torso upright for an hour after taking doxy

take with food (just not dairy)
-

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Keebler
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-
http://breakingnews.ewg.org/2013sunscreen/

Environmental Working Group

SAFE SUNSCREEN GUIDE - Summer 2013

Many links here.
-

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jackie81
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I would personally want double that dose and for at least 6 weeks!
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'Kete-tracker
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Looks like the classic 'erythema migrans' !
BUT, to answer your question correctly... NO.

Any of a group of infections can cause a bulls-eye, but it's most often a spirochette, like Borrelia Burgdorferi (the causitive agent of Lyme disease).

But other spirochetal illnesses, like S.T.A.R.I., which is usually en****ered in the south of the USA, also can cause such a bulls-eye rash.

That disease seems to be tackled successfully by the immune system as no symptoms result, or it's possible the spirochete [likely] involved doesn't cause any 'problems'... a well-behaved spirochette, you might say, like can be found in the bacterial flora of the mouth.

In ANY event, it is not only wise but *imperative* you see an experienced doc ASAP & get on a good dosing of something like doxycycline *immediately*...
& *stay* on it for 4 weeks -beyond- that rash fading out (or 4 weeks any "symptoms" you encounter) as the best time to squash anything serious out, for Good, is RIGHT NOW!

And this rash may just BE "Lyme". [Wink]

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'Kete-tracker
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encountered
(hmmm... That was ****odd***!)

Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
'Kete-tracker
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21 days?
Go back & insist on 2 more weeks.
But, as you're now part of a study, they may want you to be on a controlled specific dose. {sigh}

I say scr#w the study & get more than 21 days.
5 to 6 weeks is good.

Amoxicillun is also effective for the Lyme, though it doesn't hit some of the potental "co-infections" you MIGHT have caught, like Ehrlichia.

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notfromtheus
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After 2 weeks, I went for another round of tests (they drew 8 small bottles of blood... yikes) and have the results from the first round of tests.

They are kind of confusing.

They performed the ELISA test as well as the Western Blot.

With the ELISA test, IgG as well as IgM came back negative.

But with the Western Blot, IgG came back positive and IgM came back negative.

Based on my understanding, a positive IgG means that in the past, I was exposed to Lyme.

And a negative IgM means that according to the Western Blot test, I do not have an active infection (either that or I have another Lyme infection, aside from the one or ones indicated by the positive IgG reading, but no antibodies are showing for it yet given the fact that it's recent).

There are a few things I am not certain of:

1) Is the Western Blot conclusive? Based on what I read, the general recommendation is that if the ELISA test is negative, a Western Blot should not be performed. That leads me to believe that the Western Blot is more of a way to check whether or not the ELISA test gave a false positive.

But in my case, the exact opposite happened. The ELISA came back negative, yet the Western Blot test indicated that IgG came back positive.

2) Could I have been exposed to Lyme in the past without having symptoms? If the IgG reading of the Western Blot is accurate, that seems to be the conclusion. The weird thing is I don't recall any Lyme symptoms, the rash is basically the only Lyme symptom I ever had.

3) Do these test results mean that I should receive more aggressive treatment?

4) Assuming that I have indeed been exposed to Lyme in the past, is it still in my body or is it possible that my immune system got rid of it back then without antibiotics?

Sorry for all these questions and thanks again for everything!

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TF
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From Burrascano Guidelines:

"After a tick bite, serologic tests (ELISA. IFA, western blots, etc.) are not expected to become positive until several weeks have passed. Therefore, if EM is present, treatment must begin immediately, and one should not wait for results of Borrelia tests. You should not miss the chance to treat early disease, for this is when the success rate is the highest. Indeed, many knowledgeable clinicians will not even order a Borrelia test in this circumstance.

DIAGNOSING LATER DISEASE

When reactive, serologies indicate exposure only and do not directly indicate whether the spirochete is now currently present. Because Bb serologies often give inconsistent results, test at well-known reference laboratories. The suggestion that two-tiered testing, utilizing an ELISA as a screening tool, followed, if positive, by a confirmatory western blot, is illogical in this illness. The ELISA is not sensitive enough to serve as an adequate screen, and there are many patients with Lyme who test negative by ELISA yet have fully diagnostic western blots. I therefore recommend against using the ELISA. Order IgM and IgG western blots- but be aware that in late disease there may be repeatedly peaking IgM's and therefore a reactive IgM may not differentiate early from late disease, but it does suggest an active infection. When late cases of LB are seronegative, 36% will transiently become seropositive at the completion of successful therapy. In chronic Lyme Borreliosis, the CD-57 count is both useful and important (see below).

Western blots are reported by showing which bands are reactive. 41KD bands appear the earliest but can cross react with other spirochetes. The 18KD, 23-25KD (Osp C), 31KD (Osp A), 34KD (Osp B), 37KD, 39KD, 83KD and the 93KD bands are the species-specific ones, but appear later or may not appear at all. You should see at least the 41KD and one of the specific bands. 55KD, 60KD, 66KD, and 73KD are nonspecific and nondiagnostic." (page 7)

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

Notice that Burrascano says the Elisa is a junk test. Forget it. You tested exactly like Burrascano said many lyme patients do--negative on junk Elisa and positive on Western Blot.

