Topic: Experts besides Buhner that say no to long term Artemisinin?
mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
I've been trying to research this and so far have only found Buhner that objects to long term Artemisinin.
It seems to be very effective for me (It took me many months to get up to the full dose of 300mg 2 x per day pulsing 5 days on two days off). I've been on it for about 12 months.
I'm also on Zith (and Septra) and working my way up to full dose of Malarone.
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- The thing about any particular ND or herbalist suggesting this or that -- or NOT this or that is that they look at their overall body of work, collection of herbs and how they all work together.
It may be that there is nothing at all wrong with something they omit or even suggest not incorporating into their protocol, it's just that it may not work as well with what's they've got -- or as well for as many people.
You might post a question at his web site and ask WHY he suggests no long term use of this - after first searching if he already answered that in his books or on his site.
Two main major reason for avoiding long term anything is usually about resistance (or maybe effect on the liver).
Artemisinin does stress the liver's detox pathway, Cytochrome P-450. With lyme, that is already stressed. So any Rx or supplement that stresses it may not be best for someone with lyme (or any kind of porphyria concerns) -- or until specific liver support is incorporated.
As you are not on his protocol, and doing more of an Rx based protocol, I would not be concerned that something outside of the range of his protocol is working well for you -- by continuing to follow your body, you won't be "messing up" anything about his protocol because it does not apply in this case.
Everyone, really, pretty much has to "mix & match" for what might work for them. It helps to read what various LL herbalist / ND authors have to say and consider any unique properties that might need some tweaking - as you and your LL doctors work to make up YOUR protocols.
But there are various things to consider. Glad it is working for you.
You may already have Zhang's book but, if not, you would probably appreciate the detail about artemisinin in that:
link to come -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Now, you say you tolerate artemisinin well (so just be mindful of possible resistance. Varying your babesia protocol will help even with the change of one herb or Rx every 3 weeks - but be sure you have LL guidance).
I did not tolerate artemisinin very well (likely due to porphyria issues). I did so much better incorporating this. You might just want to keep this in mind if / when you switch around protocol to avoid resistance:
CRYPTOLEPIS sanguinolenta -
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
When I saw Dr. S in SF he told me not to bother continuing artemisinin because I would have built resistance to it. He is an expert I guess. He did not think any of the herbs did much good.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
Mojo,
I agree with Keebler. If it working for you then do it.
Dr. Zhang has been using it. I don't know how he prescribes it. He would probably be best to consult.
Also, if your LLMD is working with you and approves the artemisinin, then they are probably checking you very carefully for any problems.
posted
Another key point to keep in mind. Buhner feels that babesia is the easiest coinfection to treat and that it can be cured in 30 days. Obviously, for many people that is not true. I respect his work, but he is not a prescribing herbalist seeing patients on a daily basis -- but a researcher.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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mojo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9309
posted
Thanks for all the input everyone.
I do have Zhang's book (somewhere!) and my sister has Buhner's.
I think I'll stick with the Artemisinin at least until I'm up to full dose of Malarone then maybe switch something for it.
I appreciate the feedback - it's been very helpful.
Posts: 1761 | From USA | Registered: May 2006
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Rivendell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19922
posted
Judie,
Buhner only suggests astragalus for the very early stages of lyme. He says not to use it in late stage lyme because it can cause autoimmune problems.
Also, he is in the process of writing an entire book on Babesia, which should be out next year, so I've heard.
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