When you are dealing with amateurs, they give you junk lyme tests and treatment.

Get a copy of your test results. See exactly what bands are positive. It doesn't matter if it is IgG or IgM. Look at all the positive bands together.

Here is a post by a lyme doctor explaining the Western Blot:

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/42077

Even if you don't like reading medical stuff, it really is a necessity with this particular disease that you become an educated patient. Then, you can make up your own mind about what should be done for your health.

If lyme were not in the midst of a medical controversy, you wouldn't have to educate yourself. But, since it is, you really MUST learn about these things to decide what to believe and what to do.

So, to conclude, lyme literate doctors like Burrascano and others would say that you have lyme disease. I agree.

I suggest that every person with lyme get the absolute best lyme doctor they can afford and get treatment that lines up with the Burrascano Guidelines. Being part of a study is definitely not the way to get the best lyme treatment. The treatment you are currently on does not line up with Burrascano. You need high dose combinations of antibiotics to get rid of lyme. You are just on low-dose doxy right now. That is the standard treatment that doctors give patients when they do not know anything about lyme disease.

That is the treatment my regular doctor gave me when I first tested positive. I had to find a great lyme doctor who followed Burrascano to get rid of my long-standing lyme disease. I have seen many, many people cured of lyme by going to a doctor who followed Burrascano.

To see the doxy dosages he recommends, just pull up his Guidelines on your screen. Then hit Control+f to bring up the "find" box. Type in the word "doxy" and the cursor will jump to every occurrence of the word in the docuement. This way, you can read everything Burrascano says about it. Do the same with "Elisa," "western" and any other word you want to look up.

Tell us your location and we can tell you if we know any good lyme doctors there.

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Catgirl
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You might want to get started on herbs.

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Prevention-Borreliosis-Coinfections/dp/0970869630/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377109103&sr=8-1&keywords=healing+lyme

http://www.amazon.com/Herbal-Antibiotics-2nd-Edition-Drug-resistant/dp/1603429875/ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.com/Healing-Lyme-Disease-Coinfections-Complementary/dp/1620550083/ref=pd_sim_b_1

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--Keep an open mind about everything. Also, remember to visit ACTIVISM (we can change things together).

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notfromtheus
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Fortunately, I have a copy of my test results. Will try to research extensively, hopefully you will be able to help with some guidance.

Here are the results, I uploaded them:

http://s23.postimg.org/i531bzxnv/western.png

The IgM results at the top of the image and the IgG results are at the bottom of the image. The text is in Romanian (I'm from Romania) but only 4 phrases needed to be translated (I translated them, the blue text was added by me) and the rest is just medical terminology which is universal (I hope).

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'Kete-tracker
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I agree with TF. You need a Lyme doc that follows the ILADS approach [& treats along the lines of Dr B's guidelines]. Being part of a study means you're under the care of a group that are "learning" about Lyme. Not the best place to be.

100mg bid of doxy is barely sufficient for early stage Lyme... Good if you're, say, a short, plump 100# woman... B-A-D if you're built like Kareem Abdul Jabbar [star basketball player] as the "doxy" tends to concentrate in the skin, so a bigger body surface area means you need more doxycycline for the same abx tissue concentration.

You mentioned, "With the ELISA test, IgG as well as IgM came back negative."

Actually, the IgM & IgG are the components of the Western blots by definition.
The first 'tier' of the ELISA test is the Lyme titer [pronounced "tighter"], which is considered positive if greater than 1, negative if less & 'equivocal' [luv that term... Not] if exactly 1.

Most labs only run the blots if the titer is 1 or more... a big mistake as there are many who will test less than 1 & yet be positive on the Western blots, especially the IgG... even "CDC positive"!
That's why all knowledgable docs ask that the blots be run regardless if the titer results.

Could you have been exposed to [or more accurately, "innoculated with"] B.Burgdorferi in the past & not recall any [noticeable] symptoms?
Most emphatically, YES!

It's possible, for example, that a nymph tick got onto you (& bit in) that wasn't particularily 'sick' (low 'kete count') and you had some B.B. sirochetes get into you years ago that were never really able to establish their numbers to cause noticeable symptoms.

It's still unknown if such a small invasion leaves permanent B.B. DNA in the host. We'll probably never know. But it can trigger the creation of Lyme antibodies, which after a few months "convert" from IgM to IgG, & can be detectable for Many months... even years afterwards.

Most Certainly you should seek more aggressive treatment.
You can post your location here, as TF suggested, &/or in the Seeking a Doctor section of this wesite. Good Luck!

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TF
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You have 5 positives and 4 weak positives, so that looks like a very positive test.

I think your lab/country uses different numbers for the bands, so this is difficult to interpret for you.

I feel sure of these 2:

flagella (meaning "tail") is band 41 in the U.S. Your test shows this as "flagelin"

OspC is band 23-25

You have positives on both of these which alone is enough for a lyme diagnosis.

The other positive and weak positive bands I cannot be sure of. So, I don't know what they equate to here in the U.S. They may be very important positives. I just can't tell.

Here is a website I found that describes your test:

http://www.euroimmun.ch/fileadmin/user_upload_schweiz/borrelia_euroline_flyer_maerz_08.pdf

Based on what it says, you have borellia garinii since you got a positive on that strain of lyme.

It is also saying that 34, 53, 03, and 39 are all significant. You are positive on all 4 of these bands.

I hope the clinic can explain the test to you. Do they consider it a positive test? They should know which bands are important and which aren't.

I know of a good lyme treatment center in southern Germany, if you are interested. Let me know.

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notfromtheus
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Unfortunately, I don't think there are clinics that specialize in Lyme Disease nearby. Germany would be an option but it's very far away and the best solution would probably be asking my doctor for a dose increase.

I forgot to ask, how long did it take for the Lyme rash to go away in your case?

In my case, I've been on antibiotics for 2 weeks and 2 days but it hasn't gone away completely. Compared to how it was, it's a huge improvement but if you look hard enough, you can still see a vague bullseye. In the very center, a crust was formed and while I can conclude that the rash is almost gone, it's not 100% gone yet.

Is the time it takes for the rash to completely disappear relevant for my Lyme diagnosis and treatment or is it something more related to my skin than to Lyme Disease at this point?

I asked my doctor how long it took for the rash to go away with other patients and she said that in some case, it resolved very fast and in other cases, it took several days.

What do you think about the fact that my rash hasn't disappeared 100% yet after 2 weeks and 2 days of antibiotics? Don't get me wrong, it's almost gone but not 100% gone.

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GretaM
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In my very humble and inexperienced opinion, your rash hasn't gone away because your abx dose isn't high enough and you need a cyst buster like flagyl added.
The spirochetes are likely either converting into cyst form, or "drilling" their way into your other tissues.

The rash is not indicative of the progress of the infection... With only 200 mg doxy per day...when your rash goes away completely, it will likely be because the spirochetes are somewhere else in your body, or are in cyst form until your abx stop.

Is there any way you can get tinidazole or flagyl from your doc?

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GretaM
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I forgot to add that lyme spirochetes are such a slow growing bacteria.

They complete their growth cycle roughly every 30 days.

That is why abx is needed for 6 weeks or longer...to treat during the entire growth cycle.

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TF
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You said:

"Unfortunately, I don't think there are clinics that specialize in Lyme Disease nearby. Germany would be an option but it's very far away and the best solution would probably be asking my doctor for a dose increase."

Unfortunately, getting good lyme treatment that gets rid of this disease for you is not as easy as asking your present doctor for a dose increase.

Lyme is extremely complicated to treat. Each case is different. So, you really need a doctor who is expert at lyme treatment to have the best chance of getting rid of this now.

See this quote from page 3 of Burrascano:

"However, since it is easiest to cure early disease, this category of LB must be taken VERY seriously. Undertreated infections will inevitably resurface, usually as chronic Lyme, with its tremendous problems of morbidity and difficulty with diagnosis and treatment and high cost in every sense of the word. So, while the bulk of this document focuses of the more problematic chronic patient, strong emphasis is also placed on earlier stages of this illness where closest attention and care must be made."

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

See where he says that undertreated lyme will INEVITABLY resurface.

Considering this, you may want the info on the lyme treatment center in Germany. Perhaps if you called them, they would be able to direct you to a good doctor much closer to you or even in your own country.

There was a lyme conference in Germany and many doctors attended it. The German clinic likely kept some record of the attendees and could use this to help you.

I am so sorry to tell you that it is best if you treat this very seriously right now. If you don't, then you will possibly have a worse problem later when the lyme resurfaces--perhaps once you are stressed by an illness, a surgery, pregnancy, etc.

Regarding the rash, I had lyme for many years before I was diagnosed. It was my third lyme doctor who finally cured me.

A few years after I finished my lyme treatment, I was bitten again and got a large red rash on my arm at the site of the bite. I went back to my lyme doctor and he put me on the Burrascano recommended dosages of medicine. So, I was on good treatment within a week of the bite.

My doctor also gave me medicine for babesiosis and bartonella at the same time.

My rash lasted about a month. The tiny red spot where I was actually bitten lasted at least 2 months or more. My doctor said that it could easily last 3 months since that is the location where the diseases invaded the body.

So, I can tell you that a lyme rash can easily last a month. They can also disappear in a few days. I don't believe anybody knows the significance of how long the rash lasts. I don't think it has anything to do with your skin. So, I don't think you should focus on the rash at all. I think your focus ought to be on finding out if there is any top notch lyme doctor nearby or even far away that you would be able to see.

I suggest you spend a lot of time researching this. The LymeNetEurope site may be able to give you names of doctors. It is here:

http://www.lymeneteurope.org/

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